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[Carbonox]

I'm proud of my progress (sorry for tiny picture). I don't have a reliable 'before' picture but the difference to a few years ago is big.

Whereas before I was a lot slimmer, (though did have sizeable legs due to the sports I did for most of my younger years) now I feel more proportional due to my upper body having lagged for a long time. Starting at the gym properly with a program last February, injury took me out of the gym for several months from the autumn of last year to the spring of this year, but I got back in to the swing of things and now feel better than ever before in terms of gains.

I'm looking forward to my first cut but that won't be until next year I think.

Either way, I felt I needed to share this like so many before me. Feels good.

 

[Keylime]

Yeah I never understand this.

Like the guy from SA who was ripped as shit. Overall theme here was; "YEAH HIS BODY IS 'OK I GUESS' BUT HE"S A MORON AND DOING EVERYTHING WRONG" "YOU WANNA END UP LIKE HIM? HAVE NECK PROBLEMS?" "HE WEAK TOO"

I mean seriously. I have this stupid discussion almost every week with the person I train with. He wants to get even bigger and jacked. I guess that comes with being a personal trainer. Meanwhile I prefer to be cut and lean. Still it boggles his mind that I continue to enjoy the same lifts and routines he does, yet have no desire to get huge and eat a ton, or take supplements.

When I saw the guy from the SA thread, I said that's exactly how I want to look. I don't care how much he can bench or deadlift or squat... the lesson learned for me from that picture was how much more work I need to do:

Given his weight of 180, and his height of 6'1...it tells me that to look like that I'd need to gain roughly 20 pounds of muscle and lose 10 pounds of fat (total bullshit approximations, but generally speaking I know that if I gained 6 pounds of muscle I wouldn't magically look like him...and alternatively I know that if I gained 10 pounds of muscle and lost 4 pounds of fat I wouldn't look like him either. Maybe it's more like 15 pounds of muscle and 10 pounds of fat or something...but either way the takeaway is that minimally I need more muscle mass than I currently have to even have that kind of physique underneath my fat.

In terms of my desired look, I'd rather get the 6 pack first and work on bulking from there versus bulk up first and then try and cut down. I want to have a good base look before I start trying to mess with it.

Sounds like I'm cutting down to a stick and then going to lean-bulk from there.

Should be fun

 

[deadbeef]

i, for one, don't have the energy to bench squat and deadlift heavy, and then go do accessory work, regardless of which body part it would be for

Isn't it great? I'm looking forward to today's workout. Going to bring the belt just in case but I woul like to finish the workout without it.

 

[Petrie]

Holy shit, I'm dying here. I really appreciate reading this thread and all the advice in it, but why does it seem that the official GAF FITNESS thread is completely dominated by power lifters?

I think the guys above have it right, the thread isn't dominated by them, but if you're going to the gym to do some curls and hit the treadmill, how much is there really to talk about? Whereas if you are on a linear lifting compound program, you are hitting milestones constantly, and tweaking things on a regular basis, so there's just a lot more to talk about, and to encourage.

Also, people who think squatting and deadlifting makes you a powerlifter not looking for aesthetics are silly.

When I saw the guy from the SA thread, I said that's exactly how I want to look. I don't care how much he can bench or deadlift or squat... the lesson learned for me from that picture was how much more work I need to do:

Given his weight of 180, and his height of 6'1...it tells me that to look like that I'd need to gain roughly 20 pounds of muscle and lose 10 pounds of fat (total bullshit approximations, but generally speaking I know that if I gained 6 pounds of muscle I wouldn't magically look like him...and alternatively I know that if I gained 10 pounds of muscle and lost 4 pounds of fat I wouldn't look like him either. Maybe it's more like 15 pounds of muscle and 10 pounds of fat or something...but either way the takeaway is that minimally I need more muscle mass than I currently have to even have that kind of physique underneath my fat.

In terms of my desired look, I'd rather get the 6 pack first and work on bulking from there versus bulk up first and then try and cut down. I want to have a good base look before I start trying to mess with it.

Sounds like I'm cutting down to a stick and then going to lean-bulk from there.

