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[Seanspeed]

Another good comparison would be one lap at Nordschleife with the Nissan GT-R '07, stock tyres (?).

Real world record is 7:29. I think most people have managed to squeeze just below that - 7:27 or so in GT5, my personal record so far is 7:31. Record was made on a semi-wet track though - and no fear of dying...

Could someone test that in F4 (when you get the game)?

These laptime comparisons suck.

I remember seeing a video of the Ferrari F1 car around Suzuka being almost spot-on, lap-time wise, with a real-life video of a Ferrari F1 car going around. The video was paraded around as proof of GT's realism. The end lap-time was similar, but only because the flaws of GT's modeling of the car and its physics just *happened* to balance out over the lap. At times, the car was further behind than in real-life, and at others it caught up.

Also, these comparisons assume the track is absolutely perfectly modeled, weather conditions were modeled to be exactly the same as they were when the lap was done in real-life, blah blah blah. Many things can distort lap times and both games are flawed in regards to physics. You want to get as close as possible to real-life, then go for a high-end sim like iRacing or something. These console games both come with compromises.

And I think a lot of people will be pleasantly surprised at the improvements in FM4. I'm sure some people will forever use FM2 and FM3 as their basis for comparisons, as thats the nature of fanboyism, but hopefully some of you will give it an honest, open-minded look.

 

[test_account]

again, wheres the comparison with real-life? time laps? that's what you use to compare how the cars handle?

Take the F40 as a example. I never drive one, but it is known as a awesome car to drive, powerfull but awesome handling. A lot of grip.

In GT5 you can't make a turn without the car starting to loose grip.

Yep, compared to time laps, the fastest time set on that track with that particular car. Meaning that the guy who drove the real car on on that track is probably a quite skilled driver.

 

[phosphor112]

again, wheres the comparison with real-life? time laps? that's what you use to compare how the cars handle?

Take the F40 as a example. I never drive one, but it is known as a awesome car to drive, powerfull but awesome handling. A lot of grip.

In GT5 you can't make a turn without the car starting to loose grip.

....erm...

wut

thu

fuck.

Just cuz it has a spoiler in the back doesn't mean it's got a lot of grip. I haven't even touched a car as powerful as the F40, but I know that with RWD cars that have even half that fucking torque can't keep "grip" easily.

Is there any graphical comparisons between GT5 and F4 like there were with GT5 and F3? I remember there being videos with framerate comparisons and the like for tracks and vehicles that are the same in both games.

Here are several.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31560845&postcount=12812

 

[les papillons sexuels]

how do you go slower in a videogame? That shit blows my mind. A person IRL has so much more stuff to deal with, then a person in a videogame, like the fear of death.

I figure the more realistic numbers for a videogame would be much faster, no?

 

[test_account]

how do you go slower in a videogame? That shit blows my mind. A person IRL has so much more stuff to deal with, then a person in a videogame, like the fear of death.

I figure the more realistic numbers would be faster, no?

Not necessarily. I think proffesional drivers tries to push the car to its limit around the track. They know very closely how fast they can drive around specific corners etc.

 

[JWong]

....erm...

wut

thu

fuck.

Just cuz it has a spoiler in the back doesn't mean it's got a lot of grip. I haven't even touched a car as powerful as the F40, but I know that with RWD cars that have even half that fucking torque can't keep "grip" easily.

A spoiler can provide a ton of grip with aerodynamics pushing the car body down.

It's how F1 cars work.

 

[phosphor112]

how do you go slower in a videogame? That shit blows my mind. A person IRL has so much more stuff to deal with, then a person in a videogame, like the fear of death.

I figure the more realistic numbers for a videogame would be much faster, no?

Input on a VG isn't as accurate as input in real life. It's like the Top Gear test track challenge GT just had. It was driving an SLS AMG and beating David Coulthard's time around the track. It was very difficult to do that... this is an F1 driver here that we go up against, but of course, several hundred, if not thousand, people beat his time. Similar times should be an accurate reading on the simulation of the game vs real life, but even though games have less things to factor in... like dying, you have to keep in mind, these lap times are set by professionals that have been racing for years.

A spoiler can provide a ton of grip with aerodynamics pushing the car body down.

It's how F1 cars work.

