MVCI seems to be doing a good job of killing MVCI.
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Fighting Game Headquarters |eSports| 4444 Life
- Thread starter notworksafe
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MVCI seems to be doing a good job of killing MVCI.
Yup. If Marvel Infinite fails then it would fail by its own accord.
SFV underperforming was not a result of there being some mythical SF killer out there, it did the damage all by itself.
katsubento
Member
Only Capcom can stop Capcom.
sixteen-bit
Member
CommandThrower
Member
Good video!
Personally, I really like the idea of Fantasy Strike's execution as a fighting game. I like the one button specials, I like the variety of command normals, the variety of playstyles, and I also like that the characters of Yomi(or Fantasy Strike, technically speaking) are now in their own fighting game.
The only thing I find off-putting are the "yomi counters", which are the damaging throw breaks done by just standing neutral and hitting no buttons or movement. I dislike how the yomi counters deal damage, even if it's only one pip of the opponent's life bar. The graphics and animations were also on the bad side at first, but I think they've gotten much better now that the game has progressed further in it's development.
I've heard a fair amount of folks in here say that they dislike Fantasy Strike for it's simplicity, but I think it's just fine. It's one of the few fighting games I could actually play with certain groups of friends, because they can actually get past the execution barrier and get into the decision and idea making stage. Rising Thunder was like this too, but Rising Thunder did have an execution barrier when it came to combos and advanced techniques, even if it was on the small side. Fantasy Strike has no such barrier, if not an extremely small one.
Hyperbole alert. I love ASW as much as the next guy but I don't see BlazBlue cross tag battle persona ultimax having an affect on MvCi. DBF is a possibility though but from what I've seen so far, although the art style is great, the gameplay seems very samey.
ZeroTheShadow
Member
Comboing into Supers is so useless in Mvci. Everyone is just gonna save their meter for some OD Doom/Ammy THC set ups & installs. Does Capcom really want a game where people never use supers?
More than that, they really want to avoid OTKs this time around. I think it's fine for regular supers, they would still get a lot of use, but level 3s kinda looking pointless right now!
Didn't that already happen to Street Fighter? You rarely see super used in IV and V. Though that would feel off in a VS game.
shaowebb
Member
Thats why other games go for a burst system instead of a 2bars of super for breakers setup and why its been that way for a LONG TIME. No one touch kill, but it mitigates the loss of hype supers. Plus they tend to tie the burst meters to the really good offensive options so if you dont use burst you get a whole bunch of tools. Burst is usually the last resort in anime now a days because you can bait it and it wastes so much of your potential damage and setups.
But hey I guess Anime never gets anything right so all hail 2 bar breakers eliminating most people goin for supers unless it kills again like in TVC.
You see supers all the time in SFV though. Wasn't that a complaint in the first season ? That characters could land 2 supers per round ?
ZeroTheShadow
Member
People use supers all the time in SFV but those games also have ex moves. For a Vs. Game comparison it'd be like ex moves in SF doing no damage. I see no reason to ever not use the bar you gained in a combo to just put you opponent in some BS THC bullshit on wake up. That's how I see the meta evolving. Also it will be crazy hard to make a comeback in this game. Gems are not X-factor and once one character dies there is no combo breaker and no support to extend combos or set shit up.
shaowebb
Member
Its just too slow for me. I dont know how selling that many frames of delay as a feature works anyhow. I'd need to get my hands on it to make any real evaluation on it though. I wish the character's movesets had more of their own identity though. Most unique thing I saw was the dude goin all Kirby and turning into a falling stone. Everyone else I'm able to go through and say, okay Millia's annoying rings, Slayers dash back then forward punch, Ken and Ryu stuff, something from World Heroes Hanzo wheel spinny air thing (never thought I'd see that stolen), and so on and so on. Utility is one thing but its straight up clones a lot of the look on attacks. At least theres a clockwork gear theme on a guy and pretty rainbows on the paint brush lady, but eh...it just borrows too much.
It doesn't feel like its adding anything so far. Just trying to make what already exists easier and that doesn't feel like it'll carry too far with the market beginning to overcrowd next year. It just wont get noticed IMO given it doesn't look at a glance like its different at all. Its not conveying its only difference (controls) at a glance and visually it doesn't have much of its own identity with its copy/paste attacks to capture imaginations.
If you can't stand out in a crowd dont expect folks to notice how different you are.
I don't know why I felt they don't show up much. Maybe it's the characters I follow like Balrog and the fact that I don't watch enough SF V matches?
Have a round end when one character dies, then!
Well, I believe Balrog got such insane damage output with few bars it's one of the characters you don't see much using his super.
ZeroTheShadow
Member
Probably should be this way with this game TBH. 2/3 rounds, 1 character dies KO.
LVL3s still do big damage raw. Probably as much as a regular combo based on how much damage Haggar was doing with his.
