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[Raven117]

never knew having a weightlifting belt helps...DL 455lb. I dunno if I can reach 5 plates though. weight still roughly same 160lb.

This is a big'ol deadlift man! Congrats! You will get there!

Some people benefit from a weight belt with deadlift, others don't. Usually it comes down to whether the person can still set their back.

 

[NuncaBob]

Does anyone here use a full body 4days per week split?

Kind of but I do focus on some segment on each day so "full body" might be a bit strong for what I'm doing.

What's your split look like?

 

[NuncaBob]

Why so high on creatine? Isn't 5 gr per day if you don't do initial loads well enough for like 90% of non-professional athletes?

If you are over 200lb, something more like 10g can be helpful.

 

[GymWolf]

If you are over 200lb, something more like 10g can be helpful.

I eat a good amount of red meat\decently creatine rich fishes so i probably get more creatine than 5 gr per day.

I also heard that some people can have some light stomach problem when ingesting 10gr all at once from powder\capsules so i don't wanna try my luck.

 

[GymWolf]

Kind of but I do focus on some segment on each day so "full body" might be a bit strong for what I'm doing.

What's your split look like?

The premise is that i'm kinda in the worst shape of the past 15 years or so, i had a leg injury in dec and i could only start training seriously like one month ago, i'm doing a body recomp trying to lose fat and regain some muscle at the same time and it's working (mostly because i was blocked for so long so the body see me almost as a beginner\intermediate and you know that beginner gains\body transformation are stupidly fast), but to make it work i have to train hard, i have a trip in like 20 days so i have to be in the best shape possible, i fear that rushing and overdoing could slow the results but it is what it is, sometimes you can't chose what battles to fight.

Returning to the split, i think i'm overdoing, but it's the first time that i approach this type of split so i can't really tell, i can train vigorously for 90 to 120 min (included 20 min of mostly high kicks and knees and tap kicks with both legs at the heavy bag and 1 abs exercise) 4 times a week and fuck me i think i could add even another day and get to 5 days a week...i also have a pretty physical job 8-9 hours a day but it's that type of job where you can have hellish days where you constantly move and lift all type of weights or very light days where i barely walk around and lift light weights, so some days i'm more tired than others (but at the gym i'm almost always vigorous because i like training or the endorfine kicks or whatever the fuck is ).

I train monday and tuesday, then rest on wednesday, then train again thursday and friday and then rest for the other 2 days.

I'm keeping it simple on purpose in terms of set\reps because i'm a noob with this type of split, one exercise per muscle group every training day (so pecs, back, shoulders, legs, bic, tric, sometimes i throw a calf), obviously different exercises everyday to hit the muscles from all the angles, range of motions etc., if monday i do incline press with dumbells the day after i'm gonna do a cables cross for the lower pecs etc.) like i said the rep\sets are a very basic pyramid with incremental weight 12-10-8-6, for tric\bic\should sometimes i start from 15-20 and end with 10-8, very basic stuff, so 16 sets per muscle group per week, i think i'm in the right ratio for hyperthrophy (5 to 20 sets per week per muscle group) but maybe training every muscle group 4 times a week is overdoing or maybe training the bic\tri with the same volume as legs is not ideal (tbf i have way bigger legs than arms so it balance out unless i'm overtraining).

I was thinking about maintaining the number of sets to 16 but doing like monday pecs\back\shoulder, the day after legs\bic\tric (or whatever optimal muscle group split like upper\lower or push\pull but i'm not faimiliar with those neither, i always trained with bro split) then rest and repeat the other 2 days, so 2 exercises a day per muscle group to maintain the total number of sets but only training the muscles 2 times per week instead of 4.

But maybe the problem is that i can't have 16 sets for every damn muscle group to begin with...


Sorry for the WOT but without context is harder to give advices.

 

[NuncaBob]

I eat a good amount of red meat so i probably get more creatine than 5 gr per day.

I also heard that some people can have some light stomach problem when ingesting 10gr all at once from powder\capsules so i don't wanna try my luck.

I split the 10 up into two doses most days. It does seem to feel a bit better on the stomach.

 

[GymWolf]

I split the 10 up into two doses most days. It does seem to feel a bit better on the stomach.

