Support NeoGAF

[Mr.City]

Afaik, military press is with heels together, overhead press is with legs slightly wider than shoulders.

No, this is correct. The miltary press is with the heels together (very strict). The overhead press is with feet shoulder width apart, allowing for some hip action. The push press is adding the legs into the mix.

Somewhere along the way, the military press became the catch all phrase for anything involving overhead pressing, like the seated smith machine military press. The difference between overhead and military isn't earth shattering, however there is a difference.

 

[Jaladinozozo]

This is totally anecdotal but lately I have been getting into the best shape I have ever been just doing three exercises - pull-ups, pushups, and bodyweight squats. I have weight lifted for many years, and I have always incorporated these exercises into my routine along with the weights, but now I am getting into the shape I always wanted.

I don't know what it is...maybe since dropping the weights I am able to focus on many more reps/circuits of these exercises. Also my recovery is much faster; I can do my routine every other day and never feel at risk for any overtraining. I also feel much more motivated because the routine is simple, there is nothing to setup. Its also more satisfying to be able to add so many more reps and sets each week than a few lbs to your lifts.

And best of all it’s getting me the body I always wanted. Not bulky with huge biceps, but I am getting really lean, my abs are starting to show even though I don't do any sit-ups, and I just feel much faster, more agile and more flexible.

Anyway like I said this is completely anecdotal and my own experience but I think it’s never a bad idea to just drop the weights for a while and see what you can achieve with bodyweight exercises alone.

 

[MrToughPants]

Nope, like I said, it's the same shit.

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/BBMilitaryPress.html

Foot placing can be different. Military press should also be strict.

OHP you can cheat with hip drive and the chest will assist on the press.

Exrx is not the greatest site and the strength standard chart is well below standards. Try PLwatch or 100% raw for elite standards.

Strict 150kg OHP

 

[IrishNinja]

jesus christ shogun, congrats on beast mode! im just starting deadlifting myself.

speaking of, was noticing how low my scores on fitocracy are on back/bicep day, as well as chest/tris (lucky if i clear 400-500 pts) compared to leg day, when squatting, deadlifting, running etc net over 1k...so i saw other dudes getting big points with cleans and crazy shit like that, that ive never done.

ive watched youtube videos, but im totally not comfortable trying out any motion that calls for lifting weight over your head and what looks like arching/almost jerking your back in the process...gotta assume form is key here, but those of you who do motions like this, you were taught by someone, yeah? hate to sound like a pussy, i just get nervous on shit that looks like it could fuck my knees/back right up. still curious, though.

 

[The Last Wizard]

I'm looking for a protein powder to make shakes with, any advice? I'm looking to use it for bulking.

Oh and a new shake cup/container as my Klein kanteen doesn't seem to be the best fit for shakes.

 

[Mr.City]

jesus christ shogun, congrats on beast mode! im just starting deadlifting myself.

speaking of, was noticing how low my scores on fitocracy are on back/bicep day, as well as chest/tris (lucky if i clear 400-500 pts) compared to leg day, when squatting, deadlifting, running etc net over 1k...so i saw other dudes getting big points with cleans and crazy shit like that, that ive never done.

ive watched youtube videos, but im totally not comfortable trying out any motion that calls for lifting weight over your head and what looks like arching/almost jerking your back in the process...gotta assume form is key here, but those of you who do motions like this, you were taught by someone, yeah? hate to sound like a pussy, i just get nervous on shit that looks like it could fuck my knees/back right up. still curious, though.

Anything can destroy your knees and back in the weight room. This is where knowledge is power. As for "jerking the back in the process," I suggest you rewatch those videos. No one jerks their back when pressing overhead. This is arching of the back you mention is accurate though. By contracting your abs, upper/ lower back ,and shit, just your entire torso, it allows your back to remain a fairly neutral position.

