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[Kthulhu]

Rehabilitation, most of the time, doesn't work. For 90% of the cases, people will change only if they want to change. This isn't some kind of inanimate evil that we can eradicate with rehabilitation. Most crimes aren't. He should be punished with jail instead. The way to reduce crime is to help diminish the causes of why people do crimes in the first place, whether it be improving their standard of living in cases of low level drug dealers or eliminating the current rape culture and misogyny that festers underneath society.

You got a statistic to back this up?

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Not every murder is worthy of life in prison. We shouldn't lock them up forever unless we need to.

Sure. We have a court system to determine context. Hence why we differentiate 1st degree, manslaughter etc. Manslaughter for example is not something you need life in prison for. But I mean god damn, people are so up on rehabilitating people that have no need to be.

As I said. This guy, I doubt he rapes again. So is everythimg cool now?

 

[appaws]

Interesting to see the GAF lefty reaction to this, in that the crime has the sex/gender element and provides a great chance for signalling.

I would throw rapists in a giant meat grinder, but then I am an evil right-wing type.

 

[Tall4Life]

You got a statistic to back this up?

I don't have a specific statistic on hand but I can speak based on an interview I conducted with a federal prison warden (the research was about private prisons and whether they should continue to exist). We went off on a tangent and he spoke at length about how they try to rehabilitate prisoners, but as I said, it mostly doesn't work, and many come back to prison anyway. It is also extremely costly and time consuming. However, those who wanted to be rehabilitated were less likely to come back. He had to perform numerous studies and research in his 20+ years as a federal warden as part of his job to the government.

Though, to qualify that, mental illness is something that can be easier to rehabilitate for, since it is a typically more easily identifiable illness, plain and simple. We can notice schizophrenia and borderline personality and the like. But for most crime and criminals, they do crimes out of near necessity -- Don't have much money and you have no education? Sell drugs. Get arrested and released? What do you come back to? Jack shit. Rinse repeat. We need to look at why people commit crimes at all (and its not because they are evil) and start to make solutions there.

Now, I admit, it could be argued that maybe their rehabilitation methods weren't as effective as they could be, but this is a federal prison we're talking about. They get a great budget since they work directly with the federal government (and thus they're not as plagued by issues from state, local, and private prisons).

 

[Corronchilejano]

Sure. We have a court system to determine context. Hence why we differentiate 1st degree, manslaughter etc. Manslaughter for example is not something you need life in prison for. But I mean god damn, people are so up on rehabilitating people that have no need to be.

As I said. This guy, I doubt he rapes again. So is everythimg cool now?

Everyone gets one free rape then?

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Everyone gets one free rape then?

In our current society yeah basically.

I'm left leaning and liberal as hell but I really dont empathize with this guy and guys like him. There is no series of events that explain or partially account for shit like this. It's pure "I want to, I will".

 

[Kthulhu]

I don't have a specific statistic on hand but I can speak based on an interview I conducted with a federal prison warden (the research was about private prisons and whether they should continue to exist). We went off on a tangent and he spoke at length about how they try to rehabilitate prisoners, but as I said, it mostly doesn't work, and many come back to prison anyway. It is also extremely costly and time consuming. However, those who wanted to be rehabilitated were less likely to come back. He had to perform numerous studies and research in his 20+ years as a federal warden as part of his job to the government.

Though, to qualify that, mental illness is something that can be easier to rehabilitate for, since it is a typically more easily identifiable illness, plain and simple. We can notice schizophrenia and borderline personality and the like. But for most crime and criminals, they do crimes out of near necessity -- Don't have much money and you have no education? Sell drugs. Get arrested and released? What do you come back to? Jack shit. Rinse repeat. We need to look at why people commit crimes at all (and its not because they are evil) and start to make solutions there.

Now, I admit, it could be argued that maybe their rehabilitation methods weren't as effective as they could be, but this is a federal prison we're talking about. They get a great budget since they work directly with the federal government (and thus they're not as plagued by issues from state, local, and private prisons).

