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Fitness |OT4| Squat Booty, Summer Cuts, and Super Swoletrophy

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reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
I've been bulking pretty effectively. But I gain weight very easily anyways. currently 208, I think I'm going to cut down to 185 which would have me at ~5% bodyfat. Why so low? Just a goal to shoot for, and because I can. Not sure If I should start cutting next week or in January.

I've been stuck at 186-190 for a while now (6'4). I think I got up to 193ish at one point but that was basically just overeating to get there and wasn't any particular muscular gain.

My creatine arrived today so hopefully that will help with lean muscle gain that stays on and helps me bulk that way.
 
Just a quick question for fitGAF, I've been taking protein powder (Max's Cell Repair Post Workout Recovery System, if that matters) after doing weights for ages back when I had a personal trainer and was trying to gain some muscle, but I've since stopped the personal training, and have put on a bit of fat around my gut that I'm trying to lose, so I've been doing more running recently. Should I be taking the powder after running, too? I can't work out if it will do more harm than good, and answers on the internet seem to range from exactly that to the exact opposite and even to 'don't worry about protein powder at all'. Or are all options equal and I should just do what I feel is best?

Take it if it fits in your allowed amount of calories of the day. If not, dont. Losing fat is about your diet, not about running versus weightlifting.
 
Regarding the supplements talk, I've just ran out of omega 3 and vitamins, started googling the latest researches, a lot claim they are useless, but then this video made me feel better about them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KgdGmXBfwU

They never caused me hram so I will continue using them.
I've been bulking pretty effectively. But I gain weight very easily anyways. currently 208, I think I'm going to cut down to 185 which would have me at ~5% bodyfat. Why so low? Just a goal to shoot for, and because I can. Not sure If I should start cutting next week or in January.
And imo it's so much more impressive when you can move big weights and you don't look appropriately big.
 
Nothing motivates me more to go back to the gym like playing basketball. Played for a few hours today and I got gassed way too fast. It's not fun being the guy everybody knows is too tired to play defense, so they just run routes to get complete open shots. I don't really have Ny weight goals or anything. I think I just want to get stronger overall. I am sure my core is my weakest part of me since I never do any sort of sit up or crunches.
 

teeny

Member
Weird and slightly gross question. I do a lot of cardio and as I have lost more weight I have started to sweat more.... and I sweat like a proper bastard.

I usually just wear joggers and a normal tee but I was wondering if there was a proper sports top or something I could get which would help with the sweat. Im concerned about stinking out the gym as well as with what I look like.

Do you guys wear anything specific you could link me to? Cheers.
 

snoopen

Member
Unsure if I should start cutting yet.. I want to do IF.

Current stats:
6"2, 86kg (190 pounds), ~20% bf

weights i normally avg (3-4 reps):
100kg bench
140kg squat
160kg deadlift

i'm feel pretty big, 40" chest, 33" waist and haven't measured arms. shoulders are quite wide, around 50".

the loose fat sitting around my waist is really starting to annoy me. i'm pretty lean in all areas besides the waist.

i don't imagine it would take more than 2 months to cut down to 80kg and lean out.. i'm just not sure what type of body i want.

i guess a solid, lean and ripped 75 would be alright, i just don't want to get too skinny :/
 

despire

Member
I am sure my core is my weakest part of me since I never do any sort of sit up or crunches.

Well it's not like sit ups or crunches would do you any good anyway. Both are inefficient in training your core/abs, provide little benefit and are potentially dangerous for your back.

There are ton's of better exercises to train the core. If you are training properly in the gym (ie. your routine includes squats and deadlifts) your core gets tons of exercise already just from those two exercises. If one wants to add more they can do planks or hanging leg raises for example.
 
Weird and slightly gross question. I do a lot of cardio and as I have lost more weight I have started to sweat more.... and I sweat like a proper bastard.

