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Fighting Games Weekly | April 7-13 | Smash our expectations

S

SimSimIV

Member
kirblar said:
Would bet money on Sim being bottom tier not due to competitive balance but due to "Sim makes lower level/casual players not want to play anymore."
Click to expand...

Pretty much this too. Sim is a noob killer. You can win against beginners with only Hp and b.Hk, and combo in to lp flame->Fireball tp is an infinite. But when it comes to high level play, Sim struggles even at his optimal ranges, because he can be counterpoked and people don't respect him because they know they can afford to take lots of trades to get in.

Sim has no way to deal with frame traps. In very many cases his best punish is a grab (which in ultra will lead to weaker mix ups). His drills are unsafe on hit unless you hit the opponent's toes.

Focus attacks are one of his biggest banes and it will be easier to deal with in Ultra with 2 hitting mk, but that button can be crouched and Counter poked at the right ranges from most characters.
 
A

alstein

Member
SimSimIV said:
Pretty much this too. Sim is a noob killer. You can win against beginners with only Hp and b.Hk, and combo in to lp flame->Fireball tp is an infinite. But when it comes to high level play, Sim struggles even at his optimal ranges, because he can be counterpoked and people don't respect him because they know they can afford to take lots of trades to get in.

Sim has no way to deal with frame traps. In very many cases his best punish is a grab (which in ultra will lead to weaker mix ups). His drills are unsafe on unless you hit the opponent's toes.

Focus attacks are one of his biggest banes and it will be easier to deal with in Ultra with 2 hitting mk, but that button can be crouched and Counter poked at the right ranges from most characters.
Click to expand...

The thing is even a bottom tier Sim isn't going to be much worse at scrub killing.

What I wish they'd do with Sim is give him his ST Drills/Mummy.
 
I

ian to the max

Member
ismk said:
Here's the full changelog of all characters for USF4 - http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...g-capcom-all-characters-and-system-mechanics/ The page currently doesn't have all characters but is going to be updated.
Click to expand...

eUJ2EOr.gif
 
C

CountBlack

Member
Damn, Eventhubs lost the race for the fastest translation.

Time to unbookmark.

Dee Jay

Far Standing MP start-up reduced from 7F to 6F
Far Standing HP late active frame hit now floats air opponents on counter-hit
Crouching LK start-up reduced from 5F to 4F
Crouching MP hitbox expanded forward
Crouching MK damage increased from 70 to 80
Crouching HP hitbox expanded forward
Knee Shot (2+LK during forward or back jump) hit stun increased by 3F
Air Slasher chip damage increased from 12 to 15
L Double Rolling Sobat changed from -5 to -3 on block
M Double Rolling Sobat 1st hit hit stun increased by 2F, changed from +6 to +8 on hit after EX Focus-cancel → Forward Dash
EX Machine Gun Upper start-up reduced from 12F to 6F; full invincibility changed from 1-4F to 1-2F, midsection invinciblity changed from 5-9F to 3-4F, above the chest invincbility changed from 10-31F to 5-25F, now throw invincble from 1-7F; changed from -5 to -8 on block (-9 to -12 on block with mash); 1st hit hitbox slightly expanded forward; floats the opponent higher on hit, with or without mash; all hits can be EX Focus-cancelled on hit or block, with or without mash
Click to expand...

...

sf4onlineroster.jpg
Click to expand...
 
K

kirblar

Member
Please bring back the Ken banner for next week, Enzo.

One interesting note from Dawgtanian's twitter- it definitely sounds like there's potential for balance tweaks when the console edition and Decapre hit. Although I'd suspect it'd be reserved for "necessary nerfs only."
 
S

SimSimIV

Member
kirblar said:
Please bring back the Ken banner for next week, Enzo.

One interesting note from Dawgtanian's twitter- it definitely sounds like there's potential for balance tweaks when the console edition and Decapre hit. Although I'd suspect it'd be reserved for "necessary nerfs only."
Click to expand...

