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Fighting Game Headquarters |eSports| 4444 Life

A

Astarte

Member
FreeMeal said:
Here's some JoJo ASB:

Bruno VS Giorno
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOYnzL5N-4

Girono: Giorno's play-style revolves around playing a strong neutral game and building as much meter a possible. He's basically a ticking time-bomb until he gets 3 bars, combos into super, which guarantees a successful transformation into Gold Experience Requiem. GER has an unblockable, fast moving projectile that crumples the opponent, allowing GER to use his Morrigan-like air dash to chase them down and combo. GER also has the ability to control the opponent's soul, bringing back the will behind their actions back to 'point zero'. Basically, he can use a move that combo breaks practically everything and gives a free combo. This can be done in the air as a set-up, or be used as a combo extender. If you're at 70% health and Giorno gets GER, there's a good chance you loose. Unlike Pucci, Giorno can pull off his transformation every round, if he's good enough. Other tricks include: A dive kick that propels Giorno backwards, a tree that's invincible on start-up and acts as a double jump, and turning his brooches into animals that can be converted into air-tight set-ups by using meter.

Bruno: Bruno has crazy movement in stand-off, using his zipper slides and teleports to fling himself around the stage. TK'd zipper arm is a super-annoying poke that's largely safe and covers jumping. Does good damage on counter-hit. He's just a very solid, safe character that has lots of annoying pokes, and can do 60% with 2 bars of meter.
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hey

i appreciate you
 
Z

ZelbZelb

Unconfirmed Member
Astarte said:
hey

i appreciate you
Click to expand...

Aw, thanks. Sometimes I have to wait a while so more content can be released. I try to be picky as I know you guys have high standards. I should be good for the next few weeks.

I actually streamed the game today, but not a single person was playing. Online is pretty much 100% dead unless you set a play-date with someone on Discord.
 
M

mamoniadas

Member
Seyavesh said:
the crossup protection isn't that strong, thankfully. like dante's box jump normals will get blocked by it but most other kinds of airdash crossups are still super ambiguous. morrigan's mvc3 airdash type crossover j.H/HP stuff is still present and really strong! zero doing st.lp->teleport->buster still works as a mixup as well so that kinda stuff is still in the game if other chars have moves like that as well.

up/down dash in the same vein as nova still works for high/lows as mixup for 8way airdashers too, it's literally just airdash downforward and downback that have the higher height restriction on normals

supposedly captain marvel doesn't have the height restriction on her normals as well but i can't really verify it since i didn't play her but that's what folks are saying.
Click to expand...

hmm ok, seeing footage of how dynamic the tagging system can be seemed like it's going to be a left/right mixup game like mvc3 was. So the crossup protection system seemed weird.
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
Pretty exhausting work day @_@

6+ Hours of Vampire Savior/Darkstalkers 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vw9h0Rhxkw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzFVe5B8SOI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoxzif7S9HA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKJTRb3MLHU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isC4MzE-gZU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW-hWbujqZI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RviFEOFXnrQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2Sb2GWmoXw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYE9HUTeOoQ

Fatal Fury 2 Special World Cup 2017 Qualifiers+Finals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plYmE1gHe5s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2fjwbGo5bE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SRALhNqcio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWvLsVlZSxM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCLxZ4rkNMA

Pokken matches
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_WZuwi7Zu4

Street Fighter EX 2 Plus matches
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs0hAO1jX_s

Karnov's Revenge matches
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxfXUNE271M

Samurai Spirits/Sho(w)down matches
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVHRufuK1ws

Real Bout Fatal Fury matches
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMXBVBhv6HY

Virtua Fighter 3 matches
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c6mYKROnaA

90 mins. of Under Night InBirth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOpRbpXVGBo

90 mins. of BlazBlue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaTgDYYxXS8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHu6lQ38aLM

90 mins. of Koihime Enbu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qafNWhDo3N8
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Line_HTX said:
Did they really have a whole giant list of patch notes for Bayonetta?
Click to expand...

Yeah. Basically, her Witch Time dodge was really OP because it had no diminishing returns (you could spam it and get lucky KOs when you got the guess right), and she could combo people from 0 -> death in certain situations. Pretty much everyone died to two of her combos. She was pretty broken on release.
 
N

NEO0MJ

Member
Karsticles said:
Yeah. Basically, her Witch Time dodge was really OP because it had no diminishing returns (you could spam it and get lucky KOs when you got the guess right), and she could combo people from 0 -> death in certain situations. Pretty much everyone died to two of her combos. She was pretty broken on release.
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What's funny is that at the time people said that they ruined her after those nerfs. Now they're complaining that she's broken XD
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
mamoniadas said:
hmm ok, seeing footage of how dynamic the tagging system can be seemed like it's going to be a left/right mixup game like mvc3 was. So the crossup protection system seemed weird.
Click to expand...
The cross up protection is probably for those ambiguous "not cross up cross ups" that Marvel 3 had a lot of. Stuff like Haggar getting under you, using Violent Axe which hit you from behind but Haggar was still in front of you in the corner.
 
