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[TofuEater]

Yeah I suppose you've never EVER taken a look in your rear view mirror in either game.

That's how it is when you're dead last in a race.

This.

and seriously graphics aside, the tire skidding sounds in GT5P, namely they are shit, stop recycling the same sound for the past 4 games. This probably won't change in GT5 either.

Forza 3 however (esp Sebring) has that "ka chink ka chink" over rough surfaces, attention to sound right there!

 

[TheHeretic]

Forza has a 92, GT3 has a 95.
.

So, contrary to the way mathematics actually works we are rounding down the Score past .5 and rounding up the score below .5.

I think I see where this is going.

 

[CrushDance]

Yeah I suppose you've never EVER taken a look in your rear view mirror in either game.

That's how it is when you're dead last in a race.



That's what this thread is all about. It's about showing how mindblowingly dumb console system warz fanboys can get.

In this very case how much of the "Gran Turismo fans" aren't really interested in playing great sim games and are more interested in their console being #1.

The stupidity here has been constantly one sided. Take a look at the post I respond to in this very post.

Iknos the saint.

 

[Death Dealer]

92 and 95 are the scores listed on the site.

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/forzamotorsport3?q=forza 3

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/ps2/granturismo3aspec?q=gran turismo 3

I don't know what you're whining about.

Did you look up the definition of eclipse ? :lol

 

[TheHeretic]

92 and 95 are the scores listed on the site.

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/forzamotorsport3?q=forza 3

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/ps2/granturismo3aspec?q=gran turismo 3

I don't know what you're whining about.

Did you look up the definition of eclipse ? :lol

Because apparently 3% in reviews somehow constitutes an "eclipse" (and you still haven't grasped the impact of the word), so you bypassed the figures I presented to better state your point. When we are dealing with the margin of reviewing you are talking about, which is completely absurd, we might as well get it decimal points while we are at it.

 

[Death Dealer]

Because apparently 3% in reviews somehow constitutes an "eclipse" (and you still haven't grasped the impact of the word)

You still haven't looked up the word. I used it properly.

 

[TheHeretic]

You still haven't looked up the word. I used it properly.

I haven't looked it up because i'm smart enough innately to know its correct usage. Regardless i'm not going to spend 10 posts talking about it as its off topic and mostly irrelevant.

 

[Death Dealer]

Yeah you really shouldn't have said a word. I still don't know what you were thinking trying to "call out" my original post, or coming up with your own "unofficial" metacritic averages, when the numbers are plain as day right on the site.

 

[Iknos]

Iknos the saint.

There's a fucking choir singing each time I post.

And by the way I know that I'm haggling Forza but the difference is I don't resort to bullshit like these trolls are. Even ask Che and he'll tell you my criticisms of the game are never out of line. Though he probably hates it when I constantly bring stuff up. I'm not making up BS like these Sony slaves are.

 

[jakonovski]

Uh oh:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-forza3-evolution-article

 

[CrushDance]

There's a fucking choir singing each time I post.

And by the way I know that I'm haggling Forza but the difference is I don't resort to bullshit like these trolls are. Even ask Che and he'll tell you my criticisms of the game are never out of line. Though he probably hates it when I constantly bring stuff up. I'm not making up BS like these Sony slaves are.

My point exactly.

 

[mujun]

Uh oh:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-forza3-evolution-article

What is "uh oh" about that article. Seems to mirror exactly what I thought:

Forza 3 looks considerably better than Forza 2.
GT5 will look considerably better than Forza 3.
Forza 3 is bringing a lot to the table in the racing genre.
It's hard to tell which game feels more realistic but Forza 3 feels great.

 

[adelante]

Nope. Everything in Forza 3 looks worse, I can't mention a single graphical feature that looks better in Forza.

The cars have a plasticky look to them with lower polygon counts.

The environments, outside of the demo, look completely sterile with unimpressive lighting. The mountain track in the demo itself looks very cartoony and not realistic.

The resolution in Forza 3 is lower.

The lighting and reflection mapping on the cars looks horrible in forza, and the shadowing (particularly in cockpit view) looks very, very poor.

Again, one of the reasons why I don't support for the Forza franchise is because it lacks polish in many key areas and decides to focus on areas like the livery that really don't matter.

If I'm going to drop $60 on a sim racer, I want it to be definitive. And forza is anything but definitive.