The whole THC set up after a combo is not going to be that common. Mostly because meter is not that common and we have stuff like cross up protection. Not to mention the scaling that would occur from said combo. It's better to just go for a regular reset after a combo which is good because people wanted a reset meta back. Meter is also better spent on combo breakers which costs a hefty 2 bars.
Comebacks are definitely going to be harder without a XF but that's also fine. It's 2 against 1 not 3 against 1 and the Stones still help especially the free lvl3. In general it's going to make comeback feel like actual comebacks.
The whole THC set up after a combo is not going to be that common. Mostly because meter is not that common and we have stuff like cross up protection. Not to mention the scaling that would occur from said combo. It's better to just go for a regular reset after a combo which is good because people wanted a reset meta back. Meter is also better spent on combo breakers which costs a hefty 2 bars.
Comebacks are definitely going to be harder without a XF but that's also fine. It's 2 against 1 not 3 against 1 and the Stones still help especially the free lvl3. In general it's going to make comeback feel like actual comebacks.
I found fantasy strike too sluggish and slow for my liking. It didn't have the fun back and forth I prefer for my fighters.
I also really dislike that they have a character that is basically slayer reskinned. Same moveset and animations basically from what I remember. Specials supers etc were almost 1 for 1 slayer. That really put me off.
I also really dislike that they have a character that is basically slayer reskinned. Same moveset and animations basically from what I remember. Specials supers etc were almost 1 for 1 slayer. That really put me off.
it's worth spending meter on supers but only for hp/hk/special/super hits because they don't fuck up the scaling so you can probably get one-touch-kills or close with optimized combos using them. lvl3s will easily push combos into kill ranges off these but otherwise they're really, really not worth it due to how much having meter fucks up the options for the other guy in the neutral game.
btw when a character dies you instantly get your vtrigger gem bar filled back up to activation status so it's heavily encouraged to just blow that shit to prevent comebacks or do it in bad situations. activating to punish blockstrings/whatever are going to be an extremely common thing, and there's nothing you can do to punish activations like marvel 3's cool shit because the activation itself has a fuckton insane amount of invulnerability. but if you try to make a comeback with vtrigger and then have a char die during that, you can immediately vtrigger again so expect to see a lot of 'oops my guy died' and then both players mashing the fuck out of vtrigger as to either continue the comeback attempt or prevent the other guy from making one and just closing the game out with their bullshit
as for the burst, it kinda seems like super shitty but idk. it's one of those things that goes into my personal take on how the game is headed tier/char-design wise but i was able to punish bursts on reaction with ironman/ultron extremely easily by just airdashing down and pressing HP/HK mid combo.
spending bar to lock someone down after a combo will probably happen early on but you can actually just put them in similar-enough reset situations without bar so that's probably how it's gonna turn out meter usage wise. my guess is that folks are gonna blow bar to extend lockdown to get more mixups after the inital no-bar mixup, and that's gonna be one of the factors that defines the good characters from the bad. esp. when you consider the bugfuck insane amount of meter actually built from hits (due to meter not being built anywhere else) - the risk/reward is most likely gonna be heavily skewed in the favor of blowin' that meter for most chars that aren't trash tier
also, about comebacks... ya'll are gonna be surprised at how good the time stone is for that, haha. it's basically xf2 in kill potency except you get to use it multiple times and it's significantly better for neutral bc of chaining specials.
i really hope everyone is gonna get the PC version 'cuz i wanna bust the shit out of them in the unplayable-for-me SF5 netcode the game is gonna have. nobody can deal with teleporting ultron, nobody
btw when a character dies you instantly get your vtrigger gem bar filled back up to activation status so it's heavily encouraged to just blow that shit to prevent comebacks or do it in bad situations. activating to punish blockstrings/whatever are going to be an extremely common thing, and there's nothing you can do to punish activations like marvel 3's cool shit because the activation itself has a fuckton insane amount of invulnerability. but if you try to make a comeback with vtrigger and then have a char die during that, you can immediately vtrigger again so expect to see a lot of 'oops my guy died' and then both players mashing the fuck out of vtrigger as to either continue the comeback attempt or prevent the other guy from making one and just closing the game out with their bullshit
as for the burst, it kinda seems like super shitty but idk. it's one of those things that goes into my personal take on how the game is headed tier/char-design wise but i was able to punish bursts on reaction with ironman/ultron extremely easily by just airdashing down and pressing HP/HK mid combo.
spending bar to lock someone down after a combo will probably happen early on but you can actually just put them in similar-enough reset situations without bar so that's probably how it's gonna turn out meter usage wise. my guess is that folks are gonna blow bar to extend lockdown to get more mixups after the inital no-bar mixup, and that's gonna be one of the factors that defines the good characters from the bad. esp. when you consider the bugfuck insane amount of meter actually built from hits (due to meter not being built anywhere else) - the risk/reward is most likely gonna be heavily skewed in the favor of blowin' that meter for most chars that aren't trash tier
also, about comebacks... ya'll are gonna be surprised at how good the time stone is for that, haha. it's basically xf2 in kill potency except you get to use it multiple times and it's significantly better for neutral bc of chaining specials.
