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Football Thread 2011/12 |OT8| Made it to the Championship play-offs

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C

Carbonox

Member
Slizz said:
iD3sMzg2refap.gif
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I'd let this girl wee in my mouth. Bet it'd taste like Haribo as well.

Such a stunning gal.
 
M

Moobabe

Member
Jason Raize '75 - '04 said:
We beat 2-1 in the first leg and lost the other. We lost to the better team. It doesn't matter how you play, Barca will always be favourites. But at least we deserved our victory rather by the way we played. Ultimately, I'm a football fan who follows a football team. I want that football team to play football, it's mindblowing logic, I know, but that's how I feel.

Trying to use the long ball and park the coach bus in front of the goal for two legs, which is what Chelsea will do, is an embarrassment to the sport because you indirectly admit you will not compete against your opponent by playing the ball on the grass (which is what the sport is about), so you'll try to score with one pass from the back.

At least try to play first for crying out loud. Don't sell yourself short
Click to expand...

Inter defeating Barcelona was the finest defensive performance I have ever seen. Football is about more than playing 5 yard passes and getting an 80% completion rate. Look at Swansea against Spurs - they can pass the ball and try and play the "beautiful game" all they want - they were distinctly second best and they fell down to tactics, another important part of the game.

And don't take the high road with me - not every team has the players to play the "correct" way - nor should every team. That's the reason our league is so fantastic - it accommodates all kinds of footballing styles - if everyone played the exact same way it'd come down to who could buy the best players and our league would look like La Liga.

And the sport is "about" scoring more goals than your opposition and winning the game.
 
Z

Zabojnik

Member
Frank the Great said:
wouldn't surprise me either . . . the head of milan lab is a chiropractor :(

we should steal some of juve's fitness people . . . your team's fitness is admirable. if i was in a trolling mood i would say that that is the only admirable thing about your team, but i'm not. ;)
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Trolling mood, but also because you know it isn't true. :p As far as fitness and injuries go I used to believe it all came down mostly to general stress and bad luck, but seeing how incredibly well we're doing this year ... Conte's staff must be doing something right. With Ranieri we shattered every muscular injury record there was and everybody was blaming Vinovo, our training center, where apparently the humidity high. The difference in form and player sanity is just incredible.
 
N

Noirulus

Member
Jason Raize '75 - '04 said:
Trying to use the long ball and park the coach bus in front of the goal for two legs, which is what Chelsea will do, is an embarrassment to the sport because you indirectly admit you will not compete against your opponent by playing the ball on the grass (which is what the sport is about), so you'll try to score with one pass from the back.
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So Chelsea should play to the strengths of its opposition? That's a surefire way to lose really quick.
 
C

Clegg

Member
I'm glad I didn't post in this thread earlier.

The frothing and rage was something to behold. Madrid fans were especially guilty of this. Bitching and moaning about UEFA and UNICEF conspiracies. Fuck off with that, it's a load of nonsense.

I'd expect a bit more than that from rational beings. So Embarrassing.
 
Y

Yurt

il capo silenzioso
Zabojnik said:
Trolling mood, but also because you know it isn't true. :p As far as fitness and injuries go I used to believe it all came down mostly to general stress and bad luck, but seeing how incredibly well we're doing this year ... Conte's staff must be doing something right. With Ranieri we shattered every muscular injury record there was and everybody was blaming Vinovo, our training center, where apparently the humidity high. The difference in form and player sanity is just incredible.
Click to expand...

jdjVdgHAV4pHF.jpg
 
D

dschalter

Member
Clegg said:
I'm glad I didn't post in this thread earlier.

The frothing and rage was something to behold. Madrid fans were especially guilty of this. Bitching and moaning about UEFA and UNICEF conspiracies. Fuck off with that, it's a load of nonsense.

I'd expect a bit more than that from rational beings. So Embarrassing.
Click to expand...

pretty much this, the madrid fans are absolutely the worst when it comes to whining.
 
S

Splatt

Member
Zabojnik said:
Trolling mood, but also because you know it isn't true. :p As far as fitness and injuries go I used to believe it all came down mostly to general stress and bad luck, but seeing how incredibly well we're doing this year ... Conte's staff must be doing something right. With Ranieri we shattered every muscular injury record there was and everybody was blaming Vinovo, our training center, where apparently the humidity high. The difference in form and player sanity is just incredible.
Click to expand...

