• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Fitness |OT4| Squat Booty, Summer Cuts, and Super Swoletrophy

Status
Not open for further replies.
P

Petrie

Banned
jdouglas said:
I think you're supposed to wait a bit longer than one day for recovery; deadlifts and squats work a lot of the same muscle groups.
Click to expand...

Yea, those 2 lifts really shouldn't be on back-to-back days.

Noema said:
I do Squats on 5/3/1 on Monday and the reason is twofold:

I'm freshest on Monday. Since I consider the Squat to be the most important lift, I like doing it as the week starts so I perform better.

Squats scare the bejesus out of me. They make me very anxious. So by doing them on Monday I get them out of the way, and I feel much more relaxed throughout the week.
Click to expand...

Used to do this myself, but now I enjoy having a week off from one lift every week.
 
P

Petrie

Banned
SeanR1221 said:
I owe a lot to you. You told me to man up and do strong lifts a year ago and put me in my place that I was a novice. In a way, you're my fitness savior.
Click to expand...

Aww, isn't that cute!

:)

Srsly said:
I do them back to back. Come at me bro. People should be less fearful of the overtraining boogeyman
Click to expand...

This isn't about overtraining. If you do them back to back, there is no way you are squatting at your greatest capacity. It's about ensuring you are getting the most out of your training.
 
P

PBY

Banned
Just needed to say again, that its not for everyone, but Kelei's routine is absolutely working miracles for me (my diet is also helping, i guess)

Just put up 230 x 10,3,3,3,3, etc til i hit 50 reps.

Basically I'm not eating anything except taking BCAAs pre-lift, I'll lift from 2-4, play bball after, and then eat upwards of 2500 calories for dinner. Body is shaping up amazingly so fast too.
 
S

Srsly

Banned
Petrie said:
Aww, isn't that cute!

:)



This isn't about overtraining. If you do them back to back, there is no way you are squatting at your greatest capacity. It's about ensuring you are getting the most out of your training.
Click to expand...

Or not being a pussy? Ever hear of Smolov? You squat multiple days in a row, and it's the best way to make gains for a non-beginner.
 
P

Petrie

Banned
Srsly said:
Or not being a pussy? Ever hear of Smolov? You squat multiple days in a row, and it's the best way to make gains for a non-beginner.
Click to expand...

But we aren't discussing that program. We are discussing deads the day before squats, which is not going to lead to what you're describing.
 
entremet

entremet

Member
Srsly said:
Or not being a pussy? Ever hear of Smolov? You squat multiple days in a row, and it's the best way to make gains for a non-beginner.
Click to expand...

Eh Smolov was designed for athletes on drugs. Not that a natural lifter can't benefit, but it's definitely not something long term.
 
S

SeanR1221

Member
Petrie said:
Ideally you'd do say Monday - press, Tues - Deads, Thurs - Bench, Fri -Squat, or something of that nature.
Click to expand...

Yup. I usually do Tuesday/bench, Wednesday/Deads, Saturday/press, Sunday/squat.

Works for me because I usually work late Mondays and Thursdays. On Fridays I usually come home and want to go out.

I don't usually say usually so much.
 
S

Srsly

Banned
entrement said:
Eh Smolov was designed for athletes on drugs. Not that a natural lifter can't benefit, but it's definitely not something long term.
Click to expand...

Layne Norton did Smolov, and I believe he squats and deadlifts on the same day. Lots of programs have squats and deadlifts on the same days. There was a study (Nordic, I believe) where they had one group doing a normal routine and another group that was absolutely destroyed pretty much every day and the second group made the most gains, by far. The best way to make a muscle group grow is to stimulate it as much as possible. There's no reason squats and deadlifts can't be done back to back unless you have joint issues or something or you aren't resting and eating well. You might initially be weaker on the 2nd day, but your body should adapt fairly quickly.
 
P

PBY

Banned
Srsly said:
Layne Norton did Smolov, and I believe he squats and deadlifts on the same day. Lots of programs have squats and deadlifts on the same days. There was a study (Nordic, I believe) where they had one group doing a normal routine and another group that was absolutely destroyed pretty much every day and the second group made the most gains, by far. The best way to make a muscle group grow is to stimulate it as much as possible. There's no reason squats and deadlifts can't be done back to back unless you have joint issues or something or you aren't resting and eating well. You might initially be weaker on the 2nd day, but your body should adapt fairly quickly.
Click to expand...
You're routine has the same principles as mine- totally working for me. But, it's definitely for advanced lifters, if not you could really stall for no reason.
 
