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[Imm0rt4l]

Good character design gets good praise.

Shit character design gets rightfully shitted on.

word

 

[ShinMaruku]

That's your problem. That shit appeals to people. You have to let it go man. just let them cook

Exactly.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

I don't think her design is bad, personally. They were clearly going for the modern AKB48 styled idol + Hatsune Miku-esque vocaloid look and on that end they executed it well.

 

[Dahbomb]

Daigo thinks SFV looks too slow(and some other weird things): http://beastnote.blogspot.com/2015/01/umehara-talk-20141231.html

Kind of reminds me of his initial impressions of SFIV though, so it might not matter to even him in the end. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj_T6c-_L6A)

Daigo should play some Marvel then.

 

[AAK]

Everyone tries to dream of the days Tekken was only dark and serious but I don't think those days ever existed. We've always had goofy characters in Tekken and funny, non-serious endings right alongside with all the serious Mishima fist fights.

But the nonsense was never marketed. You'd never see the BS characters in trailers or intros or title enbu's and the such. And even if they did, they were relegated to side stuff that you have to actively unlock which gives it more of a "joke unlockable" rather than an integral part of the game. It's like the big head modes we got in old school ps1 and ps2 games. You just unlock them at the end of the game as just some random feature, not some major part of the game.

Just look at all the intro's to Tekken from 1 to 5. We don't see Dr. B or Gon or Alex in any of them trolling around. Tekken 2 and Tekken 5 had milliseconds of Kuma and Roger, but even then, they were represented as fighters and not trolls like they are in game.

You can look at the trailers of Tekken since I remember them:

Tekken 4 Trailer 2 Trailer 1

Tekken 5 Trailer 1 Trailer 2

Notice how in NONE of them do they advertise joke animals in any of their trailers? They were both relegated to the very end showing an "and" implying "here is some random stuff also included in the game for fun". With this kind of marketing you don't get the implication that "this is a huge part of the game".

You can't blame people who were fans of the series from that era feel disconnected with trailers now looking like this.

But whatever, let's see if Lucky Chloe really does make more people want to play Tekken.

 

[KidA Seven]

Daigo should play some Marvel then.

Daigo likes playing in the arcades.

 

[Azure J]

What is this PPMD excitement all about in the VGBootcamp stream?

 

[CountBlack]

is SF5 going to the arcades first tho

 

[Kimosabae]

haha my thoughts exactly

 

[KidA Seven]

is SF5 going to the arcades first tho

Probably not. Which kind of sucks as a lot of japanese don't play games that aren't in arcades. SF is a game that can survive without an arcade scene though due to the amount of competitors overall contributing to the prize money.

 

[fader]

Daigo thinks SFV looks too slow(and some other weird things): http://beastnote.blogspot.com/2015/01/umehara-talk-20141231.html

Kind of reminds me of his initial impressions of SFIV though, so it might not matter to even him in the end. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj_T6c-_L6A)

I just put this off as noise... He then makes remarks about how they should try a SF with block and tech grab limits? Sounds like a cellphone game...

 

[chocolate disco]

Which other design is outright awful?

If you answer Alisa, fine. But at least she has chainsaw arms and an exploding head, which makes up for those ugly pink hair. Other characters range from okay to awesome, though.

There have been bad designs in Tekken before, I have already went ham on Alisa and Lars before. Chloe however manages to be in her own tier of awfulness and is only in Tekken to woo the otakus.

For me Tekken is and always will be goofy fighting game because of its characters. Tekken is not Tekken without them. My most strong memories from the time I played T3 as a kid are Yoshimitsu (he is unforgettable), Eddie (*mashmashmash*) and tiny T-Rex ("wow what? he looks funny!"). I don't feel that Chloe is "out of place". That's why it's weird to me when people can tolerate other things and go crazy over this one.

===
Sooo I don't see "outright awful" designs in Tekken. They all blend well with each other. But if you want to talk about awful character designs then let's look in the SF direction.

===
Is there an option to receive a notification when someone quote you?

 

[Dahbomb]

But if you want to talk about awful character designs then let's look in the SF direction.

Please elaborate on this.

In the meantime... let me get the popcorns out for this one.

