Support NeoGAF

[Ran rp]

With the way Tabata has been revealing everything and making so many changes based on public reception of the demos and showings I get the feeling Tabata isn't too confident in his direction of the game.

 

[Mister Megative]

They getting desperate for good points now that spoilers and disappointing reviews are everywhere

Lol no

 

[Ran rp]

Lol no

I thought you were out of here?

Spoiler

I'm guilty too

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Can I cancel a digital preorder on PSN?

I'm realizing this isn't really the game I preordered and it doesn't even seem like the big bang artwork I so desperately wanted as a theme even ties into the game in a meaningful way.

I'll play it maybe when all dlc is released.

 

[raven777]

 

[Mister Megative]

I thought you were out of here?

Spoiler

I'm guilty too

It's like a train wreck. I can't stop looking at it.

 

[bigol]

Can I cancel a digital preorder on PSN?

I'm realizing this isn't really the game I preordered and it doesn't even seem like the big bang artwork I so desperately wanted as a theme even ties into the game in a meaningful way.

I'll play it maybe when all dlc is released.

Read this

https://www.playstation.com/en-au/g...ions/pre-orders/playstation-store-pre-orders/

Just don't download it. If you already started download they won't cancel your preorder.

 

[jett]

With the way Tabata has been revealing everything and making so many changes based on public reception of the demos and showings I get the feeling Tabata isn't too confident in his direction of the game.

I think simply changing BASIC shit about the combat solely based on fan feedback (like being able to change weapons, among other things) shows they never had a clue.

 

[Inuhanyou]

It's not bad writing that fucked up the game's story, it's bad management and harsh deadlines. It feels like lots of stuff got cut in the last moments.

.

That's what i thought. Most of all this time i've been saying that SE essentially have been destroying this game. They ejected Nomura and co because they wanted a game pushed out as quick as possible. Tabata stepped up, they rushed him and rushed him anyway, he cut out tons and tons of shit just to hit deadlines and save costs for the company, and this is what we get.

 

[Ran rp]

I think simply changing BASIC shit about the combat solely based on fan feedback (like being able to change weapons, among other things) shows they never had a clue.

To be fair if the core mechanics aren't fun for much of your target audience then it makes sense to change them for a better experience.

 

[Ran rp]

That's what i thought. Most of all this time i've been saying that SE essentially have been destroying this game. They ejected Nomura and co because they wanted a game pushed out as quick as possible. Tabata stepped up, they rushed him and rushed him anyway, he cut out tons and tons of shit just to hit deadlines and save costs for the company, and this is what we get.

How long has XV been in development?

 

[Inuhanyou]

How long has XV been in development?

4 years. But instead of encouraging a healthy development cycle, these guys want a "quicker cheaper" mentality, that's what i think about all the cuts and last minute changes even within the past 6 to 12 months.

 

[archvile7]

Can I cancel a digital preorder on PSN?

I'm realizing this isn't really the game I preordered and it doesn't even seem like the big bang artwork I so desperately wanted as a theme even ties into the game in a meaningful way.

I'll play it maybe when all dlc is released.

I thought about cancelling my digital pre-order as well, after reading some of the information here. But I realized, it will still be a fun game, and I'm sure a lot of the things we are seeing here are taken out of context. I'm more excited for the side missions and end/post-game bosses, collecting all of the best weapons, hidden end game stuff, etc.

 

[archvile7]

4 years. But instead of encouraging a healthy development cycle, these guys want a "quicker cheaper" mentality, that's what i think about all the cuts and last minute changes even within the past 6 to 12 months.

Would you not consider the time it spent as Versus XIII (where a lot of the ideas and characters in XV were born) to be a part of it's development cycle?

 

[Inuhanyou]

...

