• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Fighting Game Headquarters |3| [Cinematic Title Expansion Coming Soon]

Status
Not open for further replies.
Did the.move from arcade to consoles become a factor in long combo and low damage focused games? I assume damage was high in older arcade games to get the loser to spend more money.

Well did sfv really bomb? Maybe the series isn't as big anymore as everyone thought.

It sold really poorly compared to previous entries in the franchise and to similar games in the genre. We can speculate on how well Capcom actually expected this game to do, or whether it jeopardizes SF's status as the top game in the FGC, but I think we can all agree that it's atleast disappointing, if not plain catastrophic.

I like playing the game and I think the core of it is really solid, but it seems like that's not nearly enough in 2016.
 
40 people already registered for Korea's road to evo tournament. Winner gets flown out to evo.

Players confirmed thus far:
NL
Hydebuffy
200won
Neothesinger
Madkof
Verloren
Zzangmoo
 

MechaX

Member
Well shit. My friend accidentally broke my laptop hinge and I have to send it in for repairs (probably $400 worth too for a $1100 Lenovo), and I have zero access to SFV.

I wish there was a fighting game character anywhere that can encapsulate my salt and anger ATM.

But in other news, how about that Guile
 

VariantX

Member
That is the issue. Their hope to capture a bigger base could be through rebranding but the idea of Capcom releasing revisions is poison. They can't call it Super or Ultra because people won't read far enough to discover that the update is free.

Just call it season 2 , round 2, or v.2017 or anything that doesn't give the impression its a new version to casual but a contiuation/update.
 
Just call it season 2 , round 2, or v.2017 or anything that doesn't give the impression its a new version to casual but a contiuation/update.

You don't get it do you. This isn't fucking Final Fantasy, this is Street Fighter a game series that has had more rebranding & updates to it's games than any other.

If they release a new version all people are going to do is go "There it is the real version of SFV with all the features that SHOULD have been in the original. ScamCom. They said they wouldn't do it & they lied"

In no way is releasing another version of SFV in anyway a good idea.
 
You don't get it do you. This isn't fucking Final Fantasy, this is Street Fighter a game series that has had more rebranding & updates to it's games than any other.

If they release a new version all people are going to do is go "There it is the real version of SFV with all the features that SHOULD have been in the original. ScamCom. They said they wouldn't do it & they lied"

In no way is releasing another version of SFV in anyway a good idea.
Maybe F2P model can save them?
 

Pompadour

Member
Maybe F2P model can save them?

Maybe. I just read some comments on a r/PS4 thread about the Guile news and some of them are stunning. There were comments from people thinking Guile should have been at launch because he was "already made" in Street Fighter 4. If this is the knowledge of the game that casual fans no wonder SFV sold poorly.
 
Maybe F2P model can save them?

Save? No. Going F2P is the best option at this point though to try & bring in cash from people who have a passing interest in the game. Problem is F2P money wont be enough to fund development. It's simply going to be used to offset the loss do to the poor retail release.

Hardest thing about a fighting game going F2P is that it takes waaaaaay more work to crank out a new character in them than it does for MOBAs. That's why other F2P fighters either reuse old assets or look & animate like crap.
 

oneida

Cock Strain, Lifetime Warranty
40 people already registered for Korea's road to evo tournament. Winner gets flown out to evo.

Players confirmed thus far:
NL
Hydebuffy
200won
Neothesinger
Madkof
Verloren
Zzangmoo
is Neothesinger the same person as weirdoneo? cause hes korean and a singer. used to come to my fight night years ago, played chun & juri.
 

Nuu

Banned
You don't get it do you. This isn't fucking Final Fantasy, this is Street Fighter a game series that has had more rebranding & updates to it's games than any other.

If they release a new version all people are going to do is go "There it is the real version of SFV with all the features that SHOULD have been in the original. ScamCom. They said they wouldn't do it & they lied"

In no way is releasing another version of SFV in anyway a good idea.

I still feel that a relaunch would be less damaging then trying to continue to man a sinking ship. Not to mention most casuals don't know that Capcom promised not to update Street Fighter V.
 

.la1n

Member
I'm not convinced yet that Street Fighter V won't ultimately do well for Capcom in it's current form and release schedule. It's way too early.

I do think that the company as a whole might be taking a step back and reevaluate how much money they are willing to put into the game and fighting games in general moving past this first year.
 

