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[HarryHengst]

I have the urge to do every exercise with every workout (doing beginner program in OP). I get done with my 4 exercises or whatever and I feel like I didn't get much of a workout compared to my old routine of going to exhaustion with every single set. It's super nice not being sore for 5-7 days though. But I find myself sneaking in a set or two of exercises I shouldn't be doing on that day, just cause I don't really feel that overall spent.

Really bad idea? Time spent at the gym isn't an issue for me.

Just stick to the program. Once you are an intermediate you can add more stuff. Also, what entrement says, the goal isnt to destroy your body every time you go to the gym.

 

[Timedog]

Go heavier. Remember you don't necessary want to totally exhaust yourself. Doing so is catabolic. Plus you don't want super long sessions. Those are detrimental to muscle growth and recovery.

I don't know how to go heavier. OP doesn't really explain how to calculate what weight you should be doing in each set. All I know is that I should be doing 5 reps on the first couple of sets, not to failure (no specifics on what weight these sets should be at), and then on the last set going to failure or near failure at the heaviest weight for 5 reps.

Should the first two sets be at some specific % of what I can do on my heavy set?

Here's an example of some sets I did last night on a few exercises:

Bench--

135x5
155x5
185x8 (should have gone heavier but I haven't calibrated what I can do for 5 reps yet)

Deadlift--

135x5
185x5
225x5 (maybe could have gotten another rep, but this one actually felt okay at this weight x 5. Might try 235 next week?)

Are the first two sets in for those exercises too light? Is there some calculation or something I'm supposed to be doing for what weights to use? I have no idea. If I went heavier I feel like I'd have to rest more between sets, which is fine. What's the recommended rest period?

 

[JB1981]

Your work set weight is 3 sets of 5 reps. For example if you are squatting 225lb you'd do this:

Weight/Sets/Reps
45x5x3
135x5x1
185x3x1
195x1 (this is my preference)
225x5x3

Next workout work set should be 235x5x3. Continue to make 10lb jumps until shut gets heavy and then drop to 5lb jumps and then even less when shit gets really heavy and then you should think of doing Texas Method

 

[Timedog]

Your work set weight is 3 sets of 5 reps. For example if you are squatting 225lb you'd do this:

45x5x3
135x5x1
185x3x1
195x1 (this is my preference)
225x5x3

I don't know what any of this means. "work set weight"? I see, I think, 9 sets there?

Also this doesn't really give me clarification on how I should be choosing my weights/rest times/etc.

 

[Petrie]

I don't know what any of this means. "work set weight"? I see, I think, 9 sets there?

Also this doesn't really give me clarification on how I should be choosing my weights/rest times/etc.

You aren't feeling it because you arent doing enough. On the beginner program, if your doing say 180 for your bench, that means you are doing 3 sets of 5 reps at 180 lbs. Those much lighter sets you're doing as a warm up don't count.

Im not sure what that jumble of stuff he posted above is, as it looks like far too much volume to me. The beginner program certainly doesn't want you doing 9 sets.

 

[entremet]

I don't know what any of this means. "work set weight"? I see, I think, 9 sets there?

Also this doesn't really give me clarification on how I should be choosing my weights/rest times/etc.

Your work sets, which are listed in the OP are the same weight across. You only add weight in the next work out.

So if you did 185x3x5 bench, you will add 5 pounds next time you bench. It should then be 190x3x5. Progression is linear.

Same with the other lifts. Only in the advanced/intermediate programs, like a 5/3/1 or Mad Cow that you add weight to work sets. As Petrie said, once you increase your weight across your work sets, it should be more challenging for you.

 

[Timedog]

You aren't feeling it because you arent doing enough. On the beginner program, if your doing say 180 for your bench, that means you are doing 3 sets of 5 reps at 180 lbs. Those much lighter sets you're doing as a warm up don't count.

Im not sure what that jumble of stuff he posted above is, as it looks like far too much volume to me. The beginner program certainly doesn't want you doing 9 sets.

Ohhhhh, I see. Now I'm gonna have to recalibrate all my weights even further . For instance on my last set of Deadlifts, I did 5 reps, if I had done all 3 sets at that weight, no way I could have still done 5 on the 3rd set. Oh, well.

Also, any advice on rest time? And how would I ever calculate 1RM using this system?

 

[entremet]

Ohhhhh, I see. Now I'm gonna have to recalibrate all my weights even further . For instance on my last set of Deadlifts, I did 5 reps, if I had done all 3 sets at that weight, no way I could have still done 5 on the 3rd set. Oh, well.

