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[Marvel]

Ifrit avoiding Bahamut's swords was dope lol

 

[Bladenic]

Nah, Kefka was his own boss, Ardyn got thrown under the bus by the guide when it was revealed that Ifrit's responsible for star scourge.

That doesn't detract from Ardyn, it just makes Ifrit feel like a waste of a potential villain and making a traditionally early game, good summon into a villain. I mean they did that in terms of a boss fight but not otherwise.

 

[Mister Megative]

I wanted the fight to be mechanically interesting, and it wasn't. I understand why some people might like it that it was 'different', but having a memorable last boss is a staple of FF, and this was a shitty QTE. Just because you died during the fight because you messed up the QTE or didn't use a potion fast enough doesn't mean it was challenging or complex. It was honestly an enormously wasted opportunity and the mental gymnastics to justify it do nothing but cause future harm to the IP by excusing bad game design and watering down the climax of a game that already struggled to get the player to that moment.

Last bosses in games should be the ultimate test of the player's skill and require some setup and preparation. This boss not only removed all of your party members (HUGE no-no) but it didn't depend at all on the gear you were wearing, fully removing it from the relevance of the entire rest of the game.

What? Literally the only part that was a QTE is when you kill him.

 

[Peroroncino]

Ardyn was using Ifrit's starscourge for his own ends, though. He was not working for the god.

Ardyn is the mastermind, not Ifrit.

So what, he was a lackey, but not really? Feels like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNgxyL5zEAk

That doesn't detract from Ardyn, it just makes Ifrit feel like a waste of a potential villain and making a traditionally early game, good summon into a villain. I mean they did that in terms of a boss fight but not otherwise.

My post was mainly in disagreement that he's on Kefka level, not in disagreement that he was a bad villain.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Where is this pic from

That's his Kingsglaive model.

 

[Mister Megative]

Like 47 I think. Honestly, I never thought you could die in this fight. I thought it was more like the final Cloud/Sephiroth confrontation.

Nope, he can kill you. As I discovered.

 

[LiK]

I died in the Ardyn fight. It's possible.

 

[SoraanTribal]

1) Revenge against the gods and the Crystal for denying him the throne despite his sacrifice for the people of the world.

2) Wipe out the last "True King" chosen by the Crystal.

3) Wipe out the line of Izunia (Noctis' family), the "impostors".

4) Being able to die? This one is a bit unclear.


So he pretty much succeeded in everything he set out to do.




Incredibly easy and lacking of challenge.

But personally, I found it to be very meaningful story-wise. And the fact that you are fighting someone with your same exact set of powers was great.

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification! We don't know where the Starscourge came from so we? Wait, it came from ifrit? How so?

That scene plays very weirdly. You have those corpses, but neither Ardyn or Noctis seems to care, is an incredible wasted moment, because the imagery is there, but the game dosn't really does anything with it.

(and what is Nyx is doing there, TBH I couldn't even see clearly Regis or Luna, not even sure if it's them)



Slightly less shit that Levi, but shit nonetheless.

Yeah, I'm shocked neither of them referenced the corpses hanging up. Could have been another good dialogue from Ardyn.

 

[Ishida]

So what, he was a lackey, but not really? Feels like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNgxyL5zEAk

None of them was a lackey.

Ifrit's plan: Infect the entire world with Demons. Cause the end of the human race. Fuck the world up.

Ardyn's plan: Revenge against the gods. Shatter the Crystal. Kill the last True King. Kill the Izunia line.

Ardyn used Ifrit's plan in order to enact his, but he never truly cared for Demons. Revenge was his motivation.

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification! We don't know where the Starscourge came from so we?.

Yep, we do.

The starscourge is a parasite that infects human beings and turns them into Demons. It was created and brought to the world by Ifrit, who had a pretty poor opinion of mankind while the other gods were more positive or neutral.

The parasite also produces particles that cloud the atmosphere, whenever people die infected with them. This causes the "longer nights" phenomenon.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

Jim Sterling appears to have enjoyed his time with the game. I am really curious to see what he has to say considering his infamous FFXIII review

Jim Sterling ‏@JimSterling 14h14 hours ago
Just finished Final Fantasy XV. That was a fine, fine game.

