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[TacticalFox88]

Net Neutrality - from the same entity that doesn't want you see a nipple on broadcast television.

After reading through the summary on the FCC's website, I've realized how truly scary this all is. Although they try to cushion it by specifically exempting broadband from some of the rules that now apply to it, we cannot expect it to stay that way forever. It never does with the government. They slowly worm their way into every nook and cranny they can until they have control. We are talking about the government here, and if there is one thing government has proven to be over the last, oh I don't know, 5000 years, it would be corrupt and inefficient. If people had any kind of forethought, they would have opposed this. Its just the start, people. The internet in its current form (that is, it being a part of our every day lives) has really only been around for about 10 years and they are already starting to regulate it. Now they just have the rest of eternity to continue regulating it. Have fun while you can folks, it'll will be very different in just a few years, and I'm not talking specifically about the effects of these net neutrality rules, but the endless laws and regulations that will inevitably pass in the coming years. They were just testing the waters here and I pity anyone who can't see these rules for what they are - a first step.

Besides that more philosophical argument, the rules are extremely unfair. My website that has maybe 400 hits per month should not be forced to be treated the same as, say, Youtube, which has over 1,000,000,000 users, by the broadband providers. And add to that the fact that, had they not passed this bill in 2010 and just approved these new rules, our communication through email and web-browsing would have been basically the same as they are now, maybe with some minor differences in which content providers you have access to on your specific service.

But, it passed. And, as usual, the corporations will continue to exist and the added costs of business will be passed on down to the consumer, as they always are when the government intervenes in the economy. Yawn. Wake me up when the government passes laws that are good for the people.

You actually think the FCC is the reason nudity isn't the norm on tv?

Ahahaha

 

[obijkenobi]

The weird, uniquely American perspective on government sometimes scares the shit out of me.

'We are talking about government here, and if there is one thing government has proven over the last 5000 years it would be corrupt and inefficient'.

I mean, do you understand how staggeringly insanely stupid that line is? The entirety of human history is people coming together to improve their lives, and democratic government is one of the greatest tools for that. Government isn't seperate from the people, it isn't some evil alien entity, government *is* the people.

Look at the last 150 years alone. The ban on slaving. Child poverty laws. Workers rights. Equalities. A man on the moon. The Internet you are posting this nonsense on right now. The entirety of western history has been the slow, incremental move to a stronger democratic government that better protects and serves its people, often against the wishes of nobles, Kings, companies, corporations and other vested interests. During which we have experienced some of the most profound and important changes in human history, and yet there's someone who believes that for the last 5000 years government has been evil. Do you have any idea how utterly, utterly wrong and ignorant you have to be to make that statement? How remarkably ridiculous it is?

America is the only country I know of where on one hand you can have incredible pride about the institutions of government, and the amazing steps forward things like the Constituion were, and then on the other hand condemn government as intrinsically foreign, evil and counter productive. By the same people.

TheRockClapping.GIF

Great post. It is certainly mind boggling. "America is great, except for everything!"

 

[massoluk]

An excellent counter argument against the current decision by the dissenting FCC commissioner:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqnnsFiiIwY#t=239

His reasoning was bull fucking shit, the ISPs have the so-called incentives to upgrade their services for eternity, it never happened.

 

[Sinfamy]

His reasoning was bull fucking shit, the ISPs have the so-called incentives to upgrade their services for eternity, it never happened.

Exactly.
AT&T has received billions in tax payer money and did jack shit with it.

 

[atomsk]

My website that has maybe 400 hits per month should not be forced to be treated the same as, say, Youtube, which has over 1,000,000,000 users, by the broadband providers.

This is exactly how it has been since the inception of the internet and is the reason there can be great innovations from random dudes in college dorm rooms coding up websites.

You literally have no idea how the internet works.

 

[BSsBrolly]

You actually think the FCC is the reason nudity isn't the norm on tv?

Ahahaha

The same logic people use to place blame on the IRS for taxes.

 

[Apt101]

A Facebook friend who I don't think is conservative but doesn't have a firm grasp on this topic sent me a link to the Fox News article. That comment section is unbelievable. People literally praying for Armageddon or comparing this to various Nazi policies. I honestly couldn't believe it first. I had to double check the URL and make sure it wasn't some really clever new satire site.

