Support NeoGAF

[Broseybrose]

2 questions: Why isnt Firion the boss we thought he would be against Ifrit?

Second, is there any use for the raid coins other than summoning?

edit- Taking into account everything Ive learned in the last two pages and giving it my best, ELT still seems too much for me. Im just one-shotting PRO for now.

However I did all the Gilga trial missions in one try, thanks to everything I learned reading up on strats yesterday! So thank you all for that.

 

[Syntsui]

The more I play with this raid, the more I love me it. This is the type of event wild should get every week, absurd at first but perfectly manageable once you study it.

Immunity to paralysis is also far from a must, just dedicate one unit to take care of it like CoD or Luka.

2 questions: Why isnt Firion the boss we thought he would be against Ifrit?

Also, is there any use for the raid coins other than summoning?

Firion is great, the thing is, literally dozen of us here have better units than him. There is no reason to use one if we have Noctis, Olive or Yun. Considering how a well structured team is necessary for the ELT, Firion simply has no space on most of the teams.

 

[Lyrian]

FINALLY. LONG LIVE GAF.

That was probably a 30 minute fight for me. I'm not doing that again. The DPS just isn't there. The fight is tuned to maybe the top one half of one percent of players. My 600 ATK Luneth and 725 ATK Elza with beast slayer just doesn't cut here. Players really need 800+ ATK units with the fire and paralysis resist to do any meaningful damage in this fight.

But, the telltale piece of data I wanted was the base payout for ELT for evaluation.

As noted in the pic, ELT has a 7000 point base payout. PRO has a base payout of 2400 points.

7000/2400 = 2.917

Thus, for the 99.5% of the server who can't clear ELT efficiently, you'll need TRIPLE the runs to clear all the individual progression prizes. This is quite a stark difference from previous events where ELT was only slightly more efficient than PRO.

Ifrit hit 12, and advanced the same number of HP as it did when it hit 11. That means that the hill that the server has to climb gets steeper at fixed intervals (either every 5th or 10th level). Next major difficulty jump to watch for will be when Ifrit levels from 15 to 16.

 

[Valentus]

Even wol now rekt poor ifrit

 

[Celegus]

Firion doesn't bring anything besides damage, and pure damage isn't the solution to most of the really hard battles. Gotta survive long enough and chip away! He also doesn't resist paralyze like some others do, which can get pretty hairy in elite.

Why using Ramza Valentus? His singing or something else?

 

[The Silver]

they should give us 6 star Wolly already

 

[Syntsui]

My Firion with all of Noctis gear has 748ATK (Noctis had 899), the beast killer should make up for the difference, as soon as the orb recharge I'll test.

 

[Shouta]

FINALLY. LONG LIVE GAF.



That was probably a 30 minute fight for me. I'm not doing that again. The DPS just isn't there. The fight is tuned to maybe the top one half of one percent of players. My 600 ATK Luneth and 725 ATK Elza with beast slayer just doesn't cut here. Players really need 800+ ATK units with the fire and paralysis resist to do any meaningful damage in this fight.

But, the telltale piece of data I wanted was the base payout for ELT for evaluation.

As noted in the pic, ELT has a 7000 point base payout. PRO has a base payout of 2400 points.

7000/2400 = 2.917

Thus, for the 99.5% of the server who can't clear ELT efficiently, you'll need TRIPLE the runs to clear all the individual progression prizes. This is quite a stark difference from previous events where ELT was only slightly more efficient than PRO.

Ifrit hit 12, and advanced the same number of HP as it did when it hit 11. That means that the hill that the server has to climb gets steeper at fixed intervals (either every 5th or 10th level). Next major difficulty jump to watch for will be when Ifrit levels from 15 to 16.

Pay outs for runs increase as Ifrit levels up, and you get points/coins for failing as well. So if you can generate more points in ELT than Pro, it's worth running even if you die. That's purely from a Raid achievement standpoint though. You don't get Gil, char XP, or Player XP from it though.

 

[Visceir]

2 questions: Why isnt Firion the boss we thought he would be against Ifrit?

He is definitely a top tier damage dealer for this event if you kit him right. The issue probably is that most people have trouble surviving in first place, so there's little room for a pure damage dealer who doesn't do anything else but dish out dmg.