Should be fun

And you understand why people are going to tell you not to do that I hope. You are doing twice the work and going to take far longer because of it. You are cutrting down so you can then bulk, effectively negating all the work you did cutting, and then bulking, so at the end, you can cut again. It makes no damn sense if you don't have the muscle to make a cut worthwhile yet.

 

[I'm an expert]

Anyone here have any experience with hot yoga? How is it? Gonna rotate it in on my off days to add some flexibility.

 

[Keylime]

And you understand why people are going to tell you not to do that I hope. You are doing twice the work and going to take far longer because of it. You are cutrting down so you can then bulk, effectively negating all the work you did cutting, and then bulking, so at the end, you can cut again. It makes no damn sense if you don't have the muscle to make a cut worthwhile yet.

Short term visual acceptability is goal #1, and bulking right now wouldn't get me there in my mind. I want to take my shirt off at the beach and not worry about all this jiggly shit on my stomach.

I'm more than willing to become a stick if that's what it takes, I know I'll be fit as all hell during the entire process. I'll be weak by this thread's standards, but certainly in WAY better shape than I've ever been in my life.

From that point, I can basically do a lean bulk and slowly build muscle mass.

That's the hope, at least.

 

[CrankyJay]

Short term visual acceptability is goal #1, and bulking right now wouldn't get me there in my mind. I want to take my shirt off at the beach and not worry about all this jiggly shit on my stomach.

I'm more than willing to become a stick if that's what it takes, I know I'll be fit as all hell during the entire process. I'll be weak by this thread's standards, but certainly in WAY better shape than I've ever been in my life.

From that point, I can basically do a lean bulk and slowly build muscle mass.

That's the hope, at least.

You could actually be less jiggly if you put on some muscle under that pouch and skin. You may also benefit from burning some fat while you pack on muscle.

 

[Kwhit10]

Short term visual acceptability is goal #1, and bulking right now wouldn't get me there in my mind. I want to take my shirt off at the beach and not worry about all this jiggly shit on my stomach.

I'm more than willing to become a stick if that's what it takes, I know I'll be fit as all hell during the entire process. I'll be weak by this thread's standards, but certainly in WAY better shape than I've ever been in my life.

From that point, I can basically do a lean bulk and slowly build muscle mass.

That's the hope, at least.

You only do body weight stuff as well right? I don't think you should even bother with bulking because it would be much more difficult than if you were lifting plates.

 

[Keylime]

You could actually be less jiggly if you put on some muscle under that pouch and skin. You may also benefit from burning some fat while you pack on muscle.

That kind of gets back to my original question, though. What's the most efficient method given where I look to be?

I was thinking of just doing a recomp of -20% on rest days and +20% on workout days to more or less stay the same weight and hopefully emphasize fat loss + muscle gain while staying put weight wise.

You only do body weight stuff as well right? I don't think you should even bother with bulking because it would be much more difficult than if you were lifting plates.

I am, but I've got a 60lb adjustable weight vest coming to help increase the difficulty of my exercises so I can keep my reps in the sweet spot. If I need more than a 60lb vest than I'll be ecstatic

 

[CrankyJay]

That kind of gets back to my original question, though. What's the most efficient method given where I look to be?

I was thinking of just doing a recomp of -20% on rest days and +20% on workout days to more or less stay the same weight and hopefully emphasize fat loss + muscle gain while staying put weight wise.

Just took another look at your picture.

A. Your stomach looks decent from that angle...
B. It will look better if you bulk up your abs, chest and shoulders, and back

Once you do that, you could do a cut to maintain what you gained and burn some BF and you'll look how you want.

Petrie is right, you'll be doing double the work if you do it the way you want.

Saying that with the utmost respect...not trying to put down your plan.

 

[Keylime]

Just took another look at your picture.

A. Your stomach looks decent from that angle...
B. It will look better if you bulk up your abs, chest and shoulders, and back

Once you do that, you could do a cut to maintain what you gained and burn some BF and you'll look how you want.

Petrie is right, you'll be doing double the work if you do it the way you want.

Saying that with the utmost respect...not trying to put down your plan.

No offense taken at all, I'm entirely open to criticism and feedback!