N

Noema

Member
Srsly said:
Layne Norton did Smolov, and I believe he squats and deadlifts on the same day. Lots of programs have squats and deadlifts on the same days..
Click to expand...

But he didn't deadlift for the duration of Smolov's. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0a7v6_W-Mo

I mean, it's not like your dick is going fall off if you Squat and Deadlift the same day. On Wednesdays I do 531 Deadlifts and then I do Paused Squats (but then again, it's a submaximal effort). And like you said, most strength programs will have you squatting and deadlifting the same day, at least for a while.

But when deadlifts get heavy, they take a toll on recovery. For anyone who can deadlift more than 5 plates, a 1RM, 2RM or even 3RM takes a toll on the CNS. They get to a point where one has to program around them, at least the heavy ones.

I think the point people are trying to make here is that, on a 4 or 5 day split, it wouldn't be optimal to have deadlifts and then squats on consecutive days. if you are doing a split anyway, might as well do Lower Body / Upper Body / Lower Body, etc.

Then again, if it works, fine. Plus squats and then deadlifts the next day (or even later that day) would probably work much better than deadlifts and then squats the next day since Squats are much easier to recover from.
 
T

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
What do you guys think of this? I was trying to taper down from a shitty carb loaded American diet to full keto, but maybe I won't go that far.
 
S

SeanR1221

Member
cuevas said:
I'm glad you went on it :) what are your stats now?

I'm on my second cycle of madcow now
Click to expand...

I did SL for a year, had to deload once after I got in a car accident and my car was totaled. Also got sloppy towards the end. I started Coan's peaking cycle for 10 weeks ago and I'm stronger than I've ever been.

My current stats are

Deadlift 315x4 (going for 350x1 in 4 weeks)
Squat 245x5 (was supposed to top out at 265x1 in 4 weeks but I pushed out a 275x1 last workout so who knows where I'll end!)
Bench 195x4 (should top out at 205 tomorrow then reset)
 
S

Srsly

Banned
Timedog said:
What do you guys think of this? I was trying to taper down from a shitty carb loaded American diet to full keto, but maybe I won't go that far.
Click to expand...

Keto's biggest advantage is that it can kill your appetite. I'm not sure whether there is a metabolic advantage or not with keto, but there was another study that came out last year that measured EE using doubly-labelled water (which is very accurate) and the low carb group had the highest EE, moderate carb second highest and low fat was lowest.

Two big things jumped out at me in the study you linked.

1) they assessed body composition using bioelectrical impedence, which is fairly innacurate, especially with changes in hydration -- the keto group should hold less water.

2) "HH and BS contributed to study design, AW provided technical and dietary assistance, PDS contributed to study design and provided technical assistance, SLT formulated the diet plans and prepared all meals and food packages, and CSJ contributed to study design, performed the statistical analyses, and wrote the manuscript. All authors made intellectual contributions to the manuscript. SLT received consulting fees from the Inflammation Research Foundation for participation in the research presented here. HH is an employee of Zone Labs Inc. BS is a stockholder and serves on the boards of directors of Zone Labs Inc and Zone Cuisine Inc; he is also on the boards of directors of Zone Café and ZoneNet. None of the other authors had any personal or financial conflict of interest."

The zone diet is a 40% carb diet

But carbs are fine if you're active, especially if you're doing something glycolytically demanding such as weight training.
 
B

bjb

Banned
Just going to throw this out there (particularly for the older members of FitGAF), but if you're squatting and deadlifting on the same day - it puts a ton of pressure on your back and spine.

If you're a beginner or potentially have back issues of any kind - it can become quite problematic. I talked with a noted orthopedic surgeon about this, and he definitely advised against it for anyone who's not a seasoned lifter or professional athlete. It can really fuck your back up. As it did in my case.
 
EviLore

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Timedog said:
What do you guys think of this? I was trying to taper down from a shitty carb loaded American diet to full keto, but maybe I won't go that far.
Click to expand...

That's a pretty rigorous study.

We can strike down the notion that your body's processes are appreciably less efficient on keto, then, and it's very interesting that satiety levels were comparable for both diets. The scientists are linking that to protein levels for each respective plan being the same:

The greater success of LC diets than of the conventional low-fat HC diet with respect to weight loss has been attributed to the maintenance of previous REE during active weight loss and to reduced hunger (17), but it is unclear whether these factors are related to dietary carbohydrate restriction or to increased dietary protein. Weight-adjusted REE increased in both diet groups over the 6-wk trial, but blood β-hydroxybutyrate concentrations were not correlated with REE (r = −0.014, P = 0.921), which indicates that the protein content of the diet, rather than the severity of the carbohydrate restriction, likely contributed to the elevations in REE.
Click to expand...

