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[hokahey]

There's just nothing outstanding in story, plot or characters in this show. It's pretty by the books for this framework of a snowball going downhill and getting bigger. The mistaken identities, the confusion, the happenstance etc that feeds itself and reeking havoc. Not as much characters as just cues to stand on their mark. All peppered with people making stupid decisions.

Peggy is just awful. I get the gesture, but you don't sell the car on your own wo saying anything to Edd and for half the price. Just stop. Go away. I see no point to try and 'get' her. She's just there to enable the shenanigans.

Scene with Milligan and Simone was too on the nose, digesting it far too much to the audience. We didn't need them to spell it out to know that Milligan kept her close to act as a 'spy'. Not giving the viewers credit. Now, from Simone's side, i don't follow her. Sure, she hates her dad and it's established he's an awful person. Is that enough for her to betray her whole family knowing she would sign their death with this co-operation?

I also must question Dodd's decision not to have anyone sent to look out for her knowing every Herhart is now a target. He was snoopy about what's she's doing with herself before the 'war' started and now it's no-brainer to send an armed man to follow her to make sure she's protected.
Dodd makes another stupid decision sending his cripple nephew into the fray. You knew he would screw up. The cripple nephew was written for exactly that purpose, that what i mean with characters being cues and marks. You send him out, he fucks up and this snowball continues to roll and amass. To be fair to Dodd, he said he wanted the nephew to pull the trigger. I'm sure he imagined the hitman doing all the work and just handing him the gun to finish Ed off, 'cause that's how i interpreted his request as well. But of course, the nephew was given the lead (twice!) so he could fuck up twice and let the ride continue.

Oh my god I remember you from the Boardwalk Empire theads. Do you just get off on shitting on great television?

 

[Grinchy]

Oh my god I remember you from the Boardwalk Empire theads. Do you just get off on shitting on great television?

Salty is one of the best parts of good show threads.

I can't confirm it, but I bet he has short, positive posts about bad shows.

 

[Opto]

The Blomquists are both not-great people that have failed to communicate to each other.

 

[Helmholtz]

Finally caught up. Man, this show is incredible. I liked Season 1, but I'm liking this season even more. Every scene is just so tense.

 

[Moff]

I like Peggy, she is my favourite character, I am rooting for her.

And while I think this season is better than the first overall, my guess is that in the end it will definitely lack memorabilty. Billy Bob Thornton made the first season a lot more memorable, which is why I think season 1 will be remembered more fondly generally.

 

[Saty]

It's actually easy to "get her." 1. She's in a marriage that she really doesn't want to be in and longs to be elsewhere doing other things. 2. She doesn't want to start a family with her husband. 3. She has psychological issues because for one thing, we know she's a hoarder with a little bit of kleptomania thrown in. This is why her selling the car, while stupid, makes sense in her world. After all, she already drove home with a guy in her windshield and took money to pay for a course that she knew her husband didn't approve of.

Then just leave? Or say those things outright to Ed?
You're basically excusing the character for being established as doing stupid stuff since her first moment (driving Rye home, which nothing you said makes me 'get' why Peggy did that). I don't know what they are trying to do with her character or what reaction they think her depiction will illicit from viewers. Myself, i don't care about her and look at her as a plot prop more than anything else.

We already knew why he was with her from the previous episode when he learned of Otto's doctor visit from her, not this scene. This scene was to threaten her but still keep her around cause she may still be of use. The scene was for effect and tension, not for anything to be spelled out for us .

Which is why having Milligan go over their 'arrangement' again felt to me as they are trying to recap information we already know. The scene could have been written in a more subtle\nuanced way rather than for Mike to go 'we aren't romeo and juliet, here's why i give a fuck about you, here's what you get out of it, now get me the inside intel or you're dead.
And it's still a stretch for Simone to sign-up to whatever Mike is selling to 'get back' at her dad when she's putting the entire family on the line.

Dodd's an egotistical, hot head, which makes him sloppy.