Jim Sterling ‏@JimSterling 7h7 hours ago
Gonna be taking my time with the Final Fantasy XV review as there's a lot I want to put down. Short story is though, I liked it.

To refresh the memory, back when FFXIII was released, his 4/10 review score for it caused a lot of fan meltdown.

https://www.destructoid.com/review-final-fantasy-xiii-167136.phtml

Nope, he can kill you. As I discovered.

I died in the Ardyn fight. It's possible.

Count me too. I died just as the second form started as I was too careless.

 

[Mister Megative]

I wanted the fight to be mechanically interesting, and it wasn't. I understand why some people might like it that it was 'different', but having a memorable last boss is a staple of FF, and this was a shitty QTE. Just because you died during the fight because you messed up the QTE or didn't use a potion fast enough doesn't mean it was challenging or complex. It was honestly an enormously wasted opportunity and the mental gymnastics to justify it do nothing but cause future harm to the IP by excusing bad game design and watering down the climax of a game that already struggled to get the player to that moment.

Last bosses in games should be the ultimate test of the player's skill and require some setup and preparation. This boss not only removed all of your party members (HUGE no-no) but it didn't depend at all on the gear you were wearing, fully removing it from the relevance of the entire rest of the game.

Kefka was piss easy. You can one shot him with a simple combination of weapons and items. Most FF final bosses are moderately challenging at most.

As far as gear goes, equip the weakest weapons in the game and fight him again

 

[SoraanTribal]

I feel like I missed some papers on the ground somewhere that talked about ifrit lol.

 

[jb1234]

What did everyone think of his final boss fight? Would like to hear other opinions, as I loved it and it stands as my favorite one since Sephiroth.

Mixed feelings. I thought the first phase was alright (albeit easy, which I'm sure varies based on what level you fight him at. I was level 47) but the second phase went off the rails with the same aerial mechanics that doomed the Leviathan fight. In the end, it wasn't particularly memorable.

 

[Pygrus]

Jim Sterling appears to have enjoyed his time with the game. I am really curious to see what he has to say considering his infamous FFXIII review .

I thought he would enjoy it. He liked XCX and I think that XV does a lot of what XCX was trying to do, just better.

 

[SoraanTribal]

None of them was a lackey.

Ifrit's plan: Infect the entire world with Demons. Cause the end of the human race. Fuck the world up.

Ardyn's plan: Revenge against the gods. Shatter the Crystal. Kill the last True King. Kill the Izunia line.

Ardyn used Ifrit's plan in order to enact his, but he never truly cared for Demons. Revenge was his motivation.



Yep, we do.

The starscourge is a parasite that infects human beings and turns them into Demons. It was created and brought to the world by Ifrit, who had a pretty poor opinion of mankind while the other gods were more positive or neutral.

The parasite also produces particles that cloud the atmosphere, whenever people die infected with them. This causes the "longer nights" phenomenon.

Ohhh I see. Wonder why ifrit hated humans so much.

 

[TissueBox]

Jim Sterling appears to have enjoyed his time with the game. I am really curious to see what he has to say considering his infamous FFXIII review




To refresh the memory, back when FFXIII was released, his 4/10 review score for it caused a lot of fan meltdown.

https://www.destructoid.com/review-final-fantasy-xiii-167136.phtml

Oh sweet, glad to see he dug it. Keepin' tabs..!!

 

[Ishida]

Ohhh I see. Wonder why ifrit hated humans so much.

One of the many things that need an explanation, I guess.

But it falls into the usual trope of "rogue god who hates humanity".

 

[Arkeband]

A lot of players are going to be over leveled for that fight. I'm holding off judgement on the actual difficulty of it until new game + comes around and I play through the game again.

No mental gymnastics are needed to justify the last boss battle. It was just pure fun. You're saying it's just one big QTE, but that is a pretty big lie.