 

[Sinfamy]

A Facebook friend who I don't think is conservative but doesn't have a firm grasp on this topic sent me a link to the Fox News article. That comment section is unbelievable. People literally praying for Armageddon or comparing this to various Nazi policies. I honestly couldn't believe it first. I had to double check the URL and make sure it wasn't some really clever new satire site.

Some people really love to vote against their own interests.
"I don't need no Obamacare, now my appendix ruptured and I've got no insurance, guess I'll just die".

 

[RastaMentality]

The conservatives took advantage of a general lack of knowledge about a not so exciting topic in the public. It was actually kind of smart.

 

[More_Badass]

My dad's a conservative and the first thing he tells me this morning when he comes downstairs?

Paraphrasing: "Did you hear that the government took control of the Internet? First, they took over healthcare, now the Internet. This country's turning into North Korea."

Which is funny because just yesterday, he said he was for net neutrality. But I guess when the only news you watch and read is Fox...
---
So besides enforcing net neutrality, what are the benefits of this?

 

[BertramCooper]

A Facebook friend who I don't think is conservative but doesn't have a firm grasp on this topic sent me a link to the Fox News article. That comment section is unbelievable. People literally praying for Armageddon or comparing this to various Nazi policies. I honestly couldn't believe it first. I had to double check the URL and make sure it wasn't some really clever new satire site.

What's so dumb about the telecoms' strategy is that they didn't take advantage of these cretins months ago when the FCC comment period was open. I don't know if they could have matched the number of commenters that Oliver generated, but they probably could have made it close enough to render the results far less compelling.

But they didn't start fanning the flames of right-wing outrage until it was too late. Idiots.

 

[TacticalFox88]

What's so dumb about the telecoms' strategy is that they didn't take advantage of these cretins months ago when the FCC comment period was open. I don't know if they could have matched the number of commenters that Oliver generated, but they probably could have made it close enough to render the results far less compelling.

But they didn't start fanning the flames of right-wing outrage until it was too late. Idiots.

They likely thought they had the decision in the favor in the bag and didn't think it was necessary

 

[Mass Effect]

Fuck it

Obama is Aizen.

There I said it.

So does that make Biden Gin Ichimaru?

Wait, doesn't that make Republicans Soul Reapers?

It shows. You're using "=" instead of "==".

=)

I don't think there are == in VB?

 

[Shao Kahn on the Lawn]

The conservatives took advantage of a general lack of knowledge about a not so exciting topic in the public. It was actually kind of smart.

That is the only thing they do consistently.

 

[Apt101]

My dad's a conservative and the first thing he tells me this morning when he comes downstairs?

Paraphrasing: "Did you hear that the government took control of the Internet? First, they took over healthcare, now the Internet. This country's turning into North Korea."

Which is funny because just yesterday, he said he was for net neutrality. But I guess when the only news you watch and read is Fox...
---
So besides enforcing net neutrality, what are the benefits of this?

It opens up competition in areas where it used to be impossible. There are caveats and nuances, but basically it will be a hell of a lot easier for a company like Google to come to town with their fiber, or areas plagued by monopolies to form a municipality. While this holds, and hopefully it expands, the days of ISP's like Comcast getting billions to build networks they never make good on then lock down a city will be gone.

I'm just lucky I have Cox in my area. They offer a very good service for the price, are constantly pushing forward, and are quite decent in the customer service department. Always room for improvement, but when I hear the TW and Comcast horror stories I count my blessings.

 

[More_Badass]

It opens up competition in areas where it used to be impossible. There are caveats and nuances, but basically it will be a hell of a lot easier for a company like Google to come to town with their fiber, or areas plagued by monopolies to form a municipality. While this holds, and hopefully it expands, the days of ISP's like Comcast getting billions to build networks they never make good on then lock down a city will be gone.

I'm just lucky I have Cox in my area. They offer a very good service for the price, are constantly pushing forward, and are quite decent in the customer service department. Always room for improvement, but when I hear the TW and Comcast horror stories I count my blessings.

Sounds great

I kind of feel sorry for my dad. He's always going on about how competition is good for the market, etc., but because he gets his news filtered through Fox, he sees this news as a bad thing.