 

[Valentus]

FINALLY

 

[mstevens]

How achievable is getting Y'shotola from the individual rewards if I'm just doing Pro? Am I going to have to refill way more than is sensible?

 

[Visceir]

How achievable is getting Y'shotola from the individual rewards if I'm just doing Pro? Am I going to have to refill way more than is sensible?

No refills needed

 

[Azuran]

All these Noctis on my friend list with no Ifrits or Jeweled Rings

/disgusted

 

[Lyrian]

Pay outs for runs increase as Ifrit levels up, and you get points/coins for failing as well. So if you can generate more points in ELT than Pro, it's worth running even if you die. That's purely from a Raid achievement standpoint though. You don't get Gil, char XP, or Player XP from it though.

That's reflected in the bonus point payout, not the base point payout. So, ELT will always pay out ~2.92 times the raid coins for the same percentage of damage inflicted to Ifrit.

You are correct though. One additional calculation:

100/2.917 = 34.28

The breakeven point on ELT with PRO is at ~65% life remaining. If a player can inflict that much damage to Ifrit on a single run before wiping, then it run will be more efficient in terms of raid coins than PRO.

That said, as you note, that's a lot of lost rank XP for all of those wipes. That lost rank XP adds up pretty fast at 300 per run lost running ELT (if a player can live long enough to clear 35% of ELT Ifrit's life, PRO is likely trivial to them).

FINALLY

Grats! She's still eluding me so far.

 

[Broseybrose]

And the only use for raid coins is raid summons, correct?

 

[Xion86]

All these Noctis on my friend list with no Ifrits or Jeweled Rings

/disgusted

Yeah it's becoming a pain to check for Jeweled Ring before every fight now .

Well I'm done for the night. I've had quite a few successful ELT runs which didn't take too long so know what to do now. I only have one problem, which is that one unit will always get Paralized and having to sort that out each round is annoying. Also it's that unit which dies the most. Tried Cloud of Darkness, Rain and Firion (currently with Rain, who I only use for his Leadership skill every now and then). I can still win, it's just annoying to manage that character every round.

In other news, I'm at the end of Final Fantasy V and can't defeat the final form of the last boss, sigh .

 

[PantherLotus]

Sorry I'm just happy for Lyrian after seeing you struggle with is fight all day. Good job man.

Wish me luck! I didn't even scratch him my first couple tries!

 

[Visceir]

And the only use for raid coins is raid summons, correct?

You could sell them for a nice sum of gil.

 

[Shouta]

That's reflected in the bonus point payout, not the base point payout. So, ELT will always pay out ~2.92 times the raid coins for the same percentage of damage inflicted to Ifrit.

You are correct though. One additional calculation:

100/2.917 = 34.28

The breakeven point on ELT with PRO is at ~65% life remaining. If a player can inflict that much damage to Ifrit on a single run before wiping, then it run will be more efficient in terms of raid coins than PRO.

That said, as you note, that's a lot of lost rank XP for all of those wipes. That lost rank XP adds up pretty fast at 300 per run lost running ELT (if a player can live long enough to clear 35% of ELT Ifrit's life, PRO is likely trivial to them).



Grats! She's still eluding me so far.

The point is that you don't need to chase ELT runs to chase coins or the individual rewards as the speed that you will get them will increase as the event goes on. ELT runners will get done faster obviously but if you're clearing ELT, I feel like that should be the reward for being able to do so.

Anyway, I just noticed Raid Summon is 50x per multi-pull. JP raids just got this super recently so another improvement GL is getting very quickly, lol.

 

[Broseybrose]

You could sell them for a nice sum of gil.

Didnt even think of that. Good to know for once Ive pulled Yshtola/mats.

Now that you mention it, Im sure ill have tons of mats to sell also.

 

[Visceir]

Didnt even think of that. Good to know for once Ive pulled Yshtola/mats.

Now that you mention it, Im sure ill have tons of mats to sell also.

It's worth to pull to get some TMs via fusing dupes.

 

[Syntsui]

Ok, after testing it properly I can say a maxed (no pots 748ATK) Firion does a bit more damage than a maxed (potted 899ATK) Noctis to Ifrit, so if he is the only option you have, you might as well know he is a damn fine one.

