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[Tenebrous]

Top 5 fighters (not just boxers)

1 - Fedor Emelianenko
2 - Muhammad Ali
3 - Marvin Harper
4 - Anderson Silva
5 - Sugar Ray Robinson

Most entertaining to watch

1 - Chan Sung Jung (The Korean Zombie)
2 - Conor McGregor
3 - Anderson Silva
4 - Muhammad Ali
5 - Wanderlei Silva

Impossible to do a top five fighters list, I wouldn't even try it. Doing a top five in a single sport is difficult enough, but all combat sports? Damn.

 

[Tater Tot]

Heres the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytrCPuUm_fk

He was only working with a list of 10 fighters that were preselected for him.

 

[Hands of Stone]

Top 5 fighters (not just boxers)

1 - Fedor Emelianenko
2 - Muhammad Ali
3 - Marvin Hagler
4 - Anderson Silva
5 - Sugar Ray Robinson

Most entertaining to watch

1 - Chan Sung Jung (The Korean Zombie)
2 - Conor McGregor
3 - Anderson Silva
4 - Muhammad Ali
5 - Wanderlei Silva

Which fights would you say are Fedor and Wanderlei's top performances are?

 

[Hands of Stone]

Heres the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytrCPuUm_fk

He was only working with a list of 10 fighters that were preselected for him.

I do like how he he gave Duran props for the first fight. Seems like so many remember the No Mas fight and hand wave the better victory. When both were at their best, Duran won.

 

[manfestival]

I agree with floyd on this one. Now I shall put my hater blockers on

Top 5 fighters (not just boxers)

1 - Fedor Emelianenko
2 - Muhammad Ali
3 - Marvin Hagler
4 - Anderson Silva
5 - Sugar Ray Robinson

Most entertaining to watch

1 - Chan Sung Jung (The Korean Zombie)
2 - Conor McGregor
3 - Anderson Silva
4 - Muhammad Ali
5 - Wanderlei Silva

I would replace wanderlei with diego sanchez to be honest.

 

[Lightning Count]

Which fights would you say are Fedor and Wanderlei's top performances are?

Fedor

Pride 25 and Shockwave 2004 - his two full fights with Big Nog, the first fight he totally shut down Nogueira's guard and smashed him with ground and pound. In their third fight he did the opposite and kept the fight mostly standing, his strikes were on point and he used some beauty upper body wrestling and judo to score takedowns.

His fight with Cro Cop is a clinic in how to stifle a dangerous kicker through forward movement. He never let him get established and dominated the fight.

For Wanderlei, I would say Pride 28, his second fight with Rampage, he survived a round one knockdown to win via brutal knockout in round two, sending Rampage through the ropes out cold after knocking him out with knees. His UFC 139 fight with Cung Le is also very entertaining.

 

[Lightning Count]

I agree with floyd on this one. Now I shall put my hater blockers on




I would replace wanderlei with diego sanchez to be honest.

Diego is insanely tough and I'm pretty sure that he's crazy, but he's not as exciting as Wanderlei.

 

[Hands of Stone]

Fedor

Pride 25 and Shockwave 2004 - his two full fights with Big Nog, the first fight he totally shut down Nogueira's guard and smashed him with ground and pound. In their third fight he did the opposite and kept the fight mostly standing, his strikes were on point and he used some beauty upper body wrestling and judo to score takedowns.

His fight with Cro Cop is a clinic in how to stifle a dangerous kicker through forward movement. He never let him get established and dominated the fight.

For Wanderlei, I would say Pride 28, his second fight with Rampage, he survived a round one knockdown to win via brutal knockout in round two, sending Rampage through the ropes out cold after knocking him out with knees. His UFC 139 fight with Cung Le is also very entertaining.

Nice. I don't follow MMA as much as I do boxing but I did like watching Wanderlei at times. Would you say he's one of the greatest MW's in MMA history? Or was he just a top champion?

Always heard Fedor was the GOAT, a shame how the latter part of his career went. Just goes to show even the best can be taken out.

 

[bionic77]

Prince Naseem VS Mayweather would've been a very interesting fight. Like a snake versus a mongoose.