That doesn't make a car inherently "grippy." The car has to be at speed for the spoiler and wing to take into affect, and until it goes fast enough for the downforce of the aerokit to negate any lift, let alone torque, it'll slide around if not throttled correctly...

Just like an F1.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

Input on a VG isn't as accurate as input in real life. It's like the Top Gear test track challenge GT just had. It was driving an SLS AMG and beating David Coulthard's time around the track. It was very difficult to do that... this is an F1 driver here that we go up against, but of course, several hundred, if not thousand, people beat his time. Similar times should be an accurate reading on the simulation of the game vs real life, but even though games have less things to factor in... like dying, you have to keep in mind, these lap times are set by professionals that have been racing for years.

That doesn't change the fact that, like you said :

"several hundred, if not thousand, people beat his time"

And these arn't f1 racers. Videogames have their own intricacies, and knowing how to abuse them leads players to times that are faster even without any real world experience.

Unless I'm missing your point, you seemto be arguing that the times should be faster in videogames too...

 

[phosphor112]

That doesn't change the fact that, like you said :

"several hundred, if not thousand, people beat his time"

And these arn't f1 racers. Videogames have their own intricacies, and knowing how to abuse them leads players to times that are faster even without any real world experience.

Unless I'm missing your point, you seemto be arguing that the times should be faster in videogames too...

That's what I'm saying, but as I also said, these record times are set by professionals, and those people who make these time comparison articles often don't put as much time driving in such situations as sim racers or professional racers.

TL;DR:
Sim times from "hardcore" sim racers < RL times from professionals
Sim times from casual sim racers ~ RL times from professionals

 

[JWong]

That doesn't make a car inherently "grippy." The car has to be at speed for the spoiler and wing to take into affect, and until it goes fast enough for the downforce of the aerokit to negate any lift, let alone torque, it'll slide around if not throttled correctly...

Just like an F1.

Well there you go. Spoilers provide grip. Your post makes it sound like spoilers never provide grip at all.

 

[statham]

http://n4g.com/news/654707/lazygamer-compares-lap-times-forza-3-vs-gt5-vs-real-life

FM2

FM3


FM4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2N98Fx5Oec&t=20m27s

this is a game, a game you can restart at any time, play 10 times the same course in a day. the game player will take chances that a re-life driver will not, because hey you can start over as with the real life driver hes thinking about crashing, cost to fix his car, dieing, sponsorships .. of course he will play it a little more safe the the best GT/Forza players who will take a corner faster then they should and pull it off.

 

[phosphor112]

Well there you go. Spoilers provide grip. Your post makes it sound like spoilers never provide grip at all.

The thing is he makes it sound like it ALWAYS has grip, and as I said, even F1s (which are designed around aerodynamics) aren't easy to control.

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

again, wheres the comparison with real-life? time laps? that's what you use to compare how the cars handle?

Take the F40 as a example. I never drive one, but it is known as a awesome car to drive, powerfull but awesome handling. A lot of grip.

In GT5 you can't make a turn without the car starting to loose grip.

If you actually read the whole thing you will see that the real world time is the ONLY bolded time, bar a driver who has driven the cars in both real life and video game comparing lap times is the closest thing to determining how each game presents car handling.

 

[Xanadu]

The thing is he makes it sound like it ALWAYS has grip, and as I said, even F1s (which are designed around aerodynamics) aren't easy to control.

this

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

These laptime comparisons suck.

I remember seeing a video of the Ferrari F1 car around Suzuka being almost spot-on, lap-time wise, with a real-life video of a Ferrari F1 car going around. The video was paraded around as proof of GT's realism. The end lap-time was similar, but only because the flaws of GT's modeling of the car and its physics just *happened* to balance out over the lap. At times, the car was further behind than in real-life, and at others it caught up.

Also, these comparisons assume the track is absolutely perfectly modeled, weather conditions were modeled to be exactly the same as they were when the lap was done in real-life, blah blah blah. Many things can distort lap times and both games are flawed in regards to physics. You want to get as close as possible to real-life, then go for a high-end sim like iRacing or something. These console games both come with compromises.

And I think a lot of people will be pleasantly surprised at the improvements in FM4. I'm sure some people will forever use FM2 and FM3 as their basis for comparisons, as thats the nature of fanboyism, but hopefully some of you will give it an honest, open-minded look.