I usually just wear joggers and a normal tee but I was wondering if there was a proper sports top or something I could get which would help with the sweat. Im concerned about stinking out the gym as well as with what I look like.

Do you guys wear anything specific you could link me to? Cheers.


Dri-fit tees from either target or walmart.They are about 8 bucks a pop and help with the sweat, odor issues. I wore cotton tees for the longest time but they got to be ridiculously uncomfortable and heavy soaked in sweat.
 

sphinx

the piano man
Well it's not like sit ups or crunches would do you any good anyway. Both are inefficient in training your core/abs, provide little benefit and are potentially dangerous for your back.

There are ton's of better exercises to train the core. If you are training properly in the gym (ie. your routine includes squats and deadlifts) your core gets tons of exercise already just from those two exercises. If one wants to add more they can do planks or hanging leg raises for example.

I have a problem with this line of thinking.

One thing is to say Hanging leg raises provide a better workout for your core/abs. So much is true. But saying or implying that crunches should be avoided or dismissed alltogether seems to go against many sources that list them as a primary exercises for abs. I think there is a time and place for crunches. If they were truly pointless, I think the fitness world and science would have dismissed them long ago.

I think they are a good option for those who lack strength to lift themselves hanging from a bar, I see several guys really, really struggling to lift the legs, it is not an easy move you can get into on a whim, let alone do sets and reps.... they'd be better off doing crunches, if they want to train abs in an isolated way, specially if they are more into bodyweight/calisthenics, aka they don't "train properly" to exercise their core/abs with squats and deadlifts.

and I am really not sure what to think about the "it hurts your back" line. The way I see it, if you do them wrong or don't have the strength to activate the ab muscles when doing the crunches, your body will start to try to get help from other parts, particularly neck and back, something that really shouldn't be happening. Any exercise done wrong has the potential to be dangerous...but maybe crunches are a different thing and I haven't read enough about them and indeed, they hurt the back, regardless of whether they are being done right or wrong, so who knows. I can tell from my experience that they don't hurt my back, ever, when I first started doing them yeah, I'd feel back and neck sore because I sucked at doing them, but that was the first or 2nd week from when I started doing them.

and in my own personal opinion and experience, (maybe science disagrees and that's o.k), I have seen better results from crunches than from planks.

one thing we can agree on is that Hanging leg raises are the best choice.
 

theytookourjobz

Junior Member
I have a problem with this line of thinking.

One thing is to say Hanging leg raises provide a better workout for your core/abs. So much is true. But saying or implying that crunches should be avoided or dismissed alltogether seems to go against many sources that list them as a primary exercises for abs. I think there is a time and place for crunches. If they were truly pointless, I think the fitness world and science would have dismissed them long ago.

I think they are a good option for those who lack strength to lift themselves hanging from a bar, I see several guys really, really struggling to lift the legs, it is not an easy move you can get into on a whim, let alone do sets and reps.... they'd be better off doing crunches, if they want to train abs in an isolated way, specially if they are more into bodyweight/calisthenics, aka they don't "train properly" to exercise their core/abs with squats and deadlifts.

and I am really not sure what to think about the "it hurts your back" line. The way I see it, if you do them wrong or don't have the strength to activate the ab muscles when doing the crunches, your body will start to try to get help from other parts, particularly neck and back, something that really shouldn't be happening. Any exercise done wrong has the potential to be dangerous...but maybe crunches are a different thing and I haven't read enough about them and indeed, they hurt the back, regardless of whether they are being done right or wrong, so who knows. I can tell from my experience that they don't hurt my back, ever, when I first started doing them yeah, I'd feel back and neck sore because I sucked at doing them, but that was the first or 2nd week from when I started doing them.

and in my own personal opinion and experience, (maybe science disagrees and that's o.k), I have seen better results from crunches than from planks.

one thing we can agree on is that Hanging leg raises are the best choice.