Sure, and Peggy has her reasons for doing those silly stuff. And there's a reason why the Sheriff was being stupid in his analysis of the crime scene, and there's a reason why Dodd sends his handicapped nephew. There's a reason why Simone is willing to risk her entire family. It's just nothing is convincing or credible. Props hitting their marks.
We need a Gerhadt to be sleeping with the enemy, figuratively and literally. We need someone to start the snowball rolling with Peggy. We need the Sheriff to not do proper job so evidence can be buried and let the bad guys catch up. We seemingly need Peggy & Edd to play a part (the Sioux Falls thing) so let's send the cripple on his first job do that most important hit because he will fail. Which again, i give Dodd slack for. Obviously he sends him out because he's prideful but i tend to think he just wanted the hitman to do the heavy lifting and just have the nephew pull the trigger.

There's enough to like in Fargo, but most of it isn't for the substance, plotting or characters.

Oh my god I remember you from the Boardwalk Empire theads. Do you just get off on shitting on great television?

Only when i think it's really not great at all and exhibits a lot to criticize. (Also, i recall most being down on BE's finale while i was pretty OK with it).
I was perplexed by the reception S1 of Fargo got, i thought it was pretty bad. All said and done, S2 is definitely an improvement in my eyes. You don't see me 'shitting' on The Knick and definitely not on The Americans.

 

[Walpurgis]

Then just leave? Or say those things outright to Ed?
You're basically excusing the character for being established as doing stupid stuff since her first moment (driving Rye home, which nothing you said makes me 'get' why Peggy did that). I don't know what they are trying to do with her character or what reaction they think her depiction will illicit from viewers. Myself, i don't care about her and look at her as a plot prop more than anything else.

From her perspective, she just killed a man when she hit Rye. She just wanted to cover it up. Sure, she could have called the police and she likely wouldn't have gotten into any trouble but she's kind of insane.

 

[Saty]

I think the 'official' response from the writers\actress was that she didn't know if to go to the police or the hospital so she went home to decide there but ultimately did nothing. Sure, i can accept she did it because she's insane but that just makes me shrug my shoulders and look at her as a plot device.

 

[SummitAve]

She made this crazy all of a sudden decision that makes no sense because this is Fargo, and the same thing happened in the movie and first season. The sudden turn of seemingly normal people with otherwise good intentions is how tension gets set in the Fargo universe. You're not supposed to get so hung up on it.

 

[Gozer the Gozerian]

I think the 'official' response from the writers\actress was that she didn't know if to go to the police or the hospital so she went home to decide there but ultimately did nothing. Sure, i can accept she did it because she's insane but that just makes me shrug my shoulders and look at her as a plot device.

I feel like you're too caught up on the idea that people will always assess a situation logically and rationally. One of the major running themes in Fargo has been a rush of violence that was completely pointless and avoidable, based off of some person making a boneheaded move and letting it escalate. Take Jerry Lundegaard's convoluted kidnapper hiring scheme and his complete fumbling of it after things went south.

 

[Linius]

Aw geez, we're back on the Peggy hitting Rye discussion. Though we got passed that by now.

 

[Lunar FC]

Dude thinks the first season of a show was bad and then comes back for the second. Hah, some people man. They just crave being different so much.

 

[Turin]

Peggy might end up being a more tragic character than Lester. She's hopelessly foolish.

What makes it good is that we don't have to sit through 8 seasons of it.

Anthology series' ftw.

 

[ivysaur12]

Oh jeez, the premiere was so good. I love that its anthology show set in the same world as season 1. It makes it feel more cohesive, you know? I don't know if it quite as the umph that the premiere of season 1 had with Malvo, but I'm so down so far -- apologies for posting about it late, I'm binging this weekend.

 

[Redd]

Oh jeez, the premiere was so good. I love that its anthology show set in the same world as season 1. It makes it feel more cohesive, you know? I don't know if it quite as the umph that the premiere of season 1 had with Malvo, but I'm so down so far -- apologies for posting about it late, I'm binging this weekend.

You're in for a treat.

 

[Speevy]

I have to wonder who is going to be the next member of the Gerhardt clan to take a bullet.

It obviously isn't Dodd, since he's been developed as too strong a character to meet his end before the season finale.