I ate yesterday as if I was going on a bulking program, so today I'll just need to up my macros so I hit the right levels. I don't mind following a slow lean-massing program and seeing how it goes. Will look like this:

 

[SeanR1221]

And you understand why people are going to tell you not to do that I hope. You are doing twice the work and going to take far longer because of it. You are cutrting down so you can then bulk, effectively negating all the work you did cutting, and then bulking, so at the end, you can cut again. It makes no damn sense if you don't have the muscle to make a cut worthwhile yet.

This will sound dumb, but I thought it was a good idea to cut to a good "base" and then start a bulk.

I guess a better way to put it is what should I really be doing?

- in college I was slimmer but weak. First time dieting and doing iso exercises.

- in grad school I put on 20 pounds and got fatter

- came here and posted the iso routine I was going to do in January. Got ripped up for it, told to do compounds.

- started Strong lifts, made decent gains

- last month I decided I need to cut weight, and I'm not happy about the fat I carry. Keeping my SL compound weights the same I started eating on calorie deficit to cut, adding in cardio on off days.

- I was hoping to do this until I was satisfied with my body then trying a real bulk to get stronger.

 

[balddemon]

Isn't it great? I'm looking forward to today's workout. Going to bring the belt just in case but I woul like to finish the workout without it.

yeahhhhh i just got back. not as hard today, but those first 3 sets are the most difficult

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

There was a big blowup a few weeks ago about aesthetics versus powerlifting. The thread seems more focused on the latter ever since

I wouldn't say that's the case. Most people here ARE going for aesthetics I think, just most people want to be strong and look good at the same time, not be skinny with abs. I would say any "powerlifters" here are in the minority. That may sound inflammatory, but it's not meant to be. Most of the guys here try to help people by keeping them from sacrificing health/strength while on the search for "deep summer cuts." But most people here aren't against aesthetics or body building at all.

 

[bro1]

anybody else have their best workouts when they don't want to lift? I was dreading my workout today and made myself get into my garage to do my squats. Ended up doing 5x5 @ 295lbs and then 2x15 @ 225lbs to finish off my legs. Also set a PR of 20 pull-ups! I'm at 189lbs right now and feeling really good. Just have to get that squat up!

Thursday is deadlifts and I'm hoping to pull 405x5.

 

[Petrie]

This will sound dumb, but I thought it was a good idea to cut to a good "base" and then start a bulk.

I guess a better way to put it is what should I really be doing?

- in college I was slimmer but weak. First time dieting and doing iso exercises.

- in grad school I put on 20 pounds and got fatter

- came here and posted the iso routine I was going to do in January. Got ripped up for it, told to do compounds.

- started Strong lifts, made decent gains

- last month I decided I need to cut weight, and I'm not happy about the fat I carry. Keeping my SL compound weights the same I started eating on calorie deficit to cut, adding in cardio on off days.

- I was hoping to do this until I was satisfied with my body then trying a real bulk to get stronger.

I think it depends where you're starting. If you're a skinnyfat kid with 18% body fat but no muscle, starting with a cut is kind of silly. If you are a bigger guy with 25%+ at 230lbs, it makes more sense to cut some fat to begin with. People want an ideal solution but we are all different.


At Rubix, the problem is you keep asking for the most efficient way to get your goals, but you're doing bodyweight, which in and of itself isn't the most efficient way to get the results you want. Weight training is going to be more efficient even if you don't want to be huge. That's not to say bodyweight training can't be great and get you there, but you seem to want to get there faster, and bodyweight training is going to take longer.

anybody else have their best workouts when they don't want to lift? I was dreading my workout today and made myself get into my garage to do my squats. Ended up doing 5x5 @ 295lbs and then 2x15 @ 225lbs to finish off my legs. Also set a PR of 20 pull-ups! I'm at 189lbs right now and feeling really good. Just have to get that squat up!

Thursday is deadlifts and I'm hoping to pull 405x5.

I wish that happened to me, but my best lifts always happen when I am super psyched to be there. If I'm not into it I'm lucky to put up the same weight I did last time for less sets.

 

[FallingEdge]

If you want to lift to look good, then by all means, do it. However, my definition of 'looking good' is going to be different that yours. I think having a solid frame even if you are heavier is much more important and better looking then being skinny and having abs. Losing fat is easy, gaining muscle is much harder. My thoughts anyway.