The environmental reflection maps are par for the course for any racer this gen ie, they're fine. A lot your criticisms can simply be summed up with PD's extraordinary work on the car material shaders (one of the things they're doing which I love is adding this extra layer of blue sky tint which does add to the overall photorealism)

Anyway, its funny to see how ignorant you are with where Forza's main strengths lie when you've gone at length to talk about GT5's graphics and then immediately claim that its direct competitor lacks any polish. Plus, you DO know that barely anything new was added to the livery editor in Forza3 right? Of course you don't. Because if you were remotely competent with your comparisons, you'd realize that one of Turn10's focus was always to foster a strong community with MANY features that INCLUDES the livery editor. It is...what you call, icing on top of an extremely delightful cake. With the "cake" being Forza's widely-recognized solid foundation in gameplay.

Good point, all the more reason why I'll just wait for the real deal with GT5.

5 years in the making, it's going to be absolutely epic. Forza is going to seem like a stop gap in comparison.

LMAO all the more reason to think of your "contributions" here as worthless :lol

 

[magus]

This thread sure is entertaining.

 

[SmokyDave]

GT PSP
Announced May 11, 2004
Released October 1, 2009
Over 5 years...how did that effort turn out?

Um, pretty fucking awesome? Have you played it? The physics are incredible for a portable racer.

On topic: Had Forza 3 since launch, loving it, can't wait for GT5.

 

[Iknos]

My point exactly.

You may not consider me a saint. But at least I'm FAIR and I call it like it is.

 

[eso76]

Uh oh:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-forza3-evolution-article

UH, wait does this article state that higher lod models are used for spectator cam during replays or did i read it wrong ?
because that's absolutely not true.

 

[-viper-]

This.

and seriously graphics aside, the tire skidding sounds in GT5P, namely they are shit, stop recycling the same sound for the past 4 games. This probably won't change in GT5 either.

Forza 3 however (esp Sebring) has that "ka chink ka chink" over rough surfaces, attention to sound right there!

they have changed the sounds in GT PSP (and GT5).

 

[theignoramus]

Uh oh:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-forza3-evolution-article

The Eurogamer forums are full of mouthbreathers whining about a game 5 years in the making having a technical edge over FM3.
But it wasnt a GT5 vs. FM3 comparison, it was a GT5p vs. FM3 graphics comparison.:lol
Also, it's abundantly clear that the FM3 "engine" was in no way built from scratch, so it's not like all of FM3's technology was created from thin air after May of 2007. (although I admit, only an idiot would have actually believed that they scrapped good working engine code while working on a Microsoft deadline.)

 

[Iknos]

Also, it's abundantly clear that the FM3 "engine" was in no way built from scratch, so it's not like all of FM3's technology was created from thin air after May of 2007. (although I admit, only an idiot would have actually believed that they scrapped good working engine code while working on a Microsoft deadline.)

Do you even know what a game engine is?

Assets are completely seperate from the engine.

 

[Guy Legend]

Yamauchi: Forza is “different from a simulator”

November 6th, 2009 @ 13:31
By Patrick Garratt

forza33

Polyphony front man Kazunori Yamauchi’s told Autoweek the Forza 3 doesn’t match up in the realism stakes to GT. Them’s fighting words.

“Some base components of the game are very different from Gran Turismo,” he said. “It’s a little bit different from what a simulator is. You can feel it when you drive it.”

That said, the dev legend has tried out the Turn 10 racer, and conceded the game bears many similar characteristics to his game. Rather obviously.

“I was watching the guys at our company trying it out in the office. I tried it a little bit. It’s very similar in a lot of aspects to Gran Turismo,” he said.

GT5’s out in Japan next March. Forza 3’s out now. Thanks, CVG

http://www.vg247.com/2009/11/06/yamauchi-forza-is-different-from-a-simulator/

 

[XiaNaphryz]

http://www.vg247.com/2009/11/06/yamauchi-forza-is-different-from-a-simulator/

So he makes a broad sweeping judgment on the game, but then follows it up with "I played it for a little bit"? If anyone else made a similar post on these boards about ANY game they'd get endless grief. :lol

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

So he makes a broad sweeping judgment on the game, but then follows it up with "I played it for a little bit"? If anyone else made a similar post on these boards about ANY game they'd get endless grief. :lol

There is a difference between someone in this forum saying they played it a little bit and someone like Kaz who has devoted his life to this and can tell what's good and bad in a glimpse.

 

[SmokyDave]

So he makes a broad sweeping judgment on the game, but then follows it up with "I played it for a little bit"? If anyone else made a similar post on these boards about ANY game they'd get endless grief. :lol

If he had played it for longer do you think he'd feel differently?

I'm enjoying Forza for many reasons (online community, customisation etc) but it does feel a bit 'wrong'. It's really hard to get the back end to break loose. It feels like the assists can be turned down but not off.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

There is a difference between someone in this forum saying they played it a little bit and someone like Kaz who has devoted his life to this and can tell what's good and bad in a glimpse.