 

[RockTurtle]

Murata (eyeshield 21, One-Punch Man)'s artwork

 

[Infinite]

There are like a dozen other waifu fighters and idolmasters for these people to consume. They can cook that stuff in those games.

And besides Alisa is already supposed to be that character which appeals to them. Then on top of that there are a ton of customizations to make your character to look like a catgirl or an idol or whatever you fancy.


I already explained why Chloe is bad. It's overdesigned and garish with no unifying theme. Is it a ballerina, a DJ, a pop idol? At least the kangaroo looks like a damn kangaroo.

A good design is something where you look at the character and you instantly recognize what they are going for. When I look at Chloe I clearly see that they are going for a demographic, not going for a good character design. It's not original and it's not inspired.

It honestly looks like one of the many custom creations that people make which are a god damn eye sore. Hell I have seen people make custom creations that look better than that.

I hope you realize that this essentially can be reduced to "because I like one and not the other". Which is okay once again just so as long as you realize that.

Also the discussion of "Chloe is obnoxious and over designed" is a separate discussion from "Chloe doesn't deserve to be featured in Tekken because she upsets what I think the game should be and represent" is two different discussions. Which one are we having? Because I rather not have the latter as it oozes with entitlement.

 

[Dahbomb]

Also the discussion of "Chloe is obnoxious and over designed" is a separate discussion from "Chloe doesn't deserve to be featured in Tekken because she upsets what I think the game should be and represent" is two different discussions. Which one are we having? Because I rather not have the latter as it oozes with entitlement.

Pretty sure I never actually said that. The argument was always about bad/good character design. Anything beyond that is people getting over defensive about Lucky Chloe.

Doesn't matter which fighting game Lucky Chloe is featured in, she would be a bad character design in every fighting game she comes in even DOA.

 

[Azure J]

Murata (eyeshield 21, One-Punch Man)'s artwork

Murata the god.

I will simply never understand how JPN artists did the promo material for MVC3 better than the actual comic book artists put in charge of it.

 

[direct_quote]

I really don't think Chloe is appealing to any demographic because of the inconsistencies with her design. I'll agree that she's a very loud and incoherent character but this is a game that has a LOT of loud and incoherent characters. I think she fits in fine.

I used to think C. Viper was an incredibly non SF like character and I still do today because her direction is something you see from KOF.

I still view C. Viper as a non SF character and wish she wouldn't be in SF5.

 

[Silky]

"SF has bad art direction"

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLL

 

[RockTurtle]

Pretty sure I never actually said that. The argument was always about bad/good character design. Anything beyond that is people getting over defensive about Lucky Chloe.

Doesn't matter which fighting game Lucky Chloe is featured in, she would be a bad character design in every fighting game she comes in even DOA.

don't drag me into this scuffle dahbomb pls

 

[Village]

I still view C. Viper as a non SF character and wish she wouldn't be in SF5.

I view her as the most marvel Street fighter character ever and wish she was in every street fighter.

Also her whole deal is interesting.

 

[fader]

I still view C. Viper as a non SF character and wish she wouldn't be in SF5.

Yea me too, she definitely stands out from the cast.

 

[Infinite]

I view her as the most marvel Street fighter character ever and wish she was in every street fighter.

Also her whole deal is interesting.

Juri stands out for the same reason imo

 

[ShinMaruku]

Doesn't matter which fighting game Lucky Chloe is featured in, she would be a bad character design in every fighting game she comes in even DOA.

http://i.imgur.com/TH1niIh.jpg
You sure?

And who is anybody to tell the creators of a game what design they should use?

 

[Dlent]

Juri is the same as Rose though; a JoJo character.

 

[Village]

Juri stands out for the same reason imo

Yep, on the same token Juri is the most jojo character ever and I wish she was also in all the street fighters.

She even says ora ora ora.

SF4 hit out of the park with me with new female characters.

The dudes, not so much, I like seth because he is cars and Mr. Manhattan, also his new wild outfit makes him look more like cars also it has a damn Liono color.

