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[The Adder]

If you read anything about the drafting of the constitution and the founding of the United States. You would know that Slavery was an institution of Britain's colonialism. That it was so culturally entrenched in the culture, that the founding fathers decided that it was not the time to tackle the problem of enslavement.

Eventually the topic came up, and it was once again shelved. Not until Douglas Adams reinvigorated the debate.

But to say it wasn't trying to solve a particular class of oppression is just wrong. Many of the founding fathers knew slavery should be dismantled as well.

"Slavery's bad, but we're going to keep our slaves, and by 'we' I don't mean the country, I mean many of us talking about this issue right now personally, and do nothing to solve the problem in the long run."

"Also, we're going to go wipe out a bunch of the indigenous people because fuck them."

 

[……forgetit]

So yeah........she was kicked out of the military for posing for playboy in uniform...............not sure what to say about that.

 

[Beloved]

If you read anything about the drafting of the constitution and the founding of the United States. You would know that Slavery was an institution of Britain's colonialism. That it was so culturally entrenched in the culture, that the founding fathers decided that it was not the time to tackle the problem of enslavement.

Eventually the topic came up, and it was once again shelved. Not until Douglas Adams reinvigorated the debate.

But to say it wasn't trying to solve a particular class of oppression is just wrong. Many of the founding fathers knew slavery should be dismantled as well.

The history of oppression by the US of various groups is extensive. Because some dudes 200+ years ago discussed slavery and decided to "shelve it" doesn't do anything to add to or support your point whatsoever.

Knowing something is wrong and choosing to not do anything about it is what oppression is all about - people capable of bringing about change but clinging to the current system that also happens to benefit them under the guise that it's just "not the right time" is not something to brag about.

 

[Armaros]

I have 9 years in the military. I fully support anyone to do whatever they want to the flag. Its not my job as a military member to stop a protest by a US citizen.

I see that as opposed to my role in the military. I may not agree with them or what they are protesting on but its my job to defend their right to do so.

And we already went though this song and dance during the Bush years, and the ant-war protests.

 

[JJDinomite]

Disrespecting a country's flag is possibly the edgiest thing you could ever do at a protest. I'm okay with intervention.

 

[Armaros]

Disrespecting a country's flag is possibly the edgiest thing you could ever do at a protest. I'm okay with intervention.

Its also protected speech.

 

[pa22word]

. Because some dudes 200+ years ago discussed slavery and decided to "shelve it"

This is probably the most asinine summation of the United States Civil War that I've ever seen. Congrats?

 

[The Adder]

There's nothing in the language of the current U.S. constitution that limits which citizens are bestowed civil rights. In practice, it's a different story, and that is what we should be fighting to change.

Only took 188 years to theoretically get there!

This is probably the most asinine summation of the United States Civil War that I've ever seen. Congrats?

He's talking about the drafting of the constitution, holy shit!

 

[Wreck-It Ralph]

I don't understand why people treat the US flag like it's a goddamn religious symbol, like god himself is going to get angry and smite society if one person desecrates one flag.

It's a piece of cloth. It's not special.

Anyway, this reminds me of the Futurama episode where Zoidberg eats the Earth flag on Freedom Day.

 

[Camelthepope]

And we already went though this song and dance during the Bush years, and the ant-war protests.

Exactly, I support all protests at a base level. It doesn't matter if I do or do not agree with them. It is simply not my job to intervene.

 

[slit]

If you read anything about the drafting of the constitution and the founding of the United States. You would know that Slavery was an institution of Britain's colonialism. That it was so culturally entrenched in the culture, that the founding fathers decided that it was not the time to tackle the problem of enslavement.

Eventually the topic came up, and it was once again shelved. Not until Douglas Adams reinvigorated the debate.

But to say it wasn't trying to solve a particular class of oppression is just wrong. Many of the founding fathers knew slavery should be dismantled as well.

And yet it wasn't. You can belch out that ingrained cultural malarkey all you want because it not just about slavery. See the Manifest Destiny movement and compare it to Nazism since other than the way people worded the concepts because of it coming out of different eras there isn't much difference. While it's true people saw things differently then, a spade is still a spade.