 

[JuanLatino]

That's what i thought. Most of all this time i've been saying that SE essentially have been destroying this game. They ejected Nomura and co because they wanted a game pushed out as quick as possible. Tabata stepped up, they rushed him and rushed him anyway, he cut out tons and tons of shit just to hit deadlines and save costs for the company, and this is what we get.

sadly it seems like it.
If nomuras games was too ambitious/expensive for them, i rather would have seen it getting cancelled and Tabata making his own game from the scratch. (tough i understand it from a business perspective)
Now it seems like a half baked recycled and rushed out Game of a Saga

The Question : What could have been, will be the most painful one when im playing this game, im sure of that

 

[gosoxtim]

there no denying it now tabi hatted nomura and the thing about nomura his only problem for xv would be the engine nomura even admited he had problems with square enix had problems with the engine which is why they swuth to unreal engine

 

[Nya]

sadly it seems like it.
If nomuras games was too ambitious/expensive for them, i rather would have seen it getting cancelled and Tabata making his own game from the scratch. (tough i understand it from a business perspective)
Now it seems like a half baked recycled Version of what could have been

The Question : What could have been, will be the most painful one when im playing this game, im sure of that

Oh, this hit me real hard you have no idea. I mean, I love the game and characters and I enjoyed many aspects of it. However, every time I think about the story I start thinking about the what ifs and how things would have been if they didn't cut and change everything last minute. I really hate SE's management after how they handled XV, its like they've learned absolutely nothing from XIII. To be completely honest guys, I don't think SE can ever give us games with good or engaging stories anymore. Its really really sad.

there no denying it now tabi hatted nomura and the thing about nomura his only problem for xv would be the engine nomura even admited he had problems with square enix had problems with the engine which is why they swuth to unreal engine

Lmao, don't be ridiculous.

 

[poipoipoi9]

sadly it seems like it.
If nomuras games was too ambitious/expensive for them, i rather would have seen it getting cancelled and Tabata making his own game from the scratch. (tough i understand it from a business perspective)
Now it seems like a half baked recycled and rushed out Game of a Saga

The Question : What could have been, will be the most painful one when im playing this game, im sure of that

In any case, a "Final Hours of FFXV" or in depth interviews in the Ultimania would definitely be a very interesting read. Hopefully a few months after release, SE would release information pertaining to the development of FFXV and whatever happened to Versus.

 

[Inuhanyou]

there no denying it now tabi hatted nomura and the thing about nomura his only problem for xv would be the engine nomura even admited he had problems with square enix had problems with the engine which is why they swuth to unreal engine

wat

 

[Inuhanyou]

In any case, a "Final Hours of FFXV" or in depth interviews in the Ultimania would definitely be a very interesting read. Hopefully a few months after release, SE would release information pertaining to the development of FFXV and whatever happened to Versus.

I've said it myself. THey are never going to release anything about the development of this game, because it would directly implicate SE leadership itself in how utterly irresponsible they have been for this entire project. Most of the issues have less to do with the developers on hand and more to do with the people actually coordinating and putting pressure on the devs without understanding how games are made.

Would you not consider the time it spent as Versus XIII (where a lot of the ideas and characters in XV were born) to be a part of it's development cycle?

*EDIT*

No, i had a brainfart lol, i get what you were asking now


As to your question, No i would not consider the Versus time period apart of the development cycle, because the game is not Versus, and most of the time of Versus, they were not in full production to begin with. Nomura had only announced he had gotten a full team and full production status in 2012 IIRC. They clearly rebooted it at this time, and brought over assets from the canceled game, but it was already changed at that point from the original concept, which is fine.

My feeling though, is that Nomura wanted to keep many more things that were originally in Versus's blue print than the higher ups were comfortable with, and this would have been a longer scale project with supposedly multiple titles that SE were not prepared to sign off on.

So he was ejected, and Tabata was recommissioned to make a game that was as cheap and quick to make with the least resources, so the story, characters and everything were heavily reorganized, edited and heavily cut down to the point of being unrecognizable. I think they might have atleast gotten one deadline put in front of them without warning, because then the cutting started more transparently and the edits became even more obvious.

*EDIT*

I made a mistake, i said that Nomura announced FFVersus had entered full production in 2012, when it had actually been late 2011

https://www.videogamer.com/news/final-fantasy-versus-xiii-now-in-100-development

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Read this

https://www.playstation.com/en-au/g...ions/pre-orders/playstation-store-pre-orders/

Just don't download it. If you already started download they won't cancel your preorder.

I was just chatting with an agent and they went ahead and cancelled it for me. Thanks.