ShinMaruku

Member
First and formost thing they need to do is educate themselves on what service is, or better yet remove themselves from that mindset and actually try to learn about their market and not just the tourney goers you never get good information from people in a bubble.
 

shaowebb

Member
Has anyone here heard anything more about the Project M folks who left to start their own game? I really want to hear more on them whenever they are ready to showcase anything. To date I still feel Project M is the most fun I ever had from Smash.
 
Well shit. My friend accidentally broke my laptop hinge and I have to send it in for repairs (probably $400 worth too for a $1100 Lenovo), and I have zero access to SFV.

I wish there was a fighting game character anywhere that can encapsulate my salt and anger ATM.

But in other news, how about that Guile

stop playing mika
 
So much this. I think some people are out of their minds with the overcast and doom prognostications.

There aren't any good recent examples to suggest that they are wrong.

Edit: It's only really a problem when it gets tied into the "Capcom is dying" narrative. Which is just a newer spin on the Capcom sucks narrative because they haven't put out too many good games in a while.
 

Thores

Member
Has anyone here heard anything more about the Project M folks who left to start their own game? I really want to hear more on them whenever they are ready to showcase anything. To date I still feel Project M is the most fun I ever had from Smash.
Tangentially, how's your project coming along? There was a long stretch where I sort of lost track of GAF FGC but I've remained excited about whatever you and Q were working on and interested in hearing more.
 

shaowebb

Member
Tangentially, how's your project coming along? There was a long stretch where I sort of lost track of GAF FGC but I've remained excited about whatever you and Q were working on and interested in hearing more.

Got textures on the training stage now. Only a couple of character concepts left to finalize a bit over a two thirds are finalized in concepts. Textures and UV work coming along on cast. Goin into the other maps on the training stage to see what looks best in terms of specular, depth map, diffuse, yada yada yada just to test the look of the art in game. Same will need done on everyone else. Continuing the work on keyframe sketches to put into animation as I go. Aaaaaaaand being a complete wimp about getting around to redoing the UV work to put one dude into the game already whose old UV's I didn't like the layout of in Zbrush. Also being a wimp about unwrapping UV's on the first real stage that I finished modeling and posted to indie gaf. Here's an image thats sans some more stuff I need to add like trees and some plants that will glow as light sources in jars instead of normal lamps. Reason being is that first I wanna unwrap and texture the rest and then figure out whether to model the plants or just go with a drawing of them on a single polygon since its 2.5d cel shading and I might be able to make them look 3d without having to spend polygons and UV time on em.

Took awhile to convert to Blender from Maya and stuff too but it was worth the effort.
Still not posting character art :)

Things are goin in engine now with textures at least so its lighting time. I got held up for a few months due to work at the power plant goin huge on overtime, plus crew changes, and a house hunt. I'll be moving up again soon in the company so I may stall out again soon.Especially when I move. Its been a busy week of back and forth with Q working on one very important character concept and some some stuff on one of the main story guys.
Fun fact...one of the more important dudes for once in a fighting game is black. Also one of the coolest in the game. Thats all I'll say.
 

Nuu

Banned
Got textures on the training stage now. Only a couple of character concepts left to finalize a bit over a two thirds are finalized in concepts. Textures and UV work coming along on cast. Goin into the other maps on the training stage to see what looks best in terms of specular, depth map, diffuse, yada yada yada just to test the look of the art in game. Same will need done on everyone else. Continuing the work on keyframe sketches to put into animation as I go. Aaaaaaaand being a complete wimp about getting around to redoing the UV work to put one dude into the game already whose old UV's I didn't like the layout of in Zbrush. Also being a wimp about unwrapping UV's on the first real stage that I finished modeling and posted to indie gaf. Here's an image thats sans some more stuff I need to add like trees and some plants that will glow as light sources in jars instead of normal lamps. Reason being is that first I wanna unwrap and texture the rest and then figure out whether to model the plants or just go with a drawing of them on a single polygon since its 2.5d cel shading and I might be able to make them look 3d without having to spend polygons and UV time on em.

Took awhile to convert to Blender from Maya and stuff too but it was worth the effort.
Still not posting character art :)

Things are goin in engine now with textures at least so its lighting time. I got held up for a few months due to work at the power plant goin huge on overtime, plus crew changes, and a house hunt. I'll be moving up again soon in the company so I may stall out again soon.Especially when I move. Its been a busy week of back and forth with Q working on one very important character concept and some some stuff on one of the main story guys.
Fun fact...one of the more important dudes for once in a fighting game is black. Also one of the coolest in the game. Thats all I'll say.
Another indie fighting game. Between this, Cerebrawl, and Traf, I'm very excited about the future. I really am curious about your 2.5D artstyle.
 