It's not a lie, there's a short segment when the fight starts that uses, loosely, some basic fight mechanics, but it's watered down to dodge/hit, because you have no party members. You don't even have to get his health down all the way. He doesn't use any big special moves, he doesn't use any status effects, it's about as involved as training with Gladio at camp.

Next you turn into a Super Saiyan and hold O, you can't lose this round, it's just fanservice. It sucked in the Leviathan fight when the development team shirked the responsibility of creating a meaningful and well designed fight, and it sucked here.

Next is a literal QTE where you have to press O 13 times.

And then it ends with a lazy "hold O" segment where he says some lines that get cut short because he has no health.

So while only one part is an actual QTE with QTE prompts, the rest is honestly just as bad and only exists to bombard the player with visuals, at the expense of gameplay.

 

[Peroroncino]

None of them was a lackey.

Ifrit's plan: Infect the entire world with Demons. Cause the end of the human race. Fuck the world up.

Ardyn's plan: Revenge against the gods. Shatter the Crystal. Kill the last True King. Kill the Izunia line.

Ardyn used Ifrit's plan in order to enact his, but he never truly cared for Demons. Revenge was his motivation.

This just makes the pain worse, as I realise that so much was underdeveloped story-wise in this game, especially Ifrit and Empire.

 

[Ishida]

This just makes the pain worse, as I realise that so much was underdeveloped story-wise in this game.

While I agree with you, I think Ardyn's backstory and motives are pretty well explained, all things considered. My main issues are elsewhere.

 

[Pygrus]

So while only one part is an actual QTE with QTE prompts, the rest is honestly just as bad and only exists to bombard the player with visuals, at the expense of gameplay.

What? So would you call all combat a QTE? Cus when i see an iron giant start swinging his sword i press dodge to avoid. When I saw ardyn attack me in his last phase, I press dodge. So what am I missing here?

 

[Peroroncino]

While I agree with you, I think Ardyn's backstory and motives are pretty well explained, all things considered. My main issues are elsewhere.

Yeah I edited that post a second ago, forgot to mention that I had 2 particular things on my mind.

All in all Ardyn probably got the most screen time in the whole game aside from the bros.

 

[vainglorious]

The CE guide says Ardyn is Ifrit's servant lol

Sure, Ardyn may be serving Ifrit in order to pursue a personal agenda but Ifrit is in charge regardless

 

[DiipuSurotu]

According to the recent leaks Chaos was originally part of the game's story. This gives credence to the theory that Ifrit is a repurposed Chaos IMO. I wonder if there was a Chaos/Garland kind of situation with him and Ardyn.

 

[Mister Megative]

It's not a lie, there's a short segment when the fight starts that uses, loosely, some basic fight mechanics, but it's watered down to dodge/hit, because you have no party members. You don't even have to get his health down all the way. He doesn't use any big special moves, he doesn't use any status effects, it's about as involved as training with Gladio at camp.

Next you turn into a Super Saiyan and hold O, you can't lose this round, it's just fanservice. It sucked in the Leviathan fight when the development team shirked the responsibility of creating a meaningful and well designed fight, and it sucked here.

Next is a literal QTE where you have to press O 13 times.

And then it ends with a lazy "hold O" segment where he says some lines that get cut short because he has no health.

So while only one part is an actual QTE with QTE prompts, the rest is honestly just as bad and only exists to bombard the player with visuals, at the expense of gameplay.

1: he has a giant purple lightsaber attack, a big ass purple AoE explosion, warp strike, and magic. Not sure how you missed all that.

2: at lvl 40, the recommended level, it took me constantly dodging and healing to stay alive. Didn't feel basic.

3: you can absolutely lose round 2. That's where I died. I believe Malik did as well.

I can tell you hated the game and that's fine. But you're wrong here.

 

[Ishida]

The CE guide says Ardyn is Ifrit's servant lol

Sure, Ardyn may be serving Ifrit in order to pursue a personal agenda but Ifrit is in charge regardless

From the game it definitely feels the other way around. Especially with the scene of Ardyn saying he will wait for you at the throne room and leaving Ifrit to fight you.