I thought about cancelling my digital pre-order as well, after reading some of the information here. But I realized, it will still be a fun game, and I'm sure a lot of the things we are seeing here are taken out of context. I'm more excited for the side missions and end/post-game bosses, collecting all of the best weapons, hidden end game stuff, etc.

I eventually want to play it as well but it's nowhere near the game that got me hyped. I mean I was hooked by the night/moon theme that's even hinted at in the stand by me cover but it's all fluff with no payoff. I was invested in the lore that seemingly inspired the game... but it's not even relevant to the plot.

We can all sit here and say "maybe next time" but if SE is rewarded for this, they may not feel they need to try to make it better next time.

 

[gosoxtim]

No, i had a brainfart lol, i get what you were asking now


As to your question, No i would not consider the Versus time period apart of the development cycle, because the game is not Versus, and most of the time of Versus, they were not in full production to begin with. Nomura had only announced he had gotten a full team and full production status in 2012 IIRC. They clearly rebooted it at this time, and brought over assets from the canceled game, but it was already changed at that point from the original concept, which is fine.

My feeling though, is that Nomura wanted to keep many more things that were originally in Versus's blue print than the higher ups were comfortable with, and this would have been a longer scale project with supposedly multiple titles that SE were not prepared to sign off on.

So he was ejected, and Tabata was recommissioned to make a game that was as cheap and quick to make with the least resources, so the story, characters and everything were heavily reorganized, edited and heavily cut down to the point of being unrecognizable. I think they might have atleast gotten one deadline put in front of them without warning, because then the cutting started more transparently and the edits became even more obvious.

my question in this why was thing change neccarasy did they not trust nomura enough to make a good game you can say his disengs are werid but there no denying his game been constant good

 

[Kase]

Is Solheim still in the game in any form? Or has any mention of it been cut out completely?

 

[Crossing Eden]

Would you not consider the time it spent as Versus XIII (where a lot of the ideas and characters in XV were born) to be a part of it's development cycle?

Versus XIII for a long time had a skeleton crew due to the lightning trilogy that no one was asking for. Like at one point they literally only had two people working on all CGI related content. :|

 

[Inuhanyou]

my question in this why was thing change neccarasy did they not trust nomura enough to make a good game you can say his disengs are werid but there no denying his game been constant good

Its not about making a good game or not making a good game IMO, the people in charge of setting these deadlines and sharp mandates want less investment, less development time, even at the cost of of a good game or creative freedom.

Now i can understand why FF7R is being heavily outsourced and is now multiple titles in a saga instead of one title. These guys want to see faster results regardless of what happens.

 

[Mellahan]

I'm so confused; are bros dead or not?

 

[brad-t]

Funny their MMO of all things has a stronger narrative at this point. I really question what they were thinking when they started doing all the rewrites here.

I think what happened is that they took stock of the assets they had and looked to create a plot around those assets while creating as little new scenery as possible. That's how you end up with stuff like Ardyn switching bodies with Prompto through "a stitch in time" — it's the kinda plot you would make up when playing with action figures or something. To call it a plot development — along with a lot of the other stuff we've heard — is too generous. It's a contrivance, and it seems that quite a lot of the game is like that.

 

[gosoxtim]

Its not about making a good game or not making a good game IMO, the people in charge of setting these deadlines and sharp mandates want less investment, less development time, even at the cost of of a good game or creative freedom.

Now i can understand why FF7R is being heavily outsourced and is now multiple titles in a saga instead of one title. These guys want to see faster results regardless of what happens.

i'm glad ff7 remake is going to episodic though

 

[Inuhanyou]

I'm so confused; are bros dead or not?

In the end, i guess it doesn't matter if they are dead or not. I personally think based on the ending i saw that its a clear allusion to them sacrificing themselves to help Noctis get to the throne room. Others who are actually playing the game say there's no reason to think they are dead even though they clearly say goodbye and then flash back to the camp scene before where they knew what's going to happen.

I guess it just depends on what you want to see. They beat the bad guys on their end and escaped, or they died protecting Noctis. Either way, Insomnia in general was dead.

i'm glad ff7 remake is going to episodic though

Not episodic, its multiple 'full titles'. Obviously they are going to be smaller than what they would otherwise be, but i'm sure they will be big enough.