I'm thinking Bear dies in one of the next two episodes.

 

[ivysaur12]

You're in for a treat.

I know! I'm also sick of having to sit out of conversations at work for 10 minutes every Tuesday. I was going to wait until the season was over and save it for Christmas, but that went out the window.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

I have to wonder who is going to be the next member of the Gerhardt clan to take a bullet.

It obviously isn't Dodd, since he's been developed as too strong a character to meet his end before the season finale.

I'm thinking Bear dies in one of the next two episodes.

I'm going to guess his niece tells Kansas City that they are going to the hospital. Bear will get shot.

 

[Socreges]

Plemons was also in Olive Kitteridge, albeit very briefly. Played a quiet, blank-faced guy, as ever... though that guy grew up to be the opposite of Ed.

Salty is one of the best parts of good show threads.

I can't confirm it, but I bet he has short, positive posts about bad shows.

Made me laugh.

His observations always seem to be the same contrivance and can't possibly be naturally occurring. Kind of fascinating to read with that in mind - I could actually see the Coen brothers creating a character like Saty!

 

[Saty]

She made this crazy all of a sudden decision that makes no sense because this is Fargo, and the same thing happened in the movie and first season. The sudden turn of seemingly normal people with otherwise good intentions is how tension gets set in the Fargo universe. You're not supposed to get so hung up on it.

Haven't watched the movie. The problem with S1 is that those kind of scenes happened left and right and were 'in your face'. Crazy sudden decisions don't explain how 2 FBI agents who sit in car next to a building don't hear the massacre that Malvo is making, and various other examples that i've forgotten.

Dude thinks the first season of a show was bad and then comes back for the second. Hah, some people man. They just crave being different so much.

Because if in the future there was a topic that discusses Fargo in general, other posters will always detract or ignore criticism by people who only watched the first season, saying they need to watch it all and it gets better and so forth.
More importantly, i tend to give shows the chance to show improvement and it makes much more sense to do so for anthology series.

And as i said, S2 is proving to be much better than the first. I just don't agree with the degree of acclaim being thrown at it.

 

[dead souls]

You're in for a treat.

Truly.

 

[Spectral Glider]

Then just leave? Or say those things outright to Ed?
You're basically excusing the character for being established as doing stupid stuff since her first moment (driving Rye home, which nothing you said makes me 'get' why Peggy did that). I don't know what they are trying to do with her character or what reaction they think her depiction will illicit from viewers. Myself, i don't care about her and look at her as a plot prop more than anything else.

Yeah, why don't unhappy women just up and leave? I mean, they all do that, don't they? Who needs marriage counselors anyway? And, I'm not excusing the character of anything, just stating that I don't see her selling the car as anything out of the ordinary for her. Besides, your "argument" could be applied to any general character in any general story. "Well, why is he doing illegal activities, just because he's a criminal? What a simple plot device!"

Which is why having Milligan go over their 'arrangement' again felt to me as they are trying to recap information we already know. The scene could have been written in a more subtle\nuanced way rather than for Mike to go 'we aren't romeo and juliet, here's why i give a fuck about you, here's what you get out of it, now get me the inside intel or you're dead.
And it's still a stretch for Simone to sign-up to whatever Mike is selling to 'get back' at her dad when she's putting the entire family on the line.

Nope, you originally said the scene was there to explain to us because they figured we were too stupid to figure it out. Now, you're selling it short as a recap. It can't really be both. The scene is there to advance the story between the two characters, nothing more, nothing less. After the hunting ambush, we needed to see where that relationship goes. And we saw it. And why is it a stretch for her? We know her father is physically and emotionally abusive to her. And, perhaps worse (don't forget the line about beating her getting him hard.) And, we know she's getting drugs from Mike along with the sex. So she has addictive, selfish qualities.

