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[hamchan]

You know, you can just not press the rewind button and remind yourself that you are a goddamn god.

The rest of us will play the game in a way that we enjoy it and doesn't raise our blood pressure.

True that but I have bad willpower, my fault not the game's, I know.

Also you guys can play the game however you want, I was only giving reasons why I like to not rewind.

 

[iam220]

You know, you can just not press the rewind button and remind yourself that you are a goddamn god.

The rest of us will play the game in a way that we enjoy it and doesn't raise our blood pressure.

Because if it's in the game than they won't have the discipline not to use it! Afterwards they'll beat themselves up for robbing themselves of any sense of accomplishment they they may have otherwise gotten ..... makes sense ... rite?

 

[shinnn]

Except what I said is completely true. You do not prefer Gran Turismo's more accurate, less forgiving driving model.

That's fine, not everyone is looking for a game that handles in an accurate manner. Games like Burnout are very popular for this reason.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVkxSZoHbYY

from the same guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7pGdmfl6uM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr2us7TpKqI

i'm pretty sure that he will find something to nitpicking about GT5 physics.

 

[Redbeard]

Yes but your condescending use of exaggeration is inflammatory to say the least. You are acting as if nobody can have a legitimate opinion other than yourself, even if they back it up.

I've been playing the GT games all my life, I've owned every one, GT5 is not as good a sim as Forza, in my opinion. They both feel excellent to me, although little faults in 5s driving model annoy me, whereas I feel Forza 3 has it spot on. I've already expressed my full feelings on the game in both threads and by and large they were overwhelmingly positive, but pretending Forza is an arcade racer with no basis in simulation racing is just being a dick.

You come across as desperate when your posts make so little sense. Formulate a proper argument as to why GTs physics are superior to Forzas.

...

but slotting Forza 3 back in this weekend was a breath of fresh air. All assists off, Forza's cars just feel more alive, at times GTs just decide to randomly oversteer, and it's definitely a problem with the game, I've had a close friend comment on it too. With Forza I can manage to wrestle the car into staying where I want it.

Of course you can wrestle the car into staying where you want, just like other arcade racers. This does not mean that Forza is more accurate, in fact, quite the opposite.

 

[Arnie]

from the same guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7pGdmfl6uM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr2us7TpKqI

i'm pretty sure that he will find something to nitpicking about GT5 physics.

:lol Prologue title in the first video. This guy seems like a trustworthy source.

 

[Stallion Free]

Because if it's in the game than they won't have the discipline not to use it! Afterwards they'll beat themselves up for robbing themselves of any sense of accomplishment they they may have otherwise gotten ..... makes sense ... rite?

There is no rational defense for it not being an option. It can clearly be balanced, Forza 3 proved that with how it's use effects your scoreboard rank. Either Kaz is an elitist douchebag or they had problems implementing it and he is still an elitist douchebag only this time he can't admit that they failed.

In a game so thoroughly focused on giving you options, the fact that they willfully hate on this being an option seems rather strange.

 

[Arnie]

Of course you can wrestle the car into staying where you want, just like other arcade racers. This does not mean that Forza is more accurate, in fact, quite the opposite.

And why are GT5s physics superior? You've yet to say, have you even played the game?

You clearly misunderstood my point about Forza. If you think Forza is an arcade racer then there is no hope for you, you're simply a troll. PC sim outlets such as ISR commented on Forza's remarkably accurate physics when the game was released, I trust them more than your petty jibes.

You act butthurt and irrational. As a driver, I think Forza's car physics are more realistic than GT5s. I still think GT5 is excellent, but I agree with the critics on this one, Forza 3 is a superior game.

 

[EagleEyes]

And why are GT5s physics superior? You've yet to say, have you even played the game?

You clearly misunderstood my point about Forza. If you think Forza is an arcade racer then there is no hope for you, you're simply a troll. PC sim outlets such as ISR commented on Forza's remarkably accurate physics when the game was released, I trust them more than your petty jibes.

You act butthurt and irrational. As a driver, I think Forza's car physics are more realistic than GT5s. I still think GT5 is excellent, but I agree with the critics on this one, Forza 3 is a superior game.