Also, any advice on rest time? And how would I ever calculate 1RM using this system?

I find 1rms useless unless you're into powelifting or doing the more advanced programs. I keep rest between stuff like squats and deadlifts 2 to 3 as they are more taxing. The upper body lifts 1-2 minutes.

There are calculators online, but many more experienced lifters here are critical of them.

Here's one. Just add the weight, set and rep numbers.

http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/OneRepMax.html

 

[HarryHengst]

Ohhhhh, I see. Now I'm gonna have to recalibrate all my weights even further . For instance on my last set of Deadlifts, I did 5 reps, if I had done all 3 sets at that weight, no way I could have still done 5 on the 3rd set. Oh, well.

Also, any advice on rest time? And how would I ever calculate 1RM using this system?

Just start lifting at something you can do all the sets comfortably and increase the weight from there every time. You notice you are reaching your max once you start struggling with the weights. After that be sensible and, in my opinion, dont increase the weight until you can do all reps with good form. Never sacrifice form for weight, even if the program is designed around increasing every week.

Rest time is however long you need to do the next set correctly. I dont think it really matters whether you rest 1 minute or 3 minutes. Once again, its better to take a bit more rest between sets than sacrifice form and risk injuries.

Also, dont worry if you have to lower weights now. Its a marathon, not a race. I started squatting at something like 60 pounds, and shot up to 180 pounds within 3 months.

 

[JB1981]

You aren't feeling it because you arent doing enough. On the beginner program, if your doing say 180 for your bench, that means you are doing 3 sets of 5 reps at 180 lbs. Those much lighter sets you're doing as a warm up don't count.

Im not sure what that jumble of stuff he posted above is, as it looks like far too much volume to me. The beginner program certainly doesn't want you doing 9 sets.

Then you aren't familiar with the program, Petrie. The program has you warm up adequately before your work set weight. If you think what I wrote is a "jumble" you simply are not familiar with the program and obviously have not read SS

 

[JB1981]

Ohhhhh, I see. Now I'm gonna have to recalibrate all my weights even further . For instance on my last set of Deadlifts, I did 5 reps, if I had done all 3 sets at that weight, no way I could have still done 5 on the 3rd set. Oh, well.

Also, any advice on rest time? And how would I ever calculate 1RM using this system?

Deadlifts are not done 3 sets across. It is one set of 5. Get the book

 

[entremet]

Deadlifts are not done 3 sets across. It is one set of 5. Get the book

It's also in the OP.

 

[JB1981]

I don't know what any of this means. "work set weight"? I see, I think, 9 sets there?

Also this doesn't really give me clarification on how I should be choosing my weights/rest times/etc.

What is your training history? If you are a beginner start with 135x5x3 and see how it feels

 

[Timedog]

I find 1rms useless unless you're into powelifting or doing the more advanced programs. I keep rest between stuff like squats and deadlifts 2 to 3 as they are more taxing. The upper body lifts 1-2 minutes.

There are calculators online, but many more experienced lifters here are critical of them.

Here's one. Just add the weight, set and rep numbers.

http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/OneRepMax.html

The problem with that calculator is that with the program I'm on, I don't know how many reps I could do at any given weight. Above, I did 225 for deadlift on my 3rd set. If I had been doing 225 for all three sets, I wouldn't have gotten 5 reps on my last set. I'll have to do a lighter weight in order to get 5 reps on my last set, because now on my first 3 sets, I'll be at a high enough weight that it'll tire my muscles more, decreasing my potential on the last set.

So next week lets hypothetically say I try like 210 or something for all 3 sets. On the 3rd set I get 5 reps and it's to near exhaustion. Even though I could technically do more weight for 5 reps (225). I never know how many reps I could actually do at a given weight when not tired, so the calculator breaks down.

Not that those calculators are anything integral, but it's fun to have an estimate of how much you can do without the increased risk of injury/necessary spotter/interruption of normal workout routine needed for 1RM attempts.

Deadlifts are not done 3 sets across. It is one set of 5. Get the book

Ah, you are right. I will fix that next time. That's besides the point I was making though.

 

[entremet]

The problem with that calculator is that with the program I'm on, I don't know how many reps I could do at any given weight. Above, I did 225 for deadlift on my 3rd set. If I had been doing 225 for all three sets, I wouldn't have gotten 5 reps on my last set. I'll have to do a lighter weight in order to get 5 reps on my last set, because now on my first 3 sets, I'll be at a high enough weight that it'll tire my muscles more, decreasing my potential on the last set.

