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死生観の違い？ 価値観の違い？ 『ファイナルファンタジーⅩⅤ』で知られる田畑端氏と、日本のRPG へ強いリスペクトを抱くフランス人クリエイターが語る、東西のRPGの違い

西洋のRPGはプレイヤーがストーリーを作っていく。JRPGはキャラクターの選択を“見る”側として体験できる。東西RPGの違いを『ファイナルファンタジーⅩⅤ』田畑端氏と『Expedition 33』ギヨーム・ブロッシュ氏が語った

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Machine translation of the entire Q/A

--Thank you for joining us today. There are many parts of "Expedition 33" that show respect for JRPGs, but are JRPGs popular in France to begin with?


Guillaume Bloche (hereafter referred to as Guillaume):
Japanese manga and anime are very popular in France. In particular, a lot of Japanese anime was broadcast on television from the 1990s to the 2000s. I grew up in that era, and as a video game fan, I naturally became interested in JRPGs.


However, looking at France as a whole, I don't think JRPGs are particularly noticed there.


Hajime Tabata (hereinafter referred to as Tabata):
So it was a perfect match for Guillaume's tastes?


Guillaume:
I think so. Actually, my first home video game console was the original PlayStation, and the first game I played was Final Fantasy VIII (FF8). I learned how to play video games and the language through FF8. I was bad at games at the time, and I couldn't beat the boss and couldn't get ahead at all (laughs).


After that, I started playing the FF series and grew to love it.

Guillaume:
What I like about the FF series is, first of all, the grandeur of the worldview. The scale of the story is huge. Also, each character is well-crafted and has a unique personality, so I end up liking them more and more every time I play.


Furthermore, each work in the FF series has a completely different worldview, so I think one of the attractions is that you can experience something new every time. It's because of all of this that I've come to really love FF.


Of course, the game system itself is interesting, including the turn-based battles, and the music is wonderful. Everything is in harmony, and the sense of unity is irresistible. I worship Nobuo Uematsu 's music .


Tabata:
What other games did you play besides FF?


Guillaume:
"Suikoden" , "Atelier" series, "Shadow Hearts" , "Persona" series, "Legend of Dragoon" , "Shin Megami Tensei" ... I've played every Japanese game (laughs). I've been playing JRPGs since I was a child, so when I bought new games, I naturally only chose JRPGs.


Tabata:
I see, that makes sense. I just watched the gameplay, and it seems like it has a lot of JRPG genes, not just Final Fantasy (laughs).


Guillaume:
Yes, I think all of my experiences have been packed into this work.

The backlash and reevaluation of "JRPGs". The difference between JRPGs that "focus on the character's story" and overseas RPGs where "the player creates the story"

--In the early 2000s, JRPGs were sometimes perceived negatively. However, in recent years, they have been reevaluated and are now accepted as a positive and attractive genre. What do you think about this transition?


Tabata:
That was certainly the case. I would like to know what France was like at that time and what Guillaume was thinking.


Guillaume:
Even in France, the early to late 2000swas a time when JRPGs were very harshly received . For example, Lost Odyssey was very harshly received in Europe at the time, and I think it was a time when the JRPG genre itself was poorly received. Due to this influence, the number of new JRPGs released also decreased.



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* Lost Odyssey: An RPG for Xbox 360 released by Microsoft in 2007. Produced by Hironobu Sakaguchi, with participation from a stellar lineup including Nobuo Uematsu, Takehiko Inoue, and Kiyoshi Shigematsu. Set in a world where an industrial revolution has occurred due to the discovery of an unknown energy called "magic power," the story depicts the battle of an immortal man who takes on the intensifying war.
I've always loved JRPGs, and I thought Lost Odyssey was a really great game, so I was really stressed by those reviews. However, there were fewer new JRPGs, so I may have spent more time playing fighting games like Guilty Gear at the time.


However, as times change, my respect for and values towards JRPGs have not wavered at all... At my core, I have always loved JRPGs, and I think that feeling is reflected in "Expedition 33."


--How do you two analyze the differences between RPGs made in Japan and those made overseas?


Tabata:
For example, in Japanese RPGs, enemies need a reason to fight. I think that's a very Japanese element at its root. In Japanese content culture, that kind of thing is very important.


Also, in Japanese RPGs, it's common for characters who were originally enemies to join forces when they face a new strong enemy. This is a plot that can also be seen in manga and anime, but I think the characteristic of Japanese RPGs is that you save the world together with your friends while experiencing such Japanese values.


Japanese entertainment works, even those aimed at children, have a proper "enemy," but in the end, the final boss has a change of heart (laughs). I think this kind of plot development is a very Japanese characteristic.


I feel that in the past, RPGs that strongly reflect Japanese values like these were seen in the West as being a bit childish, or "Japanese RPGs."