I don't know why you continue to waste your time on this dude. I would just move on and be the better person.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

I don't know why you continue to waste your time on this dude.

He's fallen into the trap that is this thread!

 

[mil6es]

As a driver, I think Forza's car physics are more realistic than GT5s. I still think GT5 is excellent

as you have asked him, I ask you, why do you think Forza's physics are more realistic than GT5's?

I myself think (so do many others) physics is where GT5 has truly 1up'd the competition (yes that includes Forza) I find GT5's physics comparable with liveforspeeds physics model in the way it does so many things right such as the weight of the car and how its distributed through the wheels, also the behavior of the car in high speed turns is so spot on, the back just wanting to break loose under the power.

again not to say F3's physics is anyway bad its just alittle to dumbed down in my books, case-in-point I took a standard F50 with stock tires and gave it full throttle and started to weave in and out, but the tires would not break loose at all!!! what i'm trying to say is all the cars have way to much grip.

 

[hamchan]

And why are GT5s physics superior? You've yet to say, have you even played the game?

You clearly misunderstood my point about Forza. If you think Forza is an arcade racer then there is no hope for you, you're simply a troll. PC sim outlets such as ISR commented on Forza's remarkably accurate physics when the game was released, I trust them more than your petty jibes.

You act butthurt and irrational. As a driver, I think Forza's car physics are more realistic than GT5s. I still think GT5 is excellent, but I agree with the critics on this one, Forza 3 is a superior game.

The only reason you gave is that you randomly oversteer sometimes in GT5 and I haven't experienced that at all so I can't agree with you there.

 

[brain_stew]

That's the thing though, if you screw up on the last lap of a race then you have failed the endurance test right? Feels more rewarding to know I legitimately beat a race, to me anyways.

Then don't use it. No one is holding a gun to you head.

 

[hamchan]

Then don't use it. No one is holding a gun to you head.

Other people have covered this already.

 

[Shaneus]

There is no rational defense for it not being an option. It can clearly be balanced, Forza 3 proved that with how it's use effects your scoreboard rank. Either Kaz is an elitist douchebag or they had problems implementing it and he is still an elitist douchebag only this time he can't admit that they failed.

In a game so thoroughly focused on giving you options, the fact that they willfully hate on this being an option seems rather strange.

It must be a buffering/streaming thing with GT... possibly the same reason you can't even rewind replays? That's a massive oversight in itself, especially considering if you miss that particular photo opportunity by a second or two you have to restart the whole replay again.

But of course, why would you include rewind in the replay for taking photos? You should just learn how to stop replays better, you'll get more satisfaction that way. I'm sick of people rewinding their replays in Forza 3 just to take good race photos. :lol

 

[learnedhand]

There is no rational defense for it not being an option. It can clearly be balanced, Forza 3 proved that with how it's use effects your scoreboard rank. Either Kaz is an elitist douchebag or they had problems implementing it and he is still an elitist douchebag only this time he can't admit that they failed.

I wouldn't mind rewind if it was in practice mode only, but I don't want it anywhere neat the career mode. Have no use for leaderboards, so whatever.

I liken it to Demons Souls. I know if I make a single mistake I'll have to start the whole level over again. It can be frustrating and tense...but oh so rewarding.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

as you have asked him, I ask you, why do you think Forza's physics are more realistic than GT5's?

I myself think (so do many others) physics is where GT5 has truly 1up'd the competition (yes that includes Forza) I find GT5's physics comparable with liveforspeeds physics model in the way it does so many things right such as the weight of the car and how its distributed through the wheels, also the behavior of the car in high speed turns is so spot on, the back just wanting to break loose under the power.

again not to say F3's physics is anyway bad its just alittle to dumbed down in my books, case-in-point I took a standard F50 with stock tires and gave it full throttle and started to weave in and out, but the tires would not break loose at all!!! what i'm trying to say is all the cars have way to much grip.

well there are many other that think the opposite, they think that gt5 has not actually upped the competition. Unless we know what's under the hood in terms of the physics, and how it's being calculated their might not be any particular reason why one group thinks one way, and the the other thinks another way. The preferences might actually be just that, your preference to how the physics are implemented.