So next week lets hypothetically say I try like 210 or something for all 3 sets. On the 3rd set I get 5 reps and it's to near exhaustion. Even though I could technically do more weight for 5 reps (225). I never know how many reps I could actually do at a given weight when not tired, so the calculator breaks down.

Not that those calculators are anything integral, but it's fun to have an estimate of how much you can do without the increased risk of injury/necessary spotter/interruption of normal workout routine needed for 1RM attempts.



Ah, you are right. I will fix that next time. That's besides the point I was making though.

I think you're focusing too much on the numbers, Timedog. Once you start progressing on the program as prescribed you will hit a wall and from there you can then start calculating 1rms with greater precision.

Remember you always want one or two reps in the tank with the big lifts. If you start going to failure on them, you'll start to get sloppy on your form, which can increase potential injury and build bad habits.

To clarify what JB is saying, below are warmup sets for one set of deadlifts for five reps. The workset is the actual set listed in the OP. All the set before are warmup sets. The first two are done with an empty bar, with deadlifts there is an exception since you need the bar to above the ground at a decent height. You can use plates, placed horizontially to add height if you need to start at a lower weight.

So the first two sets are with two 45s, with the other lifts you can use an empty bar. You then do 5 reps at 40 percent of your 5rm workset, 3 reps at 60 percent of your 5rm workset, and 2 reps at 80 percent of your 5rm workset. Then you will start at 3 sets of your 5rm, with the same weight across.

135 x 5 x 2
185 x 5 x 1
225 x 3 x 1
275 x 2 x 1
315 x 5 x 1 <--Work Set

 

[deadbeef]

Timedog just take a day, work up to the heaviest set of 5 you can accomplish and then back off a bit and use that as your starting point.

Monday do squats for example
135x5 check
175x5 check
195x5 check
...
255x5 couldn't do anything else
Then the next week start at like 245

Wednesday test bench
Friday test deadlift

 

[Timedog]

I think you're focusing too much on the numbers, Timedog. Once you start progressing on the program as prescribed you will hit a wall and from there you can then start calculating 1rms with greater precision.

Remember you always want one or two reps in the tank with the big lifts. If you start going to failure on them, you'll start to get sloppy on your form, which can increase potential injury and build bad habits.

I apologize for saying it's fun to have an estimate of 1RM.

 

[Petrie]

Then you aren't familiar with the program, Petrie. The program has you warm up adequately before your work set weight. If you think what I wrote is a "jumble" you simply are not familiar with the program and obviously have not read SS

I have the book in both physical and ebook format, and don't recall reading a mess of warmups like that anywhere in it. Given that most of the thread talks about spending 45 minutes or so in the gym on SS and your post would take way over that when doing 3-5 lifts, I'll say you're off.

 

[deadbeef]

Actually now that I think about it you might not need to back off because you'll be mildly tired so it won't be a true 5rm

 

[JB1981]

I have the book in both physical and ebook format, and don't recall reading a mess of warmups like that anywhere in it. Given that most of the thread talks about spending 45 minutes or so in the gym on SS and your post would take way over that when doing 3-5 lifts, I'll say you're off.

Go to the programming section. How is it a "mess." How do you recommend someone work up to a work set of 225? Warm ups are built into the program to prepare you for the work set weight, particularly squats which are always the first lift. Check out the Wunsler log near the back of the book

 

[JB1981]

It takes 5 min, not even, to get thru warm ups dude

Entrement gets it

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

Timedog: you are free to do whatever you want. You don't have to listen to what anyone says on here. But please, stop asking for advice then argue against what is said to you. That shits fucking tiring and a waste of everyone's time.

 

[entremet]

I have the book in both physical and ebook format, and don't recall reading a mess of warmups like that anywhere in it. Given that most of the thread talks about spending 45 minutes or so in the gym on SS and your post would take way over that when doing 3-5 lifts, I'll say you're off.

It's in the wiki as well.

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program

45 x 5 x 2
95 x 5 x 1
135 x 3 x 1
185 x 2 x 1
225 x 5 x 3 <--Work Sets

I think JB made some typos in his post though. The first two warmup sets are 45x5x2 not 45x5x3. He also alters the last warmup set to one rep.

I apologize for saying it's fun to have an estimate of 1RM.

Have at it. Do what Deadbeef suggested then, to get a better measure of your strength. I just don't care for them at this stage of my training. When I start doing 5/3/1, I'll have to.

 

[Timedog]

Timedog: you are free to do whatever you want. You don't have to listen to what anyone says on here. But please, stop asking for advice then argue against what is said to you. That shits fucking tiring and a waste of everyone's time.

Please point out where this happened.