So it really could just be the emphasis on protein in a keto diet (and complete lack of sugar interfering) that is netting you the all-important satiety factors. Would totally make sense to me based on my personal experiences and having had success on several different diet structures, with the constants being high protein, high fiber, low sugar.
 
EviLore

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Srsly said:
1) they assessed body composition using bioelectrical impedence, which is fairly innacurate, especially with changes in hydration -- the keto group should hold less water.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I noticed that as well. Considering the lengths they went to in other areas of the study, that seemed lazy.
 
B

blackflag

Member
Timedog said:
What do you guys think of this? I was trying to taper down from a shitty carb loaded American diet to full keto, but maybe I won't go that far.
Click to expand...

If you are cutting it's an amazing diet for maintaining muscle during a cut and losing weight fast. In fact, once you get used to it, it isn't hard to maintain. The first few weeks though can be rough.

I'm going to try cutting without it this time. Just going to cycle carbs. Like 3 or 4 extremely low days, 2 medium days and 1 high day (deadlift day)
 
Z

ZaCH3000

Member
Timedog said:
What do you guys think of this? I was trying to taper down from a shitty carb loaded American diet to full keto, but maybe I won't go that far.
Click to expand...

The best advice I can give you is to eat efficiently. Metabolic efficiency is different from person to person so I won't lecture you on that. You know your own body better than anyone else.

Think about your eating habits, when and what you are eating. Write it down if you have to. Furthermore, continue your research. Mix multiple elements from different diets into a unique diet that caters to your body for maximum results. It took me years of research and experimentation to understand my body's nutritional and energy needs. I'm constantly learning new things and adapting to new dietary methods, however nothing is drastic.

Back to metabolic efficiency for a minute. There are a few components to it that are principles. Don't eat any more than you need to, portion size should be relative to your goals, be nutrition conscious, and most importantly stimulate your metabolism by eating 6-8 meals a day.

I eat roughly a 1000 calories per day, walk approximately 4 miles for exercise and my goal is to maintain 145lbs (my build looks 165lb for my height). The discipline required to divide a normal "American" portion of pasta and gravy into three is insane. My snacks are carrots and pretzels plus a ton of water and bananas when I can afford them :lol. It works for me, although I would recommend a greater variety.

Hope this helps.
 
B

bjb

Banned
ZaCH3000 said:
The best advice I can give you is to eat efficiently. Metabolic efficiency is different from person to person so I won't lecture you on that. You know your own body better than anyone else.

Think about your eating habits, when and what you are eating. Write it down if you have to. Furthermore, continue your research. Mix multiple elements from different diets into a unique diet that caters to your body for maximum results. It took me years of research and experimentation to understand my body's nutritional and energy needs. I'm constantly learning new things and adapting to new dietary methods, however nothing is drastic.

Back to metabolic efficiency for a minute. There are a few components to it that are principles. Don't eat any more than you need to, portion size should be relative to your goals, be nutrition conscious, and most importantly stimulate your metabolism by eating 6-8 meals a day.

I eat roughly a 1000 calories per day, walk approximately 4 miles for exercise and my goal is to maintain 145lbs (my build looks 165lb for my height). The discipline required to divide a normal "American" portion of pasta and gravy into three is insane. My snacks are carrots and pretzels plus a ton of water and bananas when I can afford them :lol. It works for me, although I would recommend a greater variety.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

145 lbs? Jesus man how tall are you?
 
C

cryptic

Member
This is information most people here need to pay more attention to and in bodybuilding/power lifting in general.

http://180degreehealth.com/2013/03/8-badass-ways-to-get-healthy
1) Stop paying attention to the small details of food, and put more focus on how your body works. Who cares how many B vitamins or antioxidants are in a food if you feel miserable eating the way you’re eating, have lost your sex drive, feel depressed or anxious, aren’t menstruating, haven’t crapped in a week, and feel like sleeping all day? Food is powerful medicine when you know how to use it. It is also powerful poison when you continue to follow some guru’s perverse, puritanical rabbit food diet despite obvious signs it is wrecking your body. Most people feel better when they just eat what they want without feeling guilty about it or analyzing it to death. And they look better too, in terms of body fat levels. Here are 40 or so studies on that, in case you think I pulled that one out of my ass. 1) Stop paying attention to the small details of food, and put more focus on how your body works. Who cares how many B vitamins or antioxidants are in a food if you feel miserable eating the way you’re eating, have lost your sex drive, feel depressed or anxious, aren’t menstruating, haven’t crapped in a week, and feel like sleeping all day? Food is powerful medicine when you know how to use it. It is also powerful poison when you continue to follow some guru’s perverse, puritanical rabbit food diet despite obvious signs it is wrecking your body. Most people feel better when they just eat what they want without feeling guilty about it or analyzing it to death. And they look better too, in terms of body fat levels. Here are 40 or so studies on that, in case you think I pulled that one out of my ass. http://www.intuitiveeating.org/content/studies

