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[ULTROS!]

Do you really want to read this spoiler? I'll try to be as vague as possible.

Spoiler

It plays the credits at the end of the scene, and the player unlocked the "saw a conclusion to the story" gold trophy. However, he could go back in time and reverse time (and get additional Time Fragments--how you get these is by doing sidequests to clear up time paradoxes in each era) to presumably get another ending since it took him back to the Historia Crux screen. He still had a bunch of nodes that were locked off from him as well.

Actually I read it but I was sort of expecting that. :lol So basically

Spoiler

it's not the real ending and it's like some shitty time fragment?

 

[RedRedSuit]

Not to get the thread too off tangent, but have FF games ever had interesting/well designed dungeons? Or do you just mean Square RPGs in general? The PS1 era FF games (besides FFIX, maybe) have boring, 3-4 screen "dungeons" with barely any traps or puzzles. The dungeons in those games were more like scenarios with enemies (especially FFVIII).

The SNES and NES era FF games had actual dungeons, but even then there weren't too many interesting ones. FFVI had the most interesting dungeons (Floating Continent, Magitek Factory, Kefka's Tower, etc.).

I don't think dungeons were ever their strong points. I guess people like these games because of their flash and style. Sure, the battle systems are usually fun and the music is always notable, but their dungeon design has always been flat. They're a spectacle at this point and that does it for most people, I guess. I've grown bored with the franchise, honestly, and one major reason is because of the fact that they never produce anything interesting in the dungeon department.

From the looks of XIII, the hook looks like it's derived from collecting shit in larger environments and events that change here and there. I want to play this game at some point, but I'm not expecting any area/dungeon to set off those 'aha' triggers in my brain like the ones I get and from games like Wild ARMs and Golden Sun.

Well, XII had very complex dungeons actually.

In general, however, what I want out of dungeons/field is not necessarily something complex or particularly mentally stimulating; what I want is a sense of exploration. XIII was, really, mostly, a straight line. X was also annoying in this regard.

It's not really a high bar, to be honest. A lot of the things FF fans clamor for are not high bars. Things like... some character interaction outside cutscenes; dungeons that are not simply corridors -- or maybe a field map; some hubs/towns/whatever to stop and relax. We clamor for some things that really are hard... like a great story, or a great battle system design; XIII delivered only on half of that. But to not deliver on some of the basics while not giving us anything really outstanding other than graphics and battles in the last half of the game? Very disappointing.

 

[ZephyrFate]

FFXIII-2 can be described as having FFX-like dungeons, with a dash of XII here and there. It's not as overly large or boring as XII's dungeons were, but it isn't as boxed-in as XIII's were, at all.

 

[Zzoram]

Is it easy to get confused about what to do in FFXIII-2? Is there some kind of quest log to help you keep track of the quests?

 

[Yuterald]

Well, XII had very complex dungeons actually.

In general, however, what I want out of dungeons/field is not necessarily something complex or particularly mentally stimulating; what I want is a sense of exploration. XIII was, really, mostly, a straight line. X was also annoying in this regard.

FFXII dungeons were complex in a sense that its structure was complicated or rather the architect was grand. I guess that's the best way to put it, lol! There wasn't really anything interesting about the dungeons though. They had enemies, events, and MAYBE some switch puzzles. A more modern example of this 'grand' dungeon design would be Xenoblade. There wasn't anything too interesting about the dungeons in that game either. They were mainly filled with enemies, events, and items, which is fine if that's what you're going for.

I think it's difficult to try and balance it all. There is no perfect RPG. There's give and take with everything. I don't think anyone has designed dungeons as cool and interesting as a Wild ARMs or Golden Sun game and still provided a deep battle system and all the other great things that go into RPGs. Look at SMT games. Nocturne, DDS, etc. they're fucking corridor games! But they have deep as shit battle systems that are FAR more interesting and engaging than really any other RPG. It just depends on your preference or mood and that's what's fun about being into a wide assortment of RPGs. I just tend to prefer the ones that try and strike at all the elements that make them so great.

