Support NeoGAF

[Bobby Roberts]

- Mike Milligan reading the Jabberwocky poem from Monday's episode (youtube)

As soon as he said "Twas brillig!" I started smiling.

 

[Moff]

no one mentioned the sioux falls reference, yet? we didn't know before that peggy's seminar was going to be there, did we?
so they probably flee there and everyone follows them.

I do have to say that I think it was a bit unrealistic that known criminals would openly lay siege to a police station like that. not that I knew too much about the US' history of crime but wouldn't they be completely destroyed after that?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

There's a fair bit in this fictional universe that seems to glide just outside of expected reality.

 

[zeitgeist]

no one mentioned the sioux falls reference, yet? we didn't know before that peggy's seminar was going to be there, did we?
so they probably flee there and everyone follows them.

I do have to say that I think it was a bit unrealistic that known criminals would openly lay siege to a police station like that. not that I knew too much about the US' history of crime but wouldn't they be completely destroyed after that?

I think its supposed to show just how over confidant and reckless the Gehrhardts are. They seem pretty delusional about their power and influence.

For Peggy, I hadn't even considered how Ted Danson just left. I hope she somehow manages to get to the seminar though.

 

[Bandit1]

I think there's some assumptions people are erroneously making. We'll have to wait until the next episode to see for sure, but I'm assuming that after Peggy shocks Dodd into unconsciousness, with another KO'd goon and one dead from Dodd's friendly fire, and a KO'd Hank on the front porch, that she isn't just gonna sit around. Presumably she takes off to Sioux Falls because gosh darn-it, that Life Spring seminar is important. Hank presumably took a look around when he woke up, saw the Gerhardt goons taken out (maybe Dodd had already left at that point even), saw Peggy missing and took off. Remember, Peggy said the seminar is tomorrow. (EDIT: Thinking on it more, Peggy may even go steal her car back from Sonny to drive to Sioux Falls, so they can't do the forensic work on it Hank told her about) It feels like we're just missing a logical A+B=C scene that we don't really need to see right now, and may in fact see next episode ala Peggy's POV of hitting Rye done in flashback.

Ed runs back home, sees the scene, sees Peggy is gone, and follows to Sioux Falls. Hanzee follows, other Gerhardts follow him, KC follows them, police follow everything, massacre happens, enough bodies to reach the second floor, etc.

This sounds very probable to me. Good thinking.

 

[IronRinn]

no one mentioned the sioux falls reference, yet? we didn't know before that peggy's seminar was going to be there, did we?
so they probably flee there and everyone follows them.

I do have to say that I think it was a bit unrealistic that known criminals would openly lay siege to a police station like that. not that I knew too much about the US' history of crime but wouldn't they be completely destroyed after that?

I'm fairly certain it's been mentioned at least once previous to this episode.

 

[IronRinn]

I think there's some assumptions people are erroneously making. We'll have to wait until the next episode to see for sure, but I'm assuming that after Peggy shocks Dodd into unconsciousness, with another KO'd goon and one dead from Dodd's friendly fire, and a KO'd Hank on the front porch, that she isn't just gonna sit around. Presumably she takes off to Sioux Falls because gosh darn-it, that Life Spring seminar is important. Hank presumably took a look around when he woke up, saw the Gerhardt goons taken out (maybe Dodd had already left at that point even), saw Peggy missing and took off. Remember, Peggy said the seminar is tomorrow. (EDIT: Thinking on it more, Peggy may even go steal her car back from Sonny to drive to Sioux Falls, so they can't do the forensic work on it Hank told her about) It feels like we're just missing a logical A+B=C scene that we don't really need to see right now, and may in fact see next episode ala Peggy's POV of hitting Rye done in flashback.

Ed runs back home, sees the scene, sees Peggy is gone, and follows to Sioux Falls. Hanzee follows, other Gerhardts follow him, KC follows them, police follow everything, massacre happens, enough bodies to reach the second floor, etc.

My only issue here is that when Ed runs doesn't Hank tell Lout to let him go because "we know where he's going"? I would assume he meant home and he doesn't mention Peggy being gone. I do think you're probably right, though, that it is more a case of we just haven't been shown what happened than Hawley et al are asking for us to look past an inconsistency. Sioux Falls will be as you describe (I think they've not been coy in hinting that) but also aliens.

 

[Saty]

Sorry for the late reply.

That is what makes her an interesting character. Are you saying you want her to be less complicated and believable?