2) Eat more food, and don’t restrict fats, carbohydrates, protein, meat, grains, sugars, or any other common dietary piñata. This stifles the production of stress hormones (most diseases can be traced back to an excess production of stress chemicals in the body), and in turn will make you warm, horny, happy, energetic, and more capable of increasing strength, muscle mass, speed, and power when you exercise – just to name a few benefits. This literally will raise your body temperature and metabolism, and any number of health problems related to a suppressed metabolic rate can improve. Dr. Mark Starr, author of a book on this very subject, has a chapter on symptoms of a low metabolism that is 85 pages long. That says a lot about the different systems of the body that are affected by poor cellular energy production/low metabolism. I have helped thousands of people from all over the world to achieve this simply by NOT dieting, getting plenty of sleep, and otherwise not being a self-deprecating idiot. http://180degreehealth.com/180-degree-health-testimonials
Click to expand...
 
C

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
Progress! Weighed 185 this morning and maxed at 350 for bench. Also did 305x4 for my finishing set.

Carry on.....
 
C

cuevas. PhD.

Member
SeanR1221 said:
I did SL for a year, had to deload once after I got in a car accident and my car was totaled. Also got sloppy towards the end. I started Coan's peaking cycle for 10 weeks ago and I'm stronger than I've ever been.

My current stats are

Deadlift 315x4 (going for 350x1 in 4 weeks)
Squat 245x5 (was supposed to top out at 265x1 in 4 weeks but I pushed out a 275x1 last workout so who knows where I'll end!)
Bench 195x4 (should top out at 205 tomorrow then reset)
Click to expand...

Damn nice man :_)

Keep at it!
 
I

Imm0rt4l

Member
Cooter said:
Progress! Weighed 185 this morning and maxed at 350 for bench. Also did 305x4 for my finishing set.

Carry on.....
Click to expand...



Respect.



I've never gone for max on bench. I should really change that. You are actually the weight that I aim for by the end of my cut, 15 lbs to go.
 
Zoe

Zoe

Member
ZaCH3000 said:
The best advice I can give you is to eat efficiently. Metabolic efficiency is different from person to person so I won't lecture you on that. You know your own body better than anyone else.

Think about your eating habits, when and what you are eating. Write it down if you have to. Furthermore, continue your research. Mix multiple elements from different diets into a unique diet that caters to your body for maximum results. It took me years of research and experimentation to understand my body's nutritional and energy needs. I'm constantly learning new things and adapting to new dietary methods, however nothing is drastic.

Back to metabolic efficiency for a minute. There are a few components to it that are principles. Don't eat any more than you need to, portion size should be relative to your goals, be nutrition conscious, and most importantly stimulate your metabolism by eating 6-8 meals a day.

I eat roughly a 1000 calories per day, walk approximately 4 miles for exercise and my goal is to maintain 145lbs (my build looks 165lb for my height). The discipline required to divide a normal "American" portion of pasta and gravy into three is insane. My snacks are carrots and pretzels plus a ton of water and bananas when I can afford them :lol. It works for me, although I would recommend a greater variety.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

1000 calories? That's not even recommended for diets, much less maintenance.
 
P

Petrie

Banned
ZaCH3000 said:
The best advice I can give you is to eat efficiently. Metabolic efficiency is different from person to person so I won't lecture you on that. You know your own body better than anyone else.

Think about your eating habits, when and what you are eating. Write it down if you have to. Furthermore, continue your research. Mix multiple elements from different diets into a unique diet that caters to your body for maximum results. It took me years of research and experimentation to understand my body's nutritional and energy needs. I'm constantly learning new things and adapting to new dietary methods, however nothing is drastic.

Back to metabolic efficiency for a minute. There are a few components to it that are principles. Don't eat any more than you need to, portion size should be relative to your goals, be nutrition conscious, and most importantly stimulate your metabolism by eating 6-8 meals a day.

I eat roughly a 1000 calories per day, walk approximately 4 miles for exercise and my goal is to maintain 145lbs (my build looks 165lb for my height). The discipline required to divide a normal "American" portion of pasta and gravy into three is insane. My snacks are carrots and pretzels plus a ton of water and bananas when I can afford them :lol. It works for me, although I would recommend a greater variety.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Nothing about this is good advice. Jesus the misinformation here, it's staggering.
 