 

[JB1981]

I personally do 3 with empty bar because it takes me long to get warm, can't see it hurting

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

Please point out where this happened.

It will have to wait until I'm back on my pc so I can search.

 

[entremet]

I personally do 3 with empty bar because it takes me long to get warm, can't see it hurting

Maybe that's what threw Petrie off? I don't know.

 

[Petrie]

It's in the wiki as well.

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program

45 x 5 x 2
95 x 5 x 1
135 x 3 x 1
185 x 2 x 1
225 x 5 x 3 <--Work Sets

I think JB made some typos in his post though. The first two warmup sets are 45x5x2 not 45x5x3. He also alters the last warmup set to one rep.


Have at it. Do what Deadbeef suggested then, to get a better measure of your strength. I just don't care for them at this stage of my training. When I start doing 5/3/1, I'll have to.

Fair enough then. Personally I will end up bored doing that many sets at such light weight to warm up. I definitely work up to my work sets, but 6 warm up sets seems a bit much. The changes he made definitely threw me off though.

 

[Timedog]

It will have to wait until I'm back on my pc so I can search.

I'm talking about on this page. I'm assuming your post was relevant to the discussion we're having right now.

 

[entremet]

Fair enough then. Personally I will end up bored doing that many sets at such light weight to warm up. I definitely work up to my work sets, but 6 warm up sets seems a bit much.

The first two sets are empty bar, so I it doesn't feel like that much. It's really 3 sets of warmups. I used to ignore the empty bar warmups, but they help with my flexibility. Plus I rip through them, since they're warm up sets and don't require crazy rest periods.

 

[JB1981]

Fair enough then. Personally I will end up bored doing that many sets at such light weight to warm up. I definitely work up to my work sets, but 6 warm up sets seems a bit much.

I find it to be a good way to get physically and mentally prepared whilst focusing on form and helping to prevent injury long term

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Fair enough then. Personally I will end up bored doing that many sets at such light weight to warm up. I definitely work up to my work sets, but 6 warm up sets seems a bit much. The changes he made definitely threw me off though.

I personally do around 3 or 4 warm up sets depending on how my body feels, I don't think I've done more than 4 though. I can't see doing 6 TBH, at that point I feel you may be doing too much warm up, but that's just me.

I definitely always do 3 though.

Warmups should be a percentage of your work weight. That will ensure you're good to go. If you're doing too much warm up, you're probably limiting your ability during your work load.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

Fair enough then. Personally I will end up bored doing that many sets at such light weight to warm up. I definitely work up to my work sets, but 6 warm up sets seems a bit much.

What's your working weight? The higher you get the more you usually do.

Doing 135? Warm up with 45, 85, 115

Doing 405? 135, 185, 225, 275, 315, 365. With only doing 2 or 1 reps at the end

If you're not warming up properly you are really limiting your strength. Obviously everyone is different but not warming up properly can also lead to injuries.

 

[Petrie]

What's your working weight? The higher you get the more you usually do.

Doing 135? Warm up with 45, 85, 115

Doing 405? 135, 185, 225, 275, 315, 365. With only doing 2 or 1 reps at the end

If you're not warming up properly you are really limiting your strength. Obviously everyone is different but not warming up properly can also lead to injuries.

I could see that once you're doing 405, but are people in this thread on SS really squatting 405? Im trying to tailor my advice to the level people are actually at, and I don't feel too many beginners on SS are at such a level, or they'd likely be on a new program by now.

 

[entremet]

I personally do around 3 or 4 warm up sets depending on how my body feels, I don't think I've done more than 4 though. I can't see doing 6 TBH, at that point I feel you may be doing too much warm up, but that's just me.

I definitely always do 3 though.

Warmups should be a percentage of your work weight. That will ensure you're good to go. If you're doing too much warm up, you're probably limiting your ability during your work load.

All of the stuff in SS about warmups is percentage based. Empty bar for two sets and then three sets of 40/60/80 percent of your work weight.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

I could see that once you're doing 405, but are people in this thread on SS really squatting 405? Im trying to tailor my advice to the level people are actually at, and I don't feel too many beginners on SS are at such a level, or they'd likely be on a new program by now.

Even at 405 as a working set you wouldn't warm up with "more sets," you would warm up based on your work weight. Throwing in 6+ work sets will only ensure that when it comes time to actually get to your lifting that you're already working on depleted energy.

All of the stuff in SS about warmups is percentage based. Empty bar for two sets and then three sets of 40/60/80 percent of your work weight.

Yeah, I'm just making sure people aren't fucking going crazy. Bar warmups don't really count as they are basically body weight stretching.