I can't find that on his twitter:eek:
 
K

kirblar

Member
SimSimIV said:
I can't find that on his twitter:eek:
Click to expand...
David Hinds ‏@dawgtanian Apr 7

"@Lejugemalgache: Can we hope to have the changelog before the usf4 japan arcade release ?" > we will release info right up to console vers.
Click to expand...
Asked for clarification once I saw it, but definitely feels like Arcade is basically "near-release open beta" right now based on that statement.
 
H

Horseress

Member
SimSimIV said:
He is getting slightly buffed, but the ex blast buff is not noticable (according to UD), his lk and mk blast buffs are insignificant since they still won't be reliable as reactionary anti airs.

He is getting a nerf to st.mp as well as the buff.

He is getting ex blast hard knock down removed, which was one of his only ways to set up offense as well as to escape from the corner

His U2 buff is very slight and isn't noticable (according to the plauers that have tested it)

He will be one of the chracters to benefit the most from Wultra, but he does fall in to the "less damage" category

He will benefit from delayed wake up, but will suffer from it as well, since his fireball traps will be messed up.

All in all he is getting more buffs than nerfs, but they aren't very significant. And as you say, both Arturo, Champ, UD and me, pretty much thinks he is a bottom 5 character. I know a lot of people don't think that, but if you gather tierlists from top players all around, they all feel they og even or beat Sim.
Click to expand...

st.mp is not getting nerfred:
"Standing MK changed to two hits; damage reduced from 60 to 40*30, stun changed from 100 to 50*50"

the damage is not actually being reduced, it's only divided between the two hits, and now it does 70 instead of 60, so it's another buff.
The lk yoga blast buff will make it a better anti-air because it will be harder to trade with it (less hurtbox).

But I can agree that he needs more, would love to hear from Combofiend what's his "plan" with Sim and how he thinks people should play him with these changes.

kirblar said:
Would bet money on Sim being bottom tier not due to competitive balance but due to "Sim makes lower level/casual players not want to play anymore."
Click to expand...

I agree, till you get the hang of it, it's pretty tough, probably the hardest street fighter match-up to get used to

Seasoned Badger said:
link to restream so I can watch the archive, thx.
Click to expand...

They were taken down, no more links =/
 
H

Huw_Dawson

Member
I wonder who will have the infinite on Abel this time? :p

I'm still not 100% happy with Rufus' changes, but I will hold my (damage) loss to my chest if it means people can't blow Ex Messiah up on hit as often. Otherwise I think we're going to see the two unloved stepchildren of SSF4 get a little more popular, and a lot of bandwagoning to Elena. We'll see how things settle for the console release.

I'm going to be at Dreamhack Summer in June, which I believe will be the first Ultra major in Europe. That should be fun.
 
W

Westlo

Member
Can someone clarify about ken's f.srk fadc

EH

Heavy Shoryuken can now be FADC'd on second hit during opponent's block.

USD

H Shoryuken 2nd hit can no longer be EX Focus Cancelled on block

Discussion on srk forums...

"id go with the srk translation."

They're wrong this time though. it says "Gaado" in the change list, not "hitto".
 
S

SimSimIV

Member
Horseress said:
st.mp is not getting nerfred:
"Standing MK changed to two hits; damage reduced from 60 to 40*30, stun changed from 100 to 50*50"

the damage is not actually being reduced, it's only divided between the two hits, and now it does 70 instead of 60, so it's another buff.
The lk yoga blast buff will make it a better anti-air because it will be harder to trade with it (less hurtbox). =/
Click to expand...

I like how you quote me saying st.mp and then quote the changes to st.mk yourself;)

And what I mean about lk blast buff, is that 14f is too long of a start up to anti air with, without predicting the jump in. Up close Sim has to work hard to keep the opponent out with short bursts of b.lk/b.mk/c.lk xx flame etc. While doing that, it's not always easy to be ready for the jump in. b.mp is fast enough to react with, but it gets beaten by quite a few jump attacks. Ex blast is the only thing that works here. Also lk blast is way too slow to Counter divekicks. Unless the hurtbox is almost gone, it won't make much of a difference. Sim players will still stay away from the lk blast for the most part.

