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[Dark_castle]

Comparing Duscae to Witcher 3, the only thing I can say is.

I really hope they don't try to copy Witcher 3 at all.

Good game or not, that's most definitely not the only way to make an open world game and is definitely not the best. Witcher 3 should be a model for WRPGs and WRPGs only...

FFXV IS trying to follow Xenoblade and WRPG's footstep of open world exploration with big maps to play around. However the level design just wasn't up to par, even to the likes of Dragon Age Inquisition or Witcher 3, much less Xenoblade. So we ended up with Duscae that was huge, but flat and empty, with no interesting point of interest or vista.

 

[wmlk]

TW3 and FFXV have very different philosophies when it comes to the open world structure. FFXV will likely follow classic FFs in gameplay.

Personally, I don't mind huge, empty spaces. They're pretty to look at and we're not going to have to run around in them very much at all when we have a car to take us to points of interest.

Duscae isn't the most interesting place, but as the game progresses the areas will look and act very differently. I just hope that there's some platforming with the sword. I'd hate for that to go unexplored.

You probably won't spend much time running around in areas like Duscae in the full game.

 

[Damerman]

FFXV IS trying to follow Xenoblade and WRPG's footstep of open world exploration with big maps to play around. However the level design just wasn't up to par, even to the likes of Dragon Age Inquisition or Witcher 3, much less Xenoblade. So we ended up with Duscae that was huge, but flat and empty, with no interesting point of interest or vista.

Dragon inquisition was not that great... Especially when you consider witcher 3. Duscae is definitely way more interesting to look at than anything i've seen in inquisition.

 

[DeSolos]

Duscae area was pretty boring. I'd rather have smaller, more interesting locales than generic open world copypasta that's been shown so far.

It's going to be open world copy pasta with interesting locales dotted around.

Within what we see in the demo, they have the gas station, chocobo post, behemoth lair, cave, Lestallum, and astral shard.

There's quite a lot there.

FFXV IS trying to follow Xenoblade and WRPG's footstep of open world exploration with big maps to play around. However the level design just wasn't up to par, even to the likes of Dragon Age Inquisition or Witcher 3, much less Xenoblade. So we ended up with Duscae that was huge, but flat and empty, with no interesting point of interest or vista.

That's only because they cut the Titan battle from the demo.

 

[HeeHo]

I actually think the final game will be a lot better than the XIII Trilogy, Phew, I just finished Lightning Returns not too long ago and wowzers, are my standards low for a new FF game. Couple that with the fact that I'm playing Type 0 right now (which I'm enjoying) and it's crappy NPC models/environments and I couldn't be more ready for this.

If airships don't make in, eh. Whatever. As long as the environments are big, the gameplay is meaty and the challenge is there, I'm all in.

I was pretty disappointed with that father/son trailer too until I knew the context and the footage of the Malboro wasn't very exciting either (although the enemy model is fantastic, IMO) but I am excited to play anything that isn't XIII related at this point.

 

[wmlk]

It's going to be open world copy pasta with interesting locales dotted around.

Within what we see in the demo, they have the gas station, chocobo post, behemoth lair, cave, Lestallum, and astral shard.

There's quite a lot there.

And unlike TW3 where points of interest are scattered throughout the world, FFXV's points of interest will likely be wherever the road takes you.

 

[Lynx_7]

I just wish we could see the same kind of variety we used to see in titles like IX. Cities with unique concepts and visuals, a large variety of areas that range from icy, forests, magma, "mystical" environments, ancient ruins of an advanced civilization and novel locations with cool design, you know, what Final Fantasy used to be like. I really hope Duscae and the barren/generic areas they've been showing us aren't representative of the final product...

 

[Damerman]

It's going to be open world copy pasta with interesting locales dotted around.

Within what we see in the demo, they have the gas station, chocobo post, behemoth lair, cave, Lestallum, and astral shard.

There's quite a lot there.

I agree. The contrast between the vast empty spaces and the nicely detailed points of interest in duscae was a stand out for me. And the long road was definitely captured really well. It'd be nice to see wanderers or hitch hikers walk those roads or see broken down vehicles along the side of the road.

I definitely think that to realize the full potential of the open world SE needs to focus on the AI of pedestrians and of wild beasts... Making them fit in their environment in terms of their interaction with the world.

