-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Fighting Games Weekly | April 14-20 | Some Permutation of "Daigo is Da Bess"
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
He's only doing it to teach and will never compete again.
Said the only reason he's playing it again is because it's what people like and he still has stuff he can teach people about it.
Professor Beef
Banned
I beat a Viper in a FT5, and he said my Hawk had too much pressure and made him think too much. I told him I played that way because Viper players have no footsies. He opened his mouth to protest, then took a second to think, then nodded and shook my hand lol
This is so helpful for people like me who have no real footsies! This is definitely something that will take me a while to really understand and start doing.
That sounds like a viper player. Its also the hardest thing to do with viper.
sixteen-bit
Member
Rice-Eater
Member
"Hard" relative to doing only specials.
Professor Beef
Banned
2012
Rice-Eater
Member
Damn, I wanted you to troll them with the new Condor Spire. But I assume USF4 lines are too long for people to hold a long set. I never bothered to try SFxT back at EVO 2011 because their was always like 10+ people in each line and I think it was a FT1 only.
Professor Beef
Banned
Lines weren't that long for Ultra. I would only play a couple against Rolento before I'd get annoyed. I would look for a Marvel station just to wash away the salt instead of induce it.
Well, it's not like most Viper players don't play footsies with the character because they're ignorant of the concept or choose not to: she simply lacks the tools. This is why I look forward to Ultra. The changes to her cr. mk, st. hk (and cr. FP?) will help add that dimension to her game. I actually play footsies with current Viper, but it's often to my detriment.
*shrug*
And Viper generally struggles against grapplers. T. Hawk moreso than Gief because of his neutral buttons. Not not trying to take anything away from your W, just saying.
*shrug*
And Viper generally struggles against grapplers. T. Hawk moreso than Gief because of his neutral buttons. Not not trying to take anything away from your W, just saying.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection is still going to be up for a little while, right?
Anyone want to get a few matches of Bleach DS in before it's gone for good?
(No? I'll just move along, then...)
Anyone want to get a few matches of Bleach DS in before it's gone for good?
(No? I'll just move along, then...)
I think you're mistaking "tool to play footsies with" with "button that can't be beat in the mid range".
Viper can play footsies just fine with her walk speed and cr.fp.
Hell, even her cr.lk is useful apparently.
Rice-Eater
Member
Great, so she gets better footsies and her annoying ass burn kick stays intact. I wish they had nerfed the hell out of it so it can't be used as a reversal anymore. But with that and EX RF, she'll probably be very good in Ultra.
Lol, every time I think about Viper's normals or Viper's footsies, I think about Dath Punch.
I don't know how effective the move actually is for Viper players, but it seemed pretty useful to me.
Edit: Oh, that's her cr.HP. I thought it was her cr.MP. Dath uses cr.MP a bit too but I definitely mixed up the moves lol.
Juicebox_FGC
Member
Yeah I don't want to compete in SF4. Just accepting that I will not be a competitive player in KOF due to circumstance, so I'm choosing to have my stream be all about the teaching rather than practice for a game I won't win.
I think your mistaking "Viper's footsies are so bad because her gameplay focus isn't footsies" for "Viper can't play footsies". Any character can play footsies. If you made a character whose only attack was standard throw - that character could play footsies. But that character would undoubtedly be the worst character in the game in that regard.
cr. FP is an 8 frame startup and while its reach is great and rewards are spectacular it will get stuffed more often than anything else. To be able to use it even as a simple counter poke requires a good sense of when a particular opponent likes to press buttons and if your opponent has good reactions, you'll find it getting beaten a lot. It's simply fails as a general footsie tool, despite the fact that it can be used as such if the Viper player needs it. Were they to reduce its startup by one frame or increase its reach by a pixel it would be perfect.
I'm not gonna lie, considering that Delayed Wakeup isn't the deterrence to Vortexes that we thought it would be, I agree. She might be ACTUALLY stupid in Ultra (and not salty-stupid). In fact, I've always wanted Capcom to nerf the Burn Kick damage and give Viper good neutral buttons since Super. Not just because it would stop the whining from people incapable of blocking repetitive, archaic, and obvious crossup setups - but because giving Viper footsies makes her a WAY more interesting character than she already is. As long as Burn Kick gives knockdown, the damage could be 5 points for all I care. I just want to manipulate my opponent with normals and block string pressure.
Professor Beef
Banned
Nope. It's usually Knuckle or throw.
or IA burnkick / ex burnkick
sixteen-bit
Member
or EX seismo
feinted into throw
This is garbage. Are you looking to have a discussion are not? You're just feeding preconceived notions into your argument-generator and it's spewing vomit. I never said cr.FP was "bad". Far from it. It's a great button and I implied as much in that post. It's just a lower-tier footsie button for quantifiable reasons. Point-blank. The move is 8-frames in startup. An attack most definitely does not have to be executed on the same frame to beat it when there's a plethora of 3-4 frame normals in this game.