 

[Zalusithix]

Exactly.
AT&T has received billions in tax payer money and did jack shit with it.

Hey now, they paid their top execs handsomely! Going by corporate M.O., that's smart and efficient use of funds. Pay the execs, pay the shareholders, screw everybody else.

 

[linkboy]

Sounds great

I kind of feel sorry for my dad. He's always going on about how competition is good for the market, etc., but because he gets his news filtered through Fox, he sees this news as a bad thing.

My dad's the same way, I've actually cut them all off.

The only time I really talk to my parents if when they have my son (I'm in Korea, the soon to be ex is in Montana doing the moving process)

My dad is a closet racist and I don't want to associate with him ask that much since it always turns political and I'm sick of freaking dealing with it.

 

[Interfectum]

Echoing the racist parents problem... before the Fox News filter my mom was for Net Neutrality. Now King Obama has ruined our internet.

And she wonders why I don't call her every day. lol

 

[TacticalFox88]

My dad's the same way, I've actually cut them all off.

The only time I really talk to my parents if when they have my son (I'm in Korea, the soon to be ex is in Montana doing the moving process)

My dad is a closet racist and I don't want to associate with him ask that much since it always turns political and I'm sick of freaking dealing with it.

Jesus dude is there anybody in your fam not insane?

 

[More_Badass]

My dad's the same way, I've actually cut them all off.

The only time I really talk to my parents if when they have my son (I'm in Korea, the soon to be ex is in Montana doing the moving process)

My dad is a closet racist and I don't want to associate with him ask that much since it always turns political and I'm sick of freaking dealing with it.

Echoing the racist parents problem... before the Fox News filter my mom was for Net Neutrality. Now King Obama has ruined our internet.

And she wonders why I don't call her every day. lol

I live at home still, so I tend to get a daily dose of conservative nonsense. Good thing I can read GAF to balance things out

 

[linkboy]

Jesus dude is there anybody in your fam not insane?

My son, hopefully, but he's only 4. All he cares about is where his toys are.

Dad's a racist, mom's a control freak, one brother is a drug addict and the other is a conceited asshole.

Damn, typing it out like that, they are messed up.

 

[jdejose]

My website that has maybe 400 hits per month should not be forced to be treated the same as, say, Youtube, which has over 1,000,000,000 users, by the broadband providers.

This is the issue people don't understand. Your site and youtube are not treated equally by YOU and GOOGLE's hosting ISPs. You pay whatever it is you pay a month, and google pays a small fortune to host youtube and all the bandwidth it requires. That is fine, that is normal business, as your business grows so do your costs.

BUT as a consumer, i should have access to hit your site or youtube unimpeded. I pay my ISP a set amount of money for a set amount of bandwidth. Whatever I do with that bandwidth should be up to me. If I have the bandwidth and your service has the bandwidth, i should not be throttled or slowed down hitting your site.

This is like shopping at walmart or shopping at a mom and pop store. If I want to go to walmart, thats my choice, if i want to go to the mom and pop store, thats my choice. However if walmart makes a deal with the city to block access to the street the mom and pop store is located on because they don't want the competition, there's the issue.

 

[Azih]

It wasn't this bad for Bill Clinton, no.

No one ever questioned the legitimacy of his birth or disrespected him during a State Of The Union,

Ken Starr went after Bill Clinton like Bill Clinton had a whole van full of nuns murdered in cold blood or something.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I wonder how many people preaching the end of the Internet as we know it and literally North Korean realize that this was just solidifying in law how the Internet had worked since it was invented (except for the last few years as pay for speed stuff started trickling in)

 

[More_Badass]

I wonder how many people preaching the end of the Internet as we know it and literally North Korean realize that this was just solidifying in law how the Internet had worked since it was invented (except for the last few years as pay for speed stuff started trickling in)

Nah, to them, it just means the Internet going to be taxed now and sites will be censored

 

[Azih]

I think this is showing that it's not over. We need to keep on the message in the face of all this FUD.

The big telcos had pretty much assumed that they had the FCC under lock and key so they were trying to smother the issue. Now that they don't they're going for full on FUD.