Tripon

Member
Hey, there's a new tournament nobody has heard before! Instant Legends!

Bally’s Atlantic City Hotel and Casino

September 23-25, 2016. Atlantic City, NJ, United States

5 Main Tournament Games. $30,000 initial kick-off pot bonus. Side Event Tournaments throughout the weekend. Vendors & Artist Alley.

Sounds great, let me register for this brand new tournament I never heard of!

Registration Policy
Our venue fee aka registration fee is a one-time fee that is paid to enter any tournament game (main or side events). Registration and tournament fees are non-refundable, non-transferrable. This fee goes into the development and labor cost of the event.

By filling out this form and entering 'Instant Legends 2016', I understand and acknowledge that tournament pool(s) may begin as early as September 23rd, 2016 at 1PM EST

Refund/Cancellation Policy
In the event of an event cancellation (health hazard, event attendance minimum not reached, a natural disaster, emergency venue circumstances or any other act of god) you are entitled to a full refund of the registration fee and main event tournament fee that you have purchased,

Wait, what's this about event attendance minimum not reached?

There is an event attendance minimum?

Being that this is our first major event with joint companies and we wanted to start off strong with a $30,000 pot bonus, we do have an event minimum of 2,000 participants. In the event the minimum is not reached by September 1st, the event will be postponed and participants will be refunded the expense of their registration entry fee. Stay up to date with event info including attendance numbers on our official and partnered social media accounts!

Oh.
http://instantlegends.com/
 

shaowebb

Member
Another indie fighting game. Between this, Cerebrawl, and Traf, I'm very excited about the future. I really am curious about your 2.5D artstyle.

Goal is to pull of the cel shading styles of Platinum Games stuff like Transformers Devastation or their new gorgeous Ninja Turtles game with an art style thats more my own thing. I tend to base my style off of stuff like The Darkness, Withblade, and old school McFarlane stuff. I have a baaaaaaaaad tendency to keep adding details to costumes because I just like detailing a lot.

This makes it just about impossible for me to consider hand drawn animation because of how long it'd take to animate some of the shit I design. Sucks because I LOVE the Skullgirls squash stretch and morphing stuff but I know I'd have to seriously tone down any cast based around those sorts of animations due to the issues that causes in 3d animation. Just a ton of extra work and potential handcuff glitching if I do anything that morphs or model swaps constantly. I'll do some things, but Skullgirls will forever hold a trophy in my heart for sticking to the pure drawn shit.

Sucks because I really enjoy hand animating stuff. I was working on a runner game in Construct 2 at one point. Here's an early unfinished rough of a run cycle I was gonna piece together for the character "Toku Dasher Kirin" before I just dumped the project and admitted I wanted to do a fighting game and needed to stop making excuses about why I should make other stuff instead.
us9XJsZ.gif



And no, this character is NOT in the fighting game or in any way related to it. Just venting about how I miss doin 2d because it was fun. Looking at some of our current cast though...fuck hand animating them.

Basically the art will be western style comicbooks but with some stuff from anime style fighting games to play with. This year I should at least be able to test things moving in the engine soon...how long it takes to make their moves function properly with all the mechanics let alone game systems to implement is another thing I couldn't really tell ya.
 
Bummer. NEO sounds completely uninteresting. I'll have to see the contrast/.

There aren't any good recent examples to suggest that they are wrong.

Edit: It's only really a problem when it gets tied into the "Capcom is dying" narrative. Which is just a newer spin on the Capcom sucks narrative because they haven't put out too many good games in a while.

Yeah.
 

Nuu

Banned
Goal is to pull of the cel shading styles of Platinum Games stuff like Transformers Devastation or their new gorgeous Ninja Turtles game with an art style thats more my own thing. I tend to base my style off of stuff like The Darkness, Withblade, and old school McFarlane stuff. I have a baaaaaaaaad tendency to keep adding details to costumes because I just like detailing a lot.

This makes it just about impossible for me to consider hand drawn animation because of how long it'd take to animate some of the shit I design. Sucks because I LOVE the Skullgirls squash stretch and morphing stuff but I know I'd have to seriously tone down any cast based around those sorts of animations due to the issues that causes in 3d animation. Just a ton of extra work and potential handcuff glitching if I do anything that morphs or model swaps constantly. I'll do some things, but Skullgirls will forever hold a trophy in my heart for sticking to the pure drawn shit.