Until we know what's being calculated and a full right up is involved you can't say that the physics are better. Maybe people think that cars in gt are on butter and there's not enough traction, maybe they think corners feel better in forza, maybe their particular car handles more realistically in one model versus another and that's their basis.

again not to say GT5's physics is anyway bad its just a little to dumbed down in many other peoples books.

 

[LordPhoque]

That's fine, and it is rewarding, but not everyone has the time to do a 40 lap race over.

What Turn 10 should have done is put the "rewind" option in the assists menu, for people who want to have it turned on in-game or not.

Yeah, never understood why it was "mandatory" (in before "you're not forced to use it").

 

[scandisk_]

from the same guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7pGdmfl6uM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr2us7TpKqI

i'm pretty sure that he will find something to nitpicking about GT5 physics.

GT5 prologue? kthanks :lol

ask gek again on what's his thoughts on GT5's handling physics

 

[Stallion Free]

I wouldn't mind rewind if it was in practice mode only, but I don't want it anywhere neat the career mode. Have no use for leaderboards, so whatever.

I liken it to Demons Souls. I know if I make a single mistake I'll have to start the whole level over again. It can be frustrating and tense...but oh so rewarding.

Holy shit, do you not understand what an option is? I mean this is fucking insane that people can't seem to wrap their minds around a feature being an option.

And I would have enjoyed Demon Souls more if there was a non-slam-your-dick-in-a-door mode, you know AS AN OPTION.

 

[mil6es]

well there are many other that think the opposite, they think that gt5 has not actually upped the competition. Unless we know what's under the hood in terms of the physics, and how it's being calculated their might not be any particular reason why one group thinks one way, and the the other thinks another way. The preferences might actually be just that, your preference to how the physics are implemented.

Until we know what's being calculated and a full right up is involved you can't say that the physics are better. Maybe people think that cars in gt are on butter and there's not enough traction, maybe they think corners feel better in forza, maybe their particular car handles more realistically in one model versus another and that's their basis.

again not to say GT5's physics is anyway bad its just a little to dumbed down in many other peoples books.

right......so gist of it is, people opinions are peoples opinions and cant be verified but heres some more opinions...

 

[les papillons sexuels]

right......

right.

 

[-viper-]

The driving model in Forza 3 feels great although it does feel pretty damn forgiving. It's practically impossible to lose complete control of your car in the game. Cars appear to have insane levels of grip in the game.

 

[Shaneus]

I'm still curious as to why GT5 can have such (seemingly) awesome physics yet it can't display any telemetry. Surely all that info is on tap?

 

[hamchan]

Good idea for Forza 4 to have rewind as an option in assists.

 

[LordPhoque]

The driving model in Forza 3 feels great although it does feel pretty damn forgiving. It's practically impossible to lose complete control of your car in the game.

What ? Are you serious ? With all aids maybe.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

right......so gist of it is, people opinions are peoples opinions and cant be verified but heres some more opinions...

Not at all, I was pointing out how dumb you sounded with that last sentence. You're clearly opinionated, snuck in a small jab at the forza physics and then continued to think you're right.

Peoples opinions can be verified, we just need to know what's actually being calculated by both games and how that's being implemented. Things like the steering assist video is a good start, it's not something I've noticed myself, but it always helps to have something like that verified.

My point is that you're acting as if you know the physics in GT is better, but provide no proof other then subjective opinion, insult both the game, and the people who do think the physics is better then continue on being ignorant. People can say the exact opposite and be just as correct.

 

[mil6es]

What ? Are you serious ? With all aids maybe.

F50 > All aids off > 60mph > Full Throttle > Weave


see if the tires break loose then come back

Not at all, I was pointing out how dumb you sounded with that last sentence. You're clearly opinionated, snuck in a small jab at the forza physics and then continued to think you're right.

Peoples opinions can be verified, we just need to know what's actually being calculated by both games and how that's being implemented. Things like the steering assist video is a good start, it's not something I've noticed myself, but it always helps to have something like that verified.

My point is that you're acting as if you know the physics in GT is better, but provide no proof other then subjective opinion, insult both the game, and the people who do think the physics is better then continue on being ignorant. People can say the exact opposite and be just as correct.