i really hope everyone is gonna get the PC version 'cuz i wanna bust the shit out of them in the unplayable-for-me SF5 netcode the game is gonna have. nobody can deal with teleporting ultron, nobody
The Lone Dragon
Member
Of course! Because magically every new fighting game targets Capcom specifically and exclusively, while leaving every other fighting game completely intact.
direct_quote
Member
He probably meant just SF4. Rarely saw people use supers because most people used bars for FADC and ex moves. And Super took 4 bars of ex meter vs 3 in SFV (so you get supers faster). Ultras seemed to be used more as supers for characters who could combo into them (usually off FADC).
Also the MvC:i demo still has round indicators under health bar, but you only play once.. So I wonder if Capcom is still thinking about if they want to use rounds or not.
Karsticles
Member
Final Fantasy hasn't been good for like...15 years? But it's still among the highest selling RPGs based on name alone. Capcom will be around for a while making B-tier fighting games, and they will probably still outsell ASW unless DBFZ makes them a household name.
I don't see how a LoL fighter auto-wins esports, either. LoL players aren't going to flock to it because fighting games force you to own your L's.
ShinMaruku
Member
There seems to be this massive overselling of fighting games as something that would enjoy mass appeal....
This is probably like a lore thing at Capcom.
Zero has to be top tier and Vergil has to be DLC.
that explains why LoL has two Ls in the title.
Karsticles
Member
If companies ever realized mass appeal and traditional fighting games don't go together well in the long-term, they would probably stop making them.
Footage to show?
Karsticles
Member
"Sure as the DLC being late" - yes, I will continue watching this.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
They all need story modes I can play for 3 hours and forget about in 3 minutes
irfaanator
Banned
lore is the most important thing on gaf
Z
ZelbZelb
Unconfirmed Member
Here's some JoJo ASB:
Bruno VS Giorno
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOYnzL5N-4
Girono: Giorno's play-style revolves around playing a strong neutral game and building as much meter a possible. He's basically a ticking time-bomb until he gets 3 bars, combos into super, which guarantees a successful transformation into Gold Experience Requiem. GER has an unblockable, fast moving projectile that crumples the opponent, allowing GER to use his Morrigan-like air dash to chase them down and combo. GER also has the ability to control the opponent's soul, bringing back the will behind their actions back to 'point zero'. Basically, he can use a move that combo breaks practically everything and gives a free combo. This can be done in the air as a set-up, or be used as a combo extender. If you're at 70% health and Giorno gets GER, there's a good chance you loose. Unlike Pucci, Giorno can pull off his transformation every round, if he's good enough. Other tricks include: A dive kick that propels Giorno backwards, a tree that's invincible on start-up and acts as a double jump, and turning his brooches into animals that can be converted into air-tight set-ups by using meter.
Bruno: Bruno has crazy movement in stand-off, using his zipper slides and teleports to fling himself around the stage. TK'd zipper arm is a super-annoying poke that's largely safe and covers jumping. Does good damage on counter-hit. He's just a very solid, safe character that has lots of annoying pokes, and can do 60% with 2 bars of meter.
Bruno VS Giorno
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOYnzL5N-4
Girono: Giorno's play-style revolves around playing a strong neutral game and building as much meter a possible. He's basically a ticking time-bomb until he gets 3 bars, combos into super, which guarantees a successful transformation into Gold Experience Requiem. GER has an unblockable, fast moving projectile that crumples the opponent, allowing GER to use his Morrigan-like air dash to chase them down and combo. GER also has the ability to control the opponent's soul, bringing back the will behind their actions back to 'point zero'. Basically, he can use a move that combo breaks practically everything and gives a free combo. This can be done in the air as a set-up, or be used as a combo extender. If you're at 70% health and Giorno gets GER, there's a good chance you loose. Unlike Pucci, Giorno can pull off his transformation every round, if he's good enough. Other tricks include: A dive kick that propels Giorno backwards, a tree that's invincible on start-up and acts as a double jump, and turning his brooches into animals that can be converted into air-tight set-ups by using meter.
Bruno: Bruno has crazy movement in stand-off, using his zipper slides and teleports to fling himself around the stage. TK'd zipper arm is a super-annoying poke that's largely safe and covers jumping. Does good damage on counter-hit. He's just a very solid, safe character that has lots of annoying pokes, and can do 60% with 2 bars of meter.