Also, the line clearly implies he expected you to kill Ifrit anyways.

 

[TissueBox]

Call a Chocobo with her. She has a pretty nice looking pink one.

Haha, awesome! Guess I know what I'm doin' after Adamantoise.

 

[Arkeband]

1: he has a giant purple lightsaber attack, a big ass purple AoE explosion, warp strike, and magic. Not sure how you missed all that.

2: at lvl 40, the recommended level, it took me constantly dodging and healing to stay alive. Didn't feel basic.

3: you can absolutely lose round 2. That's where I died. I believe Malik did as well.

I can tell you hated the game and that's fine. But you're wrong here.

I didn't "hate" the game, but I'm going to point out where it fell short and not make my own head-canon of why it actually meant to do everything it did wrong on purpose because it's the greatest game ever.

 

[vainglorious]

From the game it definitely feels the other way around. Especially with the scene of Ardyn saying he will wait for you at the throne room and leaving Ifrit to fight you.

Also, the line clearly implies he expected you to kill Ifrit anyways.

What's presented in the game is indeed murky but so isn't everything else related to the plot

 

[Ishida]

What's presented in the game is indeed murky but so isn't everything else related to the plot

I would not take the guide so seriously when it comes to plot points, also. The game takes precedence.

 

[Pygrus]

From the game it definitely feels the other way around. Especially with the scene of Ardyn saying he will wait for you at the throne room and leaving Ifrit to fight you.

Also, the line clearly implies he expected you to kill Ifrit anyways.

Honestly, this may be a bit of a stretch, but I could even imagine Ardyn wanting Ifrit to die to Noct, because Ardyn hates the Gods and the Izunia line.

Wiping out humanity never seemed like his goal. So I wouldn't put it past Ardyn to just bring Ifrit in on this so he could be killed.

 

[vainglorious]

I would not take the guide so seriously when it comes to plot points, also. The game takes precedence.

Well that's a problem since the only reason we really have any understanding about the starscourge is because of the guide

You do you though

 

[Pygrus]

I didn't "hate" the game, but I'm going to point out where it fell short and not make my own head-canon of why it actually meant to do everything it did wrong on purpose because it's the greatest game ever.

I don't think it's the greatest game ever, far from it actually. It is still a really good game.

It sounds like you are making up your own head-canon to rationalize why you hated the game dude.

 

[Ishida]

Honestly, this may be a bit of a stretch, but I could even imagine Ardyn wanting Ifrit to die to Noct, because Ardyn hates the Gods and the Izunia line.

Wiping out humanity never seemed like his goal. So I wouldn't put it past Ardyn to just bring Ifrit in on this so he could be killed.

Agreed. Besides, Ardyn did not need Ifrit any longer.

Ifrit create the starscourge. Ardyn absorbed it and became the new source of it (Bahamut explains this). By the time the game starts, Ifrit is pretty much a non-factor in Ardyn's plans, so he just sent the god to die.

 

[Mister Megative]

I didn't "hate" the game, but I'm going to point out where it fell short and not make my own head-canon of why it actually meant to do everything it did wrong on purpose because it's the greatest game ever.

That's fine, but you're wrong about pretty much everything you said about the final boss *shrug*.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Honestly, this may be a bit of a stretch, but I could even imagine Ardyn wanting Ifrit to die to Noct, because Ardyn hates the Gods and the Izunia line.

Wiping out humanity never seemed like his goal. So I wouldn't put it past Ardyn to just bring Ifrit in on this so he could be killed.

That's some Delita Hyral shit right there.

 

[Mailbox]

So it turns out my favourite theme (hellfire) wasn't a shinomura piece.

Honestly, this may be a bit of a stretch, but I could even imagine Ardyn wanting Ifrit to die to Noct, because Ardyn hates the Gods and the Izunia line.

Wiping out humanity never seemed like his goal. So I wouldn't put it past Ardyn to just bring Ifrit in on this so he could be killed.

I actually really like this explanation, even if it is head cannon. Fits Ardyn's character perfectly :3

 

[Socivol]

Ardyn's biggest problem was the same problems as the rest of the story. Too rushed to really appreciate.