I'm assuming you also saw some snatches and clean and jerks. If anything those will destroy your shoulders before anything else. I learn most of my lifts by reading Starting Strength and attending some 70s Big workshops in Chicago.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

No, this is correct. The miltary press is with the heels together (very strict). The overhead press is with feet shoulder width apart, allowing for some hip action. The push press is adding the legs into the mix.

Somewhere along the way, the military press became the catch all phrase for anything involving overhead pressing, like the seated smith machine military press. The difference between overhead and military isn't earth shattering, however there is a difference.

Do you have a source for that? Because I did "military press" in the "military" and it was just a regular dumbbell overhead press.

Everywhere I've seen military press and OHP interchangeable, if that's wrong, I would like to know. It's always good to learn something new.

Foot placing can be different. Military press should also be strict.

OHP you can cheat with hip drive and the chest will assist on the press.

Exrx is not the greatest site and the strength standard chart is well below standards. Try PLwatch or 100% raw for elite standards.

Strict 150kg OHP

Foot placing can be different in many exercises. The only time it may matter is for competition.

Also, I only used the site to show that military/ohp are the same.

Also, how are the standards wrong? Everywhere I'm looking they are the same as the one listed there.

Edit: All I'm getting on the site you're recommending is a total weight, not per exercise weight. http://www.rawpowerlifting.com/classifications.htm

Also, those sites are a clusterfuck to navigate, holy shit.

Edit2: The guy in your video used hipdrive as well btw. It's strict, like it's supposed to be, but he still used hip drive (you're supposed to).

jesus christ shogun, congrats on beast mode! im just starting deadlifting myself.

speaking of, was noticing how low my scores on fitocracy are on back/bicep day, as well as chest/tris (lucky if i clear 400-500 pts) compared to leg day, when squatting, deadlifting, running etc net over 1k...so i saw other dudes getting big points with cleans and crazy shit like that, that ive never done.

ive watched youtube videos, but im totally not comfortable trying out any motion that calls for lifting weight over your head and what looks like arching/almost jerking your back in the process...gotta assume form is key here, but those of you who do motions like this, you were taught by someone, yeah? hate to sound like a pussy, i just get nervous on shit that looks like it could fuck my knees/back right up. still curious, though.

Thanks man!

Also, I don't do clean/jerks, shit scares me just like it scares you, haha.

 

[deadbeef]

Do you have a source for that? Because I did "military press" in the "military" and it was just a regular dumbbell overhead press.

Everywhere I've seen military press and OHP interchangeable, if that's wrong, I would like to know. It's always good to learn something new.



Foot placing can be different in many exercises. The only time it may matter is for competition.

Also, I only used the site to show that military/ohp are the same.

Also, how are the standards wrong? Everywhere I'm looking they are the same as the one listed there.

Edit: All I'm getting on the site you're recommending is a total weight, not per exercise weight. http://www.rawpowerlifting.com/classifications.htm

Also, those sites are a clusterfuck to navigate, holy shit.




Thanks man!

Also, I don't do clean/jerks, shit scares me just like it scares you, haha.

Because elite is a ranking in the sport of powerlifting whereas that weight lifting standard sheet is... Well I dunno what it is.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Because elite is a ranking in the sport of powerlifting whereas that weight lifting standard sheet is... Well I dunno what it is.

Well, it's everywhere, crossfit even uses the damned thing. They cite kilgore and rippetoe on the page for it, but it's vague on if they actually "contributed" the numbers. It's more likely it's just the definition of the exercises and how to do them.

All I know is that the numbers for elite are big, and that's what I'm aiming for for right now for 2 of my big lifts. It could be the assfuck standard for all I care and I would say "I'm going for assfuck."

Edit: Press isn't a powerlift?

In that chart from rawpowerlifting it only counts DL, Bench, and Squat.