Sure, and Peggy has her reasons for doing those silly stuff. And there's a reason why the Sheriff was being stupid in his analysis of the crime scene, and there's a reason why Dodd sends his handicapped nephew. There's a reason why Simone is willing to risk her entire family. It's just nothing is convincing or credible. Props hitting their marks.
We need a Gerhadt to be sleeping with the enemy, figuratively and literally. We need someone to start the snowball rolling with Peggy. We need the Sheriff to not do proper job so evidence can be buried and let the bad guys catch up. We seemingly need Peggy & Edd to play a part (the Sioux Falls thing) so let's send the cripple on his first job do that most important hit because he will fail. Which again, i give Dodd slack for. Obviously he sends him out because he's prideful but i tend to think he just wanted the hitman to do the heavy lifting and just have the nephew pull the trigger.

And, as I previously stated, that's a total overall generalization and simplification that can be applied to any and all story telling medium. "How convenient that something happened because something else happened!"

 

[poppabk]

Haven't watched the movie. The problem with S1 is that those kind of scenes happened left and right and were 'in your face'. Crazy sudden decisions don't explain how 2 FBI agents who sit in car next to a building don't hear the massacre that Malvo is making, and various other examples that i've forgotten.

I hate to take the bait, but how is that a problem. From the outset the first season established a surreal tone, especially where Malvo was concerned. They were 'in your face' because that was the tone of the show. That is part of the reason why I find the second season less enjoyable. Apart from the UFO stuff its just a crime thriller, albeit an excellent one.

 

[Speevy]

Haven't watched the movie..

This is one of the greatest comedy films ever created. It is worthy of being considered an American film classic.

Amazon has it for 4 bucks.


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0030MDS36/?tag=neogaf0e-20


Go nuts.

 

[Saty]

Yeah, why don't unhappy women just up and leave? I mean, they all do that, don't they? Who needs marriage counselors anyway? And, I'm not excusing the character of anything, just stating that I don't see her selling the car as anything out of the ordinary for her. Besides, your "argument" could be applied to any general character in any general story. "Well, why is he doing illegal activities, just because he's a criminal? What a simple plot device!"

Peggy is unhappy but she does nothing to deal with it. She doesn't talk with Ed and opens up how she really feels, she's lying to him about trying to get pregnant, she doesn't suggest seeing a counselors. The only way what she feels surfaces up is when she decides on her own to sign-up for the course and when she on her own decides to sell the car for a lot less than its worth. So you can't blame me for not liking Peggy or lending her my shoulder. She was about to use the situation she herself brought on herself and Ed to go to where she want to be, to L.A - another desire she mostly keeps to herself.

Nope, you originally said the scene was there to explain to us because they figured we were too stupid to figure it out. Now, you're selling it short as a recap. It can't really be both. The scene is there to advance the story between the two characters, nothing more, nothing less. After the hunting ambush, we needed to see where that relationship goes. And we saw it. And why is it a stretch for her? We know her father is physically and emotionally abusive to her. And, perhaps worse (don't forget the line about beating her getting him hard.) And, we know she's getting drugs from Mike along with the sex. So she has addictive, selfish qualities.

By way of it being a recap it bring viewers up to speed in case they forgot the previous scene between or didn't assign to it the fullest meaning.
I disagree we 'needed' to see where that relationship goes. Simone is his only source for inside information, it's not like he's going to kill her. So he gets blunt and tells it like it it with no pretense or beating around the bush.

It's a stretch because her actions are putting into danger every single member of her family and not just the single one she hates. So i can't at this point reconcile her choice with her characterization up to now even with those addictive\selfish qualities.

And, as I previously stated, that's a total overall generalization and simplification that can be applied to any and all story telling medium. "How convenient that something happened because something else happened!"

At some point it's just too mach for me to swat it away. There are at least 3 instances of awfully questionable and suspect behaviors and decisions that funnel the plot the way it is.

I hate to take the bait, but how is that a problem. From the outset the first season established a surreal tone, especially where Malvo was concerned. They were 'in your face' because that was the tone of the show. That is part of the reason why I find the second season less enjoyable. Apart from the UFO stuff its just a crime thriller, albeit an excellent one.

The first two episodes established that tone but they kept banging our heads with that over and over. This insistence worked for the detriment of the first season.

This is one of the greatest comedy films ever created. It is worthy of being considered an American film classic.

Amazon has it for 4 bucks.

