to be fair i always thought max was a shill who took under the table payments from capcom and wondered why anyone liked that loser, until he started putting out injustice and ki content
don't ever let me convince you im not a huge hypocrite
I know a lot of you guys in this thread agree, but my viewership/growth is bigger than ever and the game is legitimately more fun than a lot of other modern fighters, especially online.
Solar pretty much found himself in the same kinda situation you described regarding yourself and the situation around the Marvel OT when it first went up. Very enthusiastic about the game and what it was doing right even with Lab Zero going through its growing pains and issues
This also reminds me that my new laptop can't get here sooner. I need to play it more and get a hang of how it all feels for Eliza soonish.
Oh really? Low key, Solar is also one of the better posters in FGC-GAF, it's always a good discussion to read. I think he/she's become a bit disenchanted with the anti-Skullgirls sentiment in these threads though and stopped posting so much here, which I don't blame 'em or any other person who's really into Skullgirls for.
It's not just being fans, it's going onto any platform and just saying stuff nothing but the heights of positivity with every sentence ending with "you should check it out" or some veiled threat of what will happen if you don't support x product. Or they start downplaying criticisms or prospective problems idle observers have. There are boundaries between enthusiasm and whatever that is.
It's also why I've always thought of the FGC as an easy sell to sponsors. People promote SO much stuff for free, not just talking games, and they definitely show considerable love to any sponsor who jumps in to help out in any way possible, be it supplying water bottles for an event or putting money straight into the pot.
everything I've done on my channel is something I've done for free out of my own pocket. it's not paid shill at all. if people want to say I dropped sfxt, well, i won 2 big events for the game in 2013, so there goes that. That was well after the Cross Assault money left. Injustice? Yes, I got paid to test it, but after that I haven't been paid for anything. Pushed out content for my local scene, did match analysis, character tutorials, always pushed the game etc. What are people going to say I'm a paid shill for anime too next? lol I barely get paid for any of this.
Can you see why people would mistake your enthusiasm for this sort of thing though? Getting hyped up for whatever comes out, making dedicated content for the releases, and then slowly waning off of it over time? I guess you can say that you just love fighting games in general and give everything a fair shake whether it busts or not, but like I said above, once you dip into those waters people immediately take a step back and think twice about the level of criticism you're applying to that content. Not everyone is seen like S-Kill either.
everything I've done on my channel is something I've done for free out of my own pocket. it's not paid shill at all. if people want to say I dropped sfxt, well, i won 2 big events for the game in 2013, so there goes that. That was well after the Cross Assault money left. Injustice? Yes, I got paid to test it, but after that I haven't been paid for anything. Pushed out content for my local scene, did match analysis, character tutorials, always pushed the game etc. What are people going to say I'm a paid shill for anime too next? lol I barely get paid for any of this.
I'll preface this by saying I don't really follow your content or your channel, so I haven't noticed this trend in you specifically.
but when I see people producing all this content for games pre-release or at release and showing all this love for a game that hasn't developed at all yet, it always seemed to me like catering to whatever's new/popular at the moment to grab viewers/subscribers, rather than being paid to do so.
I know a lot of you guys in this thread agree, but my viewership/growth is bigger than ever and the game is legitimately more fun than a lot of other modern fighters, especially online.
I have genuinely enjoyed your coverage of KI. The game itself has taken up quite a bit of my time lately. I would have honestly not paid much attention to it after E3 if not for your coverage. Thanks dood, seriously.
Can you see why people would mistake your enthusiasm for this sort of thing though? Getting hyped up for whatever comes out, making dedicated content for the releases, and then slowly waning off of it over time? I guess you can say that you just love fighting games in general and give everything a fair shake whether it busts or not, but like I said above, once you dip into those waters people immediately take a step back and think twice about the level of criticism you're applying to that content. Not everyone is seen like S-Kill either.
If people can't understand a long time fighting game player getting excited..for new fighting games especially when said player has a history of dabblin in a bit of everything then i'm not really sure what to say, LOL.