I have to be brutally honest, i'm not really feeling the 5gr per day at all unless the effect is more hyped than i thought (it should not be the case) so i could try your solution but i really can't afford to have stomach problems at work or even worse at the gym, also i'm barely hungry enough to eat my daily proteins and calories already as it is

Maybe i'm just a creatine non-responder or it's taking its sweet time to have a noticeable effect, i heard that it usually take 2 to 4 weeks to kick in without loading phase and i'm at half of week 4...

 

[NuncaBob]

The premise is that i'm kinda in the worst shape of the past 15 years or so, i had a leg injury in dec and i could only start training seriously like one month ago, i'm doing a body recomp trying to lose fat and regain some muscle at the same time and it's working (mostly because i was blocked for so long so the body see me almost as a beginner\intermediate and you know that beginner gains\body transformation are stupidly fast), but to make it work i have to train hard, i have a trip in like 20 days so i have to be in the best shape possible, i fear that rushing and overdoing could slow the results.

Returning to the split, i think i'm overdoing, but it's the first time that i approach this type of split so i can't really tell, i can train vigorously for 90 to 120 min (included 20 min of mostly high kicks and knees and tap kicks with both legs at the heavy bag and 1 abs exercise) 4 times a week and fuck me i think i could add even another day and get to 5 days a week...i also have a pretty physical job 8-9 hours a day but it's that type of job where you can have hellish days where you constantly move and lift all type of weights or very light days where i barely walk around and lift light weights, so some days i'm more tired than others (but at the gym i'm almost always vigorous because i like training or the endorfine kicks or whatever the fuck is ).

My job is completely sedentary. It's interesting that you have to factor on the effort you have at work. I'm sure that makes it harder than it might normally be sometimes.

I train monday and tuesday, then rest on wednesday, then train again thursday and friday and then rest for the other 2 days.

That's what I do most of the time. Seems like a good work/rest ratio for me.

I'm keeping it simple on purpose in terms of set\reps because i'm a noob with this type of split, one exercise per muscle group every training day (so pecs, back, shoulders, legs, bic, tric, sometimes i throw a calf), obviously different exercises everyday to hit the muscles from all the angles, range of motions etc., if monday i do incline pushups with dumbells the day after i'm gonna do a cables cross for the lower pecs etc.) like i said the rep\sets are a very basic pyramid with incremental weight 12-10-8-6, for tric\bic\should sometimes i start from 15-20 and end with 10-8, very basic stuff, so 16 sets per muscle group per week, i think i'm in the right ratio for hyperthrophy (5 to 20 sets per week per muscle group) but maybe training every muscle group 4 times a week is overdoing or maybe training the bic\tri with the same volume as legs is not ideal (tbf i have way bigger legs than arms so it balance out unless i'm overtraining).

I was thinking about maintaining the number of sets to 16 but doing like monday pecs\back\shoulder, the day after legs\bic\tric (or whatever optimal muscle group split like upper\lower or push\pull but i'm not faimiliar with those neither, i always trained with bro split) then rest and repeat the other 2 days, so 2 exercises a day per muscle group to maintain the total number of sets but only training the muscles 2 times per week instead of 4.

One thing you might try is give one muscle group a rest one day out of four but do two exercises for that muscle group on one of the other days. So, it's a full body split but with a bit of extra work on one day. That's sort of against the idea that you might be overdoing it. You are doing rather large sets. I think there's some notion here that instead of lowering the number of reps, you could lower the weight and keep close to the same volume between sets. The science is sort of all over the map on that particular bit.

Another option if you have limited time and want maximum results is doing a week of myoreps and do only one body group per day. So, if it's shoulder day, you might do reverse flys on the machine. And then, full ROM atlas press (I don't know the name but the dumbbells start in front with palms facing you then you lift to a lateral raise and keep going all the around until you have the dumbbells over your head). Doing a week of this as a change of pace might help keep things interesting.

 

[NuncaBob]

I have to be brutally honest, i'm not really feeling the 5gr per day at all unless the effect is more hyped than i thought (it should not be the case) so i could try your solution but i really can't afford to have stomach problems at work or even worse at the gym, also i'm barely hungry enough to eat my daily proteins and calories already as it is

Maybe i'm just a creatine non-responder or it's taking its sweet time to have a noticeable effect, i heard that it usually take 2 to 4 weeks to kick in without loading phase and i'm at half of week 4...