 

[linkboy]

This is like shopping at walmart or shopping at a mom and pop store. If I want to go to walmart, thats my choice, if i want to go to the mom and pop store, thats my choice. However if walmart makes a deal with the city to block access to the street the mom and pop store is located on because they don't want the competition, there's the issue.

But Walmart should have that right, they're bigger and this better for the economy. Not to mention it should be up to states to decide.

(plus they've paid me a shit ton of money to spew this crap)

 

[DragonSworne]

Why do people keep insisting that government in of itself is corrupt and inefficient?

The only reason government and inefficiency happens in government is due to corporate interest. corruption occurs from outside forces trying to make an easy buck.

It's when you see the government say "fuck off" to meddling from corporations that we see true gains in public service.

I expect many great things for the future of Internet access in the US.

 

[Chichikov]

I don't consider a public utility to be "neutral internet" anymore than I'd consider it "neutral power" or "neutral water" we already have enough problems with monopoly contracts granted by local governments effectively banning choices.

The Kingsbury Commitment was bullshit and I don't trust the government to not create a new version as larger ISPs come to dominate the market completely, as smaller ISPs are driven out by municipal ISPs, and eventually fold into one monopoly entity with protection from anyone setting up competing infrastructure. (As was done with AT&T.)

You understand that classifying broadband as a utility is a way to achieve net neutrality, right?
We can have a discussion about whether or not this is the ideal way to achieve that (I don't think so by the way) but I think there's little doubt that this is only politically viable way to do that now.

So I'll ask you again, do you believe that net neutrality is a desired outcome and if so, how do you suggest we achieve it?
Now is it possible that the government will try to fuck with the internet?
Of course, but it was possible even without net neutrality (and those fuckers almost got away with it too), I'd rather us do good things and fight attempts of fuckery, instead of not doing anything because oh shit, something bad might happen in the future.

p.s.
Net neutrality is a different issue than public ISPs, I'm personally think public ISPs are a good idea, I think the private sector is failing consumers in the US, but you can have public ISPs with or without net neutrality, that's a different discussion.

 

[BertramCooper]

They likely thought they had the decision in the favor in the bag and didn't think it was necessary

Oh, no question. They banked on public apathy and got burned.

That said, they should have been on it, generating comments, as soon as it became apparent that the Oliver segment was blowing up. There are tons of companies who specialize in helping businesses and trade groups generate comments to government agencies and it doesn't take long at all to get a campaign started, provided you have the cash. Flood Facebook and Google with targeted ads and you'll have thousands and thousands of comments in hours.

Verizon's entire government relations team should be laid off. What a colossal fuck-up from start to finish.

 

[DragonSworne]

Oh, no question. They banked on public apathy and got burned.

That said, they should have been on it, generating comments, as soon as it became apparent that the Oliver segment was blowing up. There are tons of companies who specialize in helping businesses and trade groups generate comments to government agencies and it doesn't take long at all to get a campaign started, provided you have the cash. Flood Facebook and Google with targeted ads and you'll have thousands and thousands of comments in hours.

Verizon's entire government relations team should be laid off. What a colossal fuck-up from start to finish.

Ideally they should be fired and not replaced. Lobbyists are an awful part of the system that should be outlawed. But before that happens, a company having terrible lobbyists is better than having great ones.

 

[BertramCooper]

Idealy they should be fired and not replaced. Lobbyists are an awful part of the system that should be outlaw. But before that happens, a company have terrible lobbyists is better than having great ones.

Yeah, to clarify, I'd actually love for this inept G.R. team to stay at Verizon forever and ever.

I was speaking as if I were someone at Verizon management.

 

[benjipwns]

Why do people keep insisting that government in of itself is corrupt and inefficient?

The only reason government and inefficiency happens in government is due to corporate interest. corruption occurs from outside forces trying to make an easy buck.

It's when you see the government say "fuck off" to meddling from corporations that we see true gains in public service.

The government is the seller. Why would outside forces want to buy off government power if government didn't have the power to use towards their advantage? And why would the government want to stop selling their product to all the willing buyers?

Ideally they should be fired and not replaced. Lobbyists are an awful part of the system that should be outlawed. But before that happens, a company having terrible lobbyists is better than having great ones.

What makes a "lobbyist"? Groups sending in amicus briefs to the Supreme Court and letters/fundraising threats to Congress about equalizing marriage rules?