I'm also glad the game is being semi outsourced so SE internal has less of their hands on being able to fuck it up, also CC2 does excellent work with story related properties.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Ok so it's possible to make Old Noctis experience a midlife crisis and dress like a fellow kid.

It's weird, here's like the standard video game protagonist age now, (facial hair and all), and has been nicknamed "Old."

 

[gosoxtim]

Not episodic, its multiple 'full titles'. Obviously they are going to be smaller than what they would otherwise be, but i'm sure they will be big enough.

oh yeah forgot still that better then making one big full game and get more people to purcahce the other title as well

honesly though i though shinomura much was okay form i heard i think her kh was better then xv music which make me more exticed for kh3

 

[Ludger Kresnik]

I'm so confused; are bros dead or not?

If a bro dies in the woods and no one's around to hear it, does he make a sound?

 

[Inuhanyou]

I think the main takeaway for this game is that Versus assets should not have been repurposed as FF15. It should have been straight canceled and announced to the world. Instead we got a frankenstein that clearly shows its a frankenstein in prominent areas which may actually damage the brand more rather than help it.

Its not just about the story, entire areas being cut off from access, characters just disappearing off screen with no real explanation, the entire structure of the game changing to the point where a lot of these issues become more and more obvious. Its a problem

 

[gosoxtim]

I think the main takeaway for this game is that Versus assets should not have been repurposed as FF15. It should have been straight canceled and announced to the world. Instead we got a frankenstein that clearly shows its a frankenstein in prominent areas which may actually damage the brand more rather than help it.

Its not just about the story, entire areas being cut off from access, characters just disappearing off screen with no real explanation, the entire structure of the game changing to the point where a lot of these issues become more and more obvious. Its a problem

gee thanks sqaure thanks you for the rush game thank you for cutting nomura just because you dont want to be patient

 

[.JayZii]

The worm has turned.

 

[jett]

Ok so it's possible to make Old Noctis experience a midlife crisis and dress like a fellow kid.

It's weird, here's like the standard video game protagonist age now, (facial hair and all), and has been nicknamed "Old."

That is honestly such a monumentally better design it's ridiculous.

 

[DKHF]

my question in this why was thing change neccarasy did they not trust nomura enough to make a good game you can say his disengs are werid but there no denying his game been constant good

Its not about making a good game or not making a good game IMO, the people in charge of setting these deadlines and sharp mandates want less investment, less development time, even at the cost of of a good game or creative freedom.

Now i can understand why FF7R is being heavily outsourced and is now multiple titles in a saga instead of one title. These guys want to see faster results regardless of what happens.

I think the reason Nomura was taken off of XV is because Yosuke Matsuda (SE CEO as of late June 2013) saw the reception/declining sales of the Lightning trilogy and decided XV would have the same fate as multiple games (most likely also a trilogy), so decided XV (and other mainline games going forward) would be a standalone game and Nomura didn't agree to condensing the story that much so was replaced.

Then Matsuda let him make a project on the multi-game scale with the much safer bet of FFVII Remake. This makes sense considering Matsuda became CEO of SE literally weeks after the re-reveal of XV at E3 2013 where Nomura was still director and said it would be multiple games, then 6 months later (right around when FFVIIR dev started) he was replaced.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I think the reason Nomura was taken off of XV is because Yosuke Matsuda (SE CEO as of late June 2013) saw the reception/declining sales of the Lightning trilogy and decided XV would have the same fate as multiple games (most likely also a trilogy), so decided XV (and other mainline games going forward) would be a standalone game and Nomura didn't agree to condensing the story that much so was replaced.

Then Matsuda let him make a project on the multi-game scale with the much safer bet of FFVII Remake. This makes sense considering Matsuda became CEO of SE literally weeks after the re-reveal of XV at E3 2013 where Nomura was still director and said it would be multiple games, then 6 months later (right around when FFVIIR dev started) he was replaced.

Its possible. I mean we are all guessing here, but it seems like a safe conclusion based on events that transpired.

 

[Falk]

it's not a safe conclusion

heck no conclusion is safe

 

[DKHF]

Its possible. I mean we are all guessing here, but it seems like a safe conclusion based on events that transpired.