I'm in no rush.

 

[Speevy]

I'm in no rush.

 

[Coffee Dog]

Peggy is unhappy but she does nothing to deal with it. She doesn't talk with Ed and opens up how she really feels, she's lying to him about trying to get pregnant, she doesn't suggest seeing a counselors. The only way what she feels surfaces up is when she decides on her own to sign-up for the course and when she on her own decides to sell the car for a lot less than its worth. So you can't blame me for not liking Peggy or lending her my shoulder. She was about to use the situation she herself brought on herself and Ed to go to where she want to be, to L.A - another desire she mostly keeps to herself.

That is what makes her an interesting character. Are you saying you want her to be less complicated and believable?

By way of it being a recap it bring viewers up to speed in case they forgot the previous scene between or didn't assign to it the fullest meaning.
I disagree we 'needed' to see where that relationship goes. Simone is his only source for inside information, it's not like he's going to kill her. So he gets blunt and tells it like it it with no pretense or beating around the bush.

Mike is a central character and his reaction to the killing, as well as Kansas City's view of the aftermath, are integral to the plot going forward. This scene is also used to advance Simone's arc as well. It's a very useful scene that is entertaining through the use of Mike's intimidating prescense.

It's a stretch because her actions are putting into danger every single member of her family and not just the single one she hates. So i can't at this point reconcile her choice with her characterization up to now even with those addictiveselfish qualities.

She got mindfucked and intimidated by Mike. She's afraid for her life.

At some point it's just too mach for me to swat it away. There are at least 3 instances of awfully questionable and suspect behaviors and decisions that funnel the plot the way it is.

Yes, there are questionable and suspect decisions. These people are cowards, they are manipulators, they are flawed.

Why are you watching a "true crime" story if you don't agree with believable characters?

 

[Niraj]

Finally got around to catching up, hell of an episode. The opening was crazy, so was the scene in the butcher shop. Hell, everything else was great too. Really looking forward to the next one. At least now the wait isn't too long

 

[Spectral Glider]

Peggy is unhappy but she does nothing to deal with it. She doesn't talk with Ed and opens up how she really feels, she's lying to him about trying to get pregnant, she doesn't suggest seeing a counselors. The only way what she feels surfaces up is when she decides on her own to sign-up for the course and when she on her own decides to sell the car for a lot less than its worth. So you can't blame me for not liking Peggy or lending her my shoulder. She was about to use the situation she herself brought on herself and Ed to go to where she want to be, to L.A - another desire she mostly keeps to herself.

I never blamed you for not liking her, so not sure where that comes from. Again, all I said was that I understood her actions given what we do know about her character. Understanding doesn't necessitate approval.

By way of it being a recap it bring viewers up to speed in case they forgot the previous scene between or didn't assign to it the fullest meaning.
I disagree we 'needed' to see where that relationship goes. Simone is his only source for inside information, it's not like he's going to kill her. So he gets blunt and tells it like it it with no pretense or beating around the bush.

Still don't see it as a recap at all. And, if they had ignored the situation between the two after the hunting ambush it would have been rather sloppy story telling. Cutting to them later where she's still dishing intel while he just ignores what had happened would make zero sense.

It's a stretch because her actions are putting into danger every single member of her family and not just the single one she hates. So i can't at this point reconcile her choice with her characterization up to now even with those addictive\selfish qualities.

Moving ahead with the war has already put all of them into danger, so her motivations seem to be pretty close to home to me. Also, I've already said I understand her to be a damaged and selfish individual. People like that rarely care about the cumulative effect of their actions on other individuals. Look at her father, he clearly doesn't care what harm he puts his nephew into nor does he care about his brother's wishes to keep him out of it.

 

[-griffy-]

That scene with Mike and Dodd's daughter isn't a recap. It's not recapping previous info, it's revealing a new dynamic to that relationship. Previously Mike was playing her, making her feel comfortable and like the relationship is on equal footing, and thereby getting actionable information like Otto at the hospital. This week he is outright menacing and intimidating her into action rather than letting her voluntarily offer up info. It's an evolution of the relationship between those two characters as a direct consequence to the way the plot moves forward. Each character leaves that scene differently than they entered it.