That's what makes her scattered character that no one can point their finger at what drives her or what makes her do what she does. Undefinable and unidentifiable is what makes her not interesting to the point of writing her down as a plot-furthering device than a fleshed-out character.

Mike is a central character and his reaction to the killing, as well as Kansas City's view of the aftermath, are integral to the plot going forward. This scene is also used to advance Simone's arc as well. It's a very useful scene that is entertaining through the use of Mike's intimidating prescense.

Sure, but that doesn't necessitate showing Mike stomping his foot down and spelling out their obvious 'agreement'. I would rather have them attempt to flesh out Simone more and try to make us understand her actions. Simone's character is only as important as in how she facilitates the plot moving forward from Mike's side.

She got mindfucked and intimidated by Mike. She's afraid for her life.

She should have been afraid for her life ever since getting to know Mike and what he wants.

Yes, there are questionable and suspect decisions. These people are cowards, they are manipulators, they are flawed.

So when is it OK to criticize depiction of characters and choices they're making? You say i take every plot-moving event and criticize it for moving the plot, but i can say the same about you: no matter what the characters do you excuse it by saying everybody got flaws, everybody makes mistakes so no matter what iffy or questionable decisions are made to progress the plot, that's fine.

Moving ahead with the war has already put all of them into danger, so her motivations seem to be pretty close to home to me.

A war being started doesn't mean your informant becomes useless, on the contrary. Simone can warn him what's coming or tip him on this or that, just like we've seen in this week's episode.

--
Unto this week's episode:

1. Basically Peggy explains that anything that might disrupt the routine she's living in, that's fine. And then she goes on a rant that supposed to endear her, but no. Complaining about she lives in Ed's house, and that it was his parent's house, what? Like Ed kidnapped Peggy from Beverly Hills and brought her to this forsaken town or something. You're miserable and won't speak up, so sleep in the bed you made. But ofc, Sioux Falls is yet yo come, so she'll overcome Dodd and two of his men somehow. Dodd is flawed and thinks little of women so no issues with him leaving the prod, right?

2. What bothered me the most is Hansee seeing the opened window, realizing what happened, but instead of firing a warning shot so Bear can know something is up and storm the place, he just goes and tried to find them by himself w\o letting the others know that Karl is just trying to delay them.

 

[Sinatar]

no one mentioned the sioux falls reference, yet? we didn't know before that peggy's seminar was going to be there, did we?

It's been mentioned numerous times before now.

 

[Baldwin_the_First]

There's a fair bit in this fictional universe that seems to glide just outside of expected reality.

Pfff what? Isn't this a true story? It says so in the beginning of of every episodes so it's got to be all true!

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

I think there's some assumptions people are erroneously making. We'll have to wait until the next episode to see for sure, but I'm assuming that after Peggy shocks Dodd into unconsciousness, with another KO'd goon and one dead from Dodd's friendly fire, and a KO'd Hank on the front porch, that she isn't just gonna sit around. Presumably she takes off to Sioux Falls because gosh darn-it, that Life Spring seminar is important. Hank presumably took a look around when he woke up, saw the Gerhardt goons taken out (maybe Dodd had already left at that point even), saw Peggy missing and took off. Remember, Peggy said the seminar is tomorrow. (EDIT: Thinking on it more, Peggy may even go steal her car back from Sonny to drive to Sioux Falls, so they can't do the forensic work on it Hank told her about) It feels like we're just missing a logical A+B=C scene that we don't really need to see right now, and may in fact see next episode ala Peggy's POV of hitting Rye done in flashback.

Ed runs back home, sees the scene, sees Peggy is gone, and follows to Sioux Falls. Hanzee follows, other Gerhardts follow him, KC follows them, police follow everything, massacre happens, enough bodies to reach the second floor, etc.

1. I'm not sure how Peggy would steal her car back as she's not a car thief and thus doesn't have the skills necessary to steal a car.
2. Why would the Gerhardts follow Hanzee when they'll probably soon find out that their own turf is being attacked? Even if they don't find out KC has no reason to follow the Gerhardts, they can just take over their estate and ambush them when they inevitably come home.

Your theory could never last more than 2 episodes, you're assuming everyone to be completely reckless.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Episode was insane. Just relentlessly intense from start to finish. I feel like all the villains in this one are just as scary as Billy Bob in Season 1, but without feeling supernatural or protected by the plot. Hanzee in particular is one scary fucking dude.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

1. I'm not sure how Peggy would steal her car back as she's not a car thief and thus doesn't have the skills necessary to steal a car.