I can see the size difference though it's definitely puffier than when I'm not on it. As for actual performance, I think the muscle endurance is what I notice more than any actual strength difference. I maybe can get an extra rep that I couldn't without it.

 

[GymWolf]

I can see the size difference though it's definitely puffier than when I'm not on it. As for actual performance, I think the muscle endurance is what I notice more than any actual strength difference. I maybe can get an extra rep that I couldn't without it.

Yeah but it is so hard to attrribute a single rep or even 2 to just supplements...it could really be everything, maybe you eat a bit more carbs pre-workout (or in your daily total), the day is not as hot, you sweat less, you feel more energized, maybe you are still sore (or not) from the previous training etc.

I feel like except from being on gear (never tried but i guess it must feel incredible), stuff like creatine is harder to feel for some people, i think the only sure effect supplements i ever had were normal caffeine tablets (i don't drink coffee so it particularly work on me) and some noo-tropic mind shit present in some pre-workouts i tried when i was stupid and younger (that shit locked you in with the focus of a 1000 minotaurs).

p.s. my diet is not...particularly low in sodium, so it's hard to tell if water retention is caused by the salt or the creatine, i don't feel more puffy, just bigger and harder because i'm regaining my lost muscles, again, hard to say what is doing what and in what percentage...

 

[GymWolf]

My job is completely sedentary. It's interesting that you have to factor on the effort you have at work. I'm sure that makes it harder than it might normally be sometimes.

That's what I do most of the time. Seems like a good work/rest ratio for me.

One thing you might try is give one muscle group a rest one day out of four but do two exercises for that muscle group on one of the other days. So, it's a full body split but with a bit of extra work on one day. That's sort of against the idea that you might be overdoing it. You are doing rather large sets. I think there's some notion here that instead of lowering the number of reps, you could lower the weight and keep close to the same volume between sets. The science is sort of all over the map on that particular bit.

Another option if you have limited time and want maximum results is doing a week of myoreps and do only one body group per day. So, if it's shoulder day, you might do reverse flys on the machine. And then, full ROM atlas press (I don't know the name but the dumbbells start in front with palms facing you then you lift to a lateral raise and keep going all the around until you have the dumbbells over your head). Doing a week of this as a change of pace might help keep things interesting.

I'm gonna analyze your post tomorrow because it's 1:29 am in italy and i have to force my ass into sleep even if i'm probably gonna stay awake until fucking 3:30am or something thinking about the stupidest stuff because my sleep schedule has been beyond fucked for the past 20 years, good night sir.

Btw, i don't really measure my effort, i always try to push at max when i train, i get a second wind during training.

 

[tamago84]

Worked out on/off since college (15 yrs). Been extremely consistent for the past year due to gym membership. I was doing 4-5 weekly now do 3x week.

 

[NuncaBob]

Worked out on/off since college (15 yrs). Been extremely consistent for the past year due to gym membership. I was doing 4-5 weekly now do 3x week.

How have your results been? That kind of consistency seems like it would pay dividends.

 

[tamago84]

How have your results been? That kind of consistency seems like it would pay dividends.

I believe its been good. I dont want to get bigger anymore so just maintaining for now, and trying to work on squat

Several times during my past i did not have a proper relationship with food; went up and down on weight (low as 115 to 145 without much muscle), but im comfortable now.

5’5” 160lbs- bench 315lb/squat 315lb/dl 455lb

 

[NuncaBob]

5’5” 160lbs- bench 315lb/squat 315lb/dl 455lb

Damn! That's impressive. Keep up the good work.

 

[tamago84]

how do some of ya scale out DLs? Last week I did something along lines of 385x3, 425x2, 455x1. today i tried 395x3, 435x2, 460x1. i failed the 460. i wonder if i should lower the first set and attempt higher weight on the 2nd or 3rd.

 

[NuncaBob]

how do some of ya scale out DLs? Last week I did something along lines of 385x3, 425x2, 455x1. today i tried 395x3, 435x2, 460x1. i failed the 460. i wonder if i should lower the first set and attempt higher weight on the 2nd or 3rd.

Have you considered going in reverse? Do the heaviest weight first for as many reps as you can? Then, drop it for the subsequent sets.