What does this mean exactly? Like he has some kind of preternatural Super Appraisal Powers?

 

[ShapeGSX]

There is a difference between someone in this forum saying they played it a little bit and someone like Kaz who has devoted his life to this and can tell what's good and bad in a glimpse.

I'm so surprised he said something disparaging about a competitor's product.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

What does this mean exactly? Like he has some kind of preternatural Super Appraisal Powers?

No. It's called knowing your shit (and opinion). A far mature response to a competitor than saying we're slapping them left and right and no one competes with his and that the baton has been passed without even playing the game.

 

[SmokyDave]

What does this mean exactly? Like he has some kind of preternatural Super Appraisal Powers?

Yup. He channels that shit through translator guy.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Yup. He channels that shit through translator guy.

I just found it quite a nice turn of the phrase, actually.

 

[Shambles]

Yeah I suppose you've never EVER taken a look in your rear view mirror in either game.

That's how it is when you're dead last in a race.



That's what this thread is all about. It's about showing how mindblowingly dumb console system warz fanboys can get.

In this very case how much of the "Gran Turismo fans" aren't really interested in playing great sim games and are more interested in their console being #1.

The stupidity here has been constantly one sided. Take a look at the post I respond to in this very post.

*munches on popcorn*

How does the saying go, mote in your brothers eye, beam in you own? It's pretty hard to have an argument with yourself, there's always more than one side. I realize this is the whole point of the thread but daaaamn.

 

[AndyD]

What does this mean exactly? Like he has some kind of preternatural Super Appraisal Powers?

I would guess a regular race driver can tell in a few minutes whether a driving game behaves well or not.

A race driver who is also a driving game designer can probably tell even faster.

Now I am not saying he is right or wrong, but to doubt that he can tell with "a little bit" of playtime is pretty crazy.

That said, this is the first time he has said anything negative about F3 that I remember. And he seems to commend it in parts.

 

[ShapeGSX]

I would guess a regular race driver can tell in a few minutes whether a driving game behaves well or not.

You mean like Stephane Sarrazin?

In a little over a minute, he figured out that his time at Road Atlanta in Forza 3 was within 2/10s of his actual time on the track.

 

[theignoramus]

Do you even know what a game engine is?

Assets are completely seperate from the engine.

Looks like I may have crossed a wire. I could have sworn I read Dan Greenawalt brag that they'd built the FM3 engine from scratch, but he's never actually said that, only that they rewrote a large portion of the Fm2 engine.

 

[Goldrusher]

In a little over a minute, he figured out that his time at Road Atlanta in Forza 3 was within 2/10s of his actual time on the track.

An Xbox 360 sponsored driver says an Xbox 360 game is great ? I'm shocked.

 

[adelante]

An Xbox 360 sponsored driver says an Xbox 360 game is great ? I'm shocked.

So what you're implying is that every comment given, regardless of whether its from a race driver or a game designer or both, should be taken at face value? Gotcha

 

[MrPliskin]

What does this mean exactly? Like he has some kind of preternatural Super Appraisal Powers?

Considering his experience driving a very broad range of vehicles on a multitude of tracks, I'd say he's far more qualified to say anything he wants, as opposed to say, a lot of the brain dead people in this thread.

 

[D'ultimate]

So what you're implying is that every comment given, regardless of whether its from a race driver or a game designer or both, should be taken at face value? Gotcha

No. he's saying what Kaz says is the real deal. Everyone else, no matter their expertise, not so much!

 

[MrPliskin]

No. he's saying what Kaz says is the real deal. Everyone else, no matter their expertise, not so much!

I'm not going to say he's right or wrong, but I am going to say that comments on behavior and what not are far more valuable than comparison times.

I can promise you any driver can get well under his "real world" times in a videogame given a few laps. In fact, I bet he probably did. Removing danger and fear will yield far better times. Simply saying "oh, it's close to my real world time" tells us nothing, other than the times are similar.

 

[theignoramus]

I just posted about this at another site, but my post was deleted, and I was advised to post my thoughts on the matter in the Eurogamer comment sections. But what better place to post this, then on a Neogaf system wars thread....

In terms of the marketing angle covered earlier, Polyphony generally doesn't release actual screenshots of its games - certainly not of GT5 (see Digital Foundry's piece on the bullshot phenomenon) and in the case of Infinity Ward, its screenshot endeavours can be covered off very nicely by using the PC version running at 1080p. Forza 3 is a bullshot-free zone by reputation, but it's worth pointing out that the game's replay mode - running at 30FPS - effectively provides all the screenshot and video quality required for marketing purposes, without the pain of compromising the core appeal of actually playing the game.