 

[KissVibes]

Going from the video description, it sounds like the Michelle Manhart and a group of other white people explicitly set out to steal the flag "take action." I mean, if you're going to be openly antagonistic and set out to do stupid shit, you should be treated as such. Shit, at the end of the video she seems to be telling the gentleman wearing a vest to contact someone in the media, and it sounds like she had a specific person in mind already.

Walking on the flag is such a harmful protest. Maybe citizens wouldn't walk on the stars and stripes if they didn't feel that the government, for which it represents, was constantly failing them.

Edit: Oh man, this is the same Michelle Manhart that was demoted for appearing naked in Playboy with the flag and desecrating it? That's wonderful.

 

[Beloved]

Disrespecting a country's flag is possibly the edgiest thing you could ever do at a protest. I'm okay with intervention.

So in your view, disrespecting a symbol of a country is a bigger problem than interfering with a citizen's rights?

 

[Artorias]

National flags are not sacred. The police absolutely did the right thing.

It is adorable that veterans think they have the right to step in regarding cases like this though.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Disrespecting a country's flag is possibly the edgiest thing you could ever do at a protest. I'm okay with intervention.

Yeah, we can be thankful that the thief was apprehended for stealing the flag and infringing on people's rights. People could've gotten hurt.

 

[pa22word]

He's talking about the drafting of the constitution, holy shit!

Yeah, looking back, I read that post wrong.

Sorry. Threads like this tend to get a dude incensed. My bad =\

 

[slit]

There's nothing in the language of the current U.S. constitution that limits which citizens are bestowed civil rights. In practice, it's a different story, and that is what we should be fighting to change.

Yeah......so like the most important part of it, right?

 

[esms]

Disrespecting a country's flag is possibly the edgiest thing you could ever do at a protest. I'm okay with intervention.

Edgy speech is unprotected speech confirmed.

 

[Beloved]

This is probably the most asinine summation of the United States Civil War that I've ever seen. Congrats?

What? I was referring to the fact that someone else was referring to the founding fathers realizing that slavery was a problem but choosing not to deal with it.

Congrats?

He's talking about the drafting of the constitution, holy shit!

Thank you for your reading comprehension skills.

Also, I'm a "she".

 

[Korigama]

Desecrating a flag as a means to raise awareness of a serious issue sounds like a rather impotent gesture to me.

 

[The Adder]

What? I was referring to the fact that someone else was referring to the founding fathers realizing that slavery was a problem but choosing not to deal with it.

Congrats?



Thank you for your reading comprehension skills.

Also, I'm a "she".

Apologies.

 

[MWS Natural]

Only in Obama's America would a proud white woman get attacked by police for defending our flag....sad times we live in. Exactly why this country is going down the tubes fast.

 

[Phased]

While I don't agree with it, they are entirely within their right to do anything they want with the flag in the U.S. The Supreme Court decided the First Amendment covers non-speech acts like flag burning, and I strongly agree.

How we deal with people who say or do things we don't agree with, as long as they aren't breaking the law, says a lot about a society.

 

[Beloved]

Apologies.

It's all good.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Why get mad at peaceful anti oppression protests? if this was a protest that encourages oppression then that's something else. focus on what matters.

 

[injurai]

"Slavery's bad, but we're going to keep our slaves, and by 'we' I don't mean the country, I mean many of us talking about this issue right now personally, and do nothing to solve the problem in the long run."

"Also, we're going to go wipe out a bunch of the indigenous people because fuck them."

There was a mix of people at the founding of our Nation. There is a difference between saying what effectively happened on account of not taking action. Versus saying their was a unanimous founding explicitly laying out plans to oppress people as a goal and end game. The later is not true, but it's the rhetoric that people are trying to paint the entirety of our Nations founding under.

Also their were many different independent actors and parties that contributed to the eradication and/or displacement of the indigenous population. Once again that is i

The history of oppression by the US of various groups is extensive. Because some dudes 200+ years ago discussed slavery and decided to "shelve it" doesn't do anything to add to or support your point whatsoever.

Knowing something is wrong and choosing to not do anything about it is what oppression is all about - people capable of bringing about change but clinging to the current system that also happens to benefit them under the guise that it's just "not the right time" is not something to brag about.