The thinking here is that the purpose of abdominal muscles is midline stabilization and not trunk flexion, and using muscles in the ways they were designed is more effective at growing and strengthening them.
 

despire

Member
The problem with sit ups/crunches is that they don't really mimic the function of you core muscles really well which is to stabilize your spine. The natural function of the muscles of the core is to form a rigid cylinder so that you can transfer the power generated by your legs to your upper body. So the function of the core muscles/abs is mostly isometric.

This should mean that isometric exercises that force your abs to function the way they were designed to function should be the best. This means exercises like squats and deadlifts should be the primary exercises (in my opinion) if one wants a strong core. Planks should also be good as well as the much discussed hanging leg raises. I don't see why one couldn't compliment these exercises with few sit ups but they shouldn't be the first and foremost way to train your abs.

Of course not everyone gets their backs broken by sit ups but it's potentially dangerous for your back because it forces your spine to bend forwards and people usually do way too many reps which leads to issues. People think that doing sit ups gives you a sixpack and then do 200 of them every day and this puts unhealthy amount of strain to your spine. You can even pop a disk if you have it bad. And you see so much stupid shit in fitness/gyms that you can't really use them as an example for doing sit ups. Everyone does sit ups because everyone thinks they give you a sixpack.

My point is that sit ups/crunches are perhaps the least efficient way of strengthening your core and there is a real potential of fucking up your spine. So why do them?

Rip said:
In every weight room in all the countries of the world since the dawn of training with weights, the single biggest distraction from the actual task at hand has been abs.
 

teeny

Member
Dri-fit tees from either target or walmart.They are about 8 bucks a pop and help with the sweat, odor issues. I wore cotton tees for the longest time but they got to be ridiculously uncomfortable and heavy soaked in sweat.

Thanks for the info. I really dont know why I didnt ask / do my research sooner because the most offputting thing at the gym has been the cotton tees.

Anyway, popped out of the office at lunch and picked up some dri-fits from Sports Direct. Thanks!
 

sphinx

the piano man
The problem with sit ups/crunches is that they don't really mimic the function of you core muscles really well which is to stabilize your spine. The natural function of the muscles of the core is to form a rigid cylinder so that you can transfer the power generated by your legs to your upper body. So the function of the core muscles/abs is mostly isometric.

This should mean that isometric exercises that force your abs to function the way they were designed to function should be the best. This means exercises like squats and deadlifts should be the primary exercises (in my opinion) if one wants a strong core. Planks should also be good as well as the much discussed hanging leg raises. I don't see why one couldn't compliment these exercises with few sit ups but they shouldn't be the first and foremost way to train your abs.

Of course not everyone gets their backs broken by sit ups but it's potentially dangerous for your back because it forces your spine to bend forwards and people usually do way too many reps which leads to issues. People think that doing sit ups gives you a sixpack and then do 200 of them every day and this puts unhealthy amount of strain to your spine. You can even pop a disk if you have it bad. And you see so much stupid shit in fitness/gyms that you can't really use them as an example for doing sit ups. Everyone does sit ups because everyone thinks they give you a sixpack.

My point is that sit ups/crunches are perhaps the least efficient way of strengthening your core and there is a real potential of fucking up your spine. So why do them?

because they are a decent (and only) choice for people who don't lift weight (aka, squats and deadlifts) and who can't lift their legs easily hanging from a bar. Fucking up their spine because of bad technique or too many reps goes back to my comment of doing them wrong. If that's the case, they shouldn't be doing them at all, as with any exercise done wrong.

I am not arguing about whether there are better options for abs than crunches, I actually agree crunches give only limited results and that mostly everything else provides a better impact and faster results but not everyone has every exercise on the book at their disposal.

I understand the technical reasons you point to prefer other exercises over the crunches, in fact I agree with that completely, crunches is something I do for variety but I know their limitations. The only thing I disagree with is the "Avoid XYZ Exercise alltogether" line when said exercise appears in mostly every source available. As I said, if any exercise should be dismissed alltogether, then the fitness world and science would have taken them out of the list of exercises long ago.