What gets to me is that the people who want to look good and lift for aesthetics but completely neglect their back and legs. To me, that looks dumb. And if you are trying to grow or get bigger, you are just going to be running around in circles. If you want to put an emphasis on beach muscles, that's fine. But don't neglect the other parts of your body. /endRant

This will sound dumb, but I thought it was a good idea to cut to a good "base" and then start a bulk.

I guess a better way to put it is what should I really be doing?

- in college I was slimmer but weak. First time dieting and doing iso exercises.

- in grad school I put on 20 pounds and got fatter

- came here and posted the iso routine I was going to do in January. Got ripped up for it, told to do compounds.

- started Strong lifts, made decent gains

- last month I decided I need to cut weight, and I'm not happy about the fat I carry. Keeping my SL compound weights the same I started eating on calorie deficit to cut, adding in cardio on off days.

- I was hoping to do this until I was satisfied with my body then trying a real bulk to get stronger.

It is fine if you want to get leaner/lose fat but I think the issue most people have in this thread is that why cut when there is no muscle to show. It just seems counter productive. I'm not fully sure on your situation but only you can be the judge of that.

 

[Petrie]

What gets to me is that the people who want to look good and lift for aesthetics but completely neglect their back and legs. To me, that looks dumb. And if you are trying to grow or get bigger, you are just going to be running around in circles. If you want to put an emphasis on beach muscles, that's fine. But don't neglect the other parts of your body. /endRant



It is fine if you want to get leaner/lose fat but I think the issue most people have in this thread is that why cut when there is no muscle to show. It just seems counter productive. I'm not fully sure on your situation but only you can be the judge of that.

Precisely. Congrats, you have 3% bodyfat, but look like the kid from The New Guy. Way to go!

 

[CrankyJay]

What gets to me is that the people who want to look good and lift for aesthetics but completely neglect their back and legs.

Interestingly enough, I'm on a cut and I find myself preferring compound exercises on legs and back because I feel I burn more calories on these exercises.

As far as mornings go, I'm the only guy in my gym who does free form squats with a straight bar. I've seen one other guy on the smith machine but that's it.

 

[EviLore]

Yep, I haven't seen anyone at my gym aside from myself do actual barbell squats of any sort. The only squats I see are swiss balls or quarter squats on the smith machine. The quarter squats on the smith machine are never with anything more than one plate.

The bench reps are almost always halfway down and in front of their face. The deadlifts are never started from the actual ground, rather on safety bars halfway up. etc. etc. Pretty standard stuff everywhere except for powerlifting and olympic lifting oriented places, I'd imagine.

 

[Keylime]

At Rubix, the problem is you keep asking for the most efficient way to get your goals, but you're doing bodyweight, which in and of itself isn't the most efficient way to get the results you want. Weight training is going to be more efficient even if you don't want to be huge. That's not to say bodyweight training can't be great and get you there, but you seem to want to get there faster, and bodyweight training is going to take longer.

That does make sense, and I'd agree with that bit.

I would go as far to argue that there are ways to do bodyweight exercises and keep the rep counts lower by working differently, however. There are progressions for just about any good bodyweight routine out there that let you keep increasing the difficulty of the movements and keep your reps low to keep building strength.

I've bought a weight vest so I can do more traditional exercises but still increase the resistance so I can keep improving my strength as another alternative.

...but agreed, plate pushing would definitely be the ideal method of maximizing strength gains and thus muscle size due to having unlimited ability to add resistance as well as very precise control over increasing resistance.

I'm not at all knocking you plate-pushers, I'm just saying for me it's not an option and I'm making due with what I've got/want to do.

 

[bjb]

What's the consensus on doing / using hack squat?

 

[Haxxor]

If you are a bigger guy with 25%+ at 230lbs, it makes more sense to cut some fat to begin with. People want an ideal solution but we are all different.

Hey ppl mind if I just jump in here for a quick question.

I'm a bigger guy (tall and heavy) would it be better for me to cut down some on my weight while going to the gym (i.e. eating less calories)?

I don't know my fat%, but i'm about 253 lbs and have been at that weight while going to the gym and doing SS.

Ill try to link a photo (a bad one!) so maybe some of you can guesstimate my fat %....

 

[SeanR1221]

Ok thanks guys, that makes sense now.