I think the players are too scared of Conte yelling at them all day, that they don't want to risk an injury :p
 
F

FuturusX

Member
But that's the problem. Rational posters just sit back and let the "noise" ensue. Contribute, so that in the very least every third post is something other than. Unicef / I hate Barcelona / Bousquets is a diver blah blah.
 
F

Frank the Great

Banned
yeah only the madrid fans were talking conspiracy. i actually think the ref did a decent job barring a few glaring calls, but that's just the home team advantage tipping the scales i guess. barca deserved to win regardless.

barca is also very good at drawing soft fouls, it reminds me of us when we play against shitty teams in serie a.
 
M

Moobabe

Member
FuturusX said:
But that's the problem. Rational posters just sit back and let the "noise" ensue. Contribute, so that in the very least every third post is something other than. Unicef / I hate Barcelona / Bousquets is a diver blah blah.
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You're allowed to dislike Barca and be rational - not sure they're mutually exclusive.
 
Z

Zabojnik

Member
Yurt said:
Paolo Bertelli is godly!
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Indeed! Also, Julio Tous, who worked for Barca in the past and with Rafa Nadal and Carlos Moya, and Roberto Sassi, who as I understand it is basically a human 'Juve Lab', the man behind data gathering and elaboration. Conte teams are like clockwork ... the form *always* goes down in january and february, to come back up in march. It will be interesting to see what will happen next year, should we make it to the CL (I know, I know, but you never know :)).
 
F

FuturusX

Member
Moobabe said:
You're allowed to dislike Barca and be rational - not sure they're mutually exclusive.
Click to expand...

Hate for a football team is rarely rational...It's just a game.

I dislike UTD, but I'm adult enough to admit that it's based on the irrational parts of my brain :)
 
Meus Renaissance

Meus Renaissance

Member
Wilbury said:
This is all bollocks. Arsenal were lucky to win and caught Barca on the counter attack twice. It was a great tactic, but they didn't play like they normally do. They defended deep, passed the ball quick onto the wings and made a lot of long clearances out of the box.

Why should football be played only on grass? Why is the notion of playing long balls and taking advantages of your team's strength a bad one?
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I'm not talking about the specific goals we scored but our general play throughout the game. We defended deep when we had to, but we didn't employ this tactic of having a CB as a playmaker feeding a striker (with the rest acting as a wall) with 60 yard hopeful balls. We passed through the midfield and created several good chances. The winning goal was reflective of that attitude and it proved that you can beat Barcelona by competing against them directly.

It's bad for various reasons. Football isn't based on the idea that one team just defends whilst another attacks; whether you do or not is dependant on if you have the ball. We have a dozen players on each side in order to utilise the large pitch size. We have players with individual roles, skills and specialities for each role created to utilise that area of the pitch. We have passing specialists, we have runners, we have flair and skill; each factor designed to give the player an advantage over his opponent. It is why the best games and best players who use the grass to give us entertaining matches, hence the saying "the way it's meant to be played".

This tact of sitting deep, conceding possession and thus the intent to move forward in the pitch is not a tact by fans or for the fans but coaches of teams who realise their best chance of winning a game is to not actually play with the ball but solely stop the opponent playing with it. Often, most teams use this tact to defend a lead in the last 10 minutes. But to use it from kick off is an admission that you cannot compete against the opponent, that they are better than you and you will not even bother attempting to play. These players are paid tens of thousands a week and this is meant to be the most prestigious club tournament, not a third division match. That's why it's embarrassing.

Outside Chelsea fans, who will want to progress to the next round understandably, I don't see how any neutral can defend this type of football.
 
M

Moobabe

Member
Jason Raize '75 - '04 said:
I'm not talking about the specific goals we scored but our general play throughout the game. We defended deep when we had to, but we didn't employ this tactic of having a CB as a playmaker feeding a striker (with the rest acting as a wall) with 60 yard hopeful balls. We passed through the midfield and created several good chances. The winning goal was reflective of that attitude and it proved that you can beat Barcelona by competing against them directly.

It's bad for various reasons. Football isn't based on the idea that one team just defends whilst another attacks; whether you do or not is dependant on if you have the ball. We have a dozen players on each side in order to utilise the large pitch size. We have players with individual roles, skills and specialities for each role created to utilise that area of the pitch. We have passing specialists, we have runners, we have flair and skill; each factor designed to give the player an advantage over his opponent. It is why the best games and best players who use the grass to give us entertaining matches, hence the saying "the way it's meant to be played".