Don't tell me that you are serious?.

 

[NullPointer]

TL;DR:
Sim times from "hardcore" sim racers < RL times from professionals
Sim times from casual sim racers ~ RL times from professionals

I'm just going to leave this here:

Top Gear, Can you learn a track on a Playstation

 

[LamerDeluxe]

I'm just going to leave this here:

Top Gear, Can you learn a track on a Playstation

Oh Youtube, you so random. (can't be arsed to get my headphones).

 

[phosphor112]

this

But it's grippy!

I'm just going to leave this here:

Top Gear, Can you learn a track on a Playstation

That's pretty much what I'm saying, you can learn the track, and with the physics simulation light years ahead of GT4, people can learn these tracks well.

 

[shinnn]

If you play like in FM maybe, try treating the car with some respect an learn how to drive it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aAPEr4ZzMA

You using this as an example just make my point. If you need an exagerrated example to explain GT5 cars behavior...

 

[phosphor112]

You using this as an example just make my point. If you need an exagerrated example to explain GT5 cars behavior...

Keep talking like you know everything about cars. You might actually some day. =]

 

[Pepto]

Keep talking like you know everything about cars. You might actually some day. =]

 

[test_account]

You using this as an example just make my point. If you need an exagerrated example to explain GT5 cars behavior...

He showed a real life example on how easy a car can spin out. If that is how GT5 behaves, then it is realistic.

 

[Snubbers]

I'm another that finds allow this real world comparison times stupid, the tracks are totally different in terms of surface profiles, and a whole history of other little things like exact Tyre types etc.. Even using the same driver is flawed for obvious reasons..

And speaking of tyres, didn't the SLS seasonal have to have comfort sorts to try and even things up, the normal tyres fitted, sports hard/medium made the lap times way quicker inn-game...

Now, I actually don't mean that as proof of anything, other then its obvious that the differences between game and real life in terms of track time mean bugger all when it comes to physics..

The more people cling to lap times as any proof of superiority, the less credible they are to me.

 

[test_account]

I like to see real life comparisons, especially those videos where they show 2 videos at the same time, one with the game and one with real driving. It gives some indication on how accurate the game is compared to real life. But sure, there are indeed variables that are different between the game and real life, so it wont be a 1:1 situation between the two things.

 

[Snubbers]

I like to see real life comparisons, especially those videos where they show 2 videos at the same time, one with the game and one with real driving. It gives some indication on how accurate the game is compared to real life. But sure, there are indeed variables that are different between the game and real life, so it wont be a 1:1 situation between the two things.

Indeed, the crux being showing a car in both game/real life following the same line at approximately the same speed will look very similar.. but it doesn't actually prove much at all..

You only need see the SLS. Seasonal to see how even gimped with less grip, inevitably, loads of people still beat DC.. which would mean a physics fail in some peoples book, which isn't my view at all.

 

[Dibbz]

Take the F40 as a example. I never drive one, but it is known as a awesome car to drive, powerfull but awesome handling. A lot of grip.

A lot of grip.

lot of grip.

gripgripgripgripgripgripgripgripgripgripgripgripgripgrip

LOL.

Oh and every please shut the fuck up about GT not being close to reality in driving. There aint nothing closer to reality on consoles than GT5. Just ask this guy and countless other racing drivers.

Oh yeah sorry how can this be GT5 is nothing like real life right? There's no way anyone who plays it can learn tracks and learn to become a racing driver.

You Forza fanboys need to wake the fuck up because Forza is not a simulator. Come back when you have no fucking auto driving assists.

 

[phosphor112]

Indeed, the crux being showing a car in both game/real life following the same line at approximately the same speed will look very similar.. but it doesn't actually prove much at all..

You only need see the SLS. Seasonal to see how even gimped with less grip, inevitably, loads of people still beat DC.. which would mean a physics fail in some peoples book, which isn't my view at all.

The track wasn't dry when DC was driving.

 

[Metalmurphy]

LOL Dibbz. What an outburst


It's actually amazing how well all of the GT Academy winners are doing in the real life. Specially Lucas.