 

[kylej]

Konstantinovs just uploaded video of his first post-injury meet. If you want to see a big ass dude lift some heavy ass weight it's worth a watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hO9k_TXtGA&t=0m24s

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Konstantinovs just uploaded video of his first post-injury meet. If you want to see a big ass dude lift some heavy ass weight it's worth a watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hO9k_TXtGA&t=0m24s

Jesus, when he did 400kg that's how I felt at 475lbs.

Dude is a beast.

 

[ezrarh]

I love watching Konstantinovs do his deadlifts.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

I wonder if it's alright for me to buy the NB minimus, even though I supinate. If not, then I'll just buy a pair of Nimbus.

 

[MrToughPants]

Foot placing can be different in many exercises. The only time it may matter is for competition.

Also, I only used the site to show that military/ohp are the same.

Also, how are the standards wrong? Everywhere I'm looking they are the same as the one listed there.

Edit: All I'm getting on the site you're recommending is a total weight, not per exercise weight. http://www.rawpowerlifting.com/classifications.htm

Also, those sites are a clusterfuck to navigate, holy shit.

Edit2: The guy in your video used hipdrive as well btw. It's strict, like it's supposed to be, but he still used hip drive (you're supposed to).

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough by hip drive and chest involvement.

Hepburn press

vs

Redding press

Both are still considered OHP it's just one has a shit load more hip drive/chest. Lots of strongmen do their presses this way if it's not a push press, just look at vids of Savickas pressing.The debate over this lift being legit is why it eventually got canned from the Olympics.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough by hip drive and chest involvement.

Hepburn press

vs

Redding press

Both are still considered OHP it's just one has a shit load more hip drive/chest. Lots of strongmen do their presses this way if it's not a push press, just look at vids of Savickas pressing.The debate over this lift being legit is why it eventually got canned from the Olympics.

The second one he's using his knees it looks like, but it's admittedly hard to tell at that angle (which would make it a push press).

The first one I'm not even sure what you're showing. It's hard to see anything in that one.

The hipdrive I'm talking about is what Rippetoe mentions in his press videos, It's pushing back at the hips just like the guy in your first video does for leverage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAXPJ3PfdyY

Right at the end, he also mentions it in other videos.

Regardless, I'm not sure what this has to do with the military/ohp debate. I'm more than happy to be wrong, I love learning new shit, I just want some kind of legit source explaining the difference between the two since I've come up learning they are the same thing, and everywhere I look they are the same.

Also, you didn't clarify the power lift stats thing. Are they actually out of date/low? How come press isn't on that list? I thought press was a power lift.

I realize I can come off as "biting" in my posts, and that's not the case, believe me. I'm not trying to be aggressive/defensive or confrontational. My posts are just direct typically. If we had this conversation in person it would play out differently. Rest assured I'm not meaning to come off as an asshole, I'd just like clarification on what's what, and if you're more knowledgeable than me (which is very likely) I'd like some good info for my own edification.

 

[Cooter]

I try not to use any lower body at all to get my press up. Keep my feet nearly together too.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

I try not use any lower body at all to get my press up. Keep my feet nearly together too.

Yeah, you will get more the heavier you go more than likely. It tends to just happen as you move your head/torso forward to get the bar in the right spot (under the bar). Either way, it's minimal as hell.

I tend to keep my feet at deadlift width, which is pretty close too.

 

[Domino Theory]

jesus christ shogun, congrats on beast mode! im just starting deadlifting myself.

Heh, I remember when I first started the Deadlift in January '11 when I started Leangains at that time. I could only do 90lbs 3x6 with my lower back hurting like a bitch despite proper form since my lower back was so weak then.

Now I do 180 3x6 with no lower back pain.

Enjoy the Deadlift. It's in my top 3 favorite exercises.

 

[IrishNinja]

Thanks man!

Also, I don't do clean/jerks, shit scares me just like it scares you, haha.

heh, glad i'm not alone here. i think it's something ill try when im with someone who's comfortable with said motion, at a low weight.