Pretty sure I've been critical of fighting games a whole bunch, like MK9 with netplay or SFXT prepatch autoblock gems, or sometimes accidentally putting a game on blast (like the whole KI DRM situation at Defend the School.) I would hope that it's fairly obvious to most people given my content (a lot of secondary streams/offstream footage/salty suites with some rather..non esports commentary) that I don't get paid for maintaining my own channel by some other entities. I've only got 4million views anyway, people think it's bigger than it actually is on YT, it's actually really small.
I know a lot of you guys in this thread agree, but my viewership/growth is bigger than ever and the game is legitimately more fun than a lot of other modern fighters, especially online.
It's ok Panda, I promised the mods I wont be posting that much in FGCW because well you know.
I'd tell you all how I really feel but I'd rather not have to deal with a ban. Just know my feelings about FGCW hasn't change since that last post and at the request of the mods who let me come back, I wont be around much.
It's not just being fans, it's going onto any platform and just saying stuff nothing but the heights of positivity with every sentence ending with "you should check it out" or some veiled threat of what will happen if you don't support x product. Or they start downplaying criticisms or prospective problems idle observers have. There are boundaries between enthusiasm and whatever that is.
It's also why I've always thought of the FGC as an easy sell to sponsors. People promote SO much stuff for free, not just talking games, and they definitely show considerable love to any sponsor who jumps in to help out in any way possible, be it supplying water bottles for an event or putting money straight into the pot.
I mean yeah but I mean people like Max and Arturo just seem to have genuine passion for the games they display on their channel. That's not suspect at all to me. And yeah the FGC is willing promote anything except for anime
As much as I like that this topic is being discussed I'm gonna bow out here as I don't want to be thought of as being on Deckard Cain's side of the argument.
Hey FGC-GAF, I wanna ask you some questions about execution.
What is a fighting game made in the past ~6 years that you think requires 'high execution' to play competitively? (Relative to other fighting games made around the same time)
Conversely, name a fighting game you would consider to require only 'low execution' to play competitively?
What is the first thing that comes to mind when you think of something 'requiring high execution' in a fighting game?
And a bonus question:
Do you believe that characters that require high execution to play properly should be rewarded somehow relative to lower execution characters? (i.e. having unique/better options)
-This is assuming the developer is responsible for the 'reward', and not technology the dev didn't consider(even if the latter is often the case over the former).
I expect a lot of interesting answers to the bonus question.
What is a fighting game made in the past ~6 years that you think requires 'high execution' to play competitively? (Relative to other fighting games made around the same time)
Something that requires a ton of precise inputs to play in the neutral. So to me Morrigan and Magneto are high execution characters.
And a bonus question:
Do you believe that characters that require high execution to play properly should be rewarded somehow relative to lower execution characters? (i.e. having unique/better options)
This will be an unpopular opinion among the FGC.... but I say no. I say no because execution is something that is eventually attained by someone and if you make a character proportionally as strong as their execution then they become the clear cut top tier.
Like I will just use Magneto as an example because it's easier to grasp. He's hard to play in the neutral because Mag Blast is a unique input plus you need to plink it with a dash to get optimum usage out of it along with his mobility which requires constant plinking. Now let's say this was how Capcom designed him to play and his "reward" was that Mag Blast was a very dominating projectile in the neutral and his mobility was the fastest in the game. Sure... someone like Wesker will be better than Magneto starting out because he's easier to play but after some time people will master his mobility and zoning.. far surpassing Wesker as a character making Wesker irrelevant because Magneto is faster and has better mobility.
That said... there's a big difference between that and balancing moves around their execution. A QCF fireball should in fact be inferior to a charge motion fireball. That is because charge motions have their own inherent weaknesses in that you can't play as offensively. In the same case... a f+H fireball in Marvel (like Wesker's Gun shot) should be inferior to a QCF motion projectile (like a Soul Fist for example).