C

cryptic

Member
Any recommendations for a belt for hanging weights when doing chinups?
I'm unfamiliar with what brands are good out there.

EDIT: Lol I just posted above a blog discussing the exact issues that 145 lb. man suffers from detailing how they're incurred, their effects, how to recover, and how to avoid them.
 
M

Mully

Member
Was able to head to the gym before going into work (now)

Numbers after third cycle of 5/3/1

OHP: 120 X 8
DL: 240 X 9
Squat: 255 X 8
Bench: 200 X 5

I feel like the reps are too high. They're not easy to get, but I mean all of these are supposed to be at least 1 rep sets. Should I add ten pounds to my upper body lifts and twenty to my lower body lifts next cycle to see what happens?
 
C

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
Imm0rt4l said:
Respect.



I've never gone for max on bench. I should really change that. You are actually the weight that I aim for by the end of my cut, 15 lbs to go.
Click to expand...

Thx. I actually got it up pretty easily but didn't have enough for 360 after. I usually don't max either but I'm making an effort to every chest day now. Two times body weight is my ultimate goal!
 
B

blackflag

Member
Petrie said:
Nothing about this is good advice. Jesus the misinformation here, it's staggering.
Click to expand...

I was thinking troll. I can't believe this is real. 6-8 meals a day. It's like broscience from the 80s. 1000 calories per day...is this real life? 145 goal physique...no thanks Jeff.
 
P

Petrie

Banned
Mully said:
Was able to head to the gym before going into work (now)

Numbers after third cycle of 5/3/1

OHP: 120 X 8
DL: 240 X 9
Squat: 255 X 8
Bench: 200 X 5

I feel like the reps are too high. They're not easy to get, but I mean all of these are supposed to be at least 1 rep sets. Should I add ten pounds to my upper body lifts and twenty to my lower body lifts next cycle to see what happens?
Click to expand...

Nope. Keep riding it out at the prescribed increments.

blackflag said:
I was thinking troll. I can't believe this is real. 6-8 meals a day. It's like broscience from the 80s. 1000 calories per day...is this real life? 145 goal physique...no thanks Jeff.
Click to expand...

I hope so. With that activity and those calorie levels, he is absolutely doing irreparable damage.
 
P

PBY

Banned
ZaCH3000 said:
The best advice I can give you is to eat efficiently. Metabolic efficiency is different from person to person so I won't lecture you on that. You know your own body better than anyone else.

Think about your eating habits, when and what you are eating. Write it down if you have to. Furthermore, continue your research. Mix multiple elements from different diets into a unique diet that caters to your body for maximum results. It took me years of research and experimentation to understand my body's nutritional and energy needs. I'm constantly learning new things and adapting to new dietary methods, however nothing is drastic.

Back to metabolic efficiency for a minute. There are a few components to it that are principles. Don't eat any more than you need to, portion size should be relative to your goals, be nutrition conscious, and most importantly stimulate your metabolism by eating 6-8 meals a day.

I eat roughly a 1000 calories per day, walk approximately 4 miles for exercise and my goal is to maintain 145lbs (my build looks 165lb for my height). The discipline required to divide a normal "American" portion of pasta and gravy into three is insane. My snacks are carrots and pretzels plus a ton of water and bananas when I can afford them :lol. It works for me, although I would recommend a greater variety.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
honestly... this sounds terrible.
 
S

SaskBoy

Member
Mully said:
Was able to head to the gym before going into work (now)

Numbers after third cycle of 5/3/1

OHP: 120 X 8
DL: 240 X 9
Squat: 255 X 8
Bench: 200 X 5

I feel like the reps are too high. They're not easy to get, but I mean all of these are supposed to be at least 1 rep sets. Should I add ten pounds to my upper body lifts and twenty to my lower body lifts next cycle to see what happens?
Click to expand...

I'm guessing your reps are high because you could've got more out of a linear progression? I'd just keep at what you're doing now. Beast mode.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Obesity, weight loss and diabetes II
Cringe 2
97
7K
ForAcademicPurposes replied
I got abs tattooed on my stomach to be ‘summer ready’
36
3K
diffusionx replied
Ridley Scott interview - sharks in the colosseum, Maximus returning from the afterlife to kill Jesus Christ, asleep at the wheel for Prometheus
45
3K
dem replied
Diabetes-gaf - Warnings and Encouragement
2
67
5K
ChazAshley replied
Xbox Wire - Hands On: Replaced is a Stylish Cyberpunk Platformer with an ’80s Cinematic Edge
Opinion
24
2K
adamsapple replied
Top Bottom