If Mayweather is doing what he wants it is not going to be an interesting fight. The fighters have to take chances for the fight to be interesting and I just don't see it. Hard to see the Prince penetrating Mayweathers defenses. And Mayweather is too disciplined to take a chance and open himself up.

As someone else said he would just put on a clinic and get the clear decision.

Assuming Floyd polishes off this last bum and finishes undefeated has anyone else ever gotten out of boxing with as little damager as Floyd has had? Usually to have the kind of career he had you would punch drunk as fuck by the end.

 

[Azih]

WTF? He didn't mock Ali's Parkinson's. He was a Christian, Christians believe God is responsible for everything, and everything happens for a reason. Not an example of Frazier being a bad/unkind man IMO.

Huh? Ali stopped the trash after the final bell rung of the third fight. Frazier never did.

http://www.si.com/vault/1996/09/30/...muhammad-ali-but-this-time-its-a-war-of-words

"Truth is, I'd like to rumble with that sucker again--beat him up piece by piece and mail him back to Jesus.... Now people ask me if I feel bad for him, now that things aren't going so well for him. Nope. I don't. Fact is, I don't give a damn. They want me to love him, but I'll open up the graveyard and bury his ass when the Lord chooses to take him."

"It would have been a good thing if he would have lit the torch and fallen in. If I had the chance, I would have pushed him in."

""He's got Joe Frazier-itis," Frazier said of Ali one day recently, flexing his left arm. "He's got left-hook-itis.""

And then at the end:

A benumbed and exhausted Ali, his lips scraped raw, lay on a cot in his locker room in Manila and summoned Marvis Frazier, Joe's 15-year-old son, to his side. "Tell your dad the things I said I really didn't mean," Ali said.

Marvis reported back to his father. "He should come to me, son," Joe told him. "He should say it to my face."

Back in the States, Ali called Lewis and asked him for Frazier's private number. Ali told Lewis that he wanted to apologize to Frazier for some of the things he had said. Lewis called Frazier, but, he says, Frazier told him, "Don't give it to him."

***

A crowd of people were at Johnny Tocco's Gym for a morning shoot when Frazier started in on Ali, who was already debilitated by Parkinson's. "Look at Ali," Frazier said. "Look what's happened to him. All your talkin', man. I'm faster than you are now. You're damaged goods."

 

[Ryck]

Tyson in his prime was unbeatable.


No one could have beat the man, no way.


It's just too bad his prime was so short due to fame,drugs, himself, Robin Givins etc.


edit: wow Frazier is an asshole.

 

[Hands of Stone]

If Mayweather is doing what he wants it is not going to be an interesting fight. The fighters have to take chances for the fight to be interesting and I just don't see it. Hard to see the Prince penetrating Mayweathers defenses. And Mayweather is too disciplined to take a chance and open himself up.

As someone else said he would just put on a clinic and get the clear decision.

Assuming Floyd polishes off this last bum and finishes undefeated has anyone else ever gotten out of boxing with as little damager as Floyd has had? Usually to have the kind of career he had you would punch drunk as fuck by the end.

Foreman
Chuvalo
LaMotta
Duran
Chavez

The first 3 were not defensive specialists in the slightest and faced an ungodly amount of punchers yet have walked away from boxing in fantastic condition.

Duran and Chavez, both whom had severely underrated defense in their prime, have also pretty much been fine after boxing even with 100+ bouts.

With boxing (or any heavy contact sport) it's a bit of the luck of the draw. The two defensive wizards in Wilfred Benitez and Whitaker didn't come out unscathed, with the former having a severe case of pugilistic dementia and the latter slurring his words quite a bit.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Frazier was obviously bitter and held on to that bitterness in a very stubborn way, but that doesn't excuse the shit Ali said, which started all of this. Like I said I could see him trying to cop pleas and say he was just saying it to sell the fight pissing off Frazier even more.


Ali being a dick to someone that helped him out because he's trying to hype up a fight=okay yet
Frazier being a dick to someone who he feels wronged him deeply because he's an angry, bitter old man=inexcusable? Sorry I don't see it that way.

 

[Garlador]

Tyson in his prime was unbeatable.

No one could have beat the man, no way.

It's just too bad his prime was so short due to fame,drugs, himself, Robin Givins etc.