In the best case, everyone should try everything that there is for a particular bodypart and see for themselves what brings the results and decide by themselves whether there is a problem with a particular kind of exercise. Different exercises work differently for different people.
 

TheCrow

Member
Finally getting to the point where I think I'm getting fat on my bulk. Up 15lbs since my PSMF and it's as if fat only attaches itself to my love handles. My upper body has a hourglass figure. :(
 
D

Deleted member 12837

Unconfirmed Member
As I said, if any exercise should be dismissed alltogether, then the fitness world and science would have taken them out of the list of exercises long ago.

You're giving way too much credit to the fitness world. The fitness world for the most part doesn't care about science or data, only $$$. Why do you think decades-old broscience myths still pervade every fitness magazine and website out there?

It's the same with nutrition advice (at least in the US).
 

agrajag

Banned
maybe I'm "doing it wrong," but my abs never get sore from squats and deadlifts. With that said, I rarely if ever do ab-specific exercises. Only so much time and I want to improve my strength primarily.
 

despire

Member
maybe I'm "doing it wrong," but my abs never get sore from squats and deadlifts. With that said, I rarely if ever do ab-specific exercises. Only so much time and I want to improve my strength primarily.

Remember that DOMS isn't a indicator of a good workout. It may be but you shouldn't treat it that way.


You're giving way too much credit to the fitness world. The fitness world for the most part doesn't care about science or data, only $$$. Why do you think decades-old broscience myths still pervade every fitness magazine and website out there?

It's the same with nutrition advice (at least in the US).

This.
 

Petrie

Banned
maybe I'm "doing it wrong," but my abs never get sore from squats and deadlifts. With that said, I rarely if ever do ab-specific exercises. Only so much time and I want to improve my strength primarily.

As said above, soreness doesn't relate to progress or results. They can come together, but one does not mean the other.
 

despire

Member
I need help in estimating my TDEE. I know there are calculators online and I've use the IF Calculator in the past but the problem with it is that it doesn't differentiate between rest days and workout days. The TDEE is always the same and I'd like to know what my TDEE is on rest days and workout days. I really have no idea. As far as I know it could be anything from 2500kcal to 3000kcal on workout days..

I'm 183,5kg/6feet, I weigh around 86kg/190lbs and I'm 23y old. Lifting 3x week for about an hour with two compound lifts RPT style. Rest days pretty sedentary. I take a bus to school and back. No cardio.
 

cametall

Member
Age: 26
Height: 5'7
Weight: 135
Goal: Lose love handles, build upper body strength
Current Training Schedule: Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday/Sunday an hour or more each.
Current Training Equipment Available: Anything at 24 Hour Fitness
Comments: I'm a total newb at working out. Played soccer for 14 years before starting college and working, now I'm a schlub.

I want to lose this muffin top I've developed. I'm dieting in that calories that go in are less than those that go out, but no specific food avoidance.

I have 0 upper body strength so that's something I would like to work on too.
 

agrajag

Banned
As said above, soreness doesn't relate to progress or results. They can come together, but one does not mean the other.

Are you guys also of the opinion that curls aren't necessary for bicep development and only do pull-ups and rowing movements? Just askin'
 

Srsly

Banned
Age: 26
Height: 5'7
Weight: 135
Goal: Lose love handles, build upper body strength
Current Training Schedule: Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday/Sunday an hour or more each.
Current Training Equipment Available: Anything at 24 Hour Fitness
Comments: I'm a total newb at working out. Played soccer for 14 years before starting college and working, now I'm a schlub.

I want to lose this muffin top I've developed. I'm dieting in that calories that go in are less than those that go out, but no specific food avoidance.

I have 0 upper body strength so that's something I would like to work on too.