Sonny (Donnie) doesn't seem like the most competent dude on Earth. Sonny leaving the car unlocked and the keys in it somewhere isn't out of the realm of possibility, for example. Or that she might still have an extra car key. It's not like when she sold it to Sonny that she had the spare on her.

(not that I believe this is what's going to happen, but it's an out that allows for the theory that doesn't depend on her knowing how to hotwire a car)

(she could also just hop a bus. How she gets to Sioux Falls and that seminar probably isn't AS important as that she gets there at all)

 

[-griffy-]

1. I'm not sure how Peggy would steal her car back as she's not a car thief and thus doesn't have the skills necessary to steal a car.
2. Why would the Gerhardts follow Hanzee when they'll probably soon find out that their own turf is being attacked? Even if they don't find out KC has no reason to follow the Gerhardts, they can just take over their estate and ambush them when they inevitably come home.

Your theory could never last more than 2 episodes, you're assuming everyone to be completely reckless.

You're assuming Peggy would need to carjack her car to get it back from Sonny, who is a proven buffoon, not just get the keys that are probably just sitting in the repair shop and drive away. Or just make up some bullshit reason that she needs the car and Sonny goes along with it because why wouldn't he. (And as Bobby points out above, this point is kind of moot. The main thing is she's going to Sioux Falls, the method is kind of ancillary. Her taking the car just popped into my head as a possibility.)

And obviously I laid out an incredibly simplified chain of events. Based on what we know from season 1 and where things are leading in season 2, it seems clear stuff is going to come to a head in Sioux Falls, so all the major players need to get there. My post is less a detailed theory and more a "Peggy is probably going to Sioux Falls, and everyone else is going to follow for various reasons."

 

[Gozer the Gozerian]

Sonny (Donnie) doesn't seem like the most competent dude on Earth. Sonny leaving the car unlocked and the keys in it somewhere isn't out of the realm of possibility, for example. Or that she might still have an extra car key. It's not like when she sold it to Sonny that she had the spare on her.

(not that I believe this is what's going to happen, but it's an out that allows for the theory that doesn't depend on her knowing how to hotwire a car)

(she could also just hop a bus. How she gets to Sioux Falls and that seminar probably isn't AS important as that she gets there at all)

Not sure if that's really what's going to happen, but as a small town midwesterner I can confirm that everybody leaves their car unlocked and many people leave their keys in the car.

 

[ezekial45]

- Mike Milligan reading the Jabberwocky poem from Monday's episode (youtube)

I had a huge smile on my face when he started reciting this, he even used an accent.

 

[Spectral Glider]

A war being started doesn't mean your informant becomes useless, on the contrary. Simone can warn him what's coming or tip him on this or that, just like we've seen in this week's episode.

? That statement has absolutely nothing to do with anything I was discussing. Never once said she was useless, was referencing her being a selfish person as the reason she was helping Mike.

 

[Einchy]

That was one of the most intense episodes of TV I've ever seen.

 

[Cornballer]

Onion A|V Club's Polite Fight:

- Why do some Fargo characters sit back and watch the violence unfold?

This week’s uncompromisingly courteous installment of Polite Fight finds Gus Spelman and John Teti analyzing what Gus deems a “stylistically overt” episode of Fargo, paying special attention to the use of Sonny as an audience stand-in during the police station showdown. Gus stubbornly tries to dismiss John’s culturally grounded interpretation of the character, but John finally manages to convince him by making a compelling connection between Sonny and Simone.

Then comes a segment unofficially titled “Peggy’s Maze And Dodd’s Gaze,” as Gus notes that the absence of split-screens in the Blumquist basement sets Dodd’s pursuit of Peggy apart in an episode dominated by the device, and John points out that a limited perspective is perfect for the narrow-minded Dodd.

Gus and John also note an insightful “Jabberwocky” interpretation from the humorously named Sharkophagus, who illuminated the Lewis Carroll poem vis-a-vis Fargo in the comments on Zack Handlen’s review. Our hosts conclude by presenting an unpopular opinion about Nick Offerman’s performance in this episode, perhaps a fight for commenters to take up on the other side.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Another goddamn ridiculously good and tense episode. Offerman killed it.

 

[Dalek]

I cannot believe how good this season is. This might go down as the best single season of a TV Show I've ever seen if it keeps this up.

 

[ZackieChan]

I wasn't over the moon with this season for the first few episodes, but this one and the last really make me love it.

Wasn't super impressed by Offerman's bloviating lawyer-speak (it was just too much), but his showdown outside the police station was great.