If people can't understand a long time fighting game player getting excited..for new fighting games especially when said player has a history of dabblin in a bit of everything then i'm not really sure what to say, LOL.
Pretty sure I've been critical of fighting games a whole bunch, like MK9 with netplay or SFXT prepatch autoblock gems, or sometimes accidentally putting a game on blast (like the whole KI DRM situation at Defend the School.) I would hope that it's fairly obvious to most people given my content (a lot of secondary streams/offstream footage/salty suites with some rather..non esports commentary) that I don't get paid for maintaining my own channel by some other entities. I've only got 4million views anyway, people think it's bigger than it actually is on YT, it's actually really small.
It's not really about whether you genuinely love dabbling in all fighting games or not, it's more about your role as both a content creator and history working with these companies. I don't think it makes you immune to people thinking twice saying "well, maybe Arturo just _________."
I think there is a big difference between "a game came out and I'm going to make 100 videos" because max CPM. This is what I see a lot of from certain people and I don't have a problem with it, it just makes sense.
The other thing is "this game is coming out, it is amazing, the netcode is amazing... but you can't play it so you just need to trust me".
The issue with the second part is the "trust" and this is where this drama becomes a problem. If you can't trust people, even because of the actions of others (so not pointing fingers at Max, just linking the implication of those who did publish under this scheme) then it is easy to become very cynical about what should be something useful.
* KOF13
* P4A
* Lots of 1 frame links and a mix of motions such as DP, QCF and jump cancels on actually important moves.
Bonus Question:
Yes, but only due to the nature of what I believe hard execution means. If a character has hard execution that really means that their viable shit is hard to execute. You can have a character with all 1f links for 99% of the moves, but if that other 1% is the good stuff it doesn't matter does it? (nobody every uses every single thing a character has after all).
So similarly if something is hard to execute...and you actually want to do it then it must be pretty good right?
It's a tough sale. I think the fact that the anime communities themselves (mainly arcsys games) think they're too cool for their own games contributes to it.
I feel confident that it will run 60fps on PS3, it just may be at the expense of the fancier graphics the PS4 version will offer. As for the playable roster, let's wait and see. I'm sure the console release will have more characters than the arcade.
What is a fighting game made in the past ~6 years that you think requires 'high execution' to play competitively? (Relative to other fighting games made around the same time)
KOF13.
Conversely, name a fighting game you would consider to require only 'low execution' to play competitively?
Divekick. Serious answer would be P4A.
What is the first thing that comes to mind when you think of something 'requiring high execution' in a fighting game?
Quick and precise inputs needed to do long damaging combos. Then there's 1 frame links. They are fairly difficult without plinking, but they can be done with practice. My biggest issues with 1 frame links is that online lag, and different setups, and systems have different timings. So even if you practiced said link, adding in different variables make said 1 frame link dynamically difficult. It's nonsense.
Do you believe that characters that require high execution to play properly should be rewarded somehow relative to lower execution characters? (i.e. having unique/better options). I feel like they should be rewarded to an extent. I have seen people justify balance because it's hard to do or because it takes practice to do. If something is too strong, but can be done with practice, then the reward is not fair at all. Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean someone else can't. I realize that there are consequences for high execution characters because if you aren't feeling that day, then you can't play to your fullest potential. At the end of the day the developers need to reward you for picking a tough character. If there was no reward, you would just pick the easy character, and get results quicker.
I wouldn't assume something that drastic. I'm sure it will look terrible compared to the PS4 version but I'm sure it will run fine. I doubt they would be making a PS3 version if they didn't think it could handle the game.
using Arturo getting hyped for games, then not caring a few months later isn't really a strong defense
almost every gamer hypes shit up to ridiculous proportions. The game comes out, and then you realize it's nothing like you imagined so you go back to not caring
It's ok Panda, I promised the mods I wont be posting that much in FGCW because well you know.