You're 135 lbs, you have no reason to be in a calorie deficit. Lift hard (do a full body program with compound movements like starting strength), eat plenty of protein and get plenty of rest.
 

despire

Member
Are you guys also of the opinion that curls aren't necessary for bicep development and only do pull-ups and rowing movements? Just askin'

Curls are fine as long as they aren't your main focus. Which they are for majority of people in the gym. That's why they get so much crap.

Are they necessary? No. You can get big biceps without doing curls.


Also as long as my biceps are bigger than my triceps (which they are by a longshot) without ever doing curls I'm not planning on implementing them.
 

Addi

Member
Are you guys also of the opinion that curls aren't necessary for bicep development and only do pull-ups and rowing movements? Just askin'

I am. Well, I don't have anything against curls, but I don't like "wasting" my time on isolation exercises. I have only tried curls once or twice in my entire life, but I still have nice, proportionate biceps.
 

Noema

Member
why do you assume
that I am one
of those guys?

I'm not assuming. I'm obligated by law to include that disclaimer when talking about curls.

Some people need curls so they don't look disproportionate. Like me. I have a short torso with a big chest and a wide back, but I also have freakishly long spaghetti arms. My arm span is longer than my height. So I look sort of ridiculous at this point and I try to include arm work at the end of my strength training at least twice a week.

Some people with normal human anthropometry or better genetics might not need to do curls to get nice looking arms, and benching, pressing, chinups and rows will be enough for them. But people like me need all the help we can get.
 
D

Deleted member 12837

Unconfirmed Member

cametall

Member
You're 135 lbs, you have no reason to be in a calorie deficit. Lift hard (do a full body program with compound movements like starting strength), eat plenty of protein and get plenty of rest.

OK. I'll have a more balanced diet now. Will lifting help burn away love handles or just exercising "everything" will burn that fat away (lifting/running, etc.)?

Losing the love handles and my small gut are my main goal (they drive me crazy) but if what I've read is correct those will disappear as long as I continue to exercise.
 

Addi

Member
Hey everyone, I don't post often on fitness thread anymore but loved the fitness threads a while back and learned a lot from them. I'm currently in the process of running a kickstarter campaign for athletic guys who have trouble clothes shopping. If you got some time check it out! Thanks. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/otrunkett/swole-society-apparel-clothes-for-the-athletic-man

Cool. Last year I went to a Levi's store and tried all the things I liked (shirts and jeans), but nothing fitted. I told the girl that worked there that nothing in her store fitted me and she responded angrily "yeah, right, it's the clothes there something wrong with..". Wtf? I guess her argument would have been somewhat valid if I was fat or extremely thin, but I'm fit. First world problems i guess :p
 

blackflag

Member
I need help in estimating my TDEE. I know there are calculators online and I've use the IF Calculator in the past but the problem with it is that it doesn't differentiate between rest days and workout days. The TDEE is always the same and I'd like to know what my TDEE is on rest days and workout days. I really have no idea. As far as I know it could be anything from 2500kcal to 3000kcal on workout days..

I'm 183,5kg/6feet, I weigh around 86kg/190lbs and I'm 23y old. Lifting 3x week for about an hour with two compound lifts RPT style. Rest days pretty sedentary. I take a bus to school and back. No cardio.

It should be an average. You don't need to change it from rest days to workout days. However, if you want to do this, then you should calculate your TDEE with your workout day activity level, and also separately with a regular activity level, and then you have your 2 numbers.

Calculate your BMR and muliply by the following numbers based on your activity level.

Average activity variables are:
1.2 = Sedentary (Desk job, and Little Formal Exercise)
1.3-1.4 = Lightly Active (Light daily activity AND light exercise 1-3 days a week)
1.5-1.6 = Moderately Active (Moderately daily Activity & Moderate exercise 3-5 days a week)
1.7-1.8 = Very Active (Physically demanding lifestyle & Hard exercise 6-7 days a week)
1.9-2.2 = Extremely Active (Athlete in ENDURANCE training or VERY HARD physical job)
 

Pavaloo

Member
Ugh, I'm getting so tired of bulking. Been sitting at 206lbs (I'm 5'11'' btw) for a very long time now and it's driving me nuts. I remember hitting 200 and thinking 220 was not far away, but now it feels like I might not hit my goal till waaay later than I expected :/ Definitely doesn't help with the "you're looking fat now" comments. /vent. I can't wait to start cutting
 

Ravidrath

Member
Up to 4000 calories a day now... so fucking full all the time.