Considering Noctis can Cover, Arise, debuffs etc. It can't be argued that he is better, but damage-wise Firion does the job due to the killers and will be even better with enhancements.

So a Refia, Firion, CoD, Cecil, Rain + a powerful friend is all you need to beat him. Put the paralysis resist on CoD and use Return every turn (the first turn can be used for barfira), max Firion's ATK and chain it with the friend's unit attack, Rain should Undermine every turn (DW improves the chance of a break), put as much fire resistance as possible on everyone (prioritizing Refia and Cecil), keep healing/focus/embolden up whenever it is appropriate (dualcast is a must and if you have 2 even better).

Everyone should have at least 5k HP and you have to pray for RNGesus most of the time (don't be ashamed to close the game before his turn is over), but all things considered only dualcast is an absolute must here. All the others just make the fight faster and safer, but with some MP management it should be doable without top tier TMs.

 

[across]

2 questions: Why isnt Firion the boss we thought he would be against Ifrit?

Just have to put it into perspective. He's good - in terms of raw damage, he's below Olive and Yun, roughly in the vicinity of a not-quite-max-but-close Noctis - for non-5* bases I think he's as good as it gets. He has two problems in this raid specifically: he doesn't have status immunity (so that's -1 accessory slot) and he can't equip heavy armor without his own damned TM (that's -50% fire res for not being able to access Flame Mail) This doesn't matter if he's your Ifrit holder but if he isn't then things get dicey.

I clear ELT consistently now with very little effort, and I'm still running him. Primarily because I have no other competitive option. Fin Briar does ~100k x2 or so with buffs & breaks up. He also has access to Lance for a full self-heal in situations where that's relevant. But he's still a 3* base.

 

[Azuran]

OH MY GOD, I had him but Focus ran out which ended up killing both Refia and Ling. I'm so used to Embolden that I assumed Focus was a five turn buff.

Anyways, I think I finally got this figured out. Spamming Thunder Flask and Daunting Step during turn 1 and 3 ensures MAG break will stick for the destruction. I'm starting to believe some of the buffs aren't sticking at times means you have to spam as many as you can to be safe. I don't worry much about ATK at times because Warp Break ensures is always up at least by 30%. Once I add Rain to the fun, it should be a piece of cake since he can work on either debuffing or buffing freeing up Ling and Refia to do something else when needed.

I'll get his ass for sure next time. I also wish I had a Luneth because he would be so useful. Flame Mail + Innate Para resist? Yes pls!

 

[wilstreak]

wow, with how difficult current content is, i think should focus more on building defensive TMR instead of offensive TMR.
The problem with Ifrit is just trying to stay alive through the day.

even with ATK/MAG debuff, barfira, focus, if RNG demand it, it can still kill my Refia with Flame Shield and Minerva Bustier.

 

[Lyrian]

The point is that you don't need to chase ELT runs to chase coins or the individual rewards as the speed that you will get them will increase as the event goes on. ELT runners will get done faster obviously but if you're clearing ELT, I feel like that should be the reward for being able to do so.

I agree that rewards should come faster if a player can clear the much harder difficulty efficiently.

That said, I am skeptical about the rate of increasing coins as the event goes on. The rate of increase will continually slow as time progresses. As the event will run for 2 weeks, I expect eventually for Global to hit a wall in terms of adding to the bonus rate.

At current pace, my theory should be confirmed by tomorrow night, Sunday morning at the latest. The addition HP per level for Ifrit appears to be doubling every 5 levels. I'm expecting the hard wall to be hit shortly after level 21.

 

[PantherLotus]

sounds like Thunder Flask x2 + Daunting Step every other turn is the way to go

 

[Lyrian]

Sorry I'm just happy for Lyrian after seeing you struggle with is fight all day. Good job man.

Wish me luck! I didn't even scratch him my first couple tries!

Thanks!

Hope you finally get him as well! I just don't have the DPS/TMs to bring him into farmable territory.

Remember to check the status screen every turn to ensure that you have all buffs up on your side and all times and bring 2 breaker units to deal with Ifrit, as he has a flat 30% chance to resist each break type and the game will not put up a resist message telling you a break was resisted.

