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[subzero9285]

Feathered dinosaurs may have been the rule, not the exception. A stunning new fossil from China reveals primitive filamentary feathers on a dinosaur only distantly related to birds, indicating that all dinosaurs share a feathery ancestry.

Previously, experts thought the first feathered dinosaurs appeared about 150 million years ago, but the find suggests feathers evolved much earlier. This has raised the question of whether many more of the creatures may have been covered with similar bristles, or "dino-fuzz". The team describe the fossil in the journal Nature.

Hai-Lu You, a researcher from the Insitute of Geology in Beijing, was part of the team that discovered the fossil. He told BBC News he was "very excited" when he realised the significance of what his team had found. He described the filaments seen on the body of the new dinosaur, which the team has named Tianyulong confuciusi, as "protofeathers" - the precursors of modern feathers. "Their function was probably display, as well as to keep the body warm" he said.

Dr You's team noticed that the filaments on the base of their dinosaur's tail were extremely long. These, they suggest, might have evolved for show, and may even have been coloured. "The world of dinosaurs would [have been] more colourful and active than we previously imagined," he said.

Dinosaurs can be categorised into two large families - the Saurischia and the Ornithischia.
The Saurischia family includes the theropods - thought to be the ancestors of modern birds. Fossils of these dinosaurs have revealed that some of them were feathered. But the newly-discovered dinosaur is a member of the Ornithischia group - all previously thought to have reptilian scales.

Professor Lawrence Witmer, a paleontologist from Ohio University, says this "really muddies the waters" of what researchers know about the origin of feathers. It suggests that their origin might go right back to the earliest ancestors of all dinosaurs - more than 200 million years ago. "The bad news is that something we thought was neatly wrapped up is now not so neat," said Professor Witmer. "We now need to rethink what the coat of the ancestral dinosaurs actually was."

He added: "But the good news is that we can now look at existing evidence with new eyes - going back to old fossils and asking if there is evidence of any of these filaments." The team, who named the dinosaur after the Tianyu Museum of Nature, where the fossil is housed, also dedicated part of its name to the philosopher Confucius to reflect how it has changed the modern view of dinosaurs.

"Maybe all dinosaurs, even the predominantly scaled ones, had fuzzy parts," added Professor Witmer.

"And if they were covered in a fuzzy coat, what does that tell us about their physiology? Perhaps they were warm-blooded.

"We now need to think completely differently about the evidence we already have."

BBC
Science News
AP

Artist rendering of Tianyulong confuciusi

A tyrannosauroid with feathers

Does this change your perception of Dinosaurs as scaly, colourless reptiles?

 

[Dali]

That tyranosaur looks fabulous.

 

[Phobophile]

Awesome. This more than makes up for demoting Pluto from its planetary status.

 

[perfectchaos007]

I knew all birds came from dinosaurs, but didn't know all dinosaurs were birds. It makes sense though.

 

[radioheadrule83]

ILM should rework the Jurrassic Park sfx asap

 

[MrHicks]

dammit now jurrasic park needs a remake

 

[SnakeXs]

Awesome. This more than makes up for demoting Pluto from its planetary status.

What first you ruin my 9 planets, now you ruin my Jurassic Park and it makes up for it?

>=[

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

And there will still be people who deny evolution.

 

[Zeliard]

I prefer scales. More dragon-like.

Wikipedia says perhaps not the T-Rex, due to its specific makeup:

In 2004, the scientific journal Nature published a report describing an early tyrannosauroid, Dilong paradoxus, from the famous Yixian Formation of China. As with many other theropods discovered in the Yixian, the fossil skeleton was preserved with a coat of filamentous structures which are commonly recognized as the precursors of feathers. It has also been proposed that Tyrannosaurus and other closely related tyrannosaurids had such protofeathers. However, skin impressions from large tyrannosaurid specimens show mosaic scales.[63] While it is possible that protofeathers existed on parts of the body which have not been preserved, a lack of insulatory body covering is consistent with modern multi-ton mammals such as elephants, hippopotamus, and most species of rhinoceros. As an object increases in size, its ability to retain heat increases due to its decreasing surface area-to-volume ratio. Therefore, as large animals evolve in or disperse into warm climates, a coat of fur or feathers loses its selective advantage for thermal insulation and can instead become a disadvantage, as the insulation traps excess heat inside the body, possibly overheating the animal. Protofeathers may also have been secondarily lost during the evolution of large tyrannosaurids like Tyrannosaurus, especially in warm Cretaceous climates.[64]

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Have we got pics of what a proto-feather would look like?

Also, the bigger dinosaurs would have been mostly scaled.

 

[Mammothtank]

 

[JBuccCP]

Fuck that. They will always be scaly to me. Movies>Science.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Awesome. This more than makes up for demoting Pluto from its planetary status.