 

[addik]

Finally got caught up to this season as well, and man, such quality. At first I wasn't sure if I liked the 70s style editing (though I appreciated it), but now I've come to love it. I have come to enjoy this season more than the last.

But now, damn, I have to wait for the next episode :/ This series is the type you binge-watch, not be on edge waiting for the next episode each week.

 

[Darkwater]

Another goddamn ridiculously good and tense episode. Offerman killed it.

Hear hear. Offerman stole the damn show the moment he walked into that police station!

"Out of my way, tool of the state!"

 

[Hatchtag]

Why would Peggy need her car when there's three perfectly good Gerhardt cars sitting in her drive way?

 

[Don Draper's Hat]

I wasn't over the moon with this season for the first few episodes, but this one and the last really make me love it.

Wasn't super impressed by Offerman's bloviating lawyer-speak (it was just too much), but his showdown outside the police station was great.

Glad someone else felt that way. I felt the drunken speech and mannerisms were far too over the top, but he did redeem himself somewhat when the gun was pointed at him.

 

[Cornballer]

Not that this comes as a surprise, but Jean Smart noted in a conference call that Hawley is in the early stages of planning S3 right now. No details were given as to what the plot might involve.

 

[Einchy]

The UFO was a hint at season 3.

It'll be a space opera to cash in on that Star Wars hype.

 

[El Daniel]

Not that this comes as a surprise, but Jean Smart noted in a conference call that Hawley is in the early stages of planning S3 right now. No details were given as to what the plot might involve.

That's great news. I also wouldn't mind if this team would make a complete new show as long as the same talent is involved.

 

[the_firewithin]

Offerman the best. Knew when the girl made the call to Mike that's where he was heading. The Indian is baller as hell. He's like "guess I'm walking"

 

[kris.]

Not that this comes as a surprise, but Jean Smart noted in a conference call that Hawley is in the early stages of planning S3 right now. No details were given as to what the plot might involve.

YAY

 

[Niraj]

Not that this comes as a surprise, but Jean Smart noted in a conference call that Hawley is in the early stages of planning S3 right now. No details were given as to what the plot might involve.

Nice to hear anyway.

 

[Cornballer]

That's great news. I also wouldn't mind if this team would make a complete new show as long as the same talent is involved.

Hawley is working on the pilot for Legion and adapting Cat’s Cradle in a miniseries for FX. Hopefully he has enough time to juggle the three.

Nice to hear anyway.

Yup. I have no doubt this will be renewed and it's normal for them to start brainstorming a new season early, but it's still good to hear.

 

[IronRinn]

I'm glad to see that Hawley is getting more work, for sure, but I just wish his efforts weren't being put to Marvel/comics trash.

I SAID TRASH! I SAID IT! I AM NOT SORRY!

 

[excelsiorlef]

no one mentioned the sioux falls reference, yet? we didn't know before that peggy's seminar was going to be there, did we?
so they probably flee there and everyone follows them.

I do have to say that I think it was a bit unrealistic that known criminals would openly lay siege to a police station like that. not that I knew too much about the US' history of crime but wouldn't they be completely destroyed after that?

Nah the seminar being in Sioux Falls has been known since day one.

 

[Dan]

Not that this comes as a surprise, but Jean Smart noted in a conference call that Hawley is in the early stages of planning S3 right now. No details were given as to what the plot might involve.

Time to skip 30 years into the future.

1. Basically Peggy explains that anything that might disrupt the routine she's living in, that's fine. And then she goes on a rant that supposed to endear her, but no. Complaining about she lives in Ed's house, and that it was his parent's house, what? Like Ed kidnapped Peggy from Beverly Hills and brought her to this forsaken town or something. You're miserable and won't speak up, so sleep in the bed you made.

I don't think the Peggy stuff was supposed to be "endearing". I think it would be foolish to believe the show wants you to react to that with a good ol "you go girl". It's just context for her headspace. She's a mentally ill woman caught up in a self-help movement and a period of societal changes in gender roles.

2. What bothered me the most is Hansee seeing the opened window, realizing what happened, but instead of firing a warning shot so Bear can know something is up and storm the place, he just goes and tried to find them by himself wo letting the others know that Karl is just trying to delay them.

I'm not sure why you think Hanzee particularly gives a shit about Bear or his son. He's there for Ed, first and foremost, at Dodd's behest.

 

[Cornballer]

- Fargo - This Is Our Time: Selected Scene - Episode 6 (youtube vid)

So, ya wanted to pick and choose, Simone? OK then…

 

[Mackmannen]

I'm like 10min in the latest ep. and it's so good. One of the best tv episodes ever made. Holy shit this season is so damn well crafted.