F

FSLink

Banned
NEO0MJ said:
What's funny is that at the time people said that they ruined her after those nerfs. Now they're complaining that she's broken XD
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Yep, I already was watching ikep on Twitter at the time, and I'm pretty sure most of the combos ikep was doing pre-patch are basically standard now.

For as strong as the Japanese meta is in Smash a lot of the playerbase seems to ignore it exists and don't study footage. As soon as I saw ikep play post-patch Bayo I knew she'd be fine.

sixteen-bit said:
Do you think Nintendo will patch Smash on WiiU again? Maybe they can use a rebalancing to entice double dippers on Switch.
Click to expand...

They actually just patched it last week! But only for amiibo support for Corrin (Cloud and Bayo already worked). They could have easily threw in a balance patch in there but I think the dev team is pretty satisfied with the balance at the moment. I wouldn't expect any changes for Smash 4 unless a Switch version comes out.
 
P

Professor Beef

Banned
NEO0MJ said:
What's funny is that at the time people said that they ruined her after those nerfs. Now they're complaining that she's broken XD
Click to expand...

Honestly I was one of them complaining she had her knees cut off, but yeah it's clear she's still fine. If I ever get the free time (and money) to go to tournaments again, I should try picking her up for Charizard's bad matches.
 
Z

Zissou

Member
sixteen-bit said:
Y'all yeah about Fantasy Strike?
Thoughts?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DOtyseKkIc
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I've played quite a bit of it. It's got probably the lowest barrier to entry possible for something that still plays like a traditional fighting game, and I've enjoyed it so far (I've probably sunk 40 or 50 hours into it at this point, mostly local vs, and some online recently which the newest build introduced). It has some smart ideas- that they've found ways to have one button specials with invincibility that don't destroy the game is pretty amazing IMO, and the moves are so multipurpose that it offsets some of the complexity lost due to smaller movesets relative to other fighting games. From a gameplay perspective, there are some issues that could arise, and I'm curious how they'll handle them. I don't know that the game will have a high enough skill ceiling to make it interesting for long term tournament play, and there doesn't seem like there's enough to any given character to allow a player's personality/playstyle to shine through. The ease with which you can learn a character is also potentially a double edged sword- it makes the game extremely approachable, but if played in more competitive context, I can see the losing player counter picking after every single match. Not gameplay related, but the complaints about being too overt in its use of movesets from other games are pretty hard to argue against. Ultimately, the game does accomplish what I assume to be its main goal, which is making the actual strategy and decision-making of playing and enjoying fighting games immediately accessible to anybody.
 
B

Belker

Member
Zissou said:
Ultimately, the game does accomplish what I assume to be its main goal, which is making the actual strategy and decision-making of playing and enjoying fighting games immediately accessible to anybody.
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First, I like your SFV videos.

Second, I think Sirlin's goal is more about making everything work in service of the mindgame, with the mindgame being easily accessible almost being a side-effect of that.

I've never played at a high level, but from my understanding, the better you get, the less execution becomes a factor. So then it's mindgames again.

If there's any truth to that, how could it be made interesting for long-term tournament play? More moves, more characters. What's the mechanical change?

You've played it, I haven't. You can give me an insight I wouldn't have otherwise.
 
Z

Zissou

Member
Belker said:
First, I like your SFV videos.

Second, I think Sirlin's goal is more about making everything work in service of the mindgame, with the mindgame being easily accessible almost being a side-effect of that.

I've never played at a high level, but from my understanding, the better you get, the less execution becomes a factor. So then it's mindgames again.

If there's any truth to that, how could it be made interesting for long-term tournament play? More moves, more characters. What's the mechanical change?

You've played it, I haven't. You can give me an insight I wouldn't have otherwise.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the compliment on the videos. "Mind games" is a pretty nebulous term IMO, but I think the game certainly tests reading and conditioning your opponent, spacing, reactions, knowledge of frame advantage etc., just the same as other fighting games. The thing is, even with my worry about the skill ceiling, I don't think should try and add things to the game- anything that you add/change could jeopardize the game's design goals. I've personally got at least one person very interested in getting into more complex games through fantasy strike, and the other people I've shown it to responded positively (even if they're not ever going to play guilty gear or whatever). If sirlin can convince people to give it a chance, I think the game can absolutely be a gateway drug to other games with higher barriers to entry. A big hurdle is that while I agree with lots of Sirlin's thinking on game design, he needs people to help him with marketing/PR and such. Based on how the crowd funding campaign is going, he's going to need some luck/help if he's going to make this work.
 
B

Belker

Member
Zissou said:
Thanks for the compliment on the videos. "Mind games" is a pretty nebulous term IMO, but I think the game certainly tests reading and conditioning your opponent, spacing, reactions, knowledge of frame advantage etc., just the same as other fighting games. The thing is, even with my worry about the skill ceiling, I don't think should try and add things to the game- anything that you add/change could jeopardize the game's design goals. I've personally got at least one person very interested in getting into more complex games through fantasy strike, and the other people I've shown it to responded positively (even if they're not ever going to play guilty gear or whatever). If sirlin can convince people to give it a chance, I think the game can absolutely be a gateway drug to other games with higher barriers to entry. A big hurdle is that while I agree with lots of Sirlin's thinking on game design, he needs people to help him with marketing/PR and such. Based on how the crowd funding campaign is going, he's going to need some luck/help if he's going to make this work.
Click to expand...