This tact of sitting deep, conceding possession and thus the intent to move forward in the pitch is not a tact by fans or for the fans but coaches of teams who realise their best chance of winning a game is to not actually play with the ball but solely stop the opponent playing with it. Often, most teams use this tact to defend a lead in the last 10 minutes. But to use it from kick off is an admission that you cannot compete against the opponent, that they are better than you and you will not even bother attempting to play. These players are paid tens of thousands a week and this is meant to be the most prestigious club tournament, not a third division match. That's why it's embarrassing.

Outside Chelsea fans, who will want to progress to the next round understandably, I don't see how any neutral can defend this type of football.
Click to expand...

I've said it multiple times - the best football I've ever seen was The Invincibles at Arsenal and when Ronaldo was at United. It was high tempo, it was direct, it was powerful. I'm not enamoured with Barcelona's play style - I won't deny its quality, but for me it's not God's gift as many make it out to be. Saying there's only "one way" of playing football is extremely narrow minded, something you share with Wenger, and is perhaps why Arsenal haven't won anything for years. You play to your strengths and try and exploit the oppositions weaknesses - not go to the Nou Camp with a high line and get completely smashed so you can say "at least we played football the right way" - that's embarrassing.
 
F

Fintan

Member
Jason Raize '75 - '04 said:
I'm not talking about the specific goals we scored but our general play throughout the game. We defended deep when we had to, but we didn't employ this tactic of having a CB as a playmaker feeding a striker (with the rest acting as a wall) with 60 yard hopeful balls. We passed through the midfield and created several good chances. The winning goal was reflective of that attitude and it proved that you can beat Barcelona by competing against them directly.

It's bad for various reasons. Football isn't based on the idea that one team just defends whilst another attacks; whether you do or not is dependant on if you have the ball. We have a dozen players on each side in order to utilise the large pitch size. We have players with individual roles, skills and specialities for each role created to utilise that area of the pitch. We have passing specialists, we have runners, we have flair and skill; each factor designed to give the player an advantage over his opponent. It is why the best games and best players who use the grass to give us entertaining matches, hence the saying "the way it's meant to be played".

This tact of sitting deep, conceding possession and thus the intent to move forward in the pitch is not a tact by fans or for the fans but coaches of teams who realise their best chance of winning a game is to not actually play with the ball but solely stop the opponent playing with it. Often, most teams use this tact to defend a lead in the last 10 minutes. But to use it from kick off is an admission that you cannot compete against the opponent, that they are better than you and you will not even bother attempting to play. These players are paid tens of thousands a week and this is meant to be the most prestigious club tournament, not a third division match. That's why it's embarrassing.

Outside Chelsea fans, who will want to progress to the next round understandably, I don't see how any neutral can defend this type of football.
Click to expand...

I feel like tactically "outplaying" a team is an important part of football. Why should a team playing Barcelona have to attempt to play a style similar to theirs? That's tactically playing into their hands. If a team parks the bus and beats Barcelona then does that team not deserve their win? Couldn't it be said that Barcelona were not good enough to overcome this tactic?

I'm not saying win by any means necessary obviously I don't advocate diving etc. but I think it's unfair to saying they can't compete. They can't compete by playing a certain style of football.

I don't know, I just think there's more nuance to the situation than saying that playing that way is always a terrible thing.
 
Meus Renaissance

Meus Renaissance

Member
Moobabe said:
I've said it multiple times - the best football I've ever seen was The Invincibles at Arsenal and when Ronaldo was at United. It was high tempo, it was direct, it was powerful. I'm not enamoured with Barcelona's play style - I won't deny its quality, but for me it's not God's gift as many make it out to be. Saying there's only "one way" of playing football is extremely narrow minded, something you share with Wenger, and is perhaps why Arsenal haven't won anything for years. You play to your strengths and try and exploit the oppositions weaknesses - not go to the Nou Camp with a high line and get completely smashed so you can say "at least we played football the right way."
Click to expand...

There isn't one way of playing. The 'Invincibles', Ronaldo's Man Utd and Barcelona all played different football but what they shared in common is that they had players in various roles - whether it be in defence, the flanks, the midfield or attack; each played with the ball throughout the pitch. There are different ways of 'playing'. But having 10 men behind the ball with one on the other end of the field waiting for a hoof ball isn't a style, it's a style. You can't drop back on the logic that football is purely about outscoring the opposition, if that were so then there would be no distinction between Swansea City or Sam Allardyce's Bolton. There is a difference and we acknowledge that difference everytime we choose to watch a match; we recognise quality. Not quality in how accurate 60 yard balls from the penalty box are, but how creative and skilful a team can be in the midfield.