 

[Lady Bird]

They somehow made an even worse story? Ugh. When will S-E hire a legit writer?

From what I've read (although there isn't still much), it makes the original game's story look "good".

 

[ZephyrFate]

FFXII dungeons were complex in a sense that its structure was complicated or rather the architect was grand. I guess that's the best way to put it, lol! There wasn't really anything interesting about the dungeons though. They had enemies, events, and MAYBE some switch puzzles. A more modern example of this 'grand' dungeon design would be Xenoblade. There wasn't anything too interesting about the dungeons in that game either. They were mainly filled with enemies, events, and items, which is fine if that's what you're going for.

I think it's difficult to try and balance it all. There is no perfect RPG. There's give and take with everything. I don't think anyone has designed dungeons as cool and interesting as a Wild ARMs or Golden Sun game and still provided a deep battle system and all the other great things that go into RPGs. Look at SMT games. Nocturne, DDS, etc. they're fucking corridor games! But they have deep as shit battle systems that are FAR more interesting and engaging than really any other RPG. It just depends on your preference or mood and that's what's fun about being into a wide assortment of RPGs. I just tend to prefer the ones that try and strike at all the elements that make them so great.

SMT is hardly a "corridor" game. It has actually awesome dungeons.

 

[Kagari]

From what I've read (although there isn't still much), it makes the original game's story look "good".

What. Nooooo...

 

[Toth]

Actually I read it but I was sort of expecting that. :lol So basically

Spoiler

it's not the real ending and it's like some shitty time fragment?

Yeah people are overreacting because the trophy

Spoiler

never says 'true ending', It says 'saw the story through to the conclusion." It is probably the generic one you get for each ending. There is an other trophy for seeing all the endings. The 'to be continued; tag line probably means you need to go back and fix time so that ending does not occur

.

 

[Dark Schala]

^Yeah, pretty much... though I'd spoiler that entire text, tbh. Edit: Good man.

What. Nooooo...

C'mon, you knew going in that the overall plot wasn't going to be very good! :lol

 

[Zzoram]

It's a shame that Final Fantasy doesn't have good stories though.

 

[ZephyrFate]

It's a shame that Final Fantasy doesn't have good stories though.

IX would beg to differ, regardless of Necron.

 

[Zzoram]

That's the past. I want new Final Fantasy games with good stories. Why did FFXIII-2 have to have a worse story than FXIII? Was that something people didn't criticize enough? They seemed to address many of the other issues.

 

[ZephyrFate]

That's the past. I want new Final Fantasy games with good stories. Why did FFXIII-2 have to have a worse story than FXIII? Was that something people didn't criticize enough? They seemed to address many of the other issues.

Same writing director. I'm not really playing XIII-2 for story anyway.

 

[~Kinggi~]

From what I've read (although there isn't still much), it makes the original game's story look "good".

heh, hehehehehe, ahahahahahahaha, wait wat, hahahahahahahha

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

That's the past. I want new Final Fantasy games with good stories. Why did FFXIII-2 have to have a worse story than FXIII? Was that something people didn't criticize enough? They seemed to address many of the other issues.

Toriyama thinks he's a good writer, and there's no one at Square-Enix telling him otherwise.

 

[Dark Schala]

That's the past. I want new Final Fantasy games with good stories. Why did FFXIII-2 have to have a worse story than FXIII? Was that something people didn't criticize enough? They seemed to address many of the other issues.

It's written by Toriyama and involves time travel?

 

[BocoDragon]

They had to make the story suck. It's part of the XIII canon.

 

[Thoraxes]

Don't you guys know that people can have different opinions than you and like what others consider bad?

 

[Zzoram]

So does Toriyama get to keep writing trash because he's an elder that no one will disrespect by calling out his shitty stories?

 

[Zzoram]

Don't you guys know that people can have different opinions than you and like what others consider bad?

You thought FFXIII had a good story? I don't think anyone did. Some people found it tolerable though.

 

[Kagari]

It's a shame that Final Fantasy doesn't have good stories though.