Yeah it's just a theory. As you've said we'll probably never know.

 

[MechaX]

With the way Tabata has been revealing everything and making so many changes based on public reception of the demos and showings I get the feeling Tabata isn't too confident in his direction of the game.

I got to wonder how Tabata feels about all of this; I mean, the dude got thrown from making B and C-tier mobile and PSP games and spin-offs straight into the deep end.

 

[JerkShep]

I just finished this game and yeah I don't think it's a great game. The story is whatever, the battle system is messy when there's a lot of enemies, the side content is not fun, traveling by car is slow af.. But I did enjoy how great it looks and the battle system, as messy as it is, it's still more fun than the likes of Skyrim and Witcher.

Chapter 13 was the worst part; hey we're gonna take away your weapons for half the chapter and you're gonna go through these endless boring looking corridors. Ugh. The best parts were the Leviathan fight and the train sequence, those two were the closest thing to the sequences shown in that E3 2013 trailer, the trailer that got me interested in the game in the first place, lol.

"Battle system is messy but still not as bad as Witcher and Skyrim" as the most positive aspect of the game basically killed every hype I had for it lol. Holy shit.

 

[Inuhanyou]

it's not a safe conclusion

heck no conclusion is safe

Hell you'd know more than anyone Falk. But its all we've got to go on, and you obviously can't say either way

 

[Ran rp]

I got to wonder how Tabata feels about all of this; I mean, the dude got thrown from making B and C-tier mobile and PSP games and spin-offs straight into the deep end.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I got to wonder how Tabata feels about all of this; I mean, the dude got thrown from making B and C-tier mobile and PSP games and spin-offs straight into the deep end.

I think tabata himself...for his part, did as good as anyone could be expected with the mandates SE probably had for the project, those mandates i feel were probably untenable in retrospect in order to deliver a fully competent product with what they had. So in that sense i think he'll get unfairly lambasted to hell for the game's flaws.

I am definitely not awaiting the metacritic thread and the wailing and gnashing of teeth that will be present

 

[poipoipoi9]

Ok so it's possible to make Old Noctis experience a midlife crisis and dress like a fellow kid.

It's weird, here's like the standard video game protagonist age now, (facial hair and all), and has been nicknamed "Old."

Oh wow. I'm gonna make him wear the silly baseball shirt + cap combo when I get the game.

 

[Solid Sora]

I think tabata himself...for his part, did as good as anyone could be expected with the mandates SE probably had for the project, those mandates i feel were probably untenable in retrospect in order to deliver a fully competent product with what they had. So in that sense i think he'll get unfairly lambasted to hell for the game's flaws.

I am definitely not awaiting the metacritic thread and the wailing and gnashing of teeth that will be present

I believe the game will review decently, and when it's all said and done, people will appreciate it for the step in the right direction and the survivor from development hell that it is.

 

[MagnaderAlpha]

I think the main takeaway for this game is that Versus assets should not have been repurposed as FF15. It should have been straight canceled and announced to the world. Instead we got a frankenstein that clearly shows its a frankenstein in prominent areas which may actually damage the brand more rather than help it.

Its not just about the story, entire areas being cut off from access, characters just disappearing off screen with no real explanation, the entire structure of the game changing to the point where a lot of these issues become more and more obvious. Its a problem

A part of is interested in FFXVI because for a LONG while, it will actually be something NEW that isn't FNC/FFXIII related or Frankensteined-Versus. Also, a part of me hopes they DON'T use Agni to KEEP it fresh without any baggage or expectations. Just give us a new world, new characters and new concepts that have some connection to "crystals", summons and light and darkness (and don't try to go overly complex with concepts, or fail to flesh out ideas you bring to the table).

 

[Big Green Anus]

versus xiii concept had 4 playable characters, not 1. That was a much better start

everything about this trailer looked fun to play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ7MwTXYLpg

That also looked REALLY far along. At this point we can assume it was most likely a rigged trailer, but conceptually it looks way more fun than everything I've played of Tabata's game

The combat looks more like Kingdom Hearts and action inspired. I prefer this compared to the current battle system which is too slow for my taste.