-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35
- Thread starter bishoptl
- Start date
brotkasten
Member
You know, maybe I'm a bit too harsh here, but if you look at Turn10's ability to model tracks accurately, I'm not so sure if we wouldn't just get Spa in name only. Imagine a wide enough Eau Rouge, that has enough space for like four or five cars next to each other.Iknos said:
Spa is wonderous in F1 2010/11..
It suits fast, high downforce cars really well, that and Bathurst for the slightly slower stuff are my two most wanted tracks..
Well done PD..
As much as I'd like this news to kick T10 up the ass to release track DLC, I'm sure from what BadNed said, they are probably wanting to hold back their track WIP for FM5, or they'd have no new tracks..
It suits fast, high downforce cars really well, that and Bathurst for the slightly slower stuff are my two most wanted tracks..
Well done PD..
As much as I'd like this news to kick T10 up the ass to release track DLC, I'm sure from what BadNed said, they are probably wanting to hold back their track WIP for FM5, or they'd have no new tracks..
test_account
XP-39C²
Why do you feel sorry for him because of that? What type of intro would you make?Solal said:
And what imagination are you thinking about? What are you missing from GT5?
NullPointer
Member
I fell in love with it in Shift 1 and 2. Just a great high speed track. PD just got major points for including it in its first DLC.Snubbers said:
test_account said:
To me it's anything but genius... but i was ironic in answer to his post that was a bit ironic too.
I just find the intro really bad. But if people like it, fair enough.
The lack of imagination is patent in the game mechanics that have not changed since GT1... it's old and completly out of date.
The whole game presentation lacks modernity and don't give cars what they deserve (a black screen and a car turning? you can't really look at it... nothing to put any sex appeal on the cars)
The AI is still crap... which means the B spec mode is too.
The online is a total mess: ever tried autolog ? That IS what online should be.
Can you believe GT5 still has no leaderboards? This is crazy!
Slow menus that are still unfixed 10 months later.
Add framerate drops, massive screen tearing, ridiculously crap engine sounds for most cars (really: very few cars sound beasty...which is a shame considering how long players are complaining about it)...
90% of the game problems were patent after 15 minutes of play.
Seriously: this game was not produced and not thought. At all.
iKeepPlaying
Banned
Solal said:
I was going to answer seriously, but after that... it's not even worthy.
Troll detected.
SkylineRKR
Member
PD gets the car details right (The actual photomode renders are amazing), but everything around it seems to play second fiddle.
Its obvious that GT is losing terrain. If you go by scores, its going downhill after GT3. And if you go by sales and reception its likely the same. The way I see it, Forza is actually improving with each release while the same can't be said about GT.
Still, I find GT to be more addicting than Forza. GT5 had this stupid used car lot going on and I was hell bent on collecting some 'rare' cars. That was only possible because there were 1000 in the game, regardless of how poor a lot of them looked.
But the series does need change. I wouldn't mind a complete interface overhaul and the vicious Shift 2 AI and Autolog. I'm not asking for livery editors though, I think its a shitty gimmick myself. GT doesn't need to become arcade