You’re right that ‘mindgames’ is a bit nebulous. But you summarised it nicely by talking about reading and conditioning your opponent.

I think I’m having trouble with the idea that we’ve got a game that purports to give people an easier way to experience that ‘pure’ aspect of fighting games.

Yet, you’ve played it a lot and you feel its could be a gateway game to more complex titles. Which kind of means players starting on a path again to get to that pure aspect.

It’s something I’m not quite able to compute yet.

I’m thinking aloud, but I wonder if mindgames aren’t as rewarding if we haven’t had to work to implement them – barrier to entry - or there aren’t enough different options to give us interesting choices and to allow us to feel like we can be creative in how we play.
 
P

Parallax Scroll

Banned
Belker said:
You’re right that ‘mindgames’ is a bit nebulous. But you summarised it nicely by talking about reading and conditioning your opponent.

I think I’m having trouble with the idea that we’ve got a game that purports to give people an easier way to experience that ‘pure’ aspect of fighting games.

Yet, you’ve played it a lot and you feel its could be a gateway game to more complex titles. Which kind of means players starting on a path again to get to that pure aspect.

It’s something I’m not quite able to compute yet.

I’m thinking aloud, but I wonder if mindgames aren’t as rewarding if we haven’t had to work to implement them – barrier to entry - or there aren’t enough different options to give us interesting choices and to allow us to feel like we can be creative in how we play.
Click to expand...

It's worth trying. Props to Sirlin for that.
 
P

pizzacat

Banned
FreeMeal said:
Next time I'll show a cool Valentine video I found. I'll see if there's some Yoshikage stuff, too.
Click to expand...

2af915882260fdb89538d1610e1d9baa.svg
 
B

Belker

Member
Anne said:
Real talk tho, fuck David Sirlin. He's a hack that doesn't deserve to be working on more games.
Click to expand...

Disclaimer - I interviewed the man and still drop him email occasionally, though I don't track his every move.

Obviously you don't care for him, but I'm a bit confused about your statement about not 'deserving' to work on games.

He's developed and published games himself and is trying to crowdfund other ones. As much as we might dislike someone's work, if they find way to fund projects from their own efforts and people willing to invest (who get what's promised) I'm not sure what deserving has to do with it.

At that point we have to vote with our wallets; we show who we believe is deserving by giving them money, or not. Really, that's the only way we have to pass judgement on someone's work.

EDIT

People's thoughts on his game design philosophy and choices aside, has he failed to deliver on projects? Not a trick question, I don't know if he has or not.
 
broz0rs

broz0rs

Member
it's surprising to see peeps still rail on Sirlin. I mean, the only substantial thing that he's done in the FGC was take a legendary but old game and attempted to balance it. He patted himself on the back a bit too much, but this is so damn long ago. All his other stuff, you can't really fault a man for trying out stuff.
 
R

Rice-Eater

Member
CO_Andy said:
lol at Japan's measly $895 esports prize money

895... wasn't that the Canada Cup subscription fee?
Click to expand...

What Japanese tournament is paying out $895? It's normally nothing, so this is pretty good progress.

This does however make me think about what EVO Japan's prize is going to be. Like do you really get nothing more than a trophy and a pat on the back for winning a 1,000+ man Tekken or SFV tourney?
 
N

NEO0MJ

Member
Rice-Eater said:
What Japanese tournament is paying out $895? It's normally nothing, so this is pretty good progress.

This does however make me think about what EVO Japan's prize is going to be. Like do you really get nothing more than a trophy and a pat on the back for winning a 1,000+ man Tekken or SFV tourney?
Click to expand...

In the end we play for fun, nothing more. We shouldn't need monetary incentive to join a tournament.
 
M

mnz

Unconfirmed Member
NEO0MJ said:
In the end we play for fun, nothing more. We shouldn't need monetary incentive to join a tournament.
Click to expand...
Well, most people do. A few want to make a living off of it.
But that really shouldn't be the main focus, so who cares.
 
K

KidA Seven

Member
Rice-Eater said:
What Japanese tournament is paying out $895? It's normally nothing, so this is pretty good progress.

This does however make me think about what EVO Japan's prize is going to be. Like do you really get nothing more than a trophy and a pat on the back for winning a 1,000+ man Tekken or SFV tourney?
Click to expand...

Plus Japan usually has more entrants for team tournaments so Evo Japan is interesting to me for those two reasons. I want to see how it affects entrants.
 
M

mnz

Unconfirmed Member
This GGPO EVO panel doesn't have enough views.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9JTIn1SVQ4

Especially the part starting at 19min with a good explanation of how rollback netcode works, which a lot of people still don't understand.

Later on (around 31:20) there is an explanation about "the rift", a problem SFV has.
 
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