Heh, I remember when I first started the Deadlift in January '11 when I started Leangains at that time. I could only do 90lbs 3x6 with my lower back hurting like a bitch despite proper form since my lower back was so weak then.

Now I do 180 3x6 with no lower back pain.

Enjoy the Deadlift. It's in my top 3 favorite exercises.

my god, that's like exactly where i'm at, and feeling the same way - i keep rechecking my form, even asking random dudes but they insist it's good, so im thinking "why am i feeling my lower back if this is supposed to be mostly hamstrings?", you just explained it i guess. started doing weighted hyperextensions (is that what it's called? were you bend over this cushion with your legs vertical and bring your head/torso down, then carefully back up? been doing this with 30-40lb dumbbells to work on that area), but it's clearly not the same.
looking forward to strengthening my lower back & seeing better #'s here then, too - guess this will be a new focus on leg day. any articles/highlights to read on leangains? again, site looks great but not sure where to start.

 

[Domino Theory]

heh, glad i'm not alone here. i think it's something ill try when im with someone who's comfortable with said motion, at a low weight.




my god, that's like exactly where i'm at, and feeling the same way - i keep rechecking my form, even asking random dudes but they insist it's good, so im thinking "why am i feeling my lower back if this is supposed to be mostly hamstrings?", you just explained it i guess. started doing weighted hyperextensions (is that what it's called? were you bend over this cushion with your legs vertical and bring your head/torso down, then carefully back up? been doing this with 30-40lb dumbbells to work on that area), but it's clearly not the same.
looking forward to strengthening my lower back & seeing better #'s here then, too - guess this will be a new focus on leg day. any articles/highlights to read on leangains? again, site looks great but not sure where to start.

Yeah, I always had the gym director check me out while I did Deadlifts and he kept telling me "your form is perfect, it always has been, you don't need to keep making me check it". After the time came when my lower back never hurt, I realized it was because it had gradually gotten stronger and more stable.

The same can be said for my dips. I started dips needing 100lb of assistance on the dip/chin assist machine and it hurt. Gradually as I pushed through with it, I kept lowering the amount of assistance weight. Now I do my bodyweight + 27.5lbs added to my waist.

All of these progressions came while I was on a pretty heavy calorie deficit, too, so there's definitely more to it than simply needing to eat more to get bigger/stronger- your body has to get acquainted with the new stressor you're introducing.

Also, for Leangains, try this FAQ - http://examine.com/leangains-faq/

 

[deadbeef]

Also, you didn't clarify the power lift stats thing. Are they actually out of date/low? How come press isn't on that list? I thought press was a power lift.

The sport of (big P) Power Lifting consists of three exercises: the parallel back squat, the bench press, and the deadlift. It is scored by totaling all the successful lifts performed during a meet. There are different totals for each body weight class that serve as rankings and Elite is the top ranking. The total for elite differs based on the powerlifting federation rules and the weight class.

The overhead press and military press are good (little p) power lifts in that they are great compound lifts but they aren't competition lifts in the sport of Power Lifting.

 

[IceCold]

I thought dead lifts did lower back too. Doesn't it?

 

[Mr.City]

Yes, they "do" your lower back. Deadlifts work a long range of muscles, including the lower back.

 

[MrToughPants]

The second one he's using his knees it looks like, but it's admittedly hard to tell at that angle (which would make it a push press).

The first one I'm not even sure what you're showing. It's hard to see anything in that one.

The hipdrive I'm talking about is what Rippetoe mentions in his press videos, It's pushing back at the hips just like the guy in your first video does for leverage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAXPJ3PfdyY

Right at the end, he also mentions it in other videos.

Regardless, I'm not sure what this has to do with the military/ohp debate. I'm more than happy to be wrong, I love learning new shit, I just want some kind of legit source explaining the difference between the two since I've come up learning they are the same thing, and everywhere I look they are the same.

Also, you didn't clarify the power lift stats thing. Are they actually out of date/low? How come press isn't on that list? I thought press was a power lift.