WOW :lol maybe you missed it the first time so i'll quote myself

I myself think (so do many others) physics is where GT5 has truly 1up'd the competition (yes that includes Forza) I find GT5's physics comparable with liveforspeeds physics model in the way it does so many things right such as the weight of the car and how its distributed through the wheels, also the behavior of the car in high speed turns is so spot on, the back just wanting to break loose under the power.

again not to say F3's physics is anyway bad its just alittle to dumbed down in my books, case-in-point I took a standard F50 with stock tires and gave it full throttle and started to weave in and out, but the tires would not break loose at all!!! what i'm trying to say is all the cars have way to much grip.

:lol :lol

 

[Chrange]

Good idea for Forza 4 to have rewind as an option in assists.

It already is an option. You don't HAVE to use it, in fact you're rewarded for not using it with a non-tainted time on the leaderboards!

 

[LordPhoque]

F50 > All aids off > 60mph > Full Throttle > Weave


see if the tires break loose then come back

I lose the control of my car very often in FM3, especially with GT1/GT2 cars.
Play the game and come back.

 

[user_nat]

It already is an option. You don't HAVE to use it, in fact you're rewarded for not using it with a non-tainted time on the leaderboards!

Problem with the leaderboard punishment is that it is pretty much impossible to not get a tainted time when playing with other cars (because of drafting).

In time trial it works as a punishment though.

 

[hamchan]

It already is an option. You don't HAVE to use it, in fact you're rewarded for not using it with a non-tainted time on the leaderboards!

I mean so you don't even have the option to use it during the race, even if you're tempted to, for weak willed people like me. Basically on option for an option, nothing wrong with that.

 

[metareferential]

In time trial it works as a punishment though.

And that's were all the hot lapping is done.

 

[mil6es]

I lose the control of my car very often in FM3, especially with GT1/GT2 cars.
Play the game and come back.

:lol defensive

yep I amassed 810 achievement points without playing the game at all :lol :lol :lol

 

[Chrange]

I mean so you don't even have the option to use it during the race, even if you're tempted to, for weak willed people like me. Basically on option for an option, nothing wrong with that.

But then you'd KNOW it was there in the option menu...just waiting for you to enable it. Then you'd have to bitch that it was there at all, because obviously you can't stop YOURSELF from holding a gun to your own head, which is why you're getting bad lap times to begin with and why you're tempted to use the rewind...

Such a vicious cycle. :lol

 

[RSTEIN]

Peoples opinions can be verified, we just need to know what's actually being calculated by both games and how that's being implemented. Things like the steering assist video is a good start, it's not something I've noticed myself, but it always helps to have something like that verified.

This is the key missing element in the comparison IMO. Physics 'feel' is highly subjective. Nobody here can speak to physics as probably 1 or 2 people here have driven any of the exotics featured in either game. We need numbers, raw numbers that tell us exactly which game is cranking out the most stuff.

 

[user_nat]

And that's were all the hot lapping is done.

Yeah I know, I was just saying that having a mark against your name in the leaderboard isn't a reason not to use rewind in a regular race.

So for the people who don't want to rewind and have no self control, it could be a problem.

I don't see the problem with rewinding though, it's the reason why Forza 3 is the greatest sim racer I've played.

 

[Nafai1123]

How would replay work for license tests? It would make it far too easy to get golds.

I wouldn't mind it as an option, but I get why kaz is hesitant to put it in. GT has always been brutal, that's one of the reasons it's so rewarding. If it was supposed to be more casual, why not add other options like the ability to adjust how quickly time passes in races like 24hr lemans?

The whole point of gt mode is to feel like you've EARNED how far you've progressed. If other people are beating the career using shortcuts i think it would piss me off that they didn't really earn it. Why should they get to drive the best cars before me?

 

[theignoramus]

There is no rational defense for it not being an option. It can clearly be balanced, Forza 3 proved that with how it's use effects your scoreboard rank. Either Kaz is an elitist douchebag or they had problems implementing it and he is still an elitist douchebag only this time he can't admit that they failed.

It'll cost him dearly in the sales department, no doubt.