When I do bar warm ups I don't even count those in my "warm up" segment, I just do them in conjunction with my stretching.

 

[JB1981]

I could see that once you're doing 405, but are people in this thread on SS really squatting 405? Im trying to tailor my advice to the level people are actually at, and I don't feel too many beginners on SS are at such a level, or they'd likely be on a new program by now.

Even if they are beginning with 135 they need to program warm ups.

Weight/Reps/Sets
45x5x2
75x5x1
95x3x1
105x2x1
135x5x3

 

[JB1981]

double post

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

I could see that once you're doing 405, but are people in this thread on SS really squatting 405? Im trying to tailor my advice to the level people are actually at, and I don't feel too many beginners on SS are at such a level, or they'd likely be on a new program by now.

Then I'd say that a higher number of warm up sets are even more important because they need to practice technique.

Alienshogun is wrong, you won't get tired from lifting 135lbs and doing heavier warm ups at low reps. If you get tired from warming up properly you have other problems.

 

[Petrie]

Even if they are beginning with 135 they need to program warm ups.

Weight/Reps/Sets
45x5x2
75x5x1
95x3x1
105x2x1
135x5x3

Even this doesn't have the 6 warm up sets, but that's fine. We all agree we need to warm up. No need to derail the entire thread over it. I apologize if I misread anything above, what I saw simply looked like a ton of volume. Its all good.

 

[JB1981]

Even this doesn't have the 6 warm up sets, but that's fine. We all agree we need to warm up. No need to derail the entire thread over it. I apologize if I misread anything above, what I saw simply looked like a ton of volume. Its all good.

didn't think it was a derail since Timedog still doesn't know what a work set is.

he has some reading to do

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Even this doesn't have the 6 warm up sets, but that's fine. We all agree we need to warm up. No need to derail the entire thread over it. I apologize if I misread anything above, what I saw simply looked like a ton of volume. Its all good.

See I look at that and I see 4 warm up sets, but that's just me.

The most important thing is to ensure your body is ready for the weight without over expending yourself.

Here's a quote from 5/3/1

How to Warm-up Warming up prior to training is important. I usually recommend the following:
&#8226; 1x5 @ 40%
&#8226; 1x5 @ 50%
&#8226; 1x3 @ 60%
&#8226; Work sets
The purpose of a warm-up is to prepare yourself for a great day of work sets &#8211; not an average one. You really shouldn&#8217;t need too many warm-up sets to prepare yourself for your work sets. For a more detailed full body warm-up, see the &#8220;Moving North of Vag&#8221; section later in this book

And those are with heavy weight. More is not always better.

 

[Mr.City]

I don't believe in warm ups. I have a bar and a stand next to my bed, and I wake up every hour to do a heavy single.

But in reality, warm ups are something you should get into the habit of doing. Real warm ups. I remember when Combine used to post in here, and he thought warming up meant doing curls. Then he wondered why his groin hurt when he did squats for the first time. Don't be that guy.

 

[Timedog]

What's an approximate for amount of rest time between warm up sets? And is there extra rest time between your last warm up set and your first work set?

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

What's an approximate for amount of rest time between warm up sets? And is there extra rest time between your last warm up set and your first work set?

Only the amount of time it takes to put the weight on the bar. And you can wait a minute before your work sets, you really shouldn't be tired.

 

[JB1981]

What's an approximate for amount of rest time between warm up sets? And is there extra rest time between your last warm up set and your first work set?

You can usually feel it out, but rule of thumb is, you take as much time as you need between work weight sets in order to get all reps on all sets.

You shouldn't rest between warm ups. Change the plates and go, basically.

 

[Timedog]

Only the amount of time it takes to put the weight on the bar. And you can wait a minute before your work sets, you really shouldn't be tired.

You can usually feel it out, but rule of thumb is, you take as much time as you need between work weight sets in order to get all reps on all sets.

You shouldn't rest between warm ups. Change the plates and go, basically.

Sweet, thanks.

 

[Petrie]

didn't think it was a derail since Timedog still doesn't know what a work set is.

he has some reading to do

As long as people don't feel its a derail, awesome. I just don't want to be "that guy".

 

[deadbeef]

How can you derail a fitness thread by talking about fitness? Lol

 

[Mr.City]

What's an approximate for amount of rest time between warm up sets? And is there extra rest time between your last warm up set and your first work set?

278 seconds

But really, it's highly dependent on the lift and the weight. Towards the end of SS, I was taking up to 10 minutes to rest up, but I can usually bench again after a few minutes.