Yeah the comeback mechanic is what makes the game hype. Take that away and it gets kinda boring... I remember watching that no x-factor tournament at next level and that was practically chris g's tournament to win. Vergil could use some balancing tho...
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Fighting Games Weekly | Aug 18-24 | Fall back, u nerd
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
Yeah the comeback mechanic is what makes the game hype. Take that away and it gets kinda boring... I remember watching that no x-factor tournament at next level and that was practically chris g's tournament to win. Vergil could use some balancing tho...
Deckard Cain
Banned
God Enzo ia such a Marvel fanboy. Will you please stop.
Ono hints that next SF will hit PS4, X1, probably not Wii U.
Plus, 90% of the time when people complain about X-Factor it's because whoever lost made a stupid decision or chose to use their resources improperly, so it's pretty easy to roll your eyes at those types of complaints. The main issue with it is it's strength as a resource vs. stuff like meter in terms of deciding how a match plays out, for which I think there is a decent argument, but I still don't think it's that bad.
Yeah I definitely think the volatility of MvC3 is integral to it's appeal. Gift and a curse. FWIW, I definitely feel high stakes fighting games have a place just like slower-paced games do. I think the game is fine without X-Factor though, maybe even better off, we're just so used to it in it's current state, it's hard to judge. Making it less volatile is probably best for the game though, but stuff like TACs and hitstun exploits contribute to that MUCH more than X-Factor.
Plus, 90% of the time when people complain about X-Factor it's because whoever lost made a stupid decision or chose to use their resources improperly, so it's pretty easy to roll your eyes at those types of complaints. The main issue with it is it's strength as a resource vs. stuff like meter in terms of deciding how a match plays out, for which I think there is a decent argument, but I still don't think it's that bad.
I guess that's why one shouldn't pick a Shadow versus Elizabeth. Noted.
"Bad" games can be "fun"
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
When is Divekick
significant comeback mechanics are garbage and marvel 3's character balance is garbage because somehow the comeback mechanic makes more of the cast relevant except in the case of the tippity toppest tiers
volatility is really important to the appeal of any competitive game, both to the competitors and spectators but marvel 3's level of volatility is like atom bomb primed uranium vs. the dynamite that various other old high damage games have
it's way, way, way, way way too much
base high damage by itself is usually enough to cause folks aches when it comes to 'comeback potential', nevertheless something as insane as x-factor
also why do you give a damn if a game is "bad" as long as you enjoy it and there's real competition you can consistently play locally and across the world? everyone knows marvel 3 is unbelievably terrible but shit that don't stop me and plenty of other folks from going in hard on it
volatility is really important to the appeal of any competitive game, both to the competitors and spectators but marvel 3's level of volatility is like atom bomb primed uranium vs. the dynamite that various other old high damage games have
it's way, way, way, way way too much
base high damage by itself is usually enough to cause folks aches when it comes to 'comeback potential', nevertheless something as insane as x-factor
also why do you give a damn if a game is "bad" as long as you enjoy it and there's real competition you can consistently play locally and across the world? everyone knows marvel 3 is unbelievably terrible but shit that don't stop me and plenty of other folks from going in hard on it
like UMvC3
Every fighting game is a bad game by default.
X-Factor isn't really the problem, it just helps catalyze the real agents of volatility, but still isn't as problematic as the big two, which I feel are improper hitstun deterioration and TACs.
I think you can make an argument for base damage being too high as well, but I'd rather it just stay that high and we have harsher HSD that is guaranteed to reach a point where any character will fall out. If you have both of those, the game will be too slow.
I think you can make an argument for base damage being too high as well, but I'd rather it just stay that high and we have harsher HSD that is guaranteed to reach a point where any character will fall out. If you have both of those, the game will be too slow.
WesternHeretic
Member
I've been here for 3 years and I've seen these same ass discussion being recycled for 3 years.
God damn you mark ass mofos come up with something new to talk about!
Who the fuck are you talking to? Your college professor?
God damn you mark ass mofos come up with something new to talk about!
Who the fuck are you talking to? Your college professor?
RockTurtle
Member
Its still a fun feature to have. Which fighters are you referring to exactly anyway? Because in games like DoA5, its just an extra fun feature to have and people still play that game largely as 1v1.
Besides, for the large part, tag games from last gen. have offered satisfying mechanics that offer synergistic components. Sfxtk has a focus on team combos and is a very fun tag fighter especially since it offers pair play.
TTT2 has tag assault which takes the consideration for team synergy to another level.
Marvel Stockholm Syndrome in full effect.
Kind of surprised we haven't made an official FGC-GAF cycle yet like the Marvel thread has.
Mostly Tekken Tag, and to a lesser extent SFxTK. Neither of the mechanics you mentioned do anything for me, unfortunately. I can see how team combos could be satisfying though, and potentially offer a bit of that depth I guess I guess I require. How does damage [and hitstun] scaling work between team members when you switch between them in both games?
If he were truly talking to a college professor, he might want to do a better job placing his adjective phrases next to the objects they were modifying.
