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Fitness |OT3| BroScience, Protein Dysentery, XXL Calf Implants, and Squat Rack Hogs

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Question about squats (low-bar) and grip. As some of you may know I've complained about my wrists/hands when doing squats. Some days it's okay, other days I just can't do it. I don't know if it's a flexibility issue or what.

Yesterday I did my highest weight yet on squats (180, 5x5) and for the most part was fine aside from a bit of discomfort in my wrists that lasted for a couple minutes after I was done. It seems what works best for me is having a kind of wide grip, and resting my hands on the bar in such a way that the hands themselves are at an angle (bar is at bottom of index finger through middle of pinkie finger), and I'm not really gripping the bar so much as I'm just using my hands to stabilize the bar. Is there any problem with doing it this way?

I don't really get what you're trying to describe visually, but stabilizing the bar is all your hands are really supposed to do when squatting- keep it level and stop it from rolling down your back. You don't wrap your thumb around the bar and you don't hold up the weight with your wrists.
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
I don't really get what you're trying to describe visually, but stabilizing the bar is all your hands are really supposed to do when squatting- keep it level and stop it from rolling down your back. You don't wrap your thumb around the bar and you don't hold up the weight with your wrists.

My hands are resting on top of the bar. I'm not really gripping it much, if at all. I'm not wrapping my thumb around it either.
 

Ashhong

Member
My hands are resting on top of the bar. I'm not really gripping it much, if at all. I'm not wrapping my thumb around it either.

On top? I put my hands behind the bar..if not below. Sounds like you are straining your wrists if you are curving it over the bar.

edit: read your post wrong, nevermind.
 

MjFrancis

Member
I'll follow that program outlined on that site, thanks. I'm not sure what staring strength entails, but I have some idea that it involves bulking, and I don't really want to do that. If you can enlighten me to it's benefits, I'd appreciate it, but keep in mind I'm going for gradual strength increases while maintaining a fairly lean physique.
Thanks again.
You are quite welcome. I am glad you are willing to take advantage of the linked program.

Starting Strength is outlined and linked in the OP, but gradual strength increases is not the name of the game there. I don't know what your lift numbers are, but I mentioned it because if you are not an intermediate lifter you stand to benefit more from other programs than in 3x/week reverse pyramid training. The capacity of a novice lifter to recover is the key, and incremental increases in weight can be made every training day. Even weightlifters who have been lifting for months or years can potentially benefit from a novice program aimed at linear progression. Especially those stricken by fuckarounditis.

If the above reverse pyramid schedule looks fine for you, by all means stick to it (8-12 week minimum). I find it healthy to question one's own motives at every turn. It makes the final decisions all the more satisfying and all the more informed.
 
Something I learned about squats from a professional gymnast and former bodybuilder. He told me 90% of people that are squatting are not doing it correctly, that they cannot even correctly do a proper squat with no weight so they shouldn't even be using weight until they can do it with proper form and no weight first.

So I tried it with "proper" form and it was really a revelation to me. Basically just sit on a chair, cross your arms over your chest, and get up without leaning forward at all. You want your back to be parallel to the chairs back as you rise, so have someone hold their arms out in front of your chest and if you lean into their arms you are doing it wrong. It should be one movement from your legs going up from 90 degrees or a little lower, and your upper body and torso rising up on a parallel line to the back of the chair.


I tried this and it was hard as fuck. I could barely do 5 of them with proper form. A few months later I am doing 25-30 a set with a 40lb vest and I have seen more growth in my legs than when I was squatting 300+ at the gym. I cannot even imagine how hard it would be to get 280-300 up in the correct form the way you raise off the chair.

Here is a shitty pic to try to illustrate what I am trying to say, as it is kind of hard to explain with words. Maybe a video would be better, will try to add one next time. Try it out and let me know what you guys think.


squats.jpg
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
And the reason that's the only proper way to do a squat is because.... ?
 
And the reason that's the only proper way to do a squat is because.... ?

Its not the only proper way, but it is the most difficult. Try it out for yourself and see how hard it is to go straight up without leaning forward. Once that gets easy, then start adding weight. Supposedly this form is also much better for you in the long term, because you will take many more years to plateau in terms of max weight, and it will be better on your body if you exercise for many years (your lower back and knees).
 
Something I learned about squats from a professional gymnast and former bodybuilder. He told me 90% of people that are squatting are not doing it correctly, that they cannot even correctly do a proper squat with no weight so they shouldn't even be using weight until they can do it with proper form and no weight first.

So I tried it with "proper" form and it was really a revelation to me. Basically just sit on a chair, cross your arms over your chest, and get up without leaning forward at all. You want your back to be parallel to the chairs back as you rise, so have someone hold their arms out in front of your chest and if you lean into their arms you are doing it wrong. It should be one movement from your legs going up from 90 degrees or a little lower, and your upper body and torso rising up on a parallel line to the back of the chair.