Chelsea using this tact isn't so much about exploiting Barcelona's weakness as it is about 'we can't compete against them directly, so lets stop them playing'. The emphasis on this isn't to score from the break but from to stop Barcelona defending. A goal on your part is of lesser priority, otherwise they'd actually move beyond the halfway line.
 
F

FuturusX

Member
Jason Raize '75 - '04 said:
Outside Chelsea fans, who will want to progress to the next round understandably, I don't see how any neutral can defend this type of football.
Click to expand...

It's all about perspective.

Sitting deep, and waiting for the odd chance, is a brilliant dogged display defending and incredible bravery when the result is a win.

The very same approach is negative football, a betrayal of the way the game should be played when it's a losing tactic.

Barcelona's possession football is a cruel master.
 
T

tzare

Member
depite barça haters alternate reality, we deserved to be in the semis. Many seem to focus on thesecond penalty, but even without that one, we had won 2-1, plus we had 2 penalties not given in the first match.
Oh, and we played better than milan. It was tough though.
 
W

Wilbur

Banned
Jason Raize '75 - '04 said:
I'm not talking about the specific goals we scored but our general play throughout the game. We defended deep when we had to, but we didn't employ this tactic of having a CB as a playmaker feeding a striker (with the rest acting as a wall) with 60 yard hopeful balls. We passed through the midfield and created several good chances. The winning goal was reflective of that attitude and it proved that you can beat Barcelona by competing against them directly.
Click to expand...

Of course you can beat them by competing directly. But the reason I think you beat them is they took their eye off the ball and became complacent. Barca play like they can and those balls don't go through the middle, irrespective of your tactics. Koscielny was magnificent but instead of playing the long ball through the middle, 75 minutes of your game was based around clearing it to the wings. It's not a bad tactic and obviously me being on this side of the argument means I don't give a shit how Arsenal played because they won; it just seems to be forgotten that because Arsenal specifically beat Barcelona, that they didn't put in a typically Arsenal-like performance.

It's bad for various reasons. Football isn't based on the idea that one team just defends whilst another attacks; whether you do or not is dependant on if you have the ball. We have a dozen players on each side in order to utilise the large pitch size. We have players with individual roles, skills and specialities for each role created to utilise that area of the pitch. We have passing specialists, we have runners, we have flair and skill; each factor designed to give the player an advantage over his opponent. It is why the best games and best players who use the grass to give us entertaining matches, hence the saying "the way it's meant to be played".
Click to expand...

Barcelona go by the notion that if you have the ball, you are defending as well as attacking. This is a viable way of defending and it works. Similarly, like Moobabe (I think?) said, the two Inter performances against Barca a year or two ago were as impressive as any I've seen; it wasn't because it was Barcelona, but the thrill of a team saying to a side as impressive as Barca 'we know how to stop you, and this is how we're going to do it' and executing that to fucking perfection, was just fantastic. The first leg when they sat back, launched the ball to the wings and used Sneijder as a creative hub was as fantastic a tactic as I've ever seen against them.

The point about using skill and flair to gain an advantage against an opponent can just as easily be applied to power and pace. Put Nemanja Vidic up against a tricksy left back at a corner and see who wins; the different roles on teams mean sides like Barcelona are anomalies, ones who the whole team are comfortable with the ball (and for the record, I find a plethora of teams more entertaining to watch despite the respect I have for Barca and their technical brilliance; I just don't find it that exciting to watch the ball spend a lot of the time being passed sidewards along the halfway line before being passed to Messi).

This tact of sitting deep, conceding possession and thus the intent to move forward in the pitch is not a tact by fans or for the fans but coaches of teams who realise their best chance of winning a game is to not actually play with the ball but solely stop the opponent playing with it. Often, most teams use this tact to defend a lead in the last 10 minutes. But to use it from kick off is an admission that you cannot compete against the opponent, that they are better than you and you will not even bother attempting to play. These players are paid tens of thousands a week and this is meant to be the most prestigious club tournament, not a third division match. That's why it's embarrassing.
Click to expand...