 

[across]

To any gaffers with Olive or Yun, neither of these units need to be shared with status protection (they're both natively paralyze immune) and IMO they don't need any extra Fire Res from Red Ring or similar, as long as you're sharing them with Ifrit.

 

[NomarTyme]

they should give us 6 star Wolly already

Seriously.

I'm trying ELT again with gaffers knowledge and know how.

 

[The Silver]

man it sucks when atk break doesn't stick on the 1st turn, it's a scramble to recover.

I'm using:
Yun
Refia
Cecil
Rain
Cerius(will replace with Minfilia if cactuars come back)

Besides Rain who can I safely replace with another unit that has attack break. I was thinking replace Cecil with Noctis but I'd lose focus on the 1st round(and his curaja but I hardly use it), I think I can handle that, his physical aoe is the real killer.

 

[Celegus]

Thancred TM #1 get. Wonder how many I'll end up with!

 

[Ken]

imagine if they made it so GL gilgamesh had % chance to resist a seal

 

[Shouta]

I agree that rewards should come faster if a player can clear the much harder difficulty efficiently.

That said, I am skeptical about the rate of increasing coins as the event goes on. The rate of increase will continually slow as time progresses. As the event will run for 2 weeks, I expect eventually for Global to hit a wall in terms of adding to the bonus rate.

At current pace, my theory should be confirmed by tomorrow night, Sunday morning at the latest. The addition HP per level for Ifrit appears to be doubling every 5 levels. I'm expecting the hard wall to be hit shortly after level 21.

Ifrit's levels are gonna hit a wall when people stop running the event because they have all the rewards or are tired of it. As I recall, JP raids often hit a pretty high peak and then stays there. Even if folks aren't doing it enough to get the next level, you only go back 1 level on Ifrit's global meter so runs later during the event still net you more.

For reference, most raid events in JP that I can clear ELT/Kakusei quickly netted me 2000 raid coins towards the second-half of the event. First clears started around 1200~ coins or so I think? I was basically drowning in coins towards the end.

Also, the system of putting out moogles for the event characters becomes common after the. The way the units appear for the event will be different. Some will raids will have the units in the Lapis summon (Romancing Saga 3) or it will be only in the Raid gatcha (FFXIV, art contest winner) and in some cases, it'll be mixed like with the Monster Hunter raid. In any case, it's a really good time to try and get the TMRs for those units.

 

[Azuran]

man it sucks when atk break doesn't stick on the 1st turn, it's a scramble to recover.

I'm using:
Yun
Refia
Cecil
Rain
Cerius(will replace with Minfilia if cactuars come back)

Besides Rain who can I safely replace with another unit that has attack break. I was thinking replace Cecil with Noctis but I'd lose focus on the 1st round(and his curaja but I hardly use it), I think I can handle that, his physical aoe is the real killer.

I don't think you need Cerius for this battle. Barfira is enough to get through this. Stick one on Cecil and you're good to go.

Ensuring MAG and ATK break are always up (especially on turn 1, 3, 6...) is more important and Noctis does that along with Rain.

 

[The Silver]

I don't think you need Cerius for this battle. Barfira is enough to get through this. Stick one on Cecil and you're good to go.

Ensuring MAG and ATK break are always up (especially on turn 1, 3, 6...) is more important and Noctis does that along with Rain.

I'll try it out

 

[SeanTSC]

Making pretty short work of ELT now with a lot of retooling.

Running Cecil, Refia, Ling, Ramza, and Noctis and he's just not doing very much damage to me anymore with resists, breaks, and buffs constantly up. Plus everyone but Ramza is immune to Paralyze (and he has 50% innate resist). That helps a lot too. Friends with Jeweled rings on definitely help a lot.

 

[shintoki]

So if I have time, I run elite. If I don't, I run pro.

 

[PantherLotus]

Making pretty short work of ELT now with a lot of retooling.

Running Cecil, Refia, Ling, Ramza, and Noctis and he's just not doing very much damage to me anymore with resists, breaks, and buffs constantly up. Plus everyone but Ramza is immune to Paralyze (and he has 50% innate resist). That helps a lot too. Friends with Jeweled rings on definitely help a lot.

are you doing thunder flask or warp break with noctis?