While I agree that preventative measures help to reduce crime, it will not stop it. That is why we have rehabilitation, so that the people who do commit crimes do not commit them again.

Everyone gets one free rape then?

I feel bad for laughing at this.

 

[kirblar]

In our current society yeah basically.

I'm left leaning and liberal as hell but I really dont empathize with this guy and guys like him. There is no series of events that explain or partially account for shit like this. It's pure "I want to, I will".

Exactly. It's not like these people are any different from child predators in terms of mentality, aside from the age of the victims. They know it's wrong, they just don't care.

The reason the rape stats are so high isn't because 20℅ of the population are rapists, it's that a small ℅ go unchecked and leave a massive number of victims in their wake.

 

[Ivan 3414]

He looks like a fucking loser. Thanks a lot, judge.

Yep we need to start locking up people that look like fucking losers before we even start to worry about rapists

/s

 

[Mr Git]

Fucking hell. That poor woman, fuck.

The really depressing thing about this is when the story broke out and the news was white guy, football team - people had already guessed this outcome. It's that predictable. Awful.

 

[Jokab]

I don't ahree because I don't see any actual reason why someone who commits murder needs to be reintroduced into society at all. I don't think society is dying for their contributions frankly. Rape, you need to serve a hefty sentemce. Not life but something significant.

Rehabilitation should be reserved for people who have fallen off a path in part because of socirtal issues, in part because of poor choices that arent irevrrsibly destructive to others. I'm not here trying to spemd dollars and resources for people who cant follow societies most basic rules.

I don't wanna live next to a murder because "oh he's harmless now". That doesnt make me feel safe.

I think that if someone can be deemed not a danger to society anymore, then he or she should be given a second chance. I fully believe that rehabilitation can enable convicts to make that change. All of them? Nah. The vast majority? Yeah I believe so.

 

[DedValve]

Dude was suggesting death penalty though. I think that's pretty fucking extreme. I'm all for being hard on violent crime but death penalty really needs to used for extreme cases. And I'm not even against harsh sentencing. I largely am not interested in rehabilitating murderers and rapists.

Everyone knows this shit is wrong and entitely unnecessary. This isnt dealing drugs for money or stealing. These actions have zero relevant societal context behind them. Good looking gifted middle class white kids have zero reason to resort to crime at all, so when they rape someone what context is there for understanding?

But killing them? That's way the fuck extreme as well.

Oh yeah dont get me wrong i dont believe in the death penalty and believe it should be abolished. I was referring more to how this is yet another scenario of letting a dangerous threat roam free.

 

[Oberon]

Everyone gets one free rape then?

That depends on your skin colour.

 

[Tall4Life]

While I agree that preventative measures help to reduce crime, it will not stop it. That is why we have rehabilitation, so that the people who do commit crimes do not commit them again.

It's not about preventative measures. It's about solving the problems inherent and ingrained in society, specifically class, race, and gender among others of course, that are the cause of these problems.

Many have previously argued (not necessarily in this thread, but in general), that Europe's prison systems are superior because they are more accommodating to the prisoner and treats them respectably, which falls in line with the rehabilitation theory. And I'd agree that the prison environment, especially in state, local, and private prisons needs to be changed as it breeds more criminals, but that isn't the end of what needs to change. When you leave a prison in Europe, you're probably going back to an okay standard of living with free health care and other social benefits. You're probably not in a constant struggle for survival. However, here, while the poor may be some of the richest poor in the world, that doesn't get them shit in the way of reasonable accommodations to live OR social mobility. If you have a crime like robbery or drug trafficking on your record, no matter what your circumstances were or what society has done to get you to that place, good luck getting a job. If you have a felony, you might as well forget about trying to get a good job. You might be able to get a pretty shitty job if you have a lesser crime on your record, but minimum wage is not enough to survive on.

So what's the result? Back to crime. Sure, some commit crime because they are mentally ill, and it is much more clear so, and they should definitely be the focus of rehabilitation, even if it is mostly a failure, but I'd argue that most crimes have causes that are rooted in the way our country and society functions, which is more of a sociological perspective on the issue.