Personally, I liked it better when Kazushige Nojima was the main writer on the series. SE really need to ditch Toriyama and Watanabe.

 

[Crash Station]

You thought FFXIII had a good story? I don't think anyone did. Some people found it tolerable though.

I did.

 

[Thoraxes]

You thought FFXIII had a good story? I don't think anyone did. Some people found it tolerable though.

I found it more than tolerable; I enjoyed the story when I played the game. In general I like it when you can play things with a story regardless of whether it's good or bad because in general i'm just happy to be playing video games when I get time to.

 

[ZephyrFate]

You thought FFXIII had a good story? I don't think anyone did. Some people found it tolerable though.

I liked it, but the ending was bonkers.

 

[Riposte]

I liked the music they played during cutscenes, which is just as important as dialogue in videogame "stories".

 

[ULTROS!]

Frankly, Nomura writes better stories than Toriyama.

ugh Toriyama ugh.

 

[Makoto]

I liked Lightning.

Spoiler

There's just as much of her in XIII-2, right? Right?

 

[Zzoram]

I liked Lightning.

Spoiler

There's just as much of her in XIII-2, right? Right?

Not at all. She's not part of your party.

 

[~Kinggi~]

Not at all. She's not a playable character.

What? Shes on the damn cover! What about all the battle footage of her. what the hell.

 

[Dark Schala]

So does Toriyama get to keep writing trash because he's an elder that no one will disrespect by calling out his shitty stories?

IIRC, Toriyama directed (scenario director) and Watanabe wrote the script for both of these games.

I'm not really playing this for the story (since it doesn't involve stuff that pique my interest like Genso Suikoden, the Matsuno games, Mother or Fire Emblem do). I'm just interested in it for the improvements to the questing system, the battle system and the ability management system. I do miss Hiroyuki Ito, though. :/

 

[Famassu]

I wonder if Versus will even come out this generation.

Seriously, how does Square-Enix justify how long it takes for them to put out a game? They don't even sell that well relative to cost compared to AAA American games.

How do they justify it? Well, it IS probably/possibly the biggest game Square Enix has ever done. And the fact is they didn't really start working on it until 2008 (before that it was just tech demo-y/proof-of-concept stuff) and even after that it was 1) a small-ish team at first (might've only been, like, 30-40 people, which is small for FF) and 2) the KH team had to help with XIII's development for almost a year. That in addition to Versus being the much more ambitious game, which Nomura ISN'T rushing out just to please insanely ADHD fans who want everything here and now, instead opting for the better alternative of taking their time with it until it's right and they've got most of what they want in the game. It's basically the Valve model of development. Instead of trying to make it as quickly as possible, there's been a lot of experimentation and they are trying to get it right on the first time instead of having another XIII in their hands where they'd need a sequel to right all the wrongs of the first game. Of course they could still screw up the gameplay or something, but I doubt that.

What? Shes on the damn cover! What about all the battle footage of her. what the hell.

"All the battle footage"? We've only ever seen different parts of that same battle where she rides Odin's horse-form and battles Chaos Bahamut.

 

[Kagari]

What? Shes on the damn cover! What about all the battle footage of her. what the hell.

Only in the very beginning. On rails.

 

[ULTROS!]

IIRC, Toriyama directed (scenario director) and Watanabe wrote the script for both of these games.

I'm not really playing this for the story (since it doesn't involve stuff that pique my interest like Genso Suikoden, the Matsuno games, Mother or Fire Emblem do). I'm just interested in it for the improvements to the questing system, the battle system and the ability management system. I do miss Hiroyuki Ito, though. :/

I bet you'll jump off a cliff if Toriyama wrote Suikoden VI.

Spoiler

i know i would.

 

[Airgetlam]

Only in the very beginning. On rails.

What?? I'm sad now. This is like Metal Gear Solid 2 all over again. Except for the on rails part.

 

[duckroll]

Personally, I liked it better when Kazushige Nojima was the main writer on the series. SE really need to ditch Toriyama and Watanabe.