 

[LordPhoque]

:lol defensive

yep I amassed 810 achievement points without playing the game at all :lol :lol :lol

It's more sad then, playing the game that much but being too blind/fanboy to recognize obvious facts... are you seriously saying you can't loose the control of your car in this game ? It happens all the time with racing cars if you don't drive properly.

 

[chubigans]

So another site posted a review:

http://www.gamesradar.com/ps3/gran-...a-20101125101232492010/g-20070711154452396099

And what I said in the review thread applies here, too:

Just read the GamesRadar review...and it's a legitimate opinion IMO. I'm having a blast with the game, and it's easily my GOTY...I don't see any racer near GT5...but at the same time I understand completely what he's saying, and he's not wrong.

The comparison to Forza and it's ability to have all "premium" cars has always been a bit flaky to me though. From Forza 1 to Forza 2, there were over 100 cars added with a majority being ported over from the original Xbox game to the 360. And because the Xbox was a nice powerful piece of tech, it wasn't really a big deal- the cars still looked good.

The jump from PS2 to PS3 is nowhere near as "easy", as shown by the standard cars in GT5. Polyphony essentially had to throw everything away and start fresh with GT5. And when they couldn't get to the level of cars and tracks from the PS2 version, they just threw all the PS2 assets in there anyways.

Does it hurt the overall "cohesiveness" of GT5? Yes it does. But consider the alternative. Look at Grand Theft Auto IV- a game that's miles apart graphically from GTAIII but much, much less things to do (rampages, medical games, etc.) Or the newest Final Fantasy. These were games that were hampered by the new HD era of gaming- getting a game to have that next gen feel but at the same time sacrificing much of the original game's qualities due to the budget and time frame.

Polyphony did the right thing for gamers by supplementing GT5 with older assets to create an enormous amount of depth. A year from now there's not going to be many people talking about GT5's graphical package, but there sure as hell going to be people still playing the game. And that's really what matters.

 

[Shaneus]

It'll cost him dearly in the sales department, no doubt.

Maybe not with GT5, but let me tell you, there'll be a lot more people that don't get GT6 as soon after launch as GT5 (if at all), no matter how polished it is... purely because of this release.

Once bitten, twice shy.

 

[theignoramus]

Maybe not with GT5, but let me tell you, there'll be a lot more people that don't get GT6 as soon after launch as GT5 (if at all), no matter how polished it is... purely because of this release.

Once bitten, twice shy.

Just like with Gears of War, right?

 

[RSTEIN]

Is it better than Forza Motorsport 3? No. Forza may look more sterile, but it gives the user so much input, both in deciding what they want to do and what they want their car to be like, GT suddenly looks restrictive. Both feature roll-overs and crazily-realistic physics simulation in their latest builds, but Forza's class system for upgrades ensures you're never over/underpowered in races. Oh, and every car has a cockpit view. Sterile though it is, Forza has far less faffing around when you don't want to faff and just as much when you do. You can even paint the Mona Lisa on your car, which is something GT5 simply doesn't allow.

Yes! Another vs. verdict for the list. Anyone find any pro-GT5 ones?

 

[Lafiel]

Good idea for Forza 4 to have rewind as an option in assists.

Err wasn't it always an option in the assists? when i first started forza 3 i turned that shit off, although i don't remember how.

 

[skyfinch]

Err wasn't it always an option in the assists? when i first started forza 3 i turned that shit off, although i don't remember how.

No. Maybe you're thinking of the "rewind" indicator that pops up whenever you make a mistake. You can turn that thing off, but not the actual rewind function.

 

[mil6es]

It's more sad then, playing the game that much but being too blind/fanboy to recognize obvious facts... are you seriously saying you can't loose the control of your car in this game ? It happens all the time with racing cars if you don't drive properly.

your killing me really :lol :lol :lol

1 I never said you could not loose control of a race car, any any of my posts, I said

I took a standard F50 with stock tires and gave it full throttle and started to weave in and out, but the tires would not break loose at all!!!

no mention of not being able to loose control of all cars in the game is there???

moving on if you yourself have played the game, please explain why race cars on a whole behave like they have way to much toe added to the front wheels I.e are overly sensitive and skiddish going in a straight line. serious question as you seem to think I have no knowledge of this game. :lol

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Holy shit, do you not understand what an option is? I mean this is fucking insane that people can't seem to wrap their minds around a feature being an option.