I realize I can come off as "biting" in my posts, and that's not the case, believe me. I'm not trying to be aggressive/defensive or confrontational. My posts are just direct typically. If we had this conversation in person it would play out differently. Rest assured I'm not meaning to come off as an asshole, I'd just like clarification on what's what, and if you're more knowledgeable than me (which is very likely) I'd like some good info for my own edification.

Yea the Hepburn vid is a terrible example my bad, the one you linked is a good explanation on a strict press. The press isn't a comp lift anymore because of the debate on what is a true press and what is not.

The Strength Standard chart numbers for elite are too low for what can be considered elite in the strength world. I used to follow the chart a few years ago when I got more serious about weightlifting. Eventually my numbers were beyond elite but my numbers were still to low compared to powerlifters and olympians. It was an awesome goal to achieve elite on the SS chart but I wasn't truly elite in any of the lifts.

 

[reilo]

Too much work, not enough time for the gym has left me extremely stressed.

Hopefully I can find to work out tomorrow.

 

[MjFrancis]

Muscle-Ups: The Ultimate Upper Body Exercise by Al Kavadlo

On a long enough timeline, every fitness blogger who allows it shall be a T-Nation contributor.

 

[Cooter]

Muscle-Ups: The Ultimate Upper Body Exercise by Al Kavadlo

On a long enough timeline, every fitness blogger who allows it shall be a T-Nation contributor.

How much leg swing is allowed because I try and eliminate any.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

The sport of (big P) Power Lifting consists of three exercises: the parallel back squat, the bench press, and the deadlift. It is scored by totaling all the successful lifts performed during a meet. There are different totals for each body weight class that serve as rankings and Elite is the top ranking. The total for elite differs based on the powerlifting federation rules and the weight class.

The overhead press and military press are good (little p) power lifts in that they are great compound lifts but they aren't competition lifts in the sport of Power Lifting.

Yeah, we covered that much.

I just didn't know that press wasn't a "power" lift.

Yea the Hepburn vid is a terrible example my bad, the one you linked is a good explanation on a strict press. The press isn't a comp lift anymore because of the debate on what is a true press and what is not.

The Strength Standard chart numbers for elite are too low for what can be considered elite in the strength world. I used to follow the chart a few years ago when I got more serious about weightlifting. Eventually my numbers were beyond elite but my numbers were still to low compared to powerlifters and olympians. It was an awesome goal to achieve elite on the SS chart but I wasn't truly elite in any of the lifts.

Interesting on why the press isn't a powerlift, confusion is a bitch, lol.

Isn't press still done as an Olympic lift? Or was it done away with there too? Or am I misunderstanding "Olympic lift" and it means something else. I know I've seen videos referring to press as an "Olympic lift." At least I'm pretty sure.

You said your lifts are beyond "elite" on that chart. Mind posting your stats? You've piqued my interest.

As for the chart, yeah, I get that. Like I said, I don't care what it's called. I just want my lifts to get there. I think the biggest issue if that I'm reading it as an "everyone" chart. Because it deals with everyone. The chart you're going off of is for competitive lifters.

I'm pretty sure if you take it like that it's a good guideline, and like you did when you "moved up" you switched to a "higher" standard. You're not judging yourself based on the general public, you're judging yourself based on competitive power lifters.

I'm not there yet, give me time!

 

[Dark Stalkers]

The clean & press hasn't been in the olympics since the 70's.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

The clean & press hasn't been in the olympics since the 70's.

I don't watch the Olympics. I'm a geek/nerd.

Edit: God damn I stayed up too late playing Deus Ex. Time for some sleep

 

[Dash27]

The sport of (big P) Power Lifting consists of three exercises: the parallel back squat, the bench press, and the deadlift. It is scored by totaling all the successful lifts performed during a meet. There are different totals for each body weight class that serve as rankings and Elite is the top ranking. The total for elite differs based on the powerlifting federation rules and the weight class.