You understand that classifying broadband as a utility is a way to achieve net neutrality, right?
...
So I'll ask you again, do you believe that net neutrality is a desired outcome and if so, how do you suggest we achieve it?

"Net neutrality" has no meaning to me other than as a buzzphrase. There will be favorites played, packets will not be equal. Nobody relevant has any interest in it. Just like with telephone service and radio initially. It's too valuable to allow it unfettered.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Ok let me clarify. What affects ME as a consumer is:

1. I still have caps
2. Speeds won't get better (most likely)
3. Pricing won't get better
4. I guess they can't have preference for websites

Do you pay for Netflix, Hulu, Spotify or any other streaming services? If so, the ruling means that ISPs can't charge/let them pay for faster lanes for their data. Which means you won't get subscription hikes due to those increased costs for the streaming providers.

 

[0xCA2]

Title 2 means nothing, all of the other rules around it have the teeth. The explicitly took 95% of Title 2 and voided it for this implementation. It was spelled out in the summaries and will be spelled out in the details.

Yes, they added wireless, thats great news, and it allowed them to get around the legal issues they had last time with trying NN, which was killed in the courts because they said they couldn't do it without them being under title 2. All the really awesome stuff, like rate regulation and line sharing, were explicitly stripped

This depresses me so much.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Net Neutrality - from the same entity that doesn't want you see a nipple on broadcast television.

Amazing.

 

[Neuromancer]

Yippee ki aye mother cluckers

 

[FlyinJ]

Oh, no question. They banked on public apathy and got burned.

That said, they should have been on it, generating comments, as soon as it became apparent that the Oliver segment was blowing up. There are tons of companies who specialize in helping businesses and trade groups generate comments to government agencies and it doesn't take long at all to get a campaign started, provided you have the cash. Flood Facebook and Google with targeted ads and you'll have thousands and thousands of comments in hours.

Verizon's entire government relations team should be laid off. What a colossal fuck-up from start to finish.

Verizon definitely got away way too easily from breaking their binding contract in NYC to have FiOS available at every address by 2014. They just simply stopped installing new lines, and no one seemed to give a fuck. They still have had zero liability for breaking their contract with NYC.

The contract they signed banned any other providers from laying optical cable in NYC, but Verizon had to provide for every address.

So, basically Verizon set back NYC broadband by a decade, and have faced no legal repercussions at all.

Fuck them.

 

[Amentallica]

Why do people keep insisting that government in of itself is corrupt and inefficient?

The only reason government and inefficiency happens in government is due to corporate interest. corruption occurs from outside forces trying to make an easy buck.

It's when you see the government say "fuck off" to meddling from corporations that we see true gains in public service.

I expect many great things for the future of Internet access in the US.

No, corruption in the public sector is not solely attributed to corporate interest. Although I would argue that a majority of humans have good intentions, the fact remains that some bad apples exist in all institutions. To boot, we're quite gullible, too, and even those with the greatest intentions may find themselves succumbing to some corrupt activities.

Simply saying "fuck of" to corporations won't get rid of corruption. Corruption will always exist, that isn't going away. What you can help improve is efficiency. I'm proud to be a United States citizen, but I also understand that it, like so many institutions, has its flaws and will never be perfect. Government should always strive to be as efficient as possible, and although perfection will never be reached, setting such a high bar means there is always room for improvement.

Regarding the topic at hand, I'm happy with this decision. I expect unexpected and unforeseen side effects at some point, as nothing is perfect, but this is certainly, in my opinion, a step in the right direction given the status of internet in the United States.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Exactly.
AT&T has received billions in tax payer money and did jack shit with it.

Yeah, didn't the corrupt fucks receive massive amounts of cash to expand their broadband and fiver networks and did jack shit with it?

 

[jmood88]

His reasoning was bull fucking shit, the ISPs have the so-called incentives to upgrade their services for eternity, it never happened.

He's obviously being paid for so his opinion doesn't mean much but what's said and exasperating is the that others will believe that bullshit. I don't know what world people are living in where the telecom companies have been innovative. We've been getting ripped off left and right and people are content. It makes no sense.

 

[Big Papa Husker]

Friend on Facebook commented on my link about it passing saying

"Booo! Terrible for everyone!" because...