 

[shinnn]

He showed a real life example on how easy a car can spin out. If that is how GT5 behaves, then it is realistic.

Sorry, I just saw a guy making a mistake. That is not even an F40. What about someone driving a F40?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXVcCOlsols
"A monster that doesn't bites"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddmpANzWCHc

Are you seeing anyone losing grip like GT5? Also I can't hear the tires squealing in every damn corner.

 

[Dibbz]

Sorry MM but it's true.

The difference between GT and Forza.

GT Director Models GT on real life

Forza Director models Forza on other games

 

[Shaneus]

LOL.

Oh and every please shut the fuck up about GT not being close to reality in driving. There aint nothing closer to reality on consoles than GT5. Just ask this guy and countless other racing drivers.

You mean, the guy who is so obviously sponsored by PD/GT? Maybe we should ask Mark Webber what the best energy drink is

 

[JWong]

Well GT development is led by someone who has won serious races, and Forza... not so much.

Edit: Damn you Dibbz. Epic beaten with pics. ;_;

 

[chrislowe]

again, wheres the comparison with real-life? time laps? that's what you use to compare how the cars handle?

Take the F40 as a example. I never drive one, but it is known as a awesome car to drive, powerfull but awesome handling. A lot of grip.

In GT5 you can't make a turn without the car starting to loose grip.

Actually, the F40 is well known for its handling to be very unforgiving.
Its an 80ies car with turbos, and no electronics assisiting you what so ever.
It doesnt even have ABS, or Power assistence to the steering.

about the downforce cause its got a rearwing like in F1, well it hasnt.
F1 cars get most of the downforce from the undertray of the cars body.

cant find any real downforcenumbers for the F40, but im sure we can assume the F50
had more downforce then the F40, and the Enzo has twice the downforce of the F50.
(400kg vs almost 800kg in total at 300km/h)

so the F40 shouldnt be a easy to drive car in this game either.

 

[Metalmurphy]

You mean, the guy who is so obviously sponsored by PD/GT? Maybe we should ask Mark Webber what the best energy drink is

He means that guy that's now a pilot for Nissan thanks to GT Academy, is winning lots of races and is now driving freaking prototypes at 24 Hours LeMans.

 

[supersaw]

Another logical fallacy made by the people thinking the VG times should be shittons quicker is the fact that in a game even with the best Force Feedback wheel you have very very limited feedback compared to a real car. The G forces can tell a driver a lot and not feeling those directly and being able to react to them in split seconds would be just as much a penalty as the purported fear of death

Spoiler

F1 drivers do not fear death, that's why they're F1 drivers

.

 

[Dibbz]

Sorry, I just saw a guy making a mistake. That is not even an F40. What about someone driving a F40?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXVcCOlsols
"A monster that doesn't bites"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddmpANzWCHc

Are you seeing anyone losing grip like GT5? Also I can't hear the tires squealing in every damn corner.

Please shut the hell up already. You posted a clip from fifth gear where the guy driving does not even have a helmet on. Do you think he is actually pushing the car? FFS you are so thick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dvUhkdgMW4&feature=related#t=2m10s

There you go F40 at Tsukuba losing grip. Now please shut the fuck up.

 

[Snubbers]

The track wasn't dry when DC was driving.

It doesn't matter, that is the point! There are so many variables its futile putting any weight on time comparisons. I'm not knocking GT, or FM, just trying to stop people's making a flawed comparison one way or the other.. but judging by the meltdown above, perhaps its more entertaining to let it run..

 

[shinnn]

You Forza fanboys need to wake the fuck up because Forza is not a simulator. Come back when you have no fucking auto driving assists.

Come back when you can put +500hp to your car and drive safety without changing the brakes... lol

 

[Ploid 3.0]

He means that guy that's now a pilot for Nissan thanks to GT Academy, is winning lots of races and is now driving freaking prototypes at 24 Hours LeMans.

Whoa that's awesome, glad for him. Maybe they should recruit like this. More GT Academy searches.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Sorry, I just saw a guy making a mistake. That is not even an F40. What about someone driving a F40?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXVcCOlsols
"A monster that doesn't bites"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddmpANzWCHc

Are you seeing anyone losing grip like GT5? Also I can't hear the tires squealing in every damn corner.