And I would have enjoyed Demon Souls more if there was a non-slam-your-dick-in-a-door mode, you know AS AN OPTION.

Cool, good thing there's most likely a game out there that's for you. Keep Demon's Souls risky (it's not hard, just unforgiving) and GT the way they are, while having awesome forgiving games that suit you and many more people. I like being in those dark areas knowing I could easily die and fearing the track back for my souls (travel light, spend souls and you won't have to worry). For GT, being on the last few laps and in a heated battle for first, you start to lose control of the car and your heart drops at the thought of losing the race. In a game like grid it's nothing, rewind will always be there for you.

Not every race is worth posting a time for. I'd most likely abuse it, just like I would if it was allowed in license. Those VW vans wouldn't be hated half as much with rewind. I'm going to turn off the line now though.

Right now I'm abusing the racing lines. I meant to turn it off but not having to learn the tracks helps me level up. The Lamborghini Tuscan night race would have been impossible for me without it (that's how auto pilot I am with this exploit now). Just gotta jump and do it, not looking back.

I like getting stumped in license or the special events then getting gold. Feels good.

Ploid's title [Van Slayer]

 

[LordPhoque]

your killing me really :lol :lol :lol
1 I never said you could not loose control of a race car, any any of my posts, I said
no mention of not being able to loose control of all cars in the game is there???

And I was answering to viper who said you could never lose control of cars in this game... you were the one to answer me with F50 stuff so I assumed you agreed with him.

 

[enzo_gt]

So another site posted a review:

http://www.gamesradar.com/ps3/gran-...a-20101125101232492010/g-20070711154452396099

And what I said in the review thread applies here, too:

Just read the GamesRadar review...and it's a legitimate opinion IMO. I'm having a blast with the game, and it's easily my GOTY...I don't see any racer near GT5...but at the same time I understand completely what he's saying, and he's not wrong.

The comparison to Forza and it's ability to have all "premium" cars has always been a bit flaky to me though. From Forza 1 to Forza 2, there were over 100 cars added with a majority being ported over from the original Xbox game to the 360. And because the Xbox was a nice powerful piece of tech, it wasn't really a big deal- the cars still looked good.

The jump from PS2 to PS3 is nowhere near as "easy", as shown by the standard cars in GT5. Polyphony essentially had to throw everything away and start fresh with GT5. And when they couldn't get to the level of cars and tracks from the PS2 version, they just threw all the PS2 assets in there anyways.

Does it hurt the overall "cohesiveness" of GT5? Yes it does. But consider the alternative. Look at Grand Theft Auto IV- a game that's miles apart graphically from GTAIII but much, much less things to do (rampages, medical games, etc.) Or the newest Final Fantasy. These were games that were hampered by the new HD era of gaming- getting a game to have that next gen feel but at the same time sacrificing much of the original game's qualities due to the budget and time frame.

Polyphony did the right thing for gamers by supplementing GT5 with older assets to create an enormous amount of depth. A year from now there's not going to be many people talking about GT5's graphical package, but there sure as hell going to be people still playing the game. And that's really what matters.

GTA IV was a design choice though, it didn't feel rushed to me though, whereas GT5 and FFXIII were arguably rushed, probably pressured by rising development costs + Sony as well. I wouldn't call it the right thing to do, because if that was the right thing to do they would have at least noticed the tearing and shadow errors and weird pixellation errors through a simple playtest of the game, and would not have shipped a game as such for a developer striving for perfection like PD. IF PD had made the PERFECT choice, this thread wouldn't exist and Forza would be unanimously considered inferior. Unfortunately this isn't the case.

 

[shinnn]

F50 > All aids off > 60mph > Full Throttle > Weave


see if the tires break loose then come back

Just did it... The car don't lose control.

But did the same for the F430, the 599 fiorano, GTO and F40.. All of them lose grip. I used a joypad so I think the instability is way more intense with the wheel.

As I never driven a F50 I don't know how realistic it is. Have you ever driven one to compare?

edit: Top Gear in the F50