In many ways they couldn't change things at the time. They had other concerns to worry abou as well. You act like everyone that was against slavery had the luxury to stick their neck out at every possible moment. They had countless of fronts they had to fight for. When I say they "shelved it" I say that sort of flippantly. Because it's not like they just threw up their arms and said not my problem. There was simply too much resistance by those who did want it. To found the nation under democracy they had to take on the burden of representing those who wished to keep in place the system of enslavement. Which mean working within the system. Which meant the fight for abolition was stretched out and couldn't be eradicated at the Nation's founding. It's extremely unfortunate that it couldn't be abolished at the Nation's founding, but because that failed to happen doesn't mean the nation was founded for that system. Not for everyone.

And yet it wasn't. You can belch out that ingrained cultural malarkey all you want because it not just about slavery. See the manifest destiny movement and compare it to Nazism since other than the way people worded the concepts because of it coming out of different eras there isn't much difference. While it's true people saw things differently then, a spade is still a spade.

Not everyone saw things the same, even amongst the founding father's all I'm saying is that it's a fallacious claim to say the nation wasn't founded in order to take steps away from many forms of oppression. At that time their were many forms still in contention. Manifest Destiny is actually more of a concept that formed in the 19th Century. You can't say that was a primary ideological end game for the founders. If you could you couldn't say the nation was explicitly founded for it. Nor can you say all the founders sought that out.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Only in Obama's America would a proud white woman get attacked by police for defending our flag....sad times we live in. Exactly why this country is going down the tubes fast.

The sad part is, I know you are being sarcastic but there is a group of people out there that actually believe this shit...like for really real.

 

[Slayven]

I think they're the same person, yes.

Can't be the same cause that lady posed nude with USA Flag, that would be hypocrisy

 

[slit]

Not everyone saw things the same, even amongst the founding father's all I'm saying is that it's a fallacious claim to say the nation wasn't founded in order to take steps away from many forms of oppression. At that time their were many forms still in contention. Manifest Destiny is actually more of a concept that formed in the 19th Century. You can't say that was a primary ideological end game for the founders. If you could you couldn't say the nation was explicitly founded for it. Nor can you say all the founders sought that out.

I could could take some of the most vile governments/movements of any time and find slivers of that so it means nothing as it pertains to the actual oppression taking place at the time. Also, no kidding people didn't see things the same, the point of the Manifest Destiny comparison is that it was a very popular belief even if it was after the country was founded. It was responsible for millions upon millions of deaths. It's not like it was some offbeat notion by a band of extremists. To say well the founding fathers took away one form of oppression but then allowed it to simply shift to another group is not what I call taking away oppression AT ALL!

 

[……forgetit]

Can't be the same cause that lady posed nude with USA Flag, that would be hypocrisy

After research I can confirm that they are the same person. Same face in the playboy shots and the Wikipedia photo is her old Facebook profile pick.

 

[Bladenic]

Edit: never mind, this was apparently playboy girl, oh well

 

[zeemumu]

Good for the Air Force girl. I don't respect anyone that walks on the flag.

But at the same time, you can't just steal someone else's flag. They were in the right to arrest her.

 

[Slayven]

After research I can confirm that they are the same person. Same face in the playboy shots and the Wikipedia photo is her old Facebook profile pick.

Well I am shocked.

ITT: people who've never held a weapon or lifted a finger in their lives for anything but a cheeto mocking someone who potentially risked her life to defend her country by saying it's bullshit and mocking veterans.

Good stuff.

We got a badass here.

Putting on a uniform doesn't make you better then common man

 

[esms]

ITT: people who've never held a weapon or lifted a finger in their lives for anything but a cheeto mocking someone who potentially risked her life to defend her country by saying it's bullshit and mocking veterans.

Good stuff.

Stop while you're ahead.

 

[slit]

ITT: people who've never held a weapon or lifted a finger in their lives for anything but a cheeto mocking someone who potentially risked her life to defend her country by saying it's bullshit and mocking veterans.

Good stuff.

Please explain how the protesters in that video were mocking her.

She interrupted their protest or do you not get that?