And one righteous knockout from Buster Douglas.

I still remember that. Holy cow, nobody saw that one coming. Still one of the greatest upsets in sports history.

 

[Ryck]

And one righteous knockout from Buster Douglas.

I still remember that. Holy cow, nobody saw that one coming. Still one of the greatest upsets in sports history.

Yeah I remember that too, I was shocked. But yeah he was a shell of himself already in that fight.

 

[kinggroin]

To be fair Mike made the heavyweights look weak. He got rid of undefeated olympic gold medalist Biggs, undefeated linear HW champ Michael Spinks and hes the first man ever to knock out Larry Holmes. There are a handful of fighters that were regarded as quality opponents during that era which isnt Tysons fault.

By the time he was scheduled to fight the top guys from the 90's he was a different person and fighter altogether.

My man, you just said what I did. Down to the fighters I gave him credit for, lol

 

[The Beard]

Huh? Ali stopped the trash after the final bell rung of the third fight. Frazier never did.

http://www.si.com/vault/1996/09/30/...muhammad-ali-but-this-time-its-a-war-of-words



And then at the end:

Ali started it all. Watch the documentary. Ali wasn't just trash talking. He was spewing some hateful, racist, disgusting shit. You can't blame Frazier for never forgiving Ali.

Just imagine if one of your coworkers belittled you, said hateful shit on a daily basis, made fun of your appearance, and made up lies about you.

Then when you guys retire he's like, "Hey bro, I just did it for the Lulz. Wanna be friends now?"

 

[Azih]

Ali started it all. Watch the documentary. Ali wasn't just trash talking. He was spewing some hateful, racist, disgusting shit. You can't blame Frazier for never forgiving Ali.

Yes I can.

I agree that what Ali did to Frazier was beyond the pale. It was absolutely not okay how far he took it. Ali should have realized that calling Liston a bear was not nearly the same thing as calling Frazier a gorilla. But it was obvious to everyone except Smokin Joe that it was a switch Ali threw on during the pre fight and turned it off after the fight was over.

Here's Ali after each of the fights.

A lot of great fighters get whipped. No one can hit as hard as Frazier. I'm satisfied with the fight even though I lost. I know I lost to a great champion, but maybe another time when both of us had been fighting regularly, the result would have been different. I don't know, but maybe.

Joe Frazier's a nice fella, he's just doing a job. The bad talk wasn't serious, just part of the buildup to the fight. The fight was serious, though. Joe spoke to me once or twice in the middle, told me I was burned out, that I'd have to quit dancing now. I told him I was gonna dance all night.

I always bring out the best in the men I fight, but Joe Frazier, I'll tell the world right now, brings out the best in me. I'm gonna tell ya, that's one helluva man, and God bless him.

And Joe?

If we were twins in the belly of our mama, I'd reach over and strangle him.

Just imagine if one of your coworkers belittled you, said hateful shit on a daily basis, made fun of your appearance, and made up lies about you.

Then when you guys retire he's like, "Hey bro, I just did it for the Lulz. Wanna be friends now?"

That's not a reasonable analogy. If I was a wrestler, or a MMA fighter, or did rap battles, or was a boxer, then I would absolutely expect that. It's the nature of the job. You have to hype the fight.

So yeah, I agree that Ali said some incredibly hateful shit, but you have to take into account how he behaved after the fights and his genuine remorse when he tried repeatedly to apologize.

The 'The bad talk wasn't serious' comment to me really shows that Ali misread Frazier. It was hype for Ali. It was deadly serious to Joe. So serious that he marinated in the hurt till his dying day.

 

[The Beard]

Yes I can.

I agree that what Ali did to Frazier was beyond the pale. It was absolutely not okay how far he took it. Ali should have realized that calling Liston a bear was not nearly the same thing as calling Frazier a gorilla. But it was obvious to everyone except Smokin Joe that it was a switch Ali threw on during the pre fight and turned it off after the fight was over.

Here's Ali after each of the fights.







And Joe?




That's not a reasonable analogy. If I was a wrestler, or a MMA fighter, or did rap battles, or was a boxer, then I would absolutely expect that. It's the nature of the job. You have to hype the fight.