BUT!!!!! earlier when I tweeted that Sim didn't get any needed changes in this log and Alioune mentioned that it looks like more changes will come with the Decapre console update, I received this:

Peter Rosas ‏@TheComboFiend · 1h
@SimSimIV @Alioune85 @ultradavid @J0hnnyMn @nycfurby @dawgtanian Keep hope alive!
Click to expand...
 
S

Skab

Member
Jeff Gerstmann just mentioned on his live stream that people are saying that Capcom has been purchased by someone. Treat as rumor for now obviously, but is anyone seeing this mentioned elsewhere?
 
C

CurlyW

Member
Skab said:
Jeff Gerstmann just mentioned on his live stream that people are saying that Capcom has been purchased by someone. Treat as rumor for now obviously, but is anyone seeing this mentioned elsewhere?
Click to expand...

Just wait for Facebook to put out the press release.
 
H

Horseress

Member
SimSimIV said:
I like how you quote me saying st.mp and then quote the changes to st.mk yourself;)

And what I mean about lk blast buff, is that 14f is too long of a start up to anti air with, without predicting the jump in. Up close Sim has to work hard to keep the opponent out with short bursts of b.lk/b.mk/c.lk xx flame etc. While doing that, it's not always easy to be ready for the jump in. b.mp is fast enough to react with, but it gets beaten by quite a few jump attacks. Ex blast is the only thing that works here. Also lk blast is way too slow to Counter divekicks. Unless the hurtbox is almost gone, it won't make much of a difference. Sim players will still stay away from the lk blast for the most part.

BUT!!!!! earlier when I tweeted that Sim didn't get any needed changes in this log and Alioune mentioned that it looks like more changes will come with the Decapre console update, I received this:
Click to expand...

ops....sorry, I misread it, my bad =/

And with Combofiend tweeting this means that this isn't the final change list yet! Will be the change list for the arcade version, that Japan will play, but I still don't know how the Ultra I will play will be ¬¬
 
Shouta

Shouta

Member
Westlo said:
Can someone clarify about ken's f.srk fadc

EH

Heavy Shoryuken can now be FADC'd on second hit during opponent's block.

USD

H Shoryuken 2nd hit can no longer be EX Focus Cancelled on block

Discussion on srk forums...

"id go with the srk translation."

They're wrong this time though. it says "Gaado" in the change list, not "hitto".
Click to expand...

Cannot be FADC'd on the second hit if it's guarded now. So SRK is correct.
 
G

GooeyHeat

Member
It's gotten to the point that I can't even tell anymore, but... are those Dee Jay buffs useful, or is it another case of forgetting about him?
 
N

nycfurby

Dhalsim's Max CPM Emporium
Horseress said:
I really really don't agree with some Sim players that he is THAT bad, and he got some great buffs all around in Ultra. Wultra will help him imo, his double-hitting MP will mess up people trying to crumple him from far away, U2 is better, tons of buttons getting more damage.

What's wrong with him now? And what major change would you give to Sim? *looking at Arturo, SimSim and UltraDavid*



It's 0 on block now
Click to expand...

He is pretty bad. I'm not going to go into a long diatribe but do people not understand that I'm playing tons of offstream matches with rose? I'm not getting top 8 because of sim. same case at final round. tons of bad matchups.
here is a link from NeoGaf's favorite site in the world, eventhubs with my matchup chart that i got blown up for as "not knowing what I'm talking about"

http://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/sf4/share/?user=Sabin&char=dhalsim

Overall score: 168
Favorable matches: 5
Even matches: 9
Unfavorable matches: 24
Unrated matches: 0
 
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