 

[Archer]

Good for the Air Force girl. I don't respect anyone that walks on the flag.

Respect to her. Fuck those tools.

 

[23qwerty]

ITT: people who've never held a weapon or lifted a finger in their lives for anything but a cheeto mocking someone who potentially risked her life to defend her country by saying it's bullshit and mocking veterans.

Good stuff.

When was the last time a veteran ever actually defended America? 1812?

Respect to her. Fuck those tools.

Why are Americans so fucking weird
It's just a flag

Pearl Harbor actually

Arguably I suppose

 

[……forgetit]

When was the last time a veteran ever actually defended America? 1812?



Why are Americans so fucking weird
It's just a flag

Pearl Harbor actually

 

[Camelthepope]

Respect to her. Fuck those tools.

Yeah fuck those guys being american and voicing their opinions. People should only protest things you want right?

(9 year military veteran)

 

[Africanus]

Edit: never mind, this was apparently playboy girl, oh well

So now that more light has been shed on the woman's hypocrisy, you turn away from your insults?

Respect to her. Fuck those tools.

There is nothing respectful about thievery.

 

[slit]

Respect to her. Fuck those tools.

Yeah, how dare they use their first amendment rights. The nerve of some people.

 

[Camelthepope]

Yeah, how dare they use their first amendment rights. The nerve of some people.

I know right!

 

[injurai]

I could could take some of the most vile governments/movements of any time and find slivers of that so it means nothing as it pertains to the actual oppression taking place at the time. Also, no kidding people didn't see things the same, the point of the Manifest Destiny comparison is that it was a very popular belief even if it was after the country was founded. It was responsible for millions upon millions of deaths. It's not like it was some offbeat notion by a band of extremists. To say well the founding fathers took away one form of oppression but then allowed it to simply shift to another group is not what I call taking away oppression AT ALL!

So you hang the sins of the next generation on the lack of foresight from the former. What sort of contrived claim are you trying to make. I'm trying to argue that we attribute fault where it ought to be attributed. That includes talking with some nuance and tact with the parties involved, what each party sought to achieve. What was was achievable at those times. There is a difference between oppression and genocide being systematic problems that the nation has inherited and part of the population seeks to uphold. Versus saying the nation was founded on the principles, to achieve those principles. It really should be hard to ask for less tactless hyperbole at expressing the deep rooted problems of our nation. Instead of resorting to a reactionary take.

 

[……forgetit]

After talking to some friends who actually debated the protestors, turns out the protestors were black supremisits who were advocating for armed insurrection of the united states, this story just keeps getting better.

 

[esms]

Respect to her. Fuck those tools.

I feel you man. I hate those tools that take advantage of their political freedoms.

 

[entremet]

Flag burnings are very controversial, so not surprised at the reactions.

Personally, I can't stand it, but I don't want it banned. It's protected speech.

Nor should it be obstructed. The Air Force cadet was wrong.

Coming from an immigrant family, I'm very grateful for the opportunities of this country. It's definitely far from perfect and has its problem, though.

 

[PeskyToaster]

Hold a counter protest and stomp on their favorite things.

I think the federal government has really advanced the cause of black people. Historically it was the state/local governments that were the primary opponents of civil rights. At least that's how I've seen it.

 

[Camelthepope]

After talking to some friends who actually debated the protestors, turns out the protestors were black supremisits who were advocating for armed insurrection of the united states, this story just keeps getting better.

And that doesn't matter, they are free to protest for whatever dumb stuff they want. Its my job to allow them to do so.

 

[……forgetit]

Hold a counter protest and stomp on their favorite things.

I think the federal government has really advanced the cause of black people. Historically it was the state/local governments that were the primary opponents of civil rights. At least that's how I've seen it.

Their platform was that if the flag stands for freedom, then why weren't people of African decent free when it was made, they had a point there, but I can't agree with flag desicration, but I also can't agree with theft or attempting to silence protestors. My point is I hate everyone involved.

 

[injurai]

After talking to some friends who actually debated the protestors, turns out the protestors were black supremisits who were advocating for armed insurrection of the united states, this story just keeps getting better.

Fighting wrongs with wrongs and expecting a right to pop up somewhere.