On the other hand, in recent years, a lot of Japanese content has spread around the world and Japanese values have come to be highly regarded, so I believe that the image of the term JRPG has changed significantly.


Guillaume:
In Europe,I think it's more common for the ending to be a gruesome one, with all the enemies dying (laughs).


Tabata:
That's right. I really feel the difference.


In terms of Japanese RPGs, I think the element of "growth" is also important. The protagonist is weak and unable to accomplish anything at first, but grows through adventures with his companions and achieves a big goal at the end. This flow is also very Japanese.


Guillaume:
There's a common Western joke that goes, "In Japanese games, you start off by defeating rats, but in the end you end up defeating God .


Tabata:
That's right. In order to grow and save the world, it's important that you fight to the death even against rats at first (laughs).

Everyone:
(laughs).


Tabata:
But maybe it's because of this flow that each player has their own "own story" when they finish playing the game. Japanese RPGs are the kind of content that gives you that kind of feeling after reading the book.


Although the scenario is merely a scenario, as the player progresses through trial and error, a story that ultimately becomes "the player's own memory" is born. I think that is what makes Japanese RPGs unique.


Guillaume:
In Western RPGs, the ending changes depending on the choices you make, so I have a strong impression that the player creates the story . I think that Japanese RPGs are linear, for better or worse, because they have such a strong story. I think being able to experience the character's choices as a "viewer" is a big difference in expression.


Tabata:
I'd like to hear a bit more about Western RPGs.


Guillaume:
Western RPGs tend to maintain a serious tone from start to finish. They often depict a consistent, down-to-earth, realistic worldview from A to Z. That kind of production style certainly has a sense of reality, but to be honest, sometimes I find it a little lacking.


On the other hand, JRPGs have the thrill of immersing yourself in a spectacular world you've never seen before . On top of that, rather than being involved in the story's choices, you follow the growth of JRPG characters as you watch their stories unfold. And then you see that growth in yourself. I really like that perspective, and that's why I'm so drawn to JRPGs.


Tabata:
With the growth system, characters are no longer just something to "watch"; rather, rather than following a scenario, the player feels like they are one with the character, making for a more immersive system.


Guillaume:
I completely agree. Japanese RPGs are really well-crafted and multi-layered when it comes to growth systems and game progression .


That was also the case with FF8, the first game I played. The junction system is incredibly complicated, and it takes time to understand it at first. But once you understand it, the system is deep, and it's a lot of fun to think about how to use it in your strategy and how to build your character.


I think that's what gives it a different appeal than Western RPGs.


--When creating a RPG, what kind of experience do you want to provide to the player, and what do you want them to feel?


Tabata:
Rather than narrowing it down to one answer, there are many different aspects to it.


But I've been making Final Fantasy for a long time, and because I love making RPGs, I think the best thing about RPGs is that they allow you to experience saving the world. After all, saving the world is a great thing, right?


Because we want to take users to a world they've never seen before, we pay particular attention to the worldview, and our companions become important, and we grow together and accomplish something. That's a very important aspect of Japanese RPGs.


Through these experiences, I hope that players can experience the importance of working together with others and the emotional impact of accomplishing something. So I would be happy if the players' hearts grow even a little by playing the game .


-- I see. I understand that very well.


Tabata:
Also, this may be a rare thought, but I've always thought , "I hope that people who play my games will want to make games." I want people to know that "making games is fun." That hasn't changed in my current job and position, and I actually have a desire to "increase the number of game creators."I want to tell people that "creating games is fun ."


--So in that case, your message was definitely conveyed to Guillaume.


Tabata:
I think Guillaume became a creator by playing a variety of games. That's a really wonderful thing.

 

[Punished Miku]

I think JRPGs are going through one of their lowest periods currently, not the 2000s where I thought it was actually good, but now. Ironically, they're fairly popular and no one seems to agree. Atlus is too slow, plays it way too safe, and doesn't keep up with current technology, or graphics tech at all with PS3-tier content at full price. Final Fantasy XVI was a catastrophic mistake, and SQEX output is heavily hobbled by the horrible decision to put their premiere development team on remakes for a decade. I can't imagine a more irresponsible decision. Xenoblade is quality, but 4 entries in a row is pushing it for me. Yakuza is pretty decent as well, but also very repetitive.

I think Clair Obscura is getting so much attention because it looks good, and it stands out, and sadly is undeniable proof of the problems with many JRPGs in this lost decade we're currently in for the genre. A small team can make this on their first try, with modern graphics, supposedly mature and interesting story, and it stands out and is getting everyone's attention and it's being sold for less than full price. It's a new IP with a weird name and it still is standing out because JRPGs are heavily stagnating right now aside from NieR Automata years ago, and Triangle Strategy which is an all time great SRPG. We keep seeing small indie teams pull off stuff that large Japanese teams are just not doing, like Sea of Stars. Why? How did we get to the point that people tolerate $70-100 Atelier games when they're mostly a bit crap?