I tried this and it was hard as fuck. I could barely do 5 of them with proper form. A few months later I am doing 25-30 a set with a 40lb vest and I have seen more growth in my legs than when I was squatting 300+ at the gym. I cannot even imagine how hard it would be to get 280-300 up in the correct form the way you raise off the chair.

Here is a shitty pic to try to illustrate what I am trying to say, as it is kind of hard to explain with words. Maybe a video would be better, will try to add one next time. Try it out and let me know what you guys think.


squats.jpg

Honestly, not really sure about this one.

First, if you are doing a high bar squat, your back angle will be close to vertical, but you still WILL be leaning forward. If you are doing a low bar squat, leaning is a PART of the movement--it is IMPOSSIBLE to not lean forward, and in fact, its better for your hip drive if you do.

Second...I'd like to see a video of the "proper" way, because mechanically, from your picture, it doesn't look possible. If your shins AND your back are vertical when sitting in a chair, it's impossible to stand due to your weight distribution. Do you have a video showing what you mean?

By standing straight up, you are pretty much taking all of the hip drive out. Which might be good for your legs, but it's not as powerful (hence why you can squat more with a low-bar squat vs high-bar...for most people).

Regardless, I'm wary to say that keeping your back vertical is the "proper" way to squat. I think it's just flat-out untrue unless you're front-squatting or you're doing a high-bar squat and your anthropometry allows it.
 
Honestly, not really sure about this one.

First, if you are doing a high bar squat, your back angle will be close to vertical, but you still WILL be leaning forward. If you are doing a low bar squat, leaning is a PART of the movement--it is IMPOSSIBLE to not lean forward, and in fact, its better for your hip drive if you do.

Second...I'd like to see a video of the "proper" way, because mechanically, from your picture, it doesn't look possible. If your shins AND your back are vertical when sitting in a chair, it's impossible to stand due to your weight distribution. Do you have a video showing what you mean?

By standing straight up, you are pretty much taking all of the hip drive out. Which might be good for your legs, but it's not as powerful (hence why you can squat more with a low-bar squat vs high-bar...for most people).

Regardless, I'm wary to say that keeping your back vertical is the "proper" way to squat. I think it's just flat-out untrue unless you're front-squatting or you're doing a high-bar squat and your anthropometry allows it.

This is done off a chair with no bar. If you want to add weight use a weighted vest or dumbbells. This movement is so hard you will not need any weight at all for the first few weeks/months.
 
This is done off a chair with no bar. If you want to add weight use a weighted vest or dumbbells. This movement is so hard you will not need any weight at all for the first few weeks/months.

I realize what the movement is. I'm saying if your shins and back are both vertical (perpendicular to the floor), it's impossible, unless you lean forward or scoot your feet under you more. Maybe your drawing should show more of an angle with the shins?

Regardless, just because it's more difficult doesn't make it proper. Hip drive is lost almost completely if your back is vertical when you squat.
 
I realize what the movement is. I'm saying if your shins and back are both vertical (perpendicular to the floor), it's impossible, unless you lean forward or scoot your feet under you more. Maybe your drawing should show more of an angle with the shins?

Regardless, just because it's more difficult doesn't make it proper. Hip drive is lost almost completely if your back is vertical when you squat.

Yes your feet are under you more than the drawing shows. Your feet will be a little behind your knees. Im not trying to say this guy was right and that everyone is squatting wrong, but I am sure glad he showed me this because the muscles right above my knee on the inner sides and on my thighs on top between the knee and hip have gotten huge since I started doing these kinds of squats.
 

Domino Theory

Crystal Dynamics
Question: now that I've got my Squat form down (I finally go below parallel), I'm wanting to have my Fridays focus mostly on Squats. My current Fridays are: Squats (3 sets), Lunges (3 sets), SL Deadlift (2 sets; assistance).

I want to change it so that I do 6 sets of Squats then my usual SL Deadlift. Is this okay to do?
 
Yes your feet are under you more than the drawing shows. Your feet will be a little behind your knees. Im not trying to say this guy was right and that everyone is squatting wrong, but I am sure glad he showed me this because the muscles right above my knee on the inner sides and on my thighs on top between the knee and hip have gotten huge since I started doing these kinds of squats.

Yup--squats with a more vertical back angle ultimately involve more of your quads vs your hips. Front squats/high bar squats bring this out. This is why a lot of olympic lifters (who do a ton of front squats and high bar squats) have a big "tear drop".