 

[TheExhaustedWalrus]

I really need to catch up on this. Sounds like I'm missing out. I only watched the first episode of the season and I've been too busy to catch any others. Thanksgiving break will just be a binge on this for me, and I cannot wait.

 

[LaneDS]

Not that this comes as a surprise, but Jean Smart noted in a conference call that Hawley is in the early stages of planning S3 right now. No details were given as to what the plot might involve.

Excellent to hear all the same!

 

[Mackmannen]

Holy shit it doesn't get any better then this best show of the year. Shit best show then lik deadwood or something.

 

[StopMakingSense]

Holy shit it doesn't get any better then this best show of the year. Shit best show then lik deadwood or something.

This shaping up to be the most solid single season of TV since Deadwood Season 1, IMO

 

[Creamium]

This season has such a colorful cast of antagonists, and characters in general. Part of me was worried that after the popularity of Billy Bob in S1 they would go back to that same well and we'd basically get 1970s Malvo, but that's not the case at all.

Most of the Gerhardts are like opposites of Malvo's character, another reason why this season feels so different compared to the first. Malvo was cold, calculated and manipulative, but the Gerhardts are more passionate and impulsive.

This shaping up to be the most solid single season of TV since Deadwood Season 1, IMO

Part of my excitement every week is seeing if this perfect streak will continue. There hasn't even been a single ep I could single out as being weaker than the rest.

 

[Hatchtag]

/tv/ says episode 7 leaked. I didn't want to read it so I don't know if its real. But be warned.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I've not seen 6 yet, being a week behind sucks.

 

[TheProdigal]

/tv/ says episode 7 leaked. I didn't want to read it so I don't know if its real. But be warned.

It leaked

 

[Cornballer]

Just a gentle reminder that anyone discussing the leaks, explaining where to find it, or begging for links to pirated content will get the taser.

 

[Saty]

I'm not sure why you think Hanzee particularly gives a shit about Bear or his son. He's there for Ed, first and foremost, at Dodd's behest.

Because if Hansee and Dodd want to thwart the Kansas City organization, they'll need the help of every member of the family and those loyal to them. As long as Bear doesn't bring back Charlie, resources and attention are going to be divided and thus the Gerhardt family chances to come up on top decrease. So if Hansee spots something that implies Karl's act is just for buying time, then it would be in his best interest to shoot a warning shot so Bear can get the hint and storm the station and take Charlie.

I would also like to think Hansee wouldn't mind the help chasing Ed and Lou down.

 

[-griffy-]

Because if Hansee and Dodd want to thwart the Kansas City organization, they'll need the help of every member of the family and those loyal to them. As long as Bear doesn't bring back Charlie, resources and attention are going to be divided and thus the Gerhardt family chances to come up on top decrease. So if Hansee spots something that implies Karl's act is just for buying time, then it would be in his best interest to shoot a warning shot so Bear can get the hint and storm the station and take Charlie.

I would also like to think Hansee wouldn't mind the help chasing Ed and Lou down.

So you're suggesting he fires a warning shot to alert the others, thereby also alerting Lou and Ed that they are being chased instead of thinking they are making a quiet escape where Hanzee can just quietly follow them? Seems like he's making a smart move.

I would also like to think it's become pretty clear that Hanzee is loyal to Dodd, not to the Gerhardt's as a whole. Specifically the scene this episode where Bear is fighting Dodd and Hanzee has no problem pulling a shotgun on Bear to stop the fight (and Floyd telling him to search for Rye but him going to Dodd first when he finds something, going along with Dodd's lie about the "Butcher of Luverne," etc.).

 

[Saty]

The urgency in which Lou and Ed were running was pretty high so i don't think it would have been affected by hearing the shot. You tend to go full speed in situations like that behaving according the worst scenario - that someone is trying to catch up on you. I would have said that Hansee should had radioed-over to Bear or some other guy, but knowing the writing style of the show i skipped the most direct and simple method because Fargo detests that and people will come up with thousand reasons why Hansee and others don't have communication equipment on them.
Plus, the negatives of letting Lou know don't outweigh having 2 more guys helping and flanking and maybe even taking one of the cars.

The best way for Hansee to protect Dodd and himself is to get everybody on the same page and un-distracted with other matters. Charlie remaining out in the wild reduces the Gerhardat's chances to beat KC, and who knows, Charlie might fall to the hands of Mike. When they'll return to their HQ they will learn the price of having more than KC go worry about.