I'll repeat what I said about Inter; Mourinho knew he had 9 or 10 functional players who understood his tactics implicitly, who knew exactly what Barcelona would do and that their best chance of having their name written on a trophy, not consigned to the annals of runners up that passed the ball round and had twee media commentators appreciate that they at least tried to match Barcelona's game, was to use those players to stop Barcelona from winning. Sneijder and Eto'o were the creative outlets, but when Inter's Plan A (consisting of sitting as deep as possible, letting Barca have their possession and hitting them on the counter) stopped Barcelona's Plan A, it was only one team who had thought the game the whole way through. And I dare you to find one Inter fan, player or neutral who sat there for that first leg when Barcelona were not just beaten, but destroyed 3-1, who didn't think 'fuck me this is how you play against Barcelona.' It was incredible. And the reason they won is because they knew their limitations on the technical side. They used every ounce of knowledge, nous and power to fulfil their potential on their strengths.
 
M

Moobabe

Member
Jason Raize '75 - '04 said:
There isn't one way of playing. The 'Invincibles', Ronaldo's Man Utd and Barcelona all played different football but what they shared in common is that they had players in various roles - whether it be in defence, the flanks, the midfield or attack; each played with the ball throughout the pitch. There are different ways of 'playing'. But having 10 men behind the ball with one on the other end of the field waiting for a hoof ball isn't a style, it's a style. You can't drop back on the logic that football is purely about outscoring the opposition, if that were so then there would be no distinction between Swansea City or Sam Allardyce's Bolton. There is a difference and we acknowledge that difference everytime we choose to watch a match; we recognise quality. Not quality in how accurate 60 yard balls from the penalty box are, but how creative and skilful a team can be in the midfield.

Chelsea using this tact isn't so much about exploiting Barcelona's weakness as it is about 'we can't compete against them directly, so lets stop them playing'. The emphasis on this isn't to score from the break but from to stop Barcelona defending. A goal on your part is of lesser priority, otherwise they'd actually move beyond the halfway line.
Click to expand...

So if Chelsea win then it's... bad for football? What did you make of Inter's defeat of Barca?
 
V

Vivalaraza

Member
Hmm, it sounds like Barca got some soft decisions tonight? Must have been craaayyyy up in here!

All I know is they were denied a certain penalty in the first leg so yknow...

Looks like Bayern vs Real is a go. I'm not sure who to support. I like players on both sides, I prefer Bayern as a club but I wanna see Ronaldo do well. But then I'd rather see Barca vs Bayern than Barca vs Real. Hmm, I'll just enjoy the match.

Oh yeah, Chelsea lol. Im not even certain they'll qualify but if they do they'll have to go long vs Barca. It might not be pretty but it's about winning. Sorry Meus, cannot agree. I'd agree in terms of building a team and system for a season(s), but in a one off tie you prioritise victory.

Moral cups are bullshit.
 
FootballFan

FootballFan

Member
tzare said:
depite barça haters alternate reality, we deserved to be in the semis. Many seem to focus on thesecond penalty, but even without that one, we had won 2-1, plus we had 2 penalties not given in the first match.
Oh, and we played better than milan. It was tough though.
Click to expand...

Don't start the referee call discussion again :lol. We never get anywhere.
It will always be like this. lol

edit
Also guys I want to apologize for acting like a douche earlier, during game-time I am too hyped lol. But you guys also have to understand how frustrating it is to have people taking away victories and just saying corruption, uefalona, unicef etc. It almost feels like we were knocked out by Milan even though I know we are in the semis. :(
 
V

Vivalaraza

Member
FootballFan said:
Don't start the referee call discussion again :lol. We never get anywhere.
It will always be like this. lol

edit
Also guys I want to apologize for acting like a douche earlier, during game-time I am too hyped lol. But you guys also have to understand how frustrating it is to have people taking away victories and just saying corruption, uefalona, unicef etc. It almost feels like we were knocked out by Milan even though I know we are in the semis. :(
Click to expand...
I know that feel bro.

Seriously, no point in giving a damn. And let's be honest, we know that for the most part the hate and rage comes because Barca are the best and nobody wants to see the best win and win and win. I watch Barca and get annoyed when they get breaks because I want them to lose, cos I want the underdog to win. But it's only because Barca are freaking awesome.

Every now and then you get crazy circumstances like that semi against Chelsea and its like, okay, that's messed up. More often than not its just football fans being bitter. Anyways, I hope Barcelona don't win it but I got nothing but respect for them, they beat that sense into me :(

elsk said:
Semifinal in the Allianz Arena is already sold out.
Click to expand...
Which leg is first? Could be crucial.
 
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