 

[threelights]

I guess I'm hinting at the question of what makes the witcher3 open world representative of a wrpg and how would it differ in a jrpg.

JRPG open world should basically be FFXII without loading screens or Xenoblade without fetch quests.

Witcher focuses too much on its own writing and telling a story (which is by no means a bad thing mind you, just very characteristic of WRPGs). JRPGs tend to have different stuff to do besides following questlines (FFVII being a good example of that).

 

[Dark_castle]

Dragon inquisition was not that great... Especially when you consider witcher 3. Duscae is definitely way more interesting to look at than anything i've seen in inquisition.

Can't say I agree. DA:I has a lot of issues, but I always find the environment design to be beautiful and fairly varied in art style. The level design was also decent overall, except the one of the desert area, that was quite barren and flat, like Duscae.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Can't say I agree. DA:I has a lot of issues, but I always find the environment design to be beautiful and fairly varied in art style. The level design was also decent overall, except the one of the desert area, that was quite barren and flat, like Duscae.

I agree, it was way more diversed than The Witcher 3.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

It's going to be open world copy pasta with interesting locales dotted around.

Within what we see in the demo, they have the gas station, chocobo post, behemoth lair, cave, Lestallum, and astral shard.

There's quite a lot there.




That's only because they cut the Titan battle from the demo.

Witcher 3 is also filled with landmarks, the difference is everything else surrounding it.

You can have both.

 

[Kagari]

And unlike TW3 where points of interest are scattered throughout the world, FFXV's points of interest will likely be wherever the road takes you.

We really don't know that yet.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Can't say I agree. DA:I has a lot of issues, but I always find the environment design to be beautiful and fairly varied in art style. The level design was also decent overall, except the one of the desert area, that was quite barren and flat, like Duscae.

Disagree. Inquisition environments looked decent enough, but not convining in the way that W3 environments feel. I suppose some of it is the last gen geometry etc, but they also felt very empty. Environments in Duscae scale in a much better way than Inquisition, which I appreciate. The scale almost feels 1:1.

 

[Damerman]

Can't say I agree. DA:I has a lot of issues, but I always find the environment design to be beautiful and fairly varied in art style. The level design was also decent overall, except the one of the desert area, that was quite barren and flat, like Duscae.

Which desert? Hissing waste, western approach or forbidden oasis? Western approach was the only one that felt hand crafted with interesting points of interest, not to mention the awesome stronghold that you capture there. Other than that the maps really didn't offer any real dynamics other than the dragons. DA:i is the meaning of copy pasta. Same venatori in the same camps doing the same kind of "excavating"... And the beasts did not look like they were part of a natural habitat, just clumsily meandering.

Witcher 3 on the other hand had different bandits specifically at an outpost for a certain reason. As an example you com across this ghost town that doesn't have necrophages feeding on corpses, so you continue up a hill by the town to find a cannibal settlement with bones of humans and other things of the sort. There is no such detail in dragon age.

 

[Squire]

Duscae is almost Baby's First Level tier, but it's interesting to read these posts. LOL

 

[wmlk]

We really don't know that yet.

Tabata has said that the main means of exploration will be by car. That pretty much solidifies that. The car can only travel on the road, so wherever it takes you is likely where the story will progress.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

JRPG open world should basically be FFXII without loading screens or Xenoblade without fetch quests.

Witcher focuses too much on its own writing and telling a story (which is by no means a bad thing mind you, just very characteristic of WRPGs). JRPGs tend to have different stuff to do besides following questlines (FFVII being a good example of that).

But in Wicther 3 you have a whole card minigame and horse races. :/

I feel the differences in JRPG and WRPG (specially in games aiming to open world games) is basically down to combat systems, all the subsustems acompanied to it and the more multi decision approach in WRPG.

In terms of both quest design and optional gameplay systems, both types are pretty close...

 

[DeSolos]

Witcher 3 is also filled with landmarks, the difference is everything else surrounding it.

You can have both.

Looks fine to me, and right in view 3 landmarks, and Noctis is standing near the cave. Witcher 3 has the right density for the modes of travel provided in it.

FFXV isn't going for that type of enclosed feel, they want openness and freedom like Red Dead or GTA.

 

[MagnaderAlpha]

I always laugh when people bring up how boring the landscape of FFXV looks. There's no level variation. There's nothing do do, everything seems empty.

Truly a fantasy based on reality, or "Man, why must we live in a reality based on reality?!". FFXV adds fantasy aspects and people whine how it's not as "realistic" anymore, yet, they whine how boring some of the terrain is that's trying to be "realistic". And I'm not saying there isn't variety in our real world as far as landscapes are concerned, but we've only seen, really, Duscae to make a valid comparison. We don't know what other areas of FFXV's world look like. If the map's any indication, it will be widely varied(the map's topography's all over the place).

In short, FUCK YOU North American prairie and desert lands, why can't you be more like the ares in the Witcher 3?! I... know there might be other ares in the world that bare more resemblance, but we aren't talking about them, we're talking about YOU! Shape up you boring, uneventful and empty pieces of land!

 

[Philippo]

We really should wait the full game to value how good the locations are.
Who knows when they'll add all POIs and events in the developement process, and what got cut from final game Duscae to the one in the demo.

I'm sure the game will have many interesting points to travel to and things scattered around the world to make it interesting and worthy of explore.

Or at least i hope so, because i don't really have faith in proper quest design so i hope the rest will make up for it.

 

[wmlk]

From what I can tell, the questing really is trash, though. Especially with the part where you look at a damn sign and kill monsters.

Oh, a Black Chocobo?

QUEST COMPLETE.

 

[JumPeRJumPzZ]

I really hope the Kingdom Hearts 3 presence next week at D23 wont be a disaster.

 

[tuxfool]

JRPG open world should basically be FFXII without loading screens or Xenoblade without fetch quests.

Witcher focuses too much on its own writing and telling a story (which is by no means a bad thing mind you, just very characteristic of WRPGs). JRPGs tend to have different stuff to do besides following questlines (FFVII being a good example of that).

Mmm. I'm not certain that there is a difference at least going by your description.

However the game should evoke a journey and the examples you posted certainly do so, but I don't see them as characteristically JRPG. The typical JRPG also has a very strong narrative in the main story and side stories. Other open world RPGs have plenty of things to do which aren't quest related.

 

[Kagari]

From what I can tell, the questing really is trash, though. Especially with the part where you look at a damn sign and kill monsters.

Oh, a Black Chocobo?

QUEST COMPLETE.

Yes. I'm not sure what they were thinking with that.

 

[dramatis]

Rather than to compare to the Witcher, it's probably better to take note from FF14 area design. They keep a semi-fantasy element to the design in the flora, so you have unusual trees of odd colors and the like to distinguish various regions. While not all areas are visually arresting, the layout works well to make it so that you can run from one landmark to another in about a minute, so the actual work of traveling is not that tedious. In Heavensward it takes just a bit longer, but by that time you should have a mount, so the time is about the same on a mount. Heavensward also allocates verticality to its area designs because of the emphasis on flying, and that might help give FF15 more flavor. It's not just about running up a hill; you have to be running up a hill to a visual mark you can see on the horizon.

 

[Dark_castle]

Disagree. Inquisition environments looked decent enough, but not convining in the way that W3 environments feel. I suppose some of it is the last gen geometry etc, but they also felt very empty. Environments in Duscae scale in a much better way than Inquisition, which I appreciate. The scale almost feels 1:1.

W3 has a more coherent world design since Velen and Novigrad are both connected, and there are some variety in landscape. Boring places like the marshes still oozes atmosphere. It's quite decent. Not a lot of flat grounds, and more importantly it had a lot of civilization (towns and villages), flora and fauna to breathe life to its world, not to mention great side quests.

I don't know if FFXV is capable of the same feats.

 

[DeSolos]

From what I can tell, the questing really is trash, though. Especially with the part where you look at a damn sign and kill monsters.

Oh, a Black Chocobo?

QUEST COMPLETE.

I really hate the quests where they say "Go find thing" and the game adds a marker to the EXACT coordinates of that thing.

 

[Damerman]

From what I can tell, the questing really is trash, though. Especially with the part where you look at a damn sign and kill monsters.

Oh, a Black Chocobo?

QUEST COMPLETE.

This has to change. Also they need to detail the random loots that you find... That glimering breadcrumb stuff wont fly. There needs to be nodes or it needs to make geological sense.

 

[Kagari]

I really hate the quests where they say "Go find thing" and the game adds a marker to the EXACT coordinates of that thing.

Standing around finding mushrooms was probably the worst.

 

[artsi]

Tabata has said that the main means of exploration will be by car. That pretty much solidifies that. The car can only travel on the road, so wherever it takes you is likely where the story will progress.

Well it makes sense kind of. FF XV is based on reality by it's tagline, and if there are landmarks that would be classified as such in the real world there's probably a road leading there, as tourists might want to visit it.

Of course there should be the hidden ones too, like the caves.

I like Duscae personally, it just needs something more. A bit more foliage, people hiking in the forest, etc. But it's a good start what was in the demo and the developed areas felt pretty realistic to me.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

From what I can tell, the questing really is trash, though. Especially with the part where you look at a damn sign and kill monsters.

Oh, a Black Chocobo?

QUEST COMPLETE.

I hope riding animation is cool.

 

[wmlk]

I really hate the quests where they say "Go find thing" and the game adds a marker to the EXACT coordinates of that thing.

The worst.

They should just not specify those locations at all. You have three other party members who could point out where to look if you really are lost. Right now, when they do tell you where to go...you're already there.

 

[Squire]

Tabata has said that the main means of exploration will be by car. That pretty much solidifies that. The car can only travel on the road, so wherever it takes you is likely where the story will progress.

It's not going to be that simple.

The fact that that is your immediate assumption confirms it will not be simple. If they actually drive to every key location unhindered we're in for a boring world and a boring story, too.

 

[tuxfool]

Looks fine to me, and right in view 3 landmarks, and Noctis is standing near the cave. Witcher 3 has the right density for the modes of travel provided in it.

FFXV isn't going for that type of enclosed feel, they want openness and freedom like Red Dead or GTA.

You're telling me this feels enclosed?

I edited the size so it doesn't hammer bandwidth.

original (credit jim2point0) is here:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=166618820&postcount=6760

 

[wmlk]

It's not going to be that simple.

The fact that that is your immediate assumption confirms it will not be simple. If they actually drive to every key location unhindered we're in for a boring world and a boring story, too.

There's bound to be swamps/marshes like we saw in Gamescom, but what I'm saying is that you probably won't be walking for an hour to get there. I'm thinking that you drive near there, drop off, and then go explore that area. With how massive the world is, a lot of it is going to be for scenery.

 

[Kagari]

There's bound to be swamps/marshes like we saw in Gamescom, but what I'm saying is that you probably won't be walking for an hour to get there. I'm thinking that you drive near there, drop off, and then go explore that area. With how massive the world is, a lot of it is going to be for scenery.

How massive is the playable world going to be though? Have you seen it?

 

[wmlk]

How massive is the playable world going to be though? Have you seen it?

No, it's just an assumption, but a lot of the trailer footage and concept art that we're seeing only have a few points of interest, and they're massive.

http://postimg.org/image/6yi0s7e2r/

Can't get a use the IMG tag for some reason.

EDIT: I'm only saying that this isn't exactly a dense open world. So, things are naturally further apart. You'll likely be encouraged to drive there instead of walking forever.

 

[chefbags]

In the end we're going to assume the hell out of everything until square releases some damn good info/trailer in the upcoming month ish.

If it ain't substantial then it's fucked until they do. I have hope. But a cautious as fuck kind of hope.

 

[Dark_castle]

Which desert? Hissing waste, western approach or forbidden oasis? Western approach was the only one that felt hand crafted with interesting points of interest, not to mention the awesome stronghold that you capture there. Other than that the maps really didn't offer any real dynamics other than the dragons. DA:i is the meaning of copy pasta. Same venatori in the same camps doing the same kind of "excavating"... And the beasts did not look like they were part of a natural habitat, just clumsily meandering.

Witcher 3 on the other hand had different bandits specifically at an outpost for a certain reason. As an example you com across this ghost town that doesn't have necrophages feeding on corpses, so you continue up a hill by the town to find a cannibal settlement with bones of humans and other things of the sort. There is no such detail in dragon age.

The last one, Hissing Waste I think. I'm not saying DA:I is necessarily superior to W3 in these aspects, I'm saying Duscae as a whole in the demo blows. I hate it. It's the main cause that dehype me on FFXV, not because the troubled development, not because Luna replacing Stella.

 

[Kagari]

In the end we're going to assume the hell out of everything until square releases some damn good info/trailer in the upcoming month ish.

If it ain't substantial then it's fucked until they do. I have hope. But a cautious as fuck kind of hope.

It's hard to assume anything when things keep changing.

 

[chefbags]

It's hard to assume anything when things keep changing.

Yeah I can agree with you there. Their sense of marketing is moronic. I don't see why they don't think we're just going to accept changes willy nilly without any damn explanation since most of us have been following this game in almost a decade.

 

[Gbraga]

After Witcher 3, Duscae 2.0 enviroments feels so empty and lifeless.

I feel that Witcher 3 set up a new standard which SE is not meeting, XV looks like "My first open world game".

New standard in Resident Sleeper.

I'll take "empty and lifeless" with actual gameplay mechanics over "full of shit to do" open world games.

From what I can tell, the questing really is trash, though. Especially with the part where you look at a damn sign and kill monsters.

Oh, a Black Chocobo?

QUEST COMPLETE.

Oh yeah, those were shit.

 

[nelsonroyale]

The last one, Hissing Waste I think. I'm not saying DA:I is necessarily superior to W3 in these aspects, I'm saying Duscae as a whole in the demo blows. I hate it. It's the main cause that dehype me on FFXV, not because the troubled development, not because Luna replacing Stella.

Again, I grant you W3, I hope they take note of what they are doing. But Inquisition? The scale feels so out of wack, it is firmly rooted in last gen in that regard. I feel that once we can traverse Duscae using the car, we get access to the towns etc, and story missions are in it will feel MUCH better than Inquisition.

If we can get airships...well, granted the game turns out decent it will surpass Witcher 3 for me in that regard.

Personally, I think the rendering in FFXV is better than W3, I just hope/wish they would put in the individualised content that Witcher 3 has and pretty much no other open world game does as well.

 

[Meccanical]

You know, I'm, playing the Witcher 3 right now and I can honestly say it's world is way better designed than Duscae.

Not to start an argument, but I can't fathom how anyone can say TW3 is somehow the wrong way to do things.

 

[orioto]

I wanted to add i had that same feeling with Duscae environments.. And that's a shame. They have those great graphics, that great light.. yet i don't know.. you don't really feel like you're walking in a great natural field.. And that's all about level design.

I always use FFXII as example for that. Environment felt incredible with it, despite being on PS2.

Now that i think about it, i feel the same way that FFXV with Drive Club, and i think it has something to do with global light. It's like they cannot let artists design stuff like they would do with a concept art so it feels more random and less "magical" Also when they were cheating with the vistas, they could do that like some sort of painting, but it's way harder to control how tings look when you have everything there far away.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

New standard in Resident Sleeper.

I'll take "empty and lifeless" with actual gameplay mechanics over "full of shit to do" open world games.

You don't need to go after every "?" in the map (if you have that option activated, you can turn it off and just explore the world at your leisure). Actually, it feels like XV is doing the same thing with the shiny things scattered through the map and the "random" quests on signs, with the difference is that W3 surrounds all those things with an actual well designed world.

 

[Gbraga]

You don't need to go after every "?" in the map (if you have that option activated, you can turn it off and just explore the world at your leisure). Actually, it feels like XV is doing the same thing with the shiny things scattered through the map and the "random" quests on signs, with the difference is that W3 surrounds all those things with an actual well designed world.

Oh yeah, I did learn my lesson about it, turned them off, the game got a lot better. Still not good enough and I ended up dropping it.

Which is curious to me since I loved Assassins of Kings and was really excited for Wild Hunt. Oh well, not every game is for me, I guess.

Duscae might be shit tier open world design, but at least beating stuff was fun. Until we got the omnislash bullshit, then it got boring.

 

[Meccanical]

Also, those question marks appear there from information you weird in books and notices and is there for your convenience.

It's way more fun to find things naturally though, the game is gorgeous to look at on every turn anyway.

 

[tuxfool]

You don't need to go after every "?" in the map (if you have that option activated, you can turn it off and just explore the world at your leisure). Actually, it feels like XV is doing the same thing with the shiny things scattered through the map and the "random" quests on signs, with the difference is that W3 surrounds all those things with an actual well designed world.

I wouldn't bother explaining, he didn't like the game. Therefore it is boring. Nothing wrong with the sentiment, but the issue isn't with the ?