Also, I generally don't like this low of volume every time I do an exercise. I hesitate to tell you how to do something given the weights you're dealing with. It's obviously working. But, you might see some movement in your max if you were doing like 365x10, 350x7 and so on for 4 or 5 sets. Get that volume up as it were.

 

[NuncaBob]

Not sure if you are into Dr. Mike's brand of advice but he has several videos about the deadlift like this one:

 

[tamago84]

I forgot to mention, i do a 4th set and lower weight-say like 355 x5. Ill continue to mix around, thanks.

6/25: was able to knock out 460lb cool

 

[Raven117]

I believe its been good. I dont want to get bigger anymore so just maintaining for now, and trying to work on squat

Several times during my past i did not have a proper relationship with food; went up and down on weight (low as 115 to 145 without much muscle), but im comfortable now.

5’5” 160lbs- bench 315lb/squat 315lb/dl 455lb

That is a big bench for that body weight. (decent deadlift as well).

I would consider going in reverse on your DL. Warm up, and try and hit 1 heavy single. (My bet is you can do more than 460, but start there and get it), Then back off 90 percent. Maybe hit 2 sets there. Then drop to 80 percent of 460 and hit 1 or 2. 3x3 for all but your 1 rep max. Next week, maybe push everything up by 5 pounds.

 

[tamago84]

That is a big bench for that body weight. (decent deadlift as well).

I would consider going in reverse on your DL. Warm up, and try and hit 1 heavy single. (My bet is you can do more than 460, but start there and get it), Then back off 90 percent. Maybe hit 2 sets there. Then drop to 80 percent of 460 and hit 1 or 2. 3x3 for all but your 1 rep max. Next week, maybe push everything up by 5 pounds.

Will look into it, ty. Does it feel different to do a warm up then suddenly aim for a much higher weight on the first real set?

 

[Raven117]

Will look into it, ty. Does it feel different to do a warm up then suddenly aim for a much higher weight on the first real set?

I would suggest something like

1x5-225, 1x3-275, 1x2-315, 1x1-365, 1x1- 405, 1x1-435. Then hit it.

(If you are young, you can get away with less… especially on the low end..

With you work out, you are basically doing this anyway!)

 

[tamago84]

I would suggest something like

1x5-225, 1x3-275, 1x2-315, 1x1-365, 1x1- 405, 1x1-435. Then hit it.

(If you are young, you can get away with less… especially on the low end..

With you work out, you are basically doing this anyway!)

O i misunderstood reverse DL- i thought one starts at a high weight then drop lower after each set

Sadly i am 40 now

 

[Raven117]

O i misunderstood reverse DL- i thought one starts at a high weight then drop lower after each set

Sadly i am 40 now

I was suggesting that be your warm up.

Once you hit your 460, drop 90 to percent of 460 for a triple. Then drop 80 percent of 460 for 2x3.

I’m also in my early 40s. This has helped drive my deadlift. (Won’t last forever though.. then you will need to get some more volume (as in tonnage) in

 

[tamago84]

I was suggesting that be your warm up.

Once you hit your 460, drop 90 to percent of 460 for a triple. Then drop 80 percent of 460 for 2x3.

I’m also in my early 40s. This has helped drive my deadlift. (Won’t last forever though.. then you will need to get some more volume (as in tonnage) in

Oh ic- thank you.

 

[Raven117]

Oh ic- thank you.

No worries, let us know what you decide to do and how it goes! I like deadlifts as well. My leverages just favor them (as opposed to squats)

 

[Raven117]

Oh ic- thank you.

Any updates on your last few deadlifts sessions?

 

[tamago84]

Any updates on your last few deadlifts sessions?

I was able to do 460lb- one thing I notice is trying to let glute and hamstring play its part to drive up rather than focusing so much on back.

 

[Raven117]

I was able to do 460lb- one thing I notice is trying to let glute and hamstring play its part to drive up rather than focusing so much on back.

Yeah. At that weight, you start focusing on one thing, and sometimes to the detriment of others.

Think “push from the floor.” Think “standing leg press.” This helps keep my glutes and hamstrings engaged.

Congrats on the lift!

 

[tamago84]

475lb dl! 20lbs away from 5 plate..

 

[k1m1d4n]

475lb dl! 20lbs away from 5 plate..

By this you mean 5×20kg plates on each side of the bar + the weight of the bar....
Amazing!!! YOU ARE A BEAST