I really hope they add additional story scenes with him in the 2nd half. I want to know more about what happened 2000 years ago. They have concept art in the guide of him riding into town to a parade I want to see more of that.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Honestly, this may be a bit of a stretch, but I could even imagine Ardyn wanting Ifrit to die to Noct, because Ardyn hates the Gods and the Izunia line.

Wiping out humanity never seemed like his goal. So I wouldn't put it past Ardyn to just bring Ifrit in on this so he could be killed.

I like this interpretation.

Really though, Ifrit's role in the game is up in the air. All we know for sure are the little snippets from the guide. Shiva acted like they had some sort of history between them, but that was just my headcanon interpretation of his death scene.

Forget Ravus, focus on Ifrit in the story patch

 

[Kwansu Dudes]

I feel like I missed some papers on the ground somewhere that talked about ifrit lol.

Feels like a Dark Souls/Bloodborne lore thread i.e. how the hell did you figure that out?

 

[vainglorious]

Agreed. Besides, Ardyn did not need Ifrit any longer.

Ifrit create the starscourge. Ardyn absorbed it and became the new source of it (Bahamut explains this). By the time the game starts, Ifrit is pretty much a non-factor in Ardyn's plans, so he just sent the god to die.

What? When Bahamut has Noctis in his hand I only remember him commenting on Ardyn's immortality by explaining, "the immortal Accursed" and says that Ardyn is immortal due to absorbing the starscourge. He doesn't say Ardyn is the new source of it.

 

[jb1234]

Man, I dunno. The more I think about it, the more I'm let down by Chapter 14. A desolate world that you're not given a chance to explore. Characters you're not allowed to catch up with. Even Insomnia is massively stripped down and disappointing as a final dungeon. And now I'm having trouble remembering that Ardyn even had QTE elements.

If not for the ending (specifically the final campfire scene, which reminded me of the relationship I have with some of my best friends), I'd probably be even more down on the game and how it handled telling its story.

 

[Mister Megative]

I like this interpretation.

Really though, Ifrit's role in the game is up in the air. All we know for sure are the little snippets from the guide. Shiva acted like they had some sort of history between them, but that was just my headcanon interpretation of his death scene.

Forget Ravus, focus on Ifrit in the story patch

I loved the notion there is some kind of contentious romance between Ifrit and Shiva. After all, she gave him what appeared to be a pretty tender kiss before he shattered into a million pieces.

 

[Arkeband]

Feels like a Dark Souls/Bloodborne lore thread i.e. how the hell did you figure that out?

Everything in Soulsborne games are actually within the game, though.

 

[Mister Megative]

What? When Bahamut has Noctis in his hand I only remember him commenting on Ardyn's immortality by explaining, "the immortal Accursed" and says that Ardyn is immortal due to absorbing the starscourge. He doesn't say Ardyn is the new source of it.

If he absorbed it......

 

[TissueBox]

I loved the notion there is some kind of contentious romance between Ifrit and Shiva. After all, she gave him what appeared to be a pretty tender kiss before he shattered into a million pieces.

I'd ship it.

Seriously though that sounds cool. More Ifrit/Shiva backstory plz SE...

 

[Mailbox]

Has anyone read all the cosmogony entries? I have a hunch about something :S

 

[Dominator]

This secret dungeon you have to fly too... Its so cool yet so frustrating.

 

[KupoNut]

I loved the Ifrit fight because I never saw Bahamut and Shiva's summoning sequence before and the fight had both. I really really hope they can add some more context to Ardyn with additional cutscenes, he was a great character.

I really loved the story but also really feel the rushedness of it, this could've been so much more.

 

[ED Cantu]

Did I enter an alternate universe? the last two pages with people talking about how good a villain Ardyn is when for me and my brother (having finished the game last night) he is maybe one of the worst main villains in the series.

I don't know, maybe we skipped some information in the game or didn't put attention in some parts, well maybe it's not that he's a bad villain but that his story is a mess, I'd like to read why some of you think he's such a good villain.