I also like fuerte, epically that rey mystereo like alt.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

But the nonsense was never marketed. You'd never see the BS characters in trailers or intros or title enbu's and the such. And even if they did, they were relegated to side stuff that you have to actively unlock which gives it more of a "joke unlockable" rather than an integral part of the game. It's like the big head modes we got in old school ps1 and ps2 games. You just unlock them at the end of the game as just some random feature, not some major part of the game.

Just look at all the intro's to Tekken from 1 to 5. We don't see Dr. B or Gon or Alex in any of them trolling around. Tekken 2 and Tekken 5 had milliseconds of Kuma and Roger, but even then, they were represented as fighters and not trolls like they are in game.

You can look at the trailers of Tekken since I remember them:

Tekken 4 Trailer 2 Trailer 1

Tekken 5 Trailer 1 Trailer 2

Notice how in NONE of them do they advertise joke animals in any of their trailers? They were both relegated to the very end showing an "and" implying "here is some random stuff also included in the game for fun". With this kind of marketing you don't get the implication that "this is a huge part of the game".

You can't blame people who were fans of the series from that era feel disconnected with trailers now looking like this.

But whatever, let's see if Lucky Chloe really does make more people want to play Tekken.

word up. Just look at Dr. B and Gon in tekken 3.


Tekken has been embracing it's more japanese animu sensibilities as of late. Alisa, and Lars's design comes to mind.

 

[ShinMaruku]

I want Juri and Viper back. Mainly Juri, just give her an ass and a cup size upgrade and I'll be A-OK.

I think she's safe though. She's a Korean 'evil' Chun Li

-Hair buns? Check
-Loves to kick? Check
-Bipson killed her father? Check
-Spiked bracelets? Check
-Wants to jump Ryu's bones? Check

 

[Dahbomb]

Mainly Juri, just give her an ass and a cup size upgrade and I'll be A-OK.

I really hope this is not a serious post.

 

[fader]

just give her an ass and a cup size upgrade and I'll be A-OK.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

I really hope this is not a serious post.

 

[AAK]

http://i.imgur.com/TH1niIh.jpg
You sure?

And who is anybody to tell the creators of a game what design they should use?

Technically, the market is. If the market isn't happy they won't buy the game. The question is, will the market that likes this stuff outnumber the market that won't.

And if you want to say that if one character is enough to make someone stop playing a game then they were never a fan to begin with.... I'm gonna say you're wrong when it comes to fighting games. To play a fighting game, you don't have to just understand how your character alone works, you have to understand how the entire cast works when you fight against them. If someone outrageously hates the Bob design, I'd recommend they not play Tekken Tag 2... because you're gonna face that character a frequent amount of times when going online and ruining the experience for you even if you like the system. Yes one character has the potential to do that... as does Chloe. Bears make me livid and it makes playing Tekken far less enjoyable than it could be whenever I have to fight them... but they're still in a far lower spectrum of stupid compared to Lucky Chloe who's just a design gone full retard.

It's the same way with me not buying Arcana Heart despite having but nothing but positive things to say about it's mechanics.

 

[ShinMaruku]

I really hope this is not a serious post.

It's for you to decide.

This is why I love that avatar.

 

[Marz]

Yep, on the same token Juri is the most jojo character ever and I wish she was also in all the street fighters.

She even says ora ora ora.

SF4 hit out of the park with me with new female characters.

The dudes, not so much, I like seth because he is cars and Mr. Manhattan, also his new wild outfit makes him look more like cars also it has a damn Liono color.

I also like fuerte, epically that rey mystereo like alt.

You have horrible taste.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

You have horrible taste.

bruh the other day I tried to play you and the game froze. I've only played 1 single adon in the last 6 months and when it did work, Adon had no voice. The game seemingly freezes every time an Adon wants to fight. Weird.

 

[CountBlack]

Look at what Anime's done to us.


Turned us into animals.

smh

 

[enzo_gt]

I'm kind of fond of every SF4 newcomer in some way or another, except Rufus, of course. Viper I can take or leave, though. She works 10x better in Marvel so maybe she should just stick to that series from here onwards.

 

[Professor Beef]

Look at what Anime's done to us.