I read somewhere that only Americans have real issues with the Pluto demotion thing, and the rest of the world for the most part was fine with accepting the change. Anyone else hear this? I don't mind either way, change is supposed to be a part of science and all given new information has been gathered.

"Maybe all dinosaurs, even the predominantly scaled ones, had fuzzy parts," added Professor Witmer.

Oh god...what will happen when the furries hear about this?

 

[Shockgamer]

Some truths are better left unknown.

 

[DMczaf]

I will not tell my future son that most dinosaurs had f'ing feathers.

 

[MaddenNFL64]

Damn, kinda would kill my image of the T-Rex, if they had beautiful plumage.

 

[Bisnic]

Nooooo, don't ruin my Jurassic Park's childhood!

 

[AniHawk]

I knew all birds came from dinosaurs, but didn't know all dinosaurs were birds. It makes sense though.

Actually, God did it.

 

[SnakeXs]

I will not tell my future son that most dinosaurs had f'ing feathers.

I'm sticking to "See that lizard? Imagine that, 100 times bigger, with teeth the size of your face. THAT'S WHAT RULED THE EARTH. THAT!" angle. Giant chicken will put the fear of them in no one.

 

[speculawyer]

That tyranosaur looks fabulous.

Dinosaurs have become gay. It's a conspiracy to drive religious fundamentalists crazy . . . not only do those dinosaurs that you kids love help prove evolution, they are also flaming fabulous!

 

[speculawyer]

I'm sticking to "See that lizard? Imagine that, 100 times bigger, with teeth the size of your face. THAT'S WHAT RULED THE EARTH. THAT!" angle. Giant chicken will put the fear of them in no one.

Yeah, well, the chicken is descendant of dinosaurs whereas lizards are not.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Guys, relax! T-Rex, a lot of the larger therapods and (I'm inclined to bet) nearly all the sauropods, ankylosaurs, cerasaurs and stegosaurs would still have been scaled. Animals don't normally get that big in warm climates without losing most of their insulation.

 

[subzero9285]

Have we got pics of what a proto-feather would look like?

Also, the bigger dinosaurs would have been mostly scaled.

This fossil belongs to the Tyrannosaurid in the op, note the impressions above the fossilised bone.

 

[MrHicks]

WARNING: childhood rape

 

[CrystalGemini]

I'm sticking to "See that lizard? Imagine that, 100 times bigger, with teeth the size of your face. THAT'S WHAT RULED THE EARTH. THAT!" angle. Giant chicken will put the fear of them in no one.

Turkeys are fuckin' VICIOUS, man.

Also I would think they would be more like any birds of prey as opposed to peacocks.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

This fossil belongs to the Tyrannosaurid in the op, note the impressions above the fossilised bone.

I was hoping more for the ornischid feathers. Apparently, they're like the saurischid feathers (and bird feathers) but less developed. I want to know what that would look like.

 

[subzero9285]

Have we got pics of what a proto-feather would look like?

Also, the bigger dinosaurs would have been mostly scaled.

I wouldn't be so sure of that.

 

[Zeliard]

Guys, relax! T-Rex, a lot of the larger therapods and (I'm inclined to bet) nearly all the sauropods, ankylosaurs, cerasaurs and stegosaurs would still have been scaled. Animals don't normally get that big in warm climates without losing most of their insulation.

There's this guy from the late Cretaceous:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantoraptor_erlianensis

 

[MaddenNFL64]

Actually, those dinos look badass. I change my mind. Just give the T-Rex a mohawk, and i'll be cool.

 

[Kinitari]

I wouldn't be so sure of that.

[/QUOTE]

Is that a mohawk?

Edit: The smaller ones look like they have that chest hair thing that sticks out of v-necks in hairy guys/Robin Williams.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

I wouldn't be so sure of that.

Like I said. Mostly scaled

Just like how rhinos and elephants are mostly hairless.

There's this guy from the late Cretaceous:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantoraptor_erlianensis

That guy is so cool! So far, feathers are only inferred for Gigantoraptor at the moment, however. He's a relative of Oviraptor, which is awesome as well.

I really should check out some more recent dino stuff.

 

[prodystopian]

It was quite interesting going from the 'Canada's Science Minister...Creationist' thread to this one.

 

[subzero9285]

I was hoping more for the ornischid feathers. Apparently, they're like the saurischid feathers (and bird feathers) but less developed. I want to know what that would look like.

This proto-feather-clad skeleton is from Beiapiosaurus. The Yellow arrows point to single-filament feathers.

 

[Rocket Punch]

More evidence that man and t-rex walked the earth at the same time.

 

[titiklabingapat]

I always thought dinosaurs as they were depicted in the 20th century looked kind of weird. Like they are naked or something.