The overhead press and military press are good (little p) power lifts in that they are great compound lifts but they aren't competition lifts in the sport of Power Lifting.

Anyone have a good link that shows an average power lifting meet results? I'm curious as to where I'd stand in my weight group. I weigh about 195 now. I'm sure my bench is sub par but my squat and DL should be respectable.

 

[entremet]

The clean & press hasn't been in the olympics since the 70's.

Olympic lifting, which includes the technical lifts like jerks are not in the same category as power lifting, which is strictly, back squat, bench press, and dead lift. I could be wrong. But that's how it's been explained to me.

Is that true?

 

[Dark Stalkers]

Olympic lifting, which includes the technical lifts like jerks are not in the same category as power lifting, which is strictly, back squat, bench press, and dead lift. I could be wrong. But that's how it's been explained to me.

Is that true?

That's right, the competition lifts are the snatch and clean & jerk. The weight classes can be found here and the powerlifting classes are on that strength standards chart hat gets posted here.

 

[Draft]

Rippetoe disowned that strength standard chart. It's not in the latest version of SS.

Also, the press is supposed to be way different in that version. Dead stop at the bottom, lots of hip action. It sounds like a push press rather than a press. I haven't read the 3rd edition yet, though, so that's all second hand.

 

[Bealost]

Konstantinovs just uploaded video of his first post-injury meet. If you want to see a big ass dude lift some heavy ass weight it's worth a watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hO9k_TXtGA&t=0m24s

That last deadlift is incredible. His "pump" at the end where hes yelling to the crowd and the maniacal laugh of the guy at the camera. Got me pumped.

Also 2115lb total raw, sickening!

 

[parrotbeak]

Do you have a source for that? Because I did "military press" in the "military" and it was just a regular dumbbell overhead press.

Everywhere I've seen military press and OHP interchangeable, if that's wrong, I would like to know. It's always good to learn something new.

Dunno if someone already said it but SS says military press is strictest form with hips kept straight and optionally feet together. It's basically the press with hips restricted. Description of the term is same in both 2nd and 3rd ed.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Dunno if someone already said it but SS says military press is strictest form with hips kept straight and optionally feet together. It's basically the press with hips restricted. Description of the term is same in both 2nd and 3rd ed.

So rippetoe actually differentiates between the two?

That's good enough for me! Thanks bud!

Kind of odd that just "not moving the hips" changes the name of the exercise. Plus you don't see that anywhere online (at least where I looked). Not that that's surprising since people are labeling their pushpress videos as OHP, or press.

Rippetoe disowned that strength standard chart. It's not in the latest version of SS.

Also, the press is supposed to be way different in that version. Dead stop at the bottom, lots of hip action. It sounds like a push press rather than a press. I haven't read the 3rd edition yet, though, so that's all second hand.

Sounds like the video I posted. I could be misunderstanding though. In all of his press videos he talks bout using your hips but not your knees. He even makes the differentiation between pushpress and press.

Like you though, I haven't seen the third edition (hell, I've not seen any of them, I'm imply going off of his videos).

 

[Mr.City]

Rippetoe disowned that strength standard chart. It's not in the latest version of SS.

Also, the press is supposed to be way different in that version. Dead stop at the bottom, lots of hip action. It sounds like a push press rather than a press. I haven't read the 3rd edition yet, though, so that's all second hand.

What exactly are you pushing with? Your hips?

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

What exactly are you pushing with? Your hips?

To me it sounds like it's just what he's had in his videos. Just a slight rock back at the hips then a jerk forward at the hips for leverage/momentum. It's a pretty limited range of motion that assists at higher weight to get under the bar, but I'm just spitballing.

 

[Dash27]

Rippetoe disowned that strength standard chart. It's not in the latest version of SS.

Didnt know that, any source for it? I'm curious why he ditched it and if he has a new one. I've been using that for setting goals.