I find this statement inaccurate and false, given the marketing campaign that lead up to FM3`s release. It was being advertised with cars with levels of detail not available for gameplay or even replays. That`s the definition of bullshot practises.

 

[adelante]

I'm not going to say he's right or wrong, but I am going to say that comments on behavior and what not are far more valuable than comparison times.

I can promise you any driver can get well under his "real world" times in a videogame given a few laps. In fact, I bet he probably did. Removing danger and fear will yield far better times. Simply saying "oh, it's close to my real world time" tells us nothing, other than the times are similar.

Behaviour and what nots? So you're implying that Turn10's main focus was to make a racer that will go a good job at approximating real-life races in terms of lap times?? That they actually didn't seek any help from outside expertise for other aspects of racing? Gotcha

 

[D'ultimate]

I'm not going to say he's right or wrong, but I am going to say that comments on behavior and what not are far more valuable than comparison times.

I can promise you any driver can get well under his "real world" times in a videogame given a few laps. In fact, I bet he probably did. Removing danger and fear will yield far better times. Simply saying "oh, it's close to my real world time" tells us nothing, other than the times are similar.

Regardless of what you said the time is important because its not one factor that goes into it. I'm not gonna go into detail about all that but suffice it to say the driver preface his comment about the lap times by saying he braked at the same points and accelerated at the same points in the game as he did in his real life pole run.

The game most certainly is "simulating" a great many things correctly to get it within that range.

 

[Wax Free Vanilla]

And the handling is supposed to be easy in Forza 3 ? Are you playing it with all assist on ? Are you even playing it ?

The handling in Forza 3 with all driver aids off is easier than Forza 2 with all driver aids on. The series has been neutered on Microsoft's orders. It's a decent arcade game with the ability to paint your cars - nothing more.

 

[Zaptruder]

I'm not going to say he's right or wrong, but I am going to say that comments on behavior and what not are far more valuable than comparison times.

I can promise you any driver can get well under his "real world" times in a videogame given a few laps. In fact, I bet he probably did. Removing danger and fear will yield far better times. Simply saying "oh, it's close to my real world time" tells us nothing, other than the times are similar.

Top level drivers are in fact... insane. They're top level because they push themselves and their machines. They've lost that inhibition that stops us from pushing as hard. And they're damn good at it to boot.

 

[PumpkinPie]

The handling in Forza seems more realistic than in GT to me, my brother agreed with me. Yes, I have played both and am a fan of both games. I do drive IRL too, I'm not just guessing that this is what cars should handle like.

 

[ShapeGSX]

The handling in Forza 3 with all driver aids off is easier than Forza 2 with all driver aids on. The series has been neutered on Microsoft's orders. It's a decent arcade game with the ability to paint your cars - nothing more.

With a controller, I would agree with you.

But then, there were tons of people saying that Forza 2 just wasn't realistic because they felt there wasn't enough traction.

The difference with Forza 3 vs Forza 2 is that there is a bit more interpretation going on with the controller. It is easier to counter-steer, and the gas and brake are eased into, even though you might slam them to 100%. When you have a very small range of motion, you really have to be careful how you interpret the input.

I just got a wheel, and Forza 3 has changed for me significantly. Now I have to modulate the throttle much more carefully than with the controller. And it takes a ton more steering input to counter-steer. It is actually very realistic with the wheel.

 

[Goldrusher]

So what you're implying is that every comment given, regardless of whether its from a race driver or a game designer or both, should be taken at face value? Gotcha

What I'm implying is that comments by drivers sponsored by Xbox (or PlayStation for that matter) should be taken with a grain of salt.

"Forza is the best!"
"No, GT is the best!"

 

[Psychotext]

You could all probably learn something from this pic...

...and as a huge fan of both games this is the first and last time I'll post in this fanboy filled shithole of a thread.

 

[skyfinch]

What I'm implying is that comments by drivers sponsored by Xbox (or PlayStation for that matter) should be taken with a grain of salt.

"Forza is the best!"
"No, GT is the best!"

Loeb's arm is all blurry. Xbox winner....

 

[mujun]

What I'm implying is that comments by drivers sponsored by Xbox (or PlayStation for that matter) should be taken with a grain of salt.

The same as comments by the designers of the games.

 

[Zaptruder]

The handling in Forza seems more realistic than in GT to me, my brother agreed with me. Yes, I have played both and am a fan of both games. I do drive IRL too, I'm not just guessing that this is what cars should handle like.

Details? How so? Do you play with wheels or controllers? What settings do you use in both games?

How much track racing experience do you have?