 

[kswiston]

Jurassic Park was never fully accurate anyhow.

Velociraptor:

Not knowing about the feathers is one thing, but they still turned a 2-foot tall, 30 pound dino into something about 5 times as massive.

They should have used Deinonychus instead:

Also, sequels should have had these bad boys:

 

[TreIII]

Sweet vindication for Raptor Safari! :lol :lol

 

[notsol337]

Awesome. This more than makes up for demoting Pluto from its planetary status.

It wasn't demoted, it was never a planet to begin with.

 

[daw840]

Hey, you never know. Man definitely could have been around at the same time as the dinosaurs. It's in the Bible. AFAIK, nothing has been 100% disproven in the Bible.

Job chapter 41, Psalm 104:25,26 and Isaiah 27:1



Note: I am not a religious zealot. I take the bible as a historical document. Source

 

[KidGalactus]

Once again, I am ahead of the curve!

Just 'cause dinosaurs were fuzzy doesn't make them lame.

 

[subzero9285]

Hey, you never know. Man definitely could have been around at the same time as the dinosaurs. It's in the Bible. AFAIK, nothing has been 100% disproven in the Bible.

Job chapter 41, Psalm 104:25,26 and Isaiah 27:1



Note: I am not a religious zealot. I take the bible as a historical document.

Clearly.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Hey, you never know. Man definitely could have been around at the same time as the dinosaurs. It's in the Bible. AFAIK, nothing has been 100% disproven in the Bible.

Job chapter 41, Psalm 104:25,26 and Isaiah 27:1



Note: I am not a religious zealot. I take the bible as a historical document.

Legends of dragons and other large creatures were pretty common in the ancient world. The verses you're referencing may refer to crocodiles, elephants, hippos etc as described by someone who had never seen any of these creatures before. They're used as allegorical and/or metaphorical devices in each of these verses.

There are Norse carvings of lions that were carved millenia after lions became extinct in that part of Europe that were based on Greco-Roman descriptions of lions. (Hint: they look nothing like lions at all)

EDIT: So why carve lions at all? Lions back then were seen as universal symbols of majesty and might. The actual creature itself wasn't what was important, but what a lion represents.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Feathered dinosaurs (including birds, which ARE dinosaurs) are own.

 

[thetrin]

I am not a religious zealot. I take the bible as a historical document. Source

Hmmm...

 

[unifin]

Hey, you never know. Man definitely could have been around at the same time as the dinosaurs. It's in the Bible. AFAIK, nothing has been 100% disproven in the Bible.

Job chapter 41, Psalm 104:25,26 and Isaiah 27:1



Note: I am not a religious zealot. I take the bible as a historical document. Source

Because ancient peoples with zero knowledge of carbon dating or modern archaeological techniques could surely have accurately dated dinosaur remains. It's not like the fossil record shows dinosaurs completely vanishing around 65 million years BCE.

Oh wait.

:/

Let's not turn this into a "lol look at those evangelical fundies" thread though.

There are plenty of Christians like myself who trust the judgement and reason of people who are experts in their field over hundreds of years of scientific precedent.

Also, historical document != literal interpretation.

EDIT:

Many fossil dinosaur skulls contain unexplained, empty passages. Scientists have not been able to guess the reason for these passages. Would it make sense that some dinosaurs used these passages as “gas tanks” for the combustible mixture used to “breathe fire?” We believe it does.

REALLY? THIS is the document you're choosing as your source?

After all, it's not like lizard or bird skulls are full of holes.

Holy shit firebreathing birds and lizards goddamn.

 

[nyong]

Note: I am not a religious zealot. I take the bible as a historical document. Source

Many fossil dinosaur skulls contain unexplained, empty passages. Scientists have not been able to guess the reason for these passages. Would it make sense that some dinosaurs used these passages as “gas tanks” for the combustible mixture used to “breathe fire?” We believe it does.

:lol

 

[speculawyer]

Hey, you never know. Man definitely could have been around at the same time as the dinosaurs. It's in the Bible. AFAIK, nothing has been 100% disproven in the Bible.

So Pi is 3? Damn . . . the entire mathematical community thought it was an irrational number a little bit larger than 3.

 

[orioto]

Feathered dinosaur are not badass... I see all dinosaurs as pussys now!

 

[Ether_Snake]

This proto-feather-clad skeleton is from Beiapiosaurus. The Yellow arrows point to single-filament feathers.

You know maybe the dragon myths come from the unearthing of dinosaur fossils?

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

You know maybe the dragon myths come from the unearthing of dinosaur fossils?

Certainly so in China. Dinosaur fossils (when found) would routinely be ground up and put into medicine as dragon bones. Mining activity in Europe would probably have yielded the same sort of thing.