FF8 and Advent Children were such masterpieces of script. Amirite?

 

[Kagari]

FF8 and Advent Children were such masterpieces of script. Amirite?

At least it was better than both FFXIII and 3rd Birthday's scripts.

 

[Dark Schala]

I bet you'll jump off a cliff if Toriyama wrote Suikoden VI.

Spoiler

i know i would.

Noooooooo... Oh God, I can only imagine a Toriyama/Watanabe Suikoden VI.

Spoiler

He'd introduce time travel somehow and it'll probably make the first three Genso Suikoden games null and void. Especially Suikoden II.

But luckily Konami would probably never give Genso Suikoden to Square-Enix, right? ...right?

 

[duckroll]

At least it was better than both FFXIII and 3rd Birthday's scripts.

No way Advent Children is better than FFXIII's script.

 

[ZephyrFate]

At least it was better than both FFXIII and 3rd Birthday's scripts.

Advent Children is WAY less insulting than XIII's script. Literally every piece of dialogue in that movie is shit.

 

[~Kinggi~]

No way Advent Children is better than FFXIII's script.

Its much better. Yes, much better.

 

[Deadly]

Just watched the ending on youtube. Didn't understand a single word but it seemed pretty trippy.

 

[Rahxephon91]

Its much better. Yes, much better.

You can't be serious.

But yeah Toriyama is pretty awful.

LOL, I guess you're not looking forward to it, then? I'm not looking forward to Versus much either. The only thing about it that looks really cool to me is the background art (ie: the architecture).

I'm interested in it because it's a seemingly high concept Final Fantasy. The idea of a "dark" modern looking FF is very cool. But I want to keep my hype levels down because this is a game made by the Kingdom Hearts guys and well I've seen their attempts at story. There's a lot of talk about the game and well not a lot shown. So I just think I'll stay cool headed about the game.

I also just don't care for the entire games as art argument.

 

[duckroll]

Its much better. Yes, much better.

I disagree. I feel FFXIII's scenario and script is superior in quality of writing and dialogue to both FF8 and Advent Children. I like Nojima a lot, but let's not pretend that he can do no wrong. Toriyama isn't anywhere close to Nojima when it comes to Nojima's dialogue if Nojima actually brings his A game. But he seems to like shitting out stuff just as often as giving it a serious effort. KH2 is also fucking terrible.

 

[Crash Station]

FF8 and Advent Children were such masterpieces of script. Amirite?

FF8 has the best world design in the series. No amount of time kompression and orphanages can change that. We all know you want to live at Balamb Garden, so stop hiding it!

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Why did FFXIII-2 have to have a worse story than FXIII?

Toriyama plus time travel with assistance from Watanabe.

The only thing that could be worse than the result of that unholy union is that people saw the above combo and thought “this could end up alright”.

As far as story goes, the only thing I’m interested in is how much time travel will affect it. Gimme alternate timelines.

I did.

Exactly.

Spoiler

Don’t be mad, I still <3 you.

 

[Crash Station]

Exactly.

Spoiler

Don&#8217;t be mad, I still <3 you.

To be fair, I do agree that the ending is a pretty big buzzkill even if I don't think it's as bad as everyone says.

 

[ULTROS!]

Meh, FFVIII's story was better than XIII's in my opinion. I liked that gushy-romancy-teenage theme of VIII.

Plus VIII has one of the best music soundtracks ever.

 

[Rahxephon91]

FF8 has the best world design in the series. No amount of time kompression and orphanages can change that. We all know you want to live at Balamb Garden, so stop hiding it!

I would agree with you, but the high technology stuff later in the game really soured it for me.

I liked it when it had this strange 1920's modern world vibe going on.

Plus VIII has one of the best music soundtracks ever.

Yeah pretty much, shame I don't like the game very much.

 

[duckroll]

FF8 has the best world design in the series. No amount of time kompression and orphanages can change that. We all know you want to live at Balamb Garden, so stop hiding it!

We can credit a lot of that to Naora's art direction. Nojima's script just wasted it all into a mess of shit.