Other question, when I started my cut, I kept my weights at the max where I'm pushing myself with perfect form, and I'm doing a 3x5 for everything. Should I push for a 3x10 being on a cut? 3x5 for compound but 3x10 for accessories?

 

[Petrie]

Hey ppl mind if I just jump in here for a quick question.

I'm a bigger guy (tall and heavy) would it be better for me to cut down some on my weight while going to the gym (i.e. eating less calories)?

I don't know my fat%, but i'm about 253 lbs and have been at that weight while going to the gym and doing SS.

Ill try to link a photo (a bad one!) so maybe some of you can guesstimate my fat %....

I'd guess you have the type of body where you'll be able to lose some fat and gain some muscle, even while eating a pretty good amount. Hard to guess too much without your height and other details though.

 

[Hero]

Great OP and I like a lot of the information on there but in terms of weight/fat loss compared to bulking up what would you guys recommend? I enjoy weight lifting but absolutely hate cardio (running primarily) but I can do stuff like eliptical or stairs. Maybe swimming. Should I mix in cardio routine after a workout routine or do it on non-workout days? I.e. if I plan to go MWF for weight training should I do cardio on Tuesday/Thursday? Or would it be better to do some cardio after training on MWF?

Edit:

I mean the answer is obviously do more cardio, either way it'd be better than doing less of it. Was just wondering if there was any science to maximize the results or be more efficient. I tend to be better with a strict schedule or pattern.

 

[Carbonox]

Yep, I haven't seen anyone at my gym aside from myself do actual barbell squats of any sort. The only squats I see are swiss balls or quarter squats on the smith machine. The quarter squats on the smith machine are never with anything more than one plate.

The bench reps are almost always halfway down and in front of their face. The deadlifts are never started from the actual ground, rather on safety bars halfway up. etc. etc. Pretty standard stuff everywhere except for powerlifting and olympic lifting oriented places, I'd imagine.

This.

I get funny looks when I squat, as if it's completely alien to everyone. I thrive on it though. I think in the entire time I've been at my gym, I've seen 3 people at the most who squat with a barbell. Guys who you can tell have been doing it for a very long time.

That image that I've seen here before of the guy with a large upper body and tiny legs rings true for your mainstream gym. The feedback you get from people when you bring up back and leg work can be comical and outright stupid.

But whatever, I'm not there to look/criticise these people. Only 10% (not even that) would probably take any advice you'd offer them.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

This is for you MJ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04jHS_CXBFA&feature=g-vrec

 

[MrToughPants]

What's the consensus on doing / using hack squat?

Good way to build monstrous quads if you don't front squat.

 

[agrajag]

I think the guys above have it right, the thread isn't dominated by them, but if you're going to the gym to do some curls and hit the treadmill, how much is there really to talk about? Whereas if you are on a linear lifting compound program, you are hitting milestones constantly, and tweaking things on a regular basis, so there's just a lot more to talk about, and to encourage.

Yeah, but it also seems like those folks want to take a shit on whoever is not into that.

Also, people who think squatting and deadlifting makes you a powerlifter not looking for aesthetics are silly.

Fair enough.

 

[Petrie]

Yeah, but it also seems like those folks want to take a shit on whoever is not into that.



Fair enough.

Those lifts really are essential for anyone looking for maximize their gains, be it in strength or aesthetics.

People come in saying how that means we are overgrown stupid powerlifters, but if you saw me or many others, you'd see that's simply not the case at all. We just know the quickest route between the 2 points, and go for efficiency.

 

[CrankyJay]

Those lifts really are essential for anyone looking for maximize their gains, be it in strength or aesthetics.

People come in saying how that means we are overgrown stupid powerlifters, but if you saw me or many others, you'd see that's simply not the case at all. We just know the quickest route between the 2 points, and go for efficiency.

Pics! Nao!

 

[agrajag]

What's the consensus on doing / using hack squat?

I was wondering this too. Professional bodybuilders seem to love hack squats.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Pics! Nao!

Him and City have both posted pics, and I assure you, if you're looking for a "meat head" you're going to be surprised.

 

[agrajag]

What's the consensus on locking out knees when doing squats? Do you guys do it?