Sucks because I really enjoy hand animating stuff. I was working on a runner game in Construct 2 at one point. Here's an early unfinished rough of a run cycle I was gonna piece together for the character "Toku Dasher Kirin" before I just dumped the project and admitted I wanted to do a fighting game and needed to stop making excuses about why I should make other stuff instead.
us9XJsZ.gif



And no, this character is NOT in the fighting game or in any way related to it. Just venting about how I miss doin 2d because it was fun. Looking at some of our current cast though...fuck hand animating them.

Basically the art will be western style comicbooks but with some stuff from anime style fighting games to play with. This year I should at least be able to test things moving in the engine soon...how long it takes to make their moves function properly with all the mechanics let alone game systems to implement is another thing I couldn't really tell ya.
Is doing 2D graphics that much more difficult than 3D? Or is it a "it depends" kind of thing? Like how much easier would you say Skullgirls would be if it was in Street Fighter V quality 3D?
 

Thores

Member
Goal is to pull of the cel shading styles of Platinum Games stuff like Transformers Devastation or their new gorgeous Ninja Turtles game with an art style thats more my own thing. I tend to base my style off of stuff like The Darkness, Withblade, and old school McFarlane stuff. I have a baaaaaaaaad tendency to keep adding details to costumes because I just like detailing a lot.

This makes it just about impossible for me to consider hand drawn animation because of how long it'd take to animate some of the shit I design. Sucks because I LOVE the Skullgirls squash stretch and morphing stuff but I know I'd have to seriously tone down any cast based around those sorts of animations due to the issues that causes in 3d animation. Just a ton of extra work and potential handcuff glitching if I do anything that morphs or model swaps constantly. I'll do some things, but Skullgirls will forever hold a trophy in my heart for sticking to the pure drawn shit.

Sucks because I really enjoy hand animating stuff. I was working on a runner game in Construct 2 at one point. Here's an early unfinished rough of a run cycle I was gonna piece together for the character "Toku Dasher Kirin" before I just dumped the project and admitted I wanted to do a fighting game and needed to stop making excuses about why I should make other stuff instead.
us9XJsZ.gif



And no, this character is NOT in the fighting game or in any way related to it. Just venting about how I miss doin 2d because it was fun. Looking at some of our current cast though...fuck hand animating them.

Basically the art will be western style comicbooks but with some stuff from anime style fighting games to play with. This year I should at least be able to test things moving in the engine soon...how long it takes to make their moves function properly with all the mechanics let alone game systems to implement is another thing I couldn't really tell ya.
This all sounds great. Thanks for the update!
 

shaowebb

Member
Is doing 2D graphics that much more difficult than 3D? Or is it a "it depends" kind of thing? Like how much easier would you say Skullgirls would be if it was in Street Fighter V quality 3D?

Ha! Skullgirls wouldn't be easier in SFV quality 3d. It wouldn't be Skullgirls at all. You see Skullgirls has characters morphing and tearing and squashing and splitting apart super fluidly. To do that in 3d requires making extra models, baking animations, more UV work and a lot more bug testing for glitches because its easy on disjointed models that split and morph between moves to handcuff glitch or get folks stuck and stretching and breaking like UMVC3 Ryu glitch stuff or more accurately Trials HD rubber band glitch stuff.

2d is harder because you have to hand animate every single frame of animation. While this gives you a ton more control to go as loud and fucking nuts as you want you still have to actually draw each frame. Plus every frame is actually about 3 to 4 seperate projects.
1. the rough
2. the linework (very tedious and very specific on line thickness aka line weighting. Can get pretty technical with brush settings for consistency)
3. the color flatting or big solid colors that make up your character palette
4 the shading layer for the shadows usually done with multiply settings on the layer mode
5 the highlights layer for the lit areas of the image usually done with screen settings on layer mode

Now compound all that with a VERY technical drawing. I'd say on a scale of 1 to 10 that Kirin image was like a 3 or 4 and thats without morphing and whatever into other shapes. Imagine someone with a shitload of beads or a complex texture on their clothing to keep consistent between frames. The more of the character that's covered in linework the more lines to keep up with between frames or it'll look really jumpy and offputting when it animates.