Longest runs at EVO 2017:
https://twitter.com/SRKRanking/status/887379212503572482
Bonchan and Quackbot with some crazy runs.
https://twitter.com/SRKRanking/status/887379212503572482
Bonchan and Quackbot with some crazy runs.
i wish. i've been on the lookout for this guy who had a tripod setup and recorded a few matches that i played but i haven't been able to find it.
it pretty much just comes down to the lack of strong movement, not being able to upback and sogenmu being buffed lengthwise for some insane ass reason i don't comprehend. the increased delay on the clone actually makes it harder to block teleport shit and makes teleport + clone mixups even more visually incoherent than it is in 3. sogenmu + zangeki is even harder to deal with and leads to similar-ish to marvel 3 situations that otherwise only time stone would allow in the sense of allowing for several layers of mixups via extended fireball lockdown. there was a guy who played zero/strider who'd sogenmu, throw a fuckton of zangekis/buster charge zangeki (the screen covering thing) until you landed into them and then tag strider in for like 3 mixups on the crossup side where fireball wouldn't reflect back at.
in addition to that he still has most of his tools which are harder to get around without strong movement/assists to not put yourself in harm's way (on a more closed in screen, as well) and he still has teleport->buster for some fucking insane reason i can't comprehend so up close he's one of the few chars that has a true left/right mixup without having to leave the ground as part of his offensive strings. buster wallbounces and doesn't scale combos so he still does huge damage too off common confirms too, though it now loses to more stuff in a raw durability battle
also, ambiguous lightning on incoming is still a thing
Stepping into the MvCI thread is like a time capsule to Vanilla MvC3 pre-release on SRK, but with GAF style. Controls removed complexity, tri-dashing and moveent ruined, strange TvC comparisons, keepaway not viable, damage scaling, etc. It's nuts, everything's the same discussions lol
if you wanna mouth off about my observations then just call me out as i'm just stating things i've directly experienced w/ the game itself. it's showroom floor experience so it's ultimately meaningless in the long competitive run but i went out of my way to test specific stuff about the game's technical aspects b/c i was very curious on the mechanics of the game itself as to try and visualize where the game would be going competitively rather than just playing a few matches and only getting the broad feeling for the game like showroom stuff is meant to do
mamoniadas
Member
if mvci has crossup protection then how are you going to open people up? are we going back to mvc2's high/low game?
the crossup protection isn't that strong, thankfully. like dante's box jump normals will get blocked by it but most other kinds of airdash crossups are still super ambiguous. morrigan's mvc3 airdash type crossover j.H/HP stuff is still present and really strong! zero doing st.lp->teleport->buster still works as a mixup as well so that kinda stuff is still in the game if other chars have moves like that as well.
up/down dash in the same vein as nova still works for high/lows as mixup for 8way airdashers too, it's literally just airdash downforward and downback that have the higher height restriction on normals
supposedly captain marvel doesn't have the height restriction on her normals as well but i can't really verify it since i didn't play her but that's what folks are saying.
Gunslinger
Member
If MvC:I failed financially like SFv you think this is it for Capcom fgs? Back another Capcom dark ages? I have a bad feeling about mvc:i financial success. SFV not having arcade mode was found out pretty close to release date since most sane customers expect that to be the norm. But I see nothing but backlash for this game. For one good comment I see 100 bad comments. And bad comments are being thumbs up by thousands on YouTube.
Karsticles
Member
Nah. Capcom just had SFV break last year's record on ESPN. The games might falter at launch, but they have enough mental presence that they won't let this go.
Your observations and stuff is all fine (there's no problem with the stuff you said and changes I saw/played were similar to what you wrote up), but it's how most of the thread takes it since they either compare changes directly to MvC3 instead of something new with these attributes. I don't think the majority of people know how to take the information and parse it, so stepping into that thread feels like a huge repeat with the sky falling. I think even one guy complained about how both players can't activate that mode with their gems at the same time and didn't understand the thought behind it lol.
And of course I have nothing against complaints I've read about presentation and characters. Those things are important for a lot of people and the ball was dropped.
ah, alright. i didn't consider that you were talkin' about reactions to that since most of the stuff you mentioned hasn't really been brought up by other folks independently
once again i'm the victim of my own foot-in-mouth idiocy
ShinMaruku
Member
I think most of them have seen that, and the ones who still make them either like NRS or the 3d games know exactly what they can get from the people who buy them that they can make a profit either by massive sales like NRS or by having a well funded arcade exeprience with premium pricing like Tekken or a robust free to play model like DOA supported by DLC like you have never seen.
If developers have those things in mind when making a game, they can make a good fighting game, but you have to invest in those avenues, or like what the cult is doing it's probably not a traditional fighter and there is no guarantee that the people who pine for that shit will like what the different game is.
There is ample space for a developer and a fighting game to do in this market, you have to engage differently, this is not the same model that other games work on.
LucidMomentum
Member
Bayo got a whole patch for herself Smash bros need to C H I L L