 

[CrankyJay]

Him and City have both posted pics, and I assure you, if you're looking for a "meat head" you're going to be surprised.

I'm not. If I hit my goal of 185 I'll most likely be lanky.

Also because he lives in my city.

 

[deadbeef]

yeahhhhh i just got back. not as hard today, but those first 3 sets are the most difficult

Yeah the effort was not as difficult today. Bar felt good on my back. A good workout. Looking forward to tomorrow.

 

[Petrie]

I'm not. If I hit my goal of 185 I'll most likely be lanky.

Also because he lives in my city.

That's right, half of Fit-GAF lives in Buffalo. I always wonder if I see any Gafers and don't know it.

I'm actually planning to take some new pics sometime this week now that I'm nearing the end of my cut. I'll get them on here asap.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

That's right, half of Fit-GAF lives in Buffalo. I always wonder if I see any Gafers and don't know it.

I'm actually planning to take some new pics sometime this week now that I'm nearing the end of my cut. I'll get them on here asap.

My brother lives in Cheektowaga, lol.

 

[bjb]

I was wondering this too. Professional bodybuilders seem to love hack squats.

I tried hack squats earlier this week. Ddidn't really feel the burn during the rep like I normally would for regular squats, but it's somewhat similar I guess.

Didn't notice any additional soreness the following days after.

 

[CrankyJay]

That's right, half of Fit-GAF lives in Buffalo. I always wonder if I see any Gafers and don't know it.

I'm actually planning to take some new pics sometime this week now that I'm nearing the end of my cut. I'll get them on here asap.

Same. Have another 10-15 to go for me. Would love to post my wedding pic of my fat face at 220 and hopefully my goal of 180-185 maintaining as much muscle mass as I can.

 

[agrajag]

I tried hack squats earlier this week. Ddidn't really feel the burn during the rep like I normally would for regular squats, but it's somewhat similar I guess.

Didn't notice any additional soreness the following days after.

You should be able to do more weight on the hack squat than a barbell squat, no?

 

[Petrie]

My brother lives in Cheektowaga, lol.

Yeah if you're ever in town you better come show off what a beast you are!

 

[Ketch]

Hey guys. Please bare with me while I brag for a second.

Less than a year ago I weighed 240 (I'm 5'10"). Today I weigh 180 and I just ran 4 miles in 23 minutes.

Suck it obesity.

 

[bjb]

You should be able to do more weight on the hack squat than a barbell squat, no?

yup

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Yeah if you're ever in town you better come show off what a beast you are!

Lol, when I go to Buffalo/Cheektowaga I'll let ya'll know.

 

[MrToughPants]

Him and City have both posted pics, and I assure you, if you're looking for a "meat head" you're going to be surprised.

I tried to take some pics at 198 but my camera is a POS, a $350 POS aka I fucking suck at using cameras. I'd like to get back to 215lbs by years end.

4egg + 1.5c egg whites scrambled with 300g 28% marble cheese, 3 rye toast with margarine (nom), 500ml milk, 1L pure apple juice ( dehydrated from 39c humidity and work) PWO meal for me.

Second "workout" was alright FS, RDL, CGBP, LTE (went from 186x5 to 125x5 in about 2 months) hopefully these shoulders keep up.

Thursday night is DL, OHP, L-raises, P-Row,

 

[muntersaur]

Only to find they diet down to 162 lbs and look like a skeleton with abs.

When guys get really, really skinny, they seem to get more skeleton-like and ribs appear where abs should be good. Good luck though.

Hey guys, these are four month old pictures of me at 5'11 158lbs - look, a skeleton with abs!


Edit: By the way, these pictures are far away from my goal (at least another 20lbs) but I know I can easily get there without ever going a massive bulk or ever going much above 10% bodyfat

 

[bjb]

Damn man you're cut - looking good.

158...sheesh. I'm a little taller than you - currently shooting for 170ish.

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

Hey guys, these are four month old pictures of me at 5'11 158lbs - look, a skeleton with abs!

Looking really good, man. Skinny doesn't automatically = skin-and-bones, even at 5'11" or 6'0". Some people just hold their weight better than others.

I'm nearly the exact same size as you (same height, slightly less weight), but I feel like both of us look bigger than what our "numbers" suggest.