I'd tell you all how I really feel but I'd rather not have to deal with a ban. Just know my feelings about FGCW hasn't change since that last post and at the request of the mods who let me come back, I wont be around much.
The fact that people rewire the select button, or buy a fighting edge to use button macros to make links easier shows how ridiculous sfiv has become. Id prefer them to remove every one frame link, but It's too late for that nonsense.
I personally would be perfectly fine by it because I play on pad (not these days but that's my default method of play) and plinking on pad is tough.
Although what you mean to say is that they add a 2 frame buffer to moves so that linking is easier which is fine by me. Most fighting games these days have fairly generous buffer windows anyway.
Hey FGC-GAF, I wanna ask you some questions about execution.
What is a fighting game made in the past ~6 years that you think requires 'high execution' to play competitively? (Relative to other fighting games made around the same time)
Conversely, name a fighting game you would consider to require only 'low execution' to play competitively?
What is the first thing that comes to mind when you think of something 'requiring high execution' in a fighting game?
And a bonus question:
Do you believe that characters that require high execution to play properly should be rewarded somehow relative to lower execution characters? (i.e. having unique/better options)
-This is assuming the developer is responsible for the 'reward', and not technology the dev didn't consider(even if the latter is often the case over the former).
The answer changes depending on the play level: versus friends who just wanna chill out and have a beer and beat up some mans, versus people just playing casually or at your local weekly, or versus the world's best at a major. So what exactly are you trying to get out of these questions?
Hey FGC-GAF, I wanna ask you some questions about execution.
What is a fighting game made in the past ~6 years that you think requires 'high execution' to play competitively? (Relative to other fighting games made around the same time)
Conversely, name a fighting game you would consider to require only 'low execution' to play competitively?
What is the first thing that comes to mind when you think of something 'requiring high execution' in a fighting game?
And a bonus question:
Do you believe that characters that require high execution to play properly should be rewarded somehow relative to lower execution characters? (i.e. having unique/better options)
-This is assuming the developer is responsible for the 'reward', and not technology the dev didn't consider(even if the latter is often the case over the former).
1) Not sure but I would say the BlazBlue games require a decent amount of dexterity and so do KoF 13.
2) Definitely Soul Calibur
3) To mean a high execution game is a game that demands a decent amount of dexterity from the player to control their character in a competitive setting. So things like 1 frame links and dash cancel combo and what not are what initially comes to. But I think the games that are truly high execution are the ones that require you to have a lot of tech skill down just to make your character move the way they need too. Like smash bros melee.
I'm actually against putting in hard combos to do but they net you more damage types of stuff in fighting games. At that point it'll boil down to becoming a rhythm game of sorts (ie one player game) rather than a game where you're trying to beat the opponent which is what fighting games should be.
Hey FGC-GAF, I wanna ask you some questions about execution.
What is a fighting game made in the past ~6 years that you think requires 'high execution' to play competitively? (Relative to other fighting games made around the same time)
Conversely, name a fighting game you would consider to require only 'low execution' to play competitively?
What is the first thing that comes to mind when you think of something 'requiring high execution' in a fighting game?
And a bonus question:
Do you believe that characters that require high execution to play properly should be rewarded somehow relative to lower execution characters? (i.e. having unique/better options)
-This is assuming the developer is responsible for the 'reward', and not technology the dev didn't consider(even if the latter is often the case over the former).
In the past six years? I actually think marvel at the top level has the highest execution barrier tbh. All that shit you need to actually know to get to that high level is pretty damn deep. KOF is also up there as well, maybe a tie b/w high level marvel.
Low execution would maybe be divekick and while I haven't played, netherealm games seem to be on the lower side
For the last question, yea. If the dev's intent is to make a high execution character that is shit tier, why even do that to your players? There needs to be some sort of reward to play a high execution character. I'm looking at you i-no
Hey FGC-GAF, I wanna ask you some questions about execution.