*Stifles innovation
*Fucks up market pricing
*Bandwidth hogs should be charged more
*You use more of a service you should pay more and It shouldn't be equal pricing for all
*You don't understand how free markets and supply and demand work
*John Oliver is an idiot.He's funny but he doesn't understand issues. Just talks about them

 

[Dai101]

Friend on Facebook commented on my link about it passing saying

"Booo! Terrible for everyone!" because...

*Stifles innovation
*Fucks up market pricing
*Bandwidth hogs should be charged more
*You use more of a service you should pay more and It shouldn't be equal pricing for all

So. Parroting every bullshit point spewed by fox news and other conservative outlets.

 

[FelixOrion]

Net Neutrality - from the same entity that doesn't want you see a nipple on broadcast television.

After reading through the summary on the FCC's website, I've realized how truly scary this all is. Although they try to cushion it by specifically exempting broadband from some of the rules that now apply to it, we cannot expect it to stay that way forever. It never does with the government. They slowly worm their way into every nook and cranny they can until they have control. We are talking about the government here, and if there is one thing government has proven to be over the last, oh I don't know, 5000 years, it would be corrupt and inefficient. If people had any kind of forethought, they would have opposed this. Its just the start, people. The internet in its current form (that is, it being a part of our every day lives) has really only been around for about 10 years and they are already starting to regulate it. Now they just have the rest of eternity to continue regulating it. Have fun while you can folks, it'll will be very different in just a few years, and I'm not talking specifically about the effects of these net neutrality rules, but the endless laws and regulations that will inevitably pass in the coming years. They were just testing the waters here and I pity anyone who can't see these rules for what they are - a first step.

Besides that more philosophical argument, the rules are extremely unfair. My website that has maybe 400 hits per month should not be forced to be treated the same as, say, Youtube, which has over 1,000,000,000 users, by the broadband providers. And add to that the fact that, had they not passed this bill in 2010 and just approved these new rules, our communication through email and web-browsing would have been basically the same as they are now, maybe with some minor differences in which content providers you have access to on your specific service.

But, it passed. And, as usual, the corporations will continue to exist and the added costs of business will be passed on down to the consumer, as they always are when the government intervenes in the economy. Yawn. Wake me up when the government passes laws that are good for the people.

Comedy fucking gold. Really great batch of juniors lately.

 

[Big Papa Husker]

So. Parroting every bullshit point spewed by fox news and other conservative outlets.

Oh refresh my post, he made more comments. Lmao

 

[Unknown One]

Fox news ruins families confirmed.

 

[Josh7289]

The FCC is awesome. I'm so happy they came through for us in the end. The more I read about this, the more surprised, impressed, and pleased I am with their decisions.

 

[RDreamer]

Jesus, the anti-Net Neutrality posts I'm seeing are fucking nuts:

The internet wasnt fucked up yesterday or the day before and they've been doing this forever it doesn't slow anyone down its just creating pathways for the most direct route to services that need it and like streaming services or games were they need a response time as fast as humanly possible. A written word website doesnt need that kind of response time so they dont have to pay for it. You dont need to have a page on Wikipedia load up in 50ms. 500ms is plenty fine. The only thing that this law does is force everyone to get the 50 ms which means every company that used to get by on the cheap stuff now has to pay a premium for gaming level services.

The idea is fine but realize an upstart cant afford the prices once this shit hits. There wont be anymore freedom on the web because no one will be able to pay to have a website up you wont see upstarts unless they're sponsored by the freakishly large companies. Before you could make a site on the cheap it might be a little slow if your making like a game or something but itll run and you can speed up down the line if its successful. Now it wont run at all cause your quirky little fun cat video or whatever is not worth the price to putt it out there.

And now in a separate thread he's saying:

Net neutrality isnt a bad thing the problem comes in when you introduce this type of legislation forcing it by governement control

How do you even argue with this shit!?

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Yeah, didn't the corrupt fucks receive massive amounts of cash to expand their broadband and fiver networks and did jack shit with it?

Yep. It was like a 10 or 20 year deal, receiving billions and literally nothing to show for it. That's why when AT&T threatened the FCC, they called their bluff about their infrastructure and backed down immediately.