 

[parrotbeak]

Ya, he differentiates between military and strict OHP. The strict press is how he shows it in SS and his videos. Military is even stricter.

The intro to press is mostly the same in 3rd, but he added an explanation of the shoulder anatomy during the press to defend against people saying the press can hurt the shoulder. Looks like the description of the exercise itself has been substantially rewritten, but I didn't read it yet.

Mj, he says that thumbless grip should never be used, not because of danger, but because gripping the bar with the thumb allows the forearm muscles to be tighter and thus work harder.

 

[MrToughPants]

You said your lifts are beyond "elite" on that chart. Mind posting your stats? You've piqued my interest.

As for the chart, yeah, I get that. Like I said, I don't care what it's called. I just want my lifts to get there. I think the biggest issue if that I'm reading it as an "everyone" chart. Because it deals with everyone. The chart you're going off of is for competitive lifters.

I'm pretty sure if you take it like that it's a good guideline, and like you did when you "moved up" you switched to a "higher" standard. You're not judging yourself based on the general public, you're judging yourself based on competitive power lifters.

I'm not there yet, give me time!

My raw max lifts when I was 165-169 were 365/450/535 and I remember pulling 550 but I was probably in the 170s at the time. Right now @195-200lbs i'm weaker than I was when I weighed 165lbs...Didn't deadlift for about a year and went easy on squats because of an SI joint problem, I fucked my back shoveling snow improperly..

Yea it's a good guideline for when you're starting out or a regular gym goer and the elite table could be more of advanced stage but probably not considered elite in the strength sports. You're already at elite on that chart for bp and will maybe be knocking on the door for 500 raw at this pace. Staying healthy and consistent is key. Once injuries come into play it fucking sucks and it's hard to get motivated again.

 

[Mr.City]

He might have ditched it for a few reasons. He broke ties with Kilgore, who made the chart, I believe. Also, too many people were going, "WELP, MY SQUAT IS THIS SO I MUST BE AN INTERMEDIATE NOW." That's not how it works. I got pretty close to an advanced squat on SS. The chart is just a collection of averages, the bare minimum if you will. Think of those stats as like C+ lifts. If your lifts aren't at least there, then it's time to reexamine something.

An updated chart is also in the back of FIT, a book written by Kilgore, the other author of SS and PPST, and Lascek, author of the 70s Big site. I don't know about you guys, but I love reading books like that.

Edit: You guys and your big lifts make me jealous. I've been training for over 2 years (with some periods of being hopelessly lost), and the best advice I can give is this

1. If you're worried about your weight/body fat, lose the fat first. I've tried many times, many ways to get the best of both worlds, only to spin my wheels. The eating issues that are being banished from childhood didn't exactly help either.

2. Learn to programming/proper form. My deadlift sucks. Part of it is due to me rounding my upper back when I belt up, but another part is also due to me not being able to program it the right way. I kept grinding a heavy set of 5 every week with 10 lbs jump because "I thought I should lift more/ progress faster." When it came time to switch to TM or something more advanced, it was a train wreck.

Under eating and crappy programming messed me up. I thought I had thyroid problems and low T. I felt tired, light headed, and fatigued all the time. Learn from my mistakes.

 

[X-Frame]

He might have ditched it for a few reasons. He broke ties with Kilgore, who made the chart, I believe. Also, too many people were going, "WELP, MY SQUAT IS THIS SO I MUST BE AN INTERMEDIATE NOW." That's not how it works. I got pretty close to an advanced squat on SS. The chart is just a collection of averages, the bare minimum if you will. Think of those stats as like C+ lifts. If your lifts aren't at least there, then it's time to reexamine something.

An updated chart is also in the back of FIT, a book written by Kilgore, the other author of SS and PPST, and Lascek, author of the 70s Big site. I don't know about you guys, but I love reading books like that.

What do you think of FIT?