Did you actually saw the entire video you just posted? lol

 

[shinnn]

Please shut the hell up already. You posted a clip from fifth gear where the guy driving does not even have a helmet on. Do you think he is actually pushing the car? FFS you are so thick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dvUhkdgMW4&feature=related#t=2m10s

There you go F40 at Tsukuba losing grip. Now please shut the fuck up.

You don't need to push hard the F40 to lose control in GT5, easily. That's the point. The same happens for various others cars. Tell me about the lotus elise challenge. lol

 

[Majanew]

Please shut the hell up already. You posted a clip from fifth gear where the guy driving does not even have a helmet on. Do you think he is actually pushing the car? FFS you are so thick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dvUhkdgMW4&feature=related#t=2m10s

There you go F40 at Tsukuba losing grip. Now please shut the fuck up.

Seriously, you should take a break. It's all about being fans and having fun with others in here about their racing game of choice.

 

[Metalmurphy]

You don't need to push hard the F40 to lose control in GT5, easily. That's the point. The same happens for various others cars. Tell me about the lotus elise challenge. lol

You must really suck at sims.


Also, Comfort: Hard tires.

 

[Dibbz]

Whoa that's awesome, glad for him. Maybe they should recruit like this. More GT Academy searches.

They are. They do this every year now.

shinnn what the matter can't handle that the F40 can actually lose grip? Have no response to it? MY GOD HOW IS THE F40 LOSING GRIP, IN FORZA IT IS SO GRIPPY. Nothing you say has any credibility what so ever now.

 

[Shaneus]

He means that guy that's now a pilot for Nissan thanks to GT Academy, is winning lots of races and is now driving freaking prototypes at 24 Hours LeMans.

Whoa that's awesome, glad for him. Maybe they should recruit like this. More GT Academy searches.

Yeah, that's pretty boss. Just didn't know the relevance because it was just a photo that was posted.

 

[Izayoi]

I nominate Dibbz for the angriest fanboy of the year award.

Damn, dude.

 

[watership]

LOL.

Oh and every please shut the fuck up about GT not being close to reality in driving. There aint nothing closer to reality on consoles than GT5. Just ask this guy and countless other racing drivers.

Oh yeah sorry how can this be GT5 is nothing like real life right? There's no way anyone who plays it can learn tracks and learn to become a racing driver.

You Forza fanboys need to wake the fuck up because Forza is not a simulator. Come back when you have no fucking auto driving assists.

This is a shitty troll thread but you're taking it too far. Being a troll and being a fanboy is one thing, but I'm pretty sure telling people to fuck off, and shut the fuck up is not acceptable, even here.

 

[shinnn]

They are. They do this every year now.

shinnn what the matter can't handle that the F40 can actually lose grip? Have no response to it? MY GOD HOW IS THE F40 LOSING GRIP, IN FORZA IT IS SO GRIPPY. Nothing you say has any credibility what so ever now.

Who said that F40 can't lose grip? I said the lack of grip is exaggerated in GT5. And the F40 has a lot of grip for such a powerfull car.

edit: I didn't even mentioned Forza lol. And yes, you can lose grip in the FM3 F40 lol.

 

[FStop7]

If anyone thinks you're going to get anything more than a degree of familiarity with the racing lines around a given track (assuming that the track is modeled correctly in the game) in either GT5 or Forza3 or Forza4 or Forza Turismo 999 then you should come do a track day and I promise you will leave laughing your head off at A) how much fun it is and B) how mistaken you were.

With all assists disabled both GT5 and Forza 4 (based on the demo) feel kind of like a real car in that it behaves somehwat like a real car would. But what's missing are the forces exerted on you, the driver. And the physical feedback from the car. And a million other things.

iRacing is probably the closest thing I've seen to reality, but even that is still missing a lot.

Honestly, the best 'simulator' is a go-kart. Karting introduces the physical stresses and other elements.

 

[Dibbz]

I nominate Dibbz for the angriest fanboy of the year award.

Damn, dude.

Is it my fault the guys bashing GT are not educated enough on cars to even come up with decent arguments? From the graphics are bad to F40's are not grippy to saying GT5 does not drive like real cars all the whilst GT has it's own program with Nissan to bring people that play GT to real motorsports.