So yeah, I agree that Ali said some incredibly hateful shit, but you have to take into account how he behaved after the fights and his genuine remorse when he tried repeatedly to apologize.

The 'The bad talk wasn't serious' comment to me really shows that Ali misread Frazier. It was hype for Ali. It was deadly serious to Joe. So serious that he marinated in the hurt till his dying day.

You can't say hateful things and treat someone who personally helped you out like a piece of dog shit, then apologize and expect everything to be swept under the rug. I would've taken it to my grave just like Frazier did. I don't give a shit if Ali was "hyping" the fight, because there are ways to do that without making personal, racist, and hateful attacks that have nothing to do with boxing.

Ali showed his true colors. He was an arrogant, and hateful asshole. "I'm sorry" doesn't change anything. He made his bed.

 

[Azih]

You can't say hateful things and treat someone who personally helped you out like a piece of dog shit, then apologize and expect everything to be swept under the rug. I would've taken it to my grave just like Frazier did. I don't give a shit if Ali was "hyping" the fight, because there are ways to do that without making personal, racist, and hateful attacks that have nothing to do with boxing.

Ali showed his true colors. He was an arrogant, and hateful asshole. "I'm sorry" doesn't change anything. He made his bed.

You would have publicly mocked and denigrated someone with Parkinsons like Joe did? You would have refused to speak to someone trying to apologize? You would have ignored what the guy said after the fight actually ended? And again, they weren't in an office job. They were in boxing. With all the dumb showmanship that involves.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Yes I can.

I agree that what Ali did to Frazier was beyond the pale. It was absolutely not okay how far he took it. Ali should have realized that calling Liston a bear was not nearly the same thing as calling Frazier a gorilla. But it was obvious to everyone except Smokin Joe that it was a switch Ali threw on during the pre fight and turned it off after the fight was over.

Here's Ali after each of the fights.







And Joe?




That's not a reasonable analogy. If I was a wrestler, or a MMA fighter, or did rap battles, or was a boxer, then I would absolutely expect that. It's the nature of the job. You have to hype the fight.

So yeah, I agree that Ali said some incredibly hateful shit, but you have to take into account how he behaved after the fights and his genuine remorse when he tried repeatedly to apologize.

The 'The bad talk wasn't serious' comment to me really shows that Ali misread Frazier. It was hype for Ali. It was deadly serious to Joe. So serious that he marinated in the hurt till his dying day.

You have to understand that you aren't entitled to have your apology accepted. That's the way those things work. Frazier was obviously deeply hurt by what Ali did and it made him bitter, stubborn and angry. I don't agree with the things he said about Ali's Parkinson's, but I understand why he was that angry about it. Both guys were wrong with what they did, I guess in a way I just have a little more sympathy for Frazier because he did I it out of a genuine personal anger and a reaction to someone he thought was a friend, and not to sell tickets to a fight.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Frazier still taking shots long after that shit, and during Ali's Parkinson's phase is definitely some garbage.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Frazier still taking shots is definitely some garbage.

Frazier's been dead for 4 years.

 

[Frog-fu]

Mayweather by a clear, clear decision. Hamed was a solid fighter with great power and some decent combinations but left himself open way too often which Floyd would exploit. If you think the Barrera beatdown was bad, I couldn't think how'd much worse this bout would be.

If Mayweather is doing what he wants it is not going to be an interesting fight. The fighters have to take chances for the fight to be interesting and I just don't see it. Hard to see the Prince penetrating Mayweathers defenses. And Mayweather is too disciplined to take a chance and open himself up.

As someone else said he would just put on a clinic and get the clear decision.

Assuming Floyd polishes off this last bum and finishes undefeated has anyone else ever gotten out of boxing with as little damager as Floyd has had? Usually to have the kind of career he had you would punch drunk as fuck by the end.

I don't doubt Mayweather would've won, but how comfortably, now that's something I would have liked to see for myself.

No one is as masterful in defence as Mayweather, but Prince Naseem possessed great offence, defense and, while not as good, was great at countering opponents - but most importantly, Naseem brought a psychological element to his bouts I don't think any of Mayweather's opponents ever possessed and I think may have given him an edge.