 

[Celegus]

You still get raid points and coins for losing to Ifrit, right? I'm going to rank up pretty much right away in the morning, so maybe it would behoove me to fail 4 times on purpose and then win the 5th to rank up? Is that how it works? I haven't actually wiped yet so I don't know for sure.

 

[across]

I remain convinced that the only legitimately silly part of this fight is break resistance. If you aren't bringing a backup breaker you're rolling the dice in a big way.

I also think releasing it prior to Warrior of Light's 6* form is a classic stitch-up by Gumi for a lot of players.

Ramza is a great help in smoothing ELT out considerably at the cost of some kill speed, for anyone who has him.

 

[Lyrian]

Ifrit's levels are gonna hit a wall when people stop running the event because they have all the rewards or are tired of it. As I recall, JP raids often hit a pretty high peak and then stays there. Even if folks aren't doing it enough to get the next level, you only go back 1 level on Ifrit's global meter so runs later during the event still net you more.

For reference, most raid events in JP that I can clear ELT/Kakusei quickly netted me 2000 raid coins towards the second-half of the event. First clears started around 1200~ coins or so I think? I was basically drowning in coins towards the end.

Also, the system of putting out moogles for the event characters becomes common after the. The way the units appear for the event will be different. Some will raids will have the units in the Lapis summon (Romancing Saga 3) or it will be only in the Raid gatcha (FFXIV, art contest winner) and in some cases, it'll be mixed like with the Monster Hunter raid. In any case, it's a really good time to try and get the TMRs for those units.

Good points. As the raid will last for 2 weeks, unlike on JP, it will be interesting to see how the behavior of the server develops as time progresses and all the rewards are obtained.

You still get raid points and coins for losing to Ifrit, right? I'm going to rank up pretty much right away in the morning, so maybe it would behoove me to fail 4 times on purpose and then win the 5th to rank up? Is that how it works? I haven't actually wiped yet so I don't know for sure.

That is correct. Failing a run on ELT will earn raid points of [(Your Total Damage / 4 million) * (7200 * (1 + bonus rate))] , but not earn any rank xp at all.

 

[NomarTyme]

I want to thank all the gaffers for the advice. I was fighting with my head chopped off. ELT is pretty doable if you break at every turn with at least two breakers. Again thank you gaffers!

 

[Shouta]

Good points. As the raid will last for 2 weeks, unlike on JP, it will be interesting to see how the behavior of the server develops as time progresses and all the rewards are obtained.



That is correct. Failing a run on ELT will earn raid points of [(Your Total Damage / 4 million) * (7200 * (1 + bonus rate))] , but not earn any rank xp at all.

Raids are 2 weeks in JP too, as far as I can remember. Occasionally, there might be an outlier though.

 

[Lyrian]

An interesting development...

Ifrit just hit level 13.

His HP went up in the expected amount for levels 11-15 of 200 million/level (1.2 trillion --> 1.4 trillion).

However, for the first time, the allotted time window for clearing the HP pool **decreased** (18 hours --> 15 hours).

Global might hit the wall for Ifrit's level bonus faster than I had originally thought if the time window to clear the HP pool continues to decrease from this point forward while his HP pool itself continues to increase with each new level.

 

[Lyrian]

Raids are 2 weeks in JP too, as far as I can remember. Occasionally, there might be an outlier though.

Also good to know. Many on other boards (like Reddit) have said that this raid on JP was only for 1 week. I suppose the timing of future raids changed after this one.

At 2 weeks in length, I can definitely see fatigue setting in for many well before the end of the raid period itself.

 

[Prototype]

4000 coin pull
4 Thancred 0 other characters
: (

At least I have Minfillia. Hope I can get Yosi by grinding PRO, I have less than zero chance in ELT lol.

 

[Syntsui]

Yshtola is just a myth, she wasn't released.

 

[bryt]

Add me if you guys need a 830 ATK Noctis with Ifrit and Jeweled Ring.

943,290,204

 

[The Silver]

man something weird happened, I was doing ELT like usual, got all the breaks(I checked and do them every turn) and all the buffs up and it was time for Ifrit to do his super move on turn 3. For some reason this time he hit REALLY hard, two units went down and Yun barely survived, I still won in the end but I have no idea what the fuck happened there, like it wasn't just him spamming vulcan, he only used it once.