Edit: Actually, what am I saying? Most don't give a shit lol.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
x-factor is good
like enzo said, dark vergil comebacks are a vergil problem, not an x-factor problem.
like enzo said, dark vergil comebacks are a vergil problem, not an x-factor problem.
SousedLouse
Member
Damn, and I was gonna copy and paste my essay on mid-match transformations, too.
I thought we were doing OK outside of talking about team comp, though.
It seems like the P4U2 1.1 match Jourdal posted is making its way across a lot of sites. Lots of people are getting a crash course in Shadow Bursts and Hama spells.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Well the Shadow stuff is not new, but I do NOT recall seeing Elizabeth being able to do that before. Maybe because she is just so rarely played.
Master Milk
Member
Is Elizabeth still ass? That's the only thing that even matters
In the first one, I think one of her challenges in the combo mode required her to combo into it
And I think I've seen style combos where people use both
In the first one, I think one of her challenges in the combo mode required her to combo into it
And I think I've seen style combos where people use both
She could always do that, even in P4A. One of her Challenge Mode trials even requires it. Stuff seems overblown, tbh. If it was so crazy, everyone would be playing Shadows and Elizabeth, neither of which is the case, obviously.
Yup a good game
See my previous statement.
She's still super low tier.
Like FluxWavez said, it was a thing before. You didn't see it because Liz was either busy dying horribly or doing 100% life combos from a B starter.
tacs are about equal with xfactor but the damage and hitstun are the biggest problems in determining the snowball-y 'dumb feeling' game flow outside of specific character design
it's hard to determine what exactly would be a 'fix' to them because the obvious answer is jacking up damage scaling in the same way MVC2 does it, to where it scales really really really fast with supers doing the brunt of the damage (unless your name is sentinel i guess) but the actual hitstun system doesn't really have the 'balance' to that either because ultimately the meter gain and setup situations derived from the standardization of the combo system across characters
increasing hitstun scaling is a problem in itself because the 'feel' of characters dropping out of combos and stuff is still eye-ballish/played on the safe side and increasing it would simply make determining comboability more annoying while encouraging 'safer' canned j.s knockdown setup situations off the standardized combo system which is a really bad pace killer, especially in a marvel game.
i've talked with folks about this before and the big things that were important were that hitstun values are too high in marvel 3- hitstun scaling is whatever as long as it's not too severe but the ability to just throw out buttons and getting full combos without really hitconfirming or taking major risk is real bad. but what amount is the 'right amount' is hard to tell considering how the game's characters are clearly designed around having massively monstrous amounts of hitstun with how their normals and movement options work
so... it's rough!
Dats a gud game doe.
In SFxT, damage scaling keeps applying normally unless you used an ABC chain.
What makes tag combos important in general is:
a) Juggle Counter is reset, so if you were doing an air combo, you can keep going
b) Even better positioning , be it better corner carry, side switches or just putting in the character that has a hard knockdown and mix-up (that ties in with team synergy and match-ups)
c) Certain moves just allow for ridiculous damage for less meter, specifically moves that leave opponents grounded with a lot of hitstun. Yoshimitsu with his Vacuum Windmill move is the most common example of that
There is nothing more nerve-wracking than writing to a professor.If he were truly talking to a college professor, he might want to do a better job placing his adjective phrases next to the objects they were modifying.
Edit: Actually, what am I saying? Most don't give a shit lol.
Also I suck at writing. I still can't shake the habit of ending every other sentence with "though."
Professor Beef
Banned
WesternHeretic
Member
Bro.. I was born in the United States of America and not until my 2nd year of college did I kind of some what understood proper grammar.
#PublicSchoolEducation
Now that I'm an adult, and no longer in college... I don't remember a god damn thing.
Yes.
Curry-Hakase
Member
fall back u nerd etc. etc.
yeah no kidding
(i'm just being a dick)
and yes dark chars are a xf problem exclusively and a major part of the game is ultimately based around x-factor 2/3 and the nullification or advantage-taking thereof it's pretty fucked but that's what happens when your comeback mechanic is way too effective
WesternHeretic
Member
Step the fuck up, or step the fuck off nerd.
(really fall back nerd sounds WEEEEEEEEEEEAK AS FUCK.)
I say we spice it up a bit.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Someone should just make a game that's like Marvel 3 but not busted, and avoid using some other company's characters so they can actually support it for ever.
I had the idea of a Greek vs Viking gods versus game which would feature gods and monsters from both pantheons duking it out for the title King of All Gods. 3v3, nutty designs, Thor versus Zeus, all that fun stuff.
King of All Gods is actually a pretty nice name too. KAG.
I had the idea of a Greek vs Viking gods versus game which would feature gods and monsters from both pantheons duking it out for the title King of All Gods. 3v3, nutty designs, Thor versus Zeus, all that fun stuff.
King of All Gods is actually a pretty nice name too. KAG.
WesternHeretic
Member
No one going to play with a bunch of unknown characters.. aka Skull Girls.
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
People know who Liam Neeson and Chris Hemsworth are!
I would like a battle of mythical gods fighting game. Throw some giant mechs in there as well.