 

[Cornballer]

New episode tonight:

Rhinoceros

Spoiler

Lou and Hank try to prevent an altercation; Peggy and Ed defend their choices; the Gerhardt clan attempts to get back one of their own.

The episode is scheduled for a 1hr 6min runtime tonight.

 

[TurboButts]

Finally caught up, and can now join this thread.

Everyone's favorite character is Mike Milligan right? Any weird alien theories?

Also, I'm only 23 so I obviously wasn't alive in this time - why do they keep referencing "standing in a line to fill up your car?"

 

[hammertomb]

Finally caught up, and can now join this thread.

Everyone's favorite character is Mike Milligan right? Any weird alien theories?

Also, I'm only 23 so I obviously wasn't alive in this time - why do they keep referencing "standing in a line to fill up your car?"

Not really. Don't like the way he talks.

 

[Cornballer]

Also, I'm only 23 so I obviously wasn't alive in this time - why do they keep referencing "standing in a line to fill up your car?"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_energy_crisis

The 1979 (or second) oil crisis or oil shock occurred in the United States due to decreased oil output in the wake of the Iranian Revolution. Despite the fact that global oil supply decreased by only ~4%, widespread panic resulted, driving the price far higher than justified by supply. The price of crude oil rose to $39.50 per barrel over the next 12 months and long lines once again appeared at gas stations, as they had in the 1973 oil crisis.

 

[TurboButts]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_energy_crisis

Thanks, wasn't aware of this. Interesting piece of flavor to add to the setting.

Not really. Don't like the way he talks.

Blasphemy, that's the best part about him!

 

[Cornballer]

- Figure It Out: Selected Scene - Episode 5

Whatever comes… they’ll deal with it or it’ll deal with them. Can Ed and Peggy make it work?

 

[Ivan Amiibo]

Ed should get arrested for [breaking bad spoilers]

Spoiler

shooting the kid in Breaking Bad. And then it turns out he is the guy from Breaking Bad and he traveled back in time with a time machine he found at Area 51 after his twin brother was killed.

yeah i'm still mad at him for that

 

[-griffy-]

Been awhile since we've had some pre-emptive critic hype, but Fargo seems a worthy enough show to warrant it:

 

[Blader]

Finally caught up over the weekend. Damn good season. I liked S1 too, but think this year has been an improvement on it all the same.

Is Jesse Plemons wearing a fat suit or is he just taking the Star Wars rejection that badly? Seems like an excessively unhealthy amount of weight to have put on so quickly.

 

[-griffy-]

Finally caught up over the weekend. Damn good season. I liked S1 too, but think this year has been an improvement on it all the same.

Is Jesse Plemons wearing a fat suit or is he just taking the Star Wars rejection that badly? Seems like an excessively unhealthy amount of weight to have put on so quickly.

He had gained weight for a different role in Black Mass, and when he got this part and Noah Hawley described Ed as a cow-like character, they decided to keep the weight on for the character.

 

[Lan Dong Mik]

Fucking hyped! Just got all caught up. Show of the fucking year so far. Nothing touches this. I don't think there is a boring/bad character on this show.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

He had gained weight for a different role in Black Mass, and when he got this part and Noah Hawley described Ed as a cow-like character, they decided to keep the weight on for the character.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure one of his more recent reviews featured him being a little reticent at the prospect of having to burn all that shit off.

It's gonna suck.

 

[Cornballer]

- YahooTV: 'Fargo' Preview: 5 Reasons You Should Be Watching This Show (some minor spoilers)

 

[Cornballer]

- Examiner.com interview with Bokeem Woodbine
- GQ interview with Rachel Keller (Simone)

 

[Niraj]

(Far)go time!

 

[IronRinn]

Yay Fargo!

 

[Baroquemantic]

Here we go!

 

[IronRinn]

You had your chance, Ed.

 

[jay23]

Yup this is exactly how I expected bear to react

 

[kris.]

I missed the first 5 minutes because I almost forgot the show was on. Miss anything big?