No you don't have to play footsies with Viper, but what Viper has to do to succeed isn't what this tangent is premised on. I'm talking about what could make her more interesting to play (for me). Were she capable of playing a solid ground-game it would add another dimension to her play.
If you're just going to make up your mind from the start about how Viper players think and approach Street Fighter like every other tired drone on the subject of this character please don't waste my time.
theprodigy
Member
what if UMvC3 is behind Melee AND Injustice
just kidding no way that happens
remember the USF4=2x UMvC3 thing for CEO?
turns out Melee was also ahead of UMvC3, dunno about Injustice though lol
ibelieve616 ‏@ibelieve616 Apr 15
@CEOJebailey how's melee doing?
Alex Jebailey ‏@CEOJebailey Apr 16
@ibelieve616 in 2nd place out of 12 games. Very well
From lack of local players? I think I remember you saying something along those lines.
I'm glad we agree with each other. She can play decent footsies, but the allure of burn kicking people's normals is just too strong. Footsies are more in the mind than in the buttons, just because your normal is "low tier" doesn't mean you are unable to use it against better buttons. Ultra isn't going to change a thing for players who don't play the footsie game now.
Juicebox_FGC
Member
My issue is the same as PR Rog's issue. I won't be able to beat MadKof, Reynald, or other players of that calibur because I am not in an environment where I can improve. I've reached a plateau in skill that I cannot surpass by playing online against terrible players, or even against excellent players. Gotta play the real game if I want to keep improving, and that's not possible in Oregon.
I've been away for a few days and can't muster up enough energy to go through 20+ pages.
What did I miss?
Isn't 2O2F next week? Or am I wrong here?
Also, for those watching NCR, I hear they have some sort of player stats. What kind of stuff are we talking about? Any info on source?
What did I miss?
Isn't 2O2F next week? Or am I wrong here?
Also, for those watching NCR, I hear they have some sort of player stats. What kind of stuff are we talking about? Any info on source?
Unfortunate :/ it's a common issue too, we keep it having it happen with ASW games. One of the things stopping me from really going in right now.
Luckily the 2 other fighting game players in my town play Guilty Gear.
direct_quote
Member
Definitely my goal to go to at least one evo before the games I play become obsolete..
Are they at a high enough level where you can play the ins and outs of the game and keep improving? Not trying to discount people but that's a big issue in almost every non Capcom game in NA. You can find a couple people here and there, but not the kind of people to push to the top.
Rice-Eater
Member
If all that isn't bad enough, you can't even bait her without the possibility of taking a huge risk
Me: I'm going to bait HP TK by back dashing
VIper: EX seismo > Ultra
Me: I'm going to bait EX seismo with neutral jump HK
Viper: HP TK > Ultra
Me: Guess I'll try to throw this time to beat EX seismo
Viper: Burn kick
Me: FUCK IT, EX DP TO BEAT EVERYTHING
Viper: EX seismo, oh I timed it perfectly to completely avoid his move, time to punish
I feel like the only thing I can do is to stand close enough to her, but not close enough for HP TK or throw so I can condition her into back dashing, doing nothing, or going for BK. At least that limits her options lol.
But enough complaining about Viper. I only get salty when thinking about it. She blows up everybody except high level players. And I'll never reach that point where I can easily deal with her BS and shenanigans. If I run into her, I'll probably just counter pick with Yun and try to annoy her as much as she annoys me.
We're around the same level thankfully so we level each other up. We're more like training partners than competition honestly.
SolarKnight
Member
1(us) or 2? I suck but I really need to get some last matches on that and JUS before they're gone.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Preferably 2 US, but I have both versions of both games.
SolarKnight
Member
Well I only have 1 US :/
It'd have to be some other day during the week tho but I'd definitely like to play
Check your PM please!
Rice-Eater
Member
I know that, I'm mainly referring to meaty pressure. And my character doesn't give me many opportunities to safe jump. Besides that EX burn kick trades with my safe jump OS EX DP, so I don't have a option that beats all her options either.
Things would have been better in USF4 because I can tatsu sweep her. But now DWU makes it a risk. I can't low profile her BK that well either since Evil Ryu's low forward doesn't work that well for that. I don't have much confidence in the match up. Like I said, I'll probably go to Yun if I run into her at a tournament.
Professor Beef
Banned
I've only really seen Seth Killian in PR mode, so hearing him at NCR cursing up a storm was quite a sight. :lol
Professor Beef
Banned
FGW | kbrad sux
k bad
Deckard Cain
Banned
Fighting Games Weekly| Did you know? Never bet against Justin Wong.