Seen this on Twitter
What exactly does this mean? I'm not immediately familiar with either of these companies.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
The problem is that there are a handful of characters who benefit from XF disproportionately.
SloaneRisette
Member
I would argue that the game that requires you to keep both members of your team alive is a stronger team game than the game endorses this:
It endorses bad shirt design?
Street Fighter gave us godlike kineda and Brokentier shirts
Marvel gave us http://ykwis.com/
SAVANTS WIN
Parallax Scroll
Banned
Oh boy the XF argument that we have had 11091239210 times on FGWs.
Enzo sounds like a kid who just recently graduated from college. While good for him, most of us here are too old for that shit.
I think some characters really need high hit stun to compete with other characters who can confirm from super jump height because they have Foot Dive, aerial dash, aerial bounces etc. Otherwise it creates a massive divide in character balance where some top tiers can confirm from super jump height and other characters can't. Hell this is a big problem of balance in MVC2 as well... where some characters got big damage off of aerial hits and others got nothing.
Like in MVC3 the characters with low hit stun have this weakness really compounded when they are put against other characters. Characters like X23, Chun Li, Spider Man struggle when their aerial hits amount to nothing due to low hit stun where as characters like Wolverine, Nova, Dante can strive in the air because they can do big damage tagging you in the air. A lot of the game is played in the aerial space and for there to be threat to aerial characters you need characters who can get combos from that space... otherwise why the fuck wouldn't you stay in the air all the time?
If I were to talk about a character with just the right amount of hit stun it would be Iron Man. His hit confirms are hard but he can hit confirm from any space if the player has the skill/execution. On the opposite spectrum I would have Nova who has way too much hit stun on his j.H and Chun Li who has very little stun on moves making it unnecessarily difficult to confirm anything with her.
The issue of hit stun is mostly a balance process. Stuff like this can be tweaked. Stuff like TACs need a full on rework.
Oh wait someone beat me to it LMAO!
Enzo sounds like a kid who just recently graduated from college. While good for him, most of us here are too old for that shit.
This is something that is worth discussing over rather than XF ad infinitum.
I think some characters really need high hit stun to compete with other characters who can confirm from super jump height because they have Foot Dive, aerial dash, aerial bounces etc. Otherwise it creates a massive divide in character balance where some top tiers can confirm from super jump height and other characters can't. Hell this is a big problem of balance in MVC2 as well... where some characters got big damage off of aerial hits and others got nothing.
Like in MVC3 the characters with low hit stun have this weakness really compounded when they are put against other characters. Characters like X23, Chun Li, Spider Man struggle when their aerial hits amount to nothing due to low hit stun where as characters like Wolverine, Nova, Dante can strive in the air because they can do big damage tagging you in the air. A lot of the game is played in the aerial space and for there to be threat to aerial characters you need characters who can get combos from that space... otherwise why the fuck wouldn't you stay in the air all the time?
If I were to talk about a character with just the right amount of hit stun it would be Iron Man. His hit confirms are hard but he can hit confirm from any space if the player has the skill/execution. On the opposite spectrum I would have Nova who has way too much hit stun on his j.H and Chun Li who has very little stun on moves making it unnecessarily difficult to confirm anything with her.
The issue of hit stun is mostly a balance process. Stuff like this can be tweaked. Stuff like TACs need a full on rework.
So good.
why does everyone flip out when I lazy post all day long and decide to use big words once
let me live
SloaneRisette
Member
Maybe if more members of BT win Evo for Marvel as opposed to Norcal/FGTV people, we can cancel out Neo's shirts
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
By design
Professor Beef
Banned
New tournament started. Didn't get a chance to scrub out of this one though.
[Festivo R1] Draec (Sephiroth) vs DarkonCrack (Lightning)
[Festivo R1] RDF2050 (Warrior of Light) vs JT (Sephiroth)
[Festivo R1] Muggshotter (Jecht) vs Xelxas (Sys) (WoL/Gabranth/Golbez)
[Festivo R1] AK (Zidane) vs LockeCole (Kain)
[Festivo R1] Sougo (Squall) vs Galadin (Sephiroth) <-- Pretty sure Sougo is a gaffer, too
[Festivo R1] Dark-Lumina (Sephiroth) vs DanneD (Kefka/Sephiroth)
[Festivo R1] TKG09 (Prishe) vs X-star (Prishe)
[Festivo R1] Draec (Sephiroth) vs DarkonCrack (Lightning)
[Festivo R1] RDF2050 (Warrior of Light) vs JT (Sephiroth)
[Festivo R1] Muggshotter (Jecht) vs Xelxas (Sys) (WoL/Gabranth/Golbez)
[Festivo R1] AK (Zidane) vs LockeCole (Kain)
[Festivo R1] Sougo (Squall) vs Galadin (Sephiroth) <-- Pretty sure Sougo is a gaffer, too
[Festivo R1] Dark-Lumina (Sephiroth) vs DanneD (Kefka/Sephiroth)
[Festivo R1] TKG09 (Prishe) vs X-star (Prishe)
KNOW YOUR PLACE SON!
Everyone expects long ass posts from me so I deliver. If I started talking like Sigma then people would get on my case on me.
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