Turned us into animals.

smh

yeah just look at those sf4 costumes

 

[fader]

She works 10x better in Marvel so maybe she should just stick to that series from here onwards.

sooo never to be seen again? Kappa

 

[Imm0rt4l]

I'm kind of fond of every SF4 newcomer in some way or another, except Rufus, of course. Viper I can take or leave, though. She works 10x better in Marvel so maybe she should just stick to that series from here onwards.

same

 

[Infinite]

Pretty sure I never actually said that. The argument was always about bad/good character design. Anything beyond that is people getting over defensive about Lucky Chloe.

Doesn't matter which fighting game Lucky Chloe is featured in, she would be a bad character design in every fighting game she comes in even DOA.

To be fair you did compare it to the DmC debacle and said that Harada deserved the twitter backlash for revealing the character but imma leave it alone

 

[NEO0MJ]

SF IV brought us Hakan, so no matter how bad you consider the other characters are he redeems them.

 

[Dahbomb]

To be fair you did compare it to the DmC and said that Harada deserved the twitter backlash for revealing the character but imma leave it alone

I compared it to DmC when it was brought up that people pledged their support for the game in favor of Lucky Chloe. That was a very similar situation that happened with DmC (ie. people pledging support over a character design).

 

[chocolate disco]

Please elaborate on this.

In the meantime... let me get the popcorns out for this one.

Make yourself a sandwich. More tasty.
SFIV... It feels like those characters were dragged here from different games. But I guess it's an intentional thing. "Street fighters" lol. No joke, I can't even find a single likeable character, haha. Ugly 3D graphics surely don't help.

===
Is there an option to receive a notification when someone quote you?

 

[Marz]

bruh the other day I tried to play you and the game froze. I've only played 1 single adon in the last 6 months and when it did work, Adon had no voice. The game seemingly freezes every time an Adon wants to fight. Weird.

Oh OK I was wondering what happened. I figured you just bounced or something.

 

[Infinite]

I compared it to DmC when it was brought up that people pledged their support for the game in favor of Lucky Chloe. That was a very similar situation that happened with DmC (ie. people pledging support over a character design).

I see. For the record I do think Chloe is a bit over designed but honestly she looks like she'll fit in with any vocaloid so maybe that's what they were going for? Idk .

 

[Dlent]

SF IV brought us Hakan, so no matter how bad you consider the other characters are he redeems them.

No one ever brings up how anime Hakan is, I love him. And no one seems to bring up how bright red skin and teal hair unifies the theme of a Turkish oil wrestler.

Spoiler

Unless this is some kind of official color scheme for the sport I guess?

 

[ShinMaruku]

Technically, the market is. If the market isn't happy they won't buy the game. The question is, will the market that likes this stuff outnumber the market that won't.

And if you want to say that if one character is enough to make someone stop playing a game then they were never a fan to begin with.... I'm gonna say you're wrong when it comes to fighting games. To play a fighting game, you don't have to just understand how your character alone works, you have to understand how the entire cast works when you fight against them. If someone outrageously hates the Bob design, I'd recommend they not play Tekken Tag 2... because you're gonna face that character a frequent amount of times when going online and ruining the experience for you even if you like the system. Yes one character has the potential to do that... as does Chloe. Bears make me livid and it makes playing Tekken far less enjoyable than it could be whenever I have to fight them... but they're still in a far lower spectrum of stupid compared to Lucky Chloe who's just a design gone full retard.

It's the same way with me not buying Arcana Heart despite having but nothing but positive things to say about it's mechanics.

Fair enough but I think most of the bitching about Lucky Chole is not indicative of the market. I think she's made with a bit of market awareness. Sometimes you have to grow the audience. Perhaps the small amout they lose will make up for the more varied fanbase they got.

 

[alstein]

I'd say Chloe is playing to the Japanese audience. The new Arab guy is more about expanding the audience.

I really get the impression Tekken views the American market as very secondary. I think the only 3D fighter that cares about the US market at all is DOA.

 

[Shouta]

I'd say Chloe is playing to the Japanese audience. The new Arab guy is more about expanding the audience.

I really get the impression Tekken views the American market as very secondary. I think the only 3D fighter that cares about the US market at all is DOA.

Hence boobs.