What is a fighting game made in the past ~6 years that you think requires 'high execution' to play competitively? (Relative to other fighting games made around the same time)
Conversely, name a fighting game you would consider to require only 'low execution' to play competitively?
What is the first thing that comes to mind when you think of something 'requiring high execution' in a fighting game?
And a bonus question:
Do you believe that characters that require high execution to play properly should be rewarded somehow relative to lower execution characters? (i.e. having unique/better options)
-This is assuming the developer is responsible for the 'reward', and not technology the dev didn't consider(even if the latter is often the case over the former).
Ima scrub, so take my answers with a grain of salt if you wish.
1. KoF 13
2. Probably Smash or DiveKick
Bonus: I think high execution characters should fit into a certain niche of gameplay rather than having a balanced set of tools that can apply to many situations. For example, a character that excels in a rushdown style may deserve a high execution option to address a weakness as a reward. Whereas, a balanced character that has decent tools for multiple styles of play probably doesn't need any more options, even if the option came with an execution barrier, the character would be too op.
So, I guess it depends on the type of character. However, at high levels of play, execution is pretty much a non-factor I think.
I think high execution characters should fit into a certain niche of gameplay rather than having a balanced set of tools that can apply to many situations. For example, a character that excels in a rushdown style may deserve a high execution option to address a weakness as a reward. Whereas, a balanced character that has decent tools for multiple styles of play probably doesn't need any more options, even if the option came with an execution barrier, the character would be too op.
This is probably the best answer for this question.
My stance is that a high execution character should not have more tools than everyone in the cast but a tool that requires high execution should be better than a tool that requires low execution. However... character and the move should still be balanced within the context of the game. The best example I can think of is something like Devil Jin in Tekken. He has a move that is absurdly good, the EWGF but it requires a 1 frame link to pull off. It does a lot for its execution but it still has the weakness of not hitting mid so it can be ducked and punished. And even with EWGF.. the rest of the character is balanced with this tool in mind so he doesn't have many + on block moves meaning he has to play more carefully and master his mobility.
I ain't gonna lie. I tried the demo of KOFXIII a while back and looked at the inputs for some of those moves and went "lolnope" and never went back. I have a hard enough time with marvel and it's to my understanding that the inputs in that game are simplified and have a wider input window that most. the players at EVO a year or two ago make it look fun, but I'd never remotely approach that lvl of execution.
KOF13 has many shortcuts(not sfiv style shortcuts). Some are all purpose shortcuts, and some are built into the character, and only that character. The game has button holding to make combos easier, and input shortcuts to input supers a different way.
Doing a good portion of the kof13 trials has made my execution a lot better. If you only play sfiv, god help you, because these will be brutal for you. If I didn't play other games including kof, playing BB or gg would of been fairly difficult for me.
i just want to single this out because i will never forgive the phrase 'light speed netcode'
also the balance between execution and reward is inherently rough because you can skew it terribly and end up getting something like c. viper whom it seems like most folks find to be an abomination of character design.. ultimately execution should matter but it shouldn't feel like a necessity until you begin reaching high levels.
folks should be able to get by with beginner combos and be able to jump right into the meat of the game but those combos should always be less effective than real combos.
though marvel's damage is all kinds of messed up it's a pretty good way of demonstrating the difference overall in 'well done'- basic combos won't kill, but doing 'em usually leads to a somewhat reset situation and you're still a decent contender doing so.
on the other hand, real combos will kill every single dude or close to it while putting you in a extremely strong reset situation. the kill is super important in marvel though because then they stop getting to play and you have a chance to sweep 'em on incoming- meaning that the payoff for having some form of knowledge and execution about your character's combos lets you potentially win
executionally the game is easy overall compared to other stuff though- i personally don't have a problem with it at all since mine is total ass but i can definitely see why a lot of folks wish otherwise.
I don't agree tbh. I don't certain aspects of games should be artificially hard based on arbitrary factors. Being able to actually rush down is hard in itself if you're playing against someone who is just as competent as you are.