Paj76.jpg

7zmAB.jpg
 
I realize what the movement is. I'm saying if your shins and back are both vertical (perpendicular to the floor), it's impossible, unless you lean forward or scoot your feet under you more. Maybe your drawing should show more of an angle with the shins?

Regardless, just because it's more difficult doesn't make it proper. Hip drive is lost almost completely if your back is vertical when you squat.

I'd even argue that the fact that it's so difficult and unintuitive makes it improper. Movement isn't supposed to be hard, especially unweighted basic bodyweight movements. It's supposed to be fluid.
 

Mr.City

Member
Something I learned about squats from a professional gymnast and former bodybuilder. He told me 90% of people that are squatting are not doing it correctly, that they cannot even correctly do a proper squat with no weight so they shouldn't even be using weight until they can do it with proper form and no weight first.

So I tried it with "proper" form and it was really a revelation to me. Basically just sit on a chair, cross your arms over your chest, and get up without leaning forward at all. You want your back to be parallel to the chairs back as you rise, so have someone hold their arms out in front of your chest and if you lean into their arms you are doing it wrong. It should be one movement from your legs going up from 90 degrees or a little lower, and your upper body and torso rising up on a parallel line to the back of the chair.


I tried this and it was hard as fuck. I could barely do 5 of them with proper form. A few months later I am doing 25-30 a set with a 40lb vest and I have seen more growth in my legs than when I was squatting 300+ at the gym. I cannot even imagine how hard it would be to get 280-300 up in the correct form the way you raise off the chair.

Here is a shitty pic to try to illustrate what I am trying to say, as it is kind of hard to explain with words. Maybe a video would be better, will try to add one next time. Try it out and let me know what you guys think.


squats.jpg

You will almost never be able to do this with a heavy barbell. Never. You're intentionally keeping the weight behind the mid food, which may work okay for an unweighted, but you'll for sure dump the bar if you do this. Take it from me: I had someone dump 660 in a meet who unintentionally did this.

What exactly makes this proper form?

On a side note, I'm nearing the end of my RFL dieting cycle. I hope to be in the upper to mid 220s by the end of the month. I started doing cycle of RFL (it's a diet; not a drug) back in September 2011, and went down from 285 to about 230 ish right now. One of the problems with the diet is trying to convince people that you do not have an eating disorder or trying to die, especially with the amount of silly bullshit out there. For example, I've been told that without carbs, my body won't metabolize. I will die if I do not have a balanced diet. There is something that this is diet is not meant to be followed in the long term, but people seem to have the weirdest ideas about nutrition.
 

balddemon

Banned
Squat - 290x3x5. Easy.
Deadlift - 320x1x5. Easy, but my lower back was super tight afterwards cuz I rushed through my squats and didn't rest as long after squatting.
Bench - 170x3x5. Easy.
Wide grip pullups - 3x6. Cake.
Core work - fun
 
I had some spam and eggs today. It was amazing. I love me some spam.

Gym went well today. It totally is a different mindset when lifting for volume as opposed to strength. Still not used to the short rests but I'm moving along just fine.
 
So I was just bending down to do some light stretching before a run and a got a severe pain in my left thigh. I layed down for about 30 seconds until I could pull myself to my feet. I'm quite confident I pulled my thigh muscle, so what's the best way to get it healed back up as quickly as possible? I have road hockey on Sunday that I'd rather not miss, not to mention I want to keep my running schedule up as much as possible.
 
Ah, spam is crazy popular in Hawaii.

Now I want a teriyaki bowl.

Same in Korea. My mom gave that to me a lot when I was a kid.

I too want a teriyaki bowl. This week has been fucked up for me diet wise anyway. I might get one and then even some Taco Bell.

More weights = more dates.
 

Brolic Gaoler

formerly Alienshogun
Same in Korea. My mom gave that to me a lot when I was a kid.

I too want a teriyaki bowl. This week has been fucked up for me diet wise anyway. I might get one and then even some Taco Bell.

More weights = more dates.


Man, when I was in Washington (seattle area) I had teriyaki all the time. Love that stuff, and it was almost always good there.
 

MrOogieBoogie

BioShock Infinite is like playing some homeless guy's vivid imagination
Another injury update. Just great. :/

Made this post 11 days ago:

Hey guys, I was wondering if I have anything to worry about.

I started running almost two months ago, doing some pretty intense runs at least once a week. This past Thursday I ran four miles, stopped to workout for about an hour, and then attempted to run two more miles. However, the second I began moving I felt a sharp pain in my knee right around the kneecap. Decided to take it easy for a couple days, and so I tried running against yesterday. Same thing.

What's strange is that it doesn't hurt at all if I stretch or walk. Hell, I went on a 40 mile bike ride yesterday (after realizing I couldn't run) and was perfectly fine. No pain whatsoever. It's only when I run or apply deep pressure to the spot that it hurts (feels like a bruise). Could it just be fatigue from running so much having never really run before? I think I'll rest it for a week and see if it gets better. Can't be anything too serious, right?