I got to say I'm loving eating a whole avocado with breakfast every morning, though.
 

TripOpt55

Member
After a year of not working out as much as I used to due to work, I am back to working out hard again. The best I can do is three days a week for now and for these first couple months I have focused mostly on lifting, but will be working cardio back in.

One of the things I wanted to do was get some of my strength back (this may be more for my mind I guess, but it can't hurt being able to push some more weights in my workouts). I used to be able to lift much more. I don't think I want to go back to doing cleans, but I would like to get my bench and squat numbers back up. I think I will add deadlifts back in soon. I am hoping to be able to bench 300 pounds again (haven't done it since I was about 20 (now 28), my best was 310) and my squat to about 405 (I used to be able to do 500+ in high school, but stopped squatting a while back, so am way off those numbers). I repped out at 220 and got 14 reps on bench yesterday which is a little better than I thought I'd be doing at this point in time, but am slowly working the weights up.

After I get some of my strength and size back, I am going to try and cut a bit. Maybe in February/March I will start that. I am about 193 and am definitely carrying a little too much fat. I am really enjoying being back at the gym and feel like it is going pretty well so far. Will try and check in here a bit more with progress.
 

MrOogieBoogie

BioShock Infinite is like playing some homeless guy's vivid imagination
The problem with sit ups/crunches is that they don't really mimic the function of you core muscles really well which is to stabilize your spine. The natural function of the muscles of the core is to form a rigid cylinder so that you can transfer the power generated by your legs to your upper body. So the function of the core muscles/abs is mostly isometric.

This should mean that isometric exercises that force your abs to function the way they were designed to function should be the best. This means exercises like squats and deadlifts should be the primary exercises (in my opinion) if one wants a strong core. Planks should also be good as well as the much discussed hanging leg raises. I don't see why one couldn't compliment these exercises with few sit ups but they shouldn't be the first and foremost way to train your abs.

I agree with this 100%.

The reason my core is very strong is due to a variety of hanging leg raises and plank exercises. I pretty much NEVER do sit-ups, yet I can hold an L-sit for 45 seconds to a minute.

I posted about this earlier, but all the hanging leg raises, L-sits, planks, and levers that I've been doing have helped TREMENDOUSLY with deadlifts. Three years ago when all I did for abs were crunches and sit-ups, I honestly couldn't deadlift more than 145lbs with horrible form. That was my max for a long time, and I would always feel pain in my lower back. My core was just insanely weak. After a couple years now of constant bodyweight core exercises, I'm pulling 185lbs off the floor with zero lower back pain or struggle. Tomorrow I'm going to try 200lbs, which I probably couldn't even hold standing upright several years ago. My pendlay rows have also improved tremendously. I was pulling 120lbs yesterday with what felt like zero effort, and no back arching.

So yeah, my personal anecdotal evidence fully supports the notion that constant sit-up work is one of the least effective ways of developing a strong core.
 

Ravidrath

Member
Besides the avocado, what are you eating?

Here's the grocery list version...

Eggs (2 whole, 4 whites)
Ezekiel Bread w/ Jam
Whole Avocado
Almonds
Whole Wheat Crackers
Almond Butter
Greek Yogurt
Veggies (Broccoli, Green Beans)
Fruit (Bananas, Pears)
Honey
Chicken
Quinoa
Tuna
Skim Milk

Waxy maize during the workout
Whey protein after
Casein before bed
 

Christopher

Member
photo9.jpg


My stomach needs some work, but otherwise I need to start getting a bit bigger.
 
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