My shit...doesn't do well with 2d. Its too detailed on textures in most cases. Some in the amount of shapes. Armor can get tricky to keep track of in 2d animations if there are enough seams and patterns on it. Skullgirls is just amazing. When I saw Eliza's beads I flinched HARD. Those had to be a fucking pain to animate swinging constantly during her 1600+ frames of animations. My stuff is front loaded with a lot of technical cg but I only have to model it once. The tradeoff is that its animations take more work to even get squash and stretch let alone morph shapes.

This is why folks are still struggling to pull off something like say Darkstalkers in 3d. Its really really time consuming in 3d to make and it increases bugtesting and collision glitches if models do that stuff. Its why I sometimes wonder if I'll be forced to do all this and still have to just prerender the models as frames for my animations and fill in some stuff by hand in 2d after that. I wont know till I'm further in.
Screw this PS4.5 non sense. PC all the way next gen.

If those specs are true then that's not even a big enough upgrade. That's PS4.2 at best.
If folks dont stop changing specs on systems with iterative stuff like this and the rumored Xbox One models they may as well switch to PC. The one major advantage of consoles to developers is standardized specs and hardware. On PC there are shitloads of different graphics cards, processors and OS concerns for developers and its hard as shit to spot and fix all that stuff.

Here's hoping when I get a devkit its not fucking irrelevant before I release something at this rate.
I believe their company is now called Wavedash Games and their twitter is this: https://twitter.com/wewavedash

Woo! Awesome. Got me a new company to stalk on twitter. I'm still sad Airdash online died. When I played the demo and started screwing with the dash button it was super fast and awesomely easy to do stuff in. Sucks folks whined about the art and couldn't really get behind it. I liked their stuff and the gameplay felt like it could have been amazing.
 

Tripon

Member
Yeah, the Neo doesn't sound interesting at all. It's not worth upgrading, and I don't think it's the specs are enough to make a person say, "Yeah, I'll get this over the base model because it's $150 more expensive".
 

Nuu

Banned
Ha! Skullgirls wouldn't be easier in SFV quality 3d. It wouldn't be Skullgirls at all. You see Skullgirls has characters morphing and tearing and squashing and splitting apart super fluidly. To do that in 3d requires making extra models, baking animations, more UV work and a lot more bug testing for glitches because its easy on disjointed models that split and morph between moves to handcuff glitch or get folks stuck and stretching and breaking like UMVC3 Ryu glitch stuff or more accurately Trials HD rubber band glitch stuff.

2d is harder because you have to hand animate every single frame of animation. While this gives you a ton more control to go as loud and fucking nuts as you want you still have to actually draw each frame. Plus every frame is actually about 3 to 4 seperate projects.
1. the rough
2. the linework (very tedious and very specific on line thickness aka line weighting. Can get pretty technical with brush settings for consistency)
3. the color flatting or big solid colors that make up your character palette
4 the shading layer for the shadows usually done with multiply settings on the layer mode
5 the highlights layer for the lit areas of the image usually done with screen settings on layer mode

Now compound all that with a VERY technical drawing. I'd say on a scale of 1 to 10 that Kirin image was like a 3 or 4 and thats without morphing and whatever into other shapes. Imagine someone with a shitload of beads or a complex texture on their clothing to keep consistent between frames. The more of the character that's covered in linework the more lines to keep up with between frames or it'll look really jumpy and offputting when it animates.

My shit...doesn't do well with 2d. Its too detailed on textures in most cases. Some in the amount of shapes. Armor can get tricky to keep track of in 2d animations if there are enough seams and patterns on it. Skullgirls is just amazing. When I saw Eliza's beads I flinched HARD. Those had to be a fucking pain to animate swinging constantly during her 1600+ frames of animations. My stuff is front loaded with a lot of technical cg but I only have to model it once. The tradeoff is that its animations take more work to even get squash and stretch let alone morph shapes.

This is why folks are still struggling to pull off something like say Darkstalkers in 3d. Its really really time consuming in 3d to make and it increases bugtesting and collision glitches if models do that stuff. Its why I sometimes wonder if I'll be forced to do all this and still have to just prerender the models as frames for my animations and fill in some stuff by hand in 2d after that. I wont know till I'm further in.
I see. So say if Capcom wanted to do Street Fighter V in 2D? How much harder would that be? Does 2D always tend to be more difficult than 3D or is that only because video game technology haven't caught up with the detail in films yet? I've heard from animators that it is actually easier to do 2D than 3D in a large scale production.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom