This is actually what I have a harder time believing than them not recognizing Ardyn as the chancellor right away. It would've been a bit more convincing if they struggled with feelings of anger when they realized who he is. You think they'd be seeing red. I can buy them being practical and knowing that they needed to accept his help for now (the ship escape, Ardyn calming Ravus, etc) with intent to get back at him later, once they have the royal arms and gods. But you'd think there'd be more inner struggle.
Final Fantasy XV SPOILER THREAD
- Thread starter Kagari
- Start date
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Well, none of the main characters are there during Kingsglaive and it's not like Ardyn went out of his way to antagonize them.
Though yea it's quite jarring, especially the jump from Chapter 4 to 5....
Supermanisdead
Member
The de facto ruler of the empire pals around with them and they aren't even mad. But Jared gets killed by a low level general and they go on a near suicide base invasion mission to avenge him.
Though we will have to agree to disagree, I am pretty sure he is saying "You will take responsibility...". The voice also says that it "can rest at last". I need to rewatch the Bahamut scene again but he didn't seem like that was his goal.
Your explanation does work perfectly well as another interpretation though.
butman
Member
A lot of pages since my last visit on this thread so i'm not sure if it was discussed yet.
I just remembered the last line of Omen trailer. Who was talking to who?
It was Bahamut to Noctis?
Ardyn to the Crystal?
Regis to the ancients kings?
I can't t relate that line of dialogue to any part of the game.
I just remembered the last line of Omen trailer. Who was talking to who?
It was Bahamut to Noctis?
Ardyn to the Crystal?
Regis to the ancients kings?
I can't t relate that line of dialogue to any part of the game.
I don't see how it makes sense as anyone -but- Bahamut. Bahamut has a demonic voice; Bahamut inhaibts the Crystal. And why would the king tell a higher power to take responsibility? The burden is on him and his family the humans must follow the rules of the god. They must take responsibility for the powers they accepted. Regis will pay with his own life by using the crystal's power, which ages him prematurely. And his son, chosen by the Crystal, will pay the "blood price," as Bahamut put it in Ch. 13.
CosmicGroinPull
Member
:/ Guess I'll watch it too.
**Maybe they should put a reminder 2-3 chapters in:
After more than 50 tries and more than 50 Angelus Zeros cut down, finally.....one Magitek Suit V2 dropped!
I literally punched the air and dropped down on the sofa in a tired heap on my sofa when I got this. It took sooooooo long to get it and it's totally random too.
I'm not sure I wanna suffer another 50 to get another one for each of the other three.
Awesome! Congrats, I'm so jealous.
Now on to the final boss to kick his ass with ease!!
PshycoNinja
Member
I don't know why this post got looked over. I think it's a really good and thoughtful post in this thread I would personally like to explore more.
Y2Kev, I want to respond to this with (I hope) an equally thoughtful response, but I am actually reading and typing this while I am on the 405 in grid lock and likely won't be home for abother 2-3 hours. But I do want to come back to this and discuss it more.
- "How many must die before you are satisfied?"
Regis is saying: "Many have died fighting the daemons, the darkness. When will you gods save us?"
- "I've seen many deaths, but now I am only looking forward to one. And then I can rest..."
Bahamut, who has a voice like that in the Omen trailer, and who lives in the Crystal that Regis speaks to in the trailer, is saying: "We gods have seen the people dying, but we only look forward to the death that will destroy the Accursed. The death of the Chosen King."
- "We will take responsibility, you know"
Regis is saying: "My son will accept the blood price and sacrifice himself for all." And Regis will sacrifice himself for his son.
- "As must we all"
- Bahamut is saying what he said in the Ch. 13 cutscene, and what the Old Kings of Lucis said at the end of Kingsglaive: "The blood price must be paid." In other words: Everyone is bound by the rules.
I think the name Izunia is related to Mount Izuna, home of Shinto tengu - a type of god. Part avian and human. What astral in the Final Fantasy mythos was avian in nature? He wears a single black wing in Kingsglaive, and in his depictions on the cover of Cosmogony (spelling) he is wearing black armor with two black angel's wings.
Noctis = nox, or night/darkness/dream. Lucis = lux, or light. Caelum = chisel. The chisel of darkness and light. Caelum is also a constellation in the southern sky.
Luna = moon, Freya/Freyja is the Norse goddess of all kinds of things from love and sex to death and war. Nox = darkness or night, flueret = flow.
In death both Lunafreya and Noctis appeared to become sort of constellations, together forever in the afterlife. I have a feeling Ardyn is a kind of fallen god in a way, and possibly the ancestor of both their royal houses.
Noctis = nox, or night/darkness/dream. Lucis = lux, or light. Caelum = chisel. The chisel of darkness and light. Caelum is also a constellation in the southern sky.
Luna = moon, Freya/Freyja is the Norse goddess of all kinds of things from love and sex to death and war. Nox = darkness or night, flueret = flow.
In death both Lunafreya and Noctis appeared to become sort of constellations, together forever in the afterlife. I have a feeling Ardyn is a kind of fallen god in a way, and possibly the ancestor of both their royal houses.
LordKasual
Banned
fucking LOL
*Gladio turned to stone*
Ignis - "Gladio's hard as a rock!"
Noctis - "What are you talking about?!?!
*looking at picture with Iron Giant grabbing noctis in camp*
Guys - "Wow, you're lucky you survived this"
Noctis - "Yeah, and Prompto with the camera..."
*Gladio turned to stone*
Ignis - "Gladio's hard as a rock!"
Noctis - "What are you talking about?!?!
*looking at picture with Iron Giant grabbing noctis in camp*
Guys - "Wow, you're lucky you survived this"
Noctis - "Yeah, and Prompto with the camera..."
I read that Izunia apparently means "weasel," but maybe someone can source that.
It is a type of weasel, yea. A little red one.
butman
Member
Thank you!
Here's what I watched to make my observations:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIyfWSrw_FQ
I still hear "You will take responsbility..." and to me, that means Regis is talking to Ardyn who slips that he "can finally rest". But if it is "We will take responsbility...", then Neiteio's explanation is certainly apt.
It doesn't make sense that Regis would be talking with Ardyn, let alone about deals. He doesn't know who Ardyn really is, and Ardyn isn't playing by any rules.
The only entities driving a blood price — a price paid with death — are the gods.
And again: They're showing Regis, with the Crystal. You hear a demonic voice like Bahamut, who lives in the Crystal. Bahamut, who talks about blood prices at length in Ch. 13. Bahamut, who won't rest until the Accursed is no more. The Accursed, who can only be dispelled by Noctis, sacrificing his own life. Noctis, who is Regis' own son. Hence the responsibility that must be accepted. The price to be paid.
It makes absolutely no sense for it to be Ardyn's voice in that scene.
EDIT: Even if you hear it as "You will take responsibility," that just means "You gods will hold up your end of the deal." But him saying, "...you know," at the end, makes it clear he's saying "He (as in Noctis)" or "We (as in us)."
Strafebogey
Member
Did that. The only challenge left are these V2 suits. I wish the three DLC episodes would've dropped sooner.
davidwhangchoi
Member
i beat the game a week ago. so Ardyn is his great grandfather?
Yabberwocky
Member
Belated comment - as there are some great discussions happening in this thread - but that's a great summary of my character issues with XV. I genuinely like the characters, but there is also so little done with them in regards to arcs and character development, even XIII's cast had more. Though they are games from earlier on in the franchise, I feel like FFII and FFIV did a much better job with the character arcs of their supporting cast, whereas FFXV is down the bottom with FFI and III. (Again, that isn't to say I don't like XV's cast, because I really do. Noctis himself has a compelling character arc.) As you also said, I'm always surprised to hear XII's characters referred to as 'boring', because they all have (sans Penelo) great and poignant character arcs that all tie into the themes of the overall narrative.
...poor Penelo, if only your subplot didn't get cut.
Vayne's speech is so goddamn good, too, it's always nice to have an excuse to rewatch it. I also love the scene afterwards with Vayne charming Migelo. Stupid charming Vayne. Gimme that TZA.
JayWood2010
Member
So are they planning any DLC for this masterpiece? Would be nice to see them expand on some of the characters.
The current plan is:
- Gladiolus DLC where you play as him as he departs and does some hunting. He also fights gilgimesh apparently
- Ignis DLC where you play as him as he is evacuating Altissia
- Prompto DLC where you play as him after he got the boot on the train
- Online Co-op dlc that we don't quite know the details about
- Many Many future patches including more story cutscenes and even some more playable scenarios and apparently even more playable characters.
- We should expect more dlc beyond the season pass.
We don't know what the 4th DLC "Companions' is about but it's possible it will be an epilogue to the story considering there really is no further place for the DLC to go other than either after the game or during the World of Ruin time gap.
JayWood2010
Member
I dont usually buy DLC but I will prob this time. Is there any idea on when the first one is being released?
Oh, holiday pack and holiday pack + are already released and there will be a limited time event in January, so that is technically first.
However the first BIG dlc thing will be Gladio's dlc.
I kinda doubt it'd be an epilogue.
Maybe its the journey regis and co went of or something. That'd be interesting to see.
Ganon Dragmire
Member
the companions dlc is the online multiplayer thing
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1322843
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1322843
Can anyone verify this? I'd REALLY like to know if this is true.
FlutterPuffs
Member
Would love if you play as hunters during the 10 year gap. You can go back and forth either in Hammerhead or Lestallum and coop to fight demons.
lol! High school Latin taught me that caelum meant "sky", but I never learned that it also meant "chisel"!
I'm expecting very short episodes for the character. Like one dungeon and maybe a small area to explore. I have no idea what they'll do with the multiplayer one. I just hope it isn't just adding multiplayer, I want a new open world to explore, at least something the size of Duscae.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
I read somewhere that Gladio's DLC would bring Gilgamesh?
Wonder if that's true.
Lol didn't read this posted just above.
So that's why they cut things off at various junctures, to prop some DLC. Hopefully it happens naturally as in you don't get to choose "Prompto DLC" from a menu but you actually have to go through the game until the point where Noct pushed him off to play it.
Playable characters... interesting. Hopefully they also add something to the World of Ruin, like we are hunting together with Iris or Araenea, that would be dope.
Wonder if that's true.
Lol didn't read this posted just above.
So that's why they cut things off at various junctures, to prop some DLC. Hopefully it happens naturally as in you don't get to choose "Prompto DLC" from a menu but you actually have to go through the game until the point where Noct pushed him off to play it.
Playable characters... interesting. Hopefully they also add something to the World of Ruin, like we are hunting together with Iris or Araenea, that would be dope.
It's true. It's been officially confirmed.
I hope we see more Summons vs Summons in fights. Those get pretty awesome.
That Dude John
Member
I wonder if they're gonna maybe tweak the requirements for summons to appear in the future. Would be nice.
Also Bahamut.
Also Bahamut.
PshycoNinja
Member
I am going to do my best in trying to give an equally thoughtful response on your post so go easy on me. 
Also...spoilers ahead... Dunno if I need to disclaim that before responding in a Spoiler Thread but oh well...
Ardyn introduces himself to the party out of the blue in Chapter 1. It's immediately conveyed that this guy is more than what he says he is "a man of no concequence", as Dino even says he's throwing around coins that commemorate the Oracle's ascension and no ordinary citizen would be throwing them around willy-nilly. This is his first appearance in the game and to the party.
Where the party does have cell phones, I do not believe they are actually photo or video capable. I know that's a weird/weak argument but I don't believe they have that capability. Otherwise, I think, it would be weird for Prompto to be carrying a camera around when his phone would be capable of taking photos. There is only one time where the phones are used outside of calling others and that's when Prompto uses his phone to hear a radio broadcast about what's happening in the Crown City in Chapter 1. I went too long on this one thing that's not even the heart of the issue. Heh. Moving on...
I don't think it's weird for Noctis not to know, as it is apparent he doesn't (at least in the beginning) care for politics and doesn't keep up with it. Ignis not immediately knowing who Ardyn (who gives his first name to the party at the end of Chapter 3) is a stretch. I'll give you that. The story asserts that Ignis knows of Imperial Chancellor Izunia. He knows of the man. But just couldn't put his finger on it. He even states several times while your driving in Chapter 4 that he "has his suspicions", but casts them aside because there would be no reason for the Imperial Chancellor to help them. Additionally, he also states that he cannot see Ardyn as "empire" because of the way he carries himself, acts, and dresses.
I am not sure of which deception point your pointing to whether that be Chapter 4 or Chapter 9, but I will assume Chapter 4.
Multiple times, even early in Chapter 4, they all state they don't trust him. But to them he's a means to an end. Without him they can't get into the Disk to receive Titan's blessing. Without him they would've been in a huge fight with Ravus and the imperial army. While they never actually trust him, he never gave them cause to distrust him either as he continuously helps them all the way up to Chapter 9. That doesn't necessarily mean they aren't guarded when he's around.
In Chapter 9 is when he makes his intentions known. At this point, the party doesn't trust him and actively fight him anytime he shows up. Which is fine with Ardyn. At this point in his plan he just wants Noctis to put on the ring and absorb all the Crystal's Light so he can snuff out the Crystal, Gods, and the Lucis line. I'd say the party, Noctis even moreso, have zero trust in Ardyn and actively start to fight him once the betrayal is known.
I'll agree when it came to Vayne I didn't know what to make of him, but I did suspect he was the big bad. Even in his dialogue all his tells were there. He sees himself as the hero, will do whatever it takes to make the world a better place, etc. Quite frankly I don't find Vayne extremely compelling. I found the Judges more compelling and was given reasons why I should fight them. I thought Cid was a more interesting villain than Vayne was. I honestly don't have a good argument why I don't like Vayne. I am sure if I replayed XII I would be more up to task to discuss Vayne. As it stands, it's been a few years since I've played XII, but I distinctly remember liking the game less once
I may be off my rocker, but what I do remember of Vayne, I found him very 2-dimensional and not feeling any real strong feelings towards him. I didn't sympathize, like, hate, or found him enduring. He was just kinda there until he
I find Ardyn compelling and fun to watch. At first, you don't know what to make of him. He's esoteric and eccentric. You never really trust him, but his actions also tell you he's not really on the Empire's side. So that should tell someone that he's doing everything for his own benefit and/or amusement.
You gain more information as you go and you start to see the seeds of his madness and you see him crack every once in a while. Which helps in the feeling of making him feel dangerous. I think these things are what make him fun to watch and what makes him a compelling villain.
Archetypes and tropes are the way they are because they (mostly) work.
I don't think that's necessarily bad, but it could be if someone is looking for something wholly unique. I too find the characters enjoyable and I am okay with some of the archetypes they may fall into. There are other things that help them feel like people and make them more 3-dimensional, such as their hobbies and them constantly playing off each other. It helps solidify their bond and sells you on their brotherhood.
I don't think the characters in XII are "boring." I think they are well-written and all have their arcs (including Penelo, as much as I didn't like her I think she does have a small arc). I don't disagree with anything you say in regards with the XII characters. However, I do disagree with the assertion that The four guys don't have their own arcs. Noctis has the most obvious arc with him going from a reluctant monarch to accepting his duty and sacrificing all for Eos. Prompto's arc is all about learning to accept who he is and learn to trust his friends and learn they don't see him as an easily object to discard at a moments notice. Gladio's arc is harder to parse, but his arc was learning patience (lame to some maybe), to fully accept Noctis as the King, and to accept that he doesn't have to do anything alone. It was a more subdued arc and not immediately apparent, I'll give you that, but it is there. Ignis's arc was embracing what happened to him and make the best of his disability. He had to grow and learn how to live with this disability.
I think the four guys all grew and developed throughout the story and even many of the side characters had their own arcs. I just think the game wasn't in your face about it. Which I could see it being argued that it wasn't good for the storytelling.
The only real retort I can give is that I personally find the four main characters more memorable than many other characters in other FF games. I know that's not a strong, logical response and wholly subjective, but that's just how I feel.
Also...spoilers ahead... Dunno if I need to disclaim that before responding in a Spoiler Thread but oh well...
Ardyn introduces himself to the party out of the blue in Chapter 1. It's immediately conveyed that this guy is more than what he says he is "a man of no concequence", as Dino even says he's throwing around coins that commemorate the Oracle's ascension and no ordinary citizen would be throwing them around willy-nilly. This is his first appearance in the game and to the party.
Where the party does have cell phones, I do not believe they are actually photo or video capable. I know that's a weird/weak argument but I don't believe they have that capability. Otherwise, I think, it would be weird for Prompto to be carrying a camera around when his phone would be capable of taking photos. There is only one time where the phones are used outside of calling others and that's when Prompto uses his phone to hear a radio broadcast about what's happening in the Crown City in Chapter 1. I went too long on this one thing that's not even the heart of the issue. Heh. Moving on...
I don't think it's weird for Noctis not to know, as it is apparent he doesn't (at least in the beginning) care for politics and doesn't keep up with it. Ignis not immediately knowing who Ardyn (who gives his first name to the party at the end of Chapter 3) is a stretch. I'll give you that. The story asserts that Ignis knows of Imperial Chancellor Izunia. He knows of the man. But just couldn't put his finger on it. He even states several times while your driving in Chapter 4 that he "has his suspicions", but casts them aside because there would be no reason for the Imperial Chancellor to help them. Additionally, he also states that he cannot see Ardyn as "empire" because of the way he carries himself, acts, and dresses.
I am not sure of which deception point your pointing to whether that be Chapter 4 or Chapter 9, but I will assume Chapter 4.
Multiple times, even early in Chapter 4, they all state they don't trust him. But to them he's a means to an end. Without him they can't get into the Disk to receive Titan's blessing. Without him they would've been in a huge fight with Ravus and the imperial army. While they never actually trust him, he never gave them cause to distrust him either as he continuously helps them all the way up to Chapter 9. That doesn't necessarily mean they aren't guarded when he's around.
In Chapter 9 is when he makes his intentions known. At this point, the party doesn't trust him and actively fight him anytime he shows up. Which is fine with Ardyn. At this point in his plan he just wants Noctis to put on the ring and absorb all the Crystal's Light so he can snuff out the Crystal, Gods, and the Lucis line. I'd say the party, Noctis even moreso, have zero trust in Ardyn and actively start to fight him once the betrayal is known.
I'll agree when it came to Vayne I didn't know what to make of him, but I did suspect he was the big bad. Even in his dialogue all his tells were there. He sees himself as the hero, will do whatever it takes to make the world a better place, etc. Quite frankly I don't find Vayne extremely compelling. I found the Judges more compelling and was given reasons why I should fight them. I thought Cid was a more interesting villain than Vayne was. I honestly don't have a good argument why I don't like Vayne. I am sure if I replayed XII I would be more up to task to discuss Vayne. As it stands, it's been a few years since I've played XII, but I distinctly remember liking the game less once
Cid was down for the count.
I may be off my rocker, but what I do remember of Vayne, I found him very 2-dimensional and not feeling any real strong feelings towards him. I didn't sympathize, like, hate, or found him enduring. He was just kinda there until he
hulked out at the end.
I find Ardyn compelling and fun to watch. At first, you don't know what to make of him. He's esoteric and eccentric. You never really trust him, but his actions also tell you he's not really on the Empire's side. So that should tell someone that he's doing everything for his own benefit and/or amusement.
You gain more information as you go and you start to see the seeds of his madness and you see him crack every once in a while. Which helps in the feeling of making him feel dangerous. I think these things are what make him fun to watch and what makes him a compelling villain.
Archetypes and tropes are the way they are because they (mostly) work.
I don't think that's necessarily bad, but it could be if someone is looking for something wholly unique. I too find the characters enjoyable and I am okay with some of the archetypes they may fall into. There are other things that help them feel like people and make them more 3-dimensional, such as their hobbies and them constantly playing off each other. It helps solidify their bond and sells you on their brotherhood.
I don't think the characters in XII are "boring." I think they are well-written and all have their arcs (including Penelo, as much as I didn't like her I think she does have a small arc). I don't disagree with anything you say in regards with the XII characters. However, I do disagree with the assertion that The four guys don't have their own arcs. Noctis has the most obvious arc with him going from a reluctant monarch to accepting his duty and sacrificing all for Eos. Prompto's arc is all about learning to accept who he is and learn to trust his friends and learn they don't see him as an easily object to discard at a moments notice. Gladio's arc is harder to parse, but his arc was learning patience (lame to some maybe), to fully accept Noctis as the King, and to accept that he doesn't have to do anything alone. It was a more subdued arc and not immediately apparent, I'll give you that, but it is there. Ignis's arc was embracing what happened to him and make the best of his disability. He had to grow and learn how to live with this disability.
I think the four guys all grew and developed throughout the story and even many of the side characters had their own arcs. I just think the game wasn't in your face about it. Which I could see it being argued that it wasn't good for the storytelling.
The only real retort I can give is that I personally find the four main characters more memorable than many other characters in other FF games. I know that's not a strong, logical response and wholly subjective, but that's just how I feel.
It should also be noted, that the japenese text is slightly different
Regis: Just how many lives have been sacrificed so far?
Crystal: All for the future king. And with that, we can finally end our duty. (yes, the voice used 'we' in the Japanese subs)
Regis: The king will fulfill his duty.
Crystal: But of course.
Regis: May the gods forgive me-"
Ganon Dragmire
Member
so this:
isn't canon in FFXV?
isn't canon in FFXV?
MissDeviling
Member
Fuck Pitioss dungeon. The first hour and a half was interesting. Now I'm just tearing my hair out at that room with the giant skull contraption.
This is absolutely fantastic. Thanks for sharing. Any chance there is something like this for the starscourge and Ifrit?
that's the best part though!
davidwhangchoi
Member
hi, i read it but don't understand why noctis has to die in the process to kill him.
and reading the link that Ardyn wins in almost every way, what happened when luna grabs him in death. so he dies while he's dead? he seemed surprised and didn't seem like he won but erased.
Just beat it, would probably give it an 8/10. Fun gameplay, cool (but somewhat empty) world, great soundtrack, and a bit of a lacking story.
While the four main characters were covered decently well would've loved to see more spotlight on some of the other supporting characters. Also were you able to see Iris, Cindy, or Aranea in the World of Ruin section at all? (Playable Iris or Aranea DLC would be pretty cool tbh.)
I'll dive into the post-game content tomorrow.
While the four main characters were covered decently well would've loved to see more spotlight on some of the other supporting characters. Also were you able to see Iris, Cindy, or Aranea in the World of Ruin section at all? (Playable Iris or Aranea DLC would be pretty cool tbh.)
I'll dive into the post-game content tomorrow.
Zeus The Dino
Member
Jesus having to pay for story expansions is a slap in the face
davidwhangchoi
Member
Oh another thing i was wondering, what happened to Cor?
he just vanishes.
he just vanishes.
He just becomes a hunter