Okay, fast-forward to today, and I hadn't done any running since that post. I decided I'd finally run today, though; figured I'd given my knee plenty of rest time (including icing it over a few days). Again, it doesn't hurt when I walk, squat, jump, bike, or anything.

I just jogged 5.5 miles, and it was a very easy, comfortable run. However, I could feel the pain around my knee just "sitting" there during a couple points of the run. Only when I tried sprinting would I REALLY aggravate it. I mean, the second I started lifting my knee higher and driving it further forward for greater speed the little area around my kneecap would tighten and hurt like fucking hell almost instantaneously.

So as of this very moment, I am physically unable to run at full speed. What. the fuck? All these injuries have been very humbling, if anything. I don't feel like Superman anymore, and it sucks ass. Someone give me some ray of hope here. Like I said, I can do EVERYTHING else on my knee (including jogging for 5.5 miles at a moderate pace) and not feel an INKLING of pain, but the second I try to sprint it's like someone shot me in the leg.

And all this just a month-and-a-half before my first obstacle course race. :(
 

kylej

Banned
So as of this very moment, I am physically unable to run at full speed. What. the fuck? All these injuries have been very humbling, if anything. I don't feel like Superman anymore, and it sucks ass. Someone give me some ray of hope here. Like I said, I can do EVERYTHING else on my knee (including jogging for 5.5 miles at a moderate pace) and not feel an INKLING of pain, but the second I try to sprint it's like someone shot me in the leg.

And all this just a month-and-a-half before my first obstacle course race. :(

How about you take a week off. Completely.
 

kylej

Banned
Did you not read my post? I took eleven days off from running of ANY kind. I mean, I HAVE to walk, you know. lol

Your body sounds like it's burned out and you're getting overuse injuries. Yesterday, people told you to take a complete week off, and the next day you're out sprinting on pavement. If you don't want to take a complete, total week off from any strenuous athletic activity, then the injuries will keep stacking up. Right now you've had significant rotator cuff and knee pain in just a couple days. I don't know what to tell you.
 

Chinner

Banned
Your body sounds like it's burned out and you're getting overuse injuries. Yesterday, people told you to take a complete week off, and the next day you're out sprinting on pavement. If you don't want to take a complete, total week off from any strenuous athletic activity, then the injuries will keep stacking up. Right now you've had significant rotator cuff and knee pain in just a couple days. I don't know what to tell you.

steroids
 

MrOogieBoogie

BioShock Infinite is like playing some homeless guy's vivid imagination
Your body sounds like it's burned out and you're getting overuse injuries. Yesterday, people told you to take a complete week off, and the next day you're out sprinting on pavement. If you don't want to take a complete, total week off from any strenuous athletic activity, then the injuries will keep stacking up. Right now you've had significant rotator cuff and knee pain in just a couple days. I don't know what to tell you.

I don't think they're related, man. The knee pain happened almost two weeks ago, and it's very obvious why. Decided I'd rest my legs completely for eleven days and try running again, but the pain persists. I've already adhered to everyone's advice by doing no upper body workouts or exercises the last few days, and it'll continue that way until next week--or whenever I feel like I'm completely fine. But I figured a little running wouldn't hurt. And it didn't. It's only when I tried running really, really fast that it hurt like fuck.

Somebody told me that it might be fluid in the knee, but from reading about it (knee effusion), I don't think that's it. I have no swelling at all anywhere.
 

lenovox1

Member
Should I try to seek out a sports therapist or will any doctor do?

Go to your GP first. You may have a more serious condition that requires a medical specialist. Or it might not be that serious, and you'll just get pain killers and a rest recommendation. And depending on your insurance plan, your doctor will have to write you a prescription for a physical therapist if you need one.
 

MjFrancis

Member
Man, when I was in Washington (seattle area) I had teriyaki all the time. Love that stuff, and it was almost always good there.
The best teriyaki is owned and staffed by Koreans selling bastardized Japanese and Chinese cuisine cooked by Mexicans with a majority White consumer base... at least in my experience here in the Seattle area.

I could eat it seven days a week, though I've settled for once a week on account of my funding and my health.

---

I hope things get better for you MrOogieBoogie. Take as much time as needed to heal.

---

Knee gave out at 0.6 miles into my run yesterday. How do I train for a triathlon when I can't run, haha. Sprint intervals only + normal biking/swimming, for the next month, and reevaluate what my 5k ability is after that I guess. :|
That sucks big time! How are sprints holding up for you given the problems you ran into on your run? Or have you tried sprinting since your knee gave out?
 
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