What kind of audience is it intended for? The beginner, intermediate, .. ?

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

My raw max lifts when I was 165-169 were 365/450/535 and I remember pulling 550 but I was probably in the 170s at the time. Right now @195-200lbs i'm weaker than I was when I weighed 165lbs...Didn't deadlift for about a year and went easy on squats because of an SI joint problem, I fucked my back shoveling snow improperly..

Yea it's a good guideline for when you're starting out or a regular gym goer and the elite table could be more of advanced stage but probably not considered elite in the strength sports. You're already at elite on that chart for bp and will maybe be knocking on the door for 500 raw at this pace. Staying healthy and consistent is key. Once injuries come into play it fucking sucks and it's hard to get motivated again.

Nah, I'm below elite for BP on the chart. My last 1rm was 350. I'm aiming for 400, but I'm more realistically around 380. I'm going for 340 3x3 tomorrow. (Elite for me on that chart is 395) I'm probably right at/near my "elite" for press. I think I'll be at 500 for DL in about 2-3 weeks to be honest at the rate I'm improving, but I'm not going to push it.

My squats are no where close to elite, there's some major work I need to hash out in my head to get back in the game on those because of the injury I got doing them (like you touched on at the end of your post).

Fucking awesome numbers by the way, you were/are beast.

Ya, he differentiates between military and strict OHP. The strict press is how he shows it in SS and his videos. Military is even stricter.

The intro to press is mostly the same in 3rd, but he added an explanation of the shoulder anatomy during the press to defend against people saying the press can hurt the shoulder. Looks like the description of the exercise itself has been substantially rewritten, but I didn't read it yet.

Mj, he says that thumbless grip should never be used, not because of danger, but because gripping the bar with the thumb allows the forearm muscles to be tighter and thus work harder.

Wow, awesome. Thanks bud. Learning new shit every day.

 

[Mr.City]

What do you think of FIT?

What kind of audience is it intended for? The beginner, intermediate, .. ?

It's great for both. To expand it further, it's great for people who want to know more about fitness. They classify fitness as being composed of Strength, Endurance, and Mobility. They gave the hows, whys, and how to program each one. They even have exercises and stretches listed in the back.

 

[Draft]

Here's the new press stuff, or at least some of it:

http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/ssbbt3_learning_to_press

Pause at bottom, swing hips forward at the start. Weird.

Didnt know that, any source for it? I'm curious why he ditched it and if he has a new one. I've been using that for setting goals.

Searching his forum is a nightmare. I can't find the thread where he explains directly why they were removed, but I found this reference to their removal:

http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showthread.php?t=24782&page=1

There is no new chart. It seems Rippetoe got sick of people bugging him about whether they should switch to TM once they hit intermediate numbers. I think he decided that the numbers did more harm than good since everyone's physiology is so different.

The chart's not garbage, but it's also not gospel.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Here's the new press stuff, or at least some of it:

http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/ssbbt3_learning_to_press

Pause at bottom, swing hips forward at the start. Weird.

Searching his forum is a nightmare. I can't find the thread where he explains directly why they were removed, but I found this reference to their removal:

http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showthread.php?t=24782&page=1

There is no new chart. It seems Rippetoe got sick of people bugging him about whether they should switch to TM once they hit intermediate numbers. I think he decided that the numbers did more harm than good since everyone's physiology is so different.

The chart's not garbage, but it's also not gospel.

What's TM?

Also, I still think that "swing hips at the beginning" sounds like what he shows in his videos. I know you guys have seen them too, you think that may be the case or do you think he's putting more emphasis on throwing the hips?

 

[Draft]

What's TM?

Also, I still think that "swing hips at the beginning" sounds like what he shows in his videos. I know you guys have seen them too, you think that may be the case or do you think he's putting more emphasis on throwing the hips?

Texas method.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Texas method.

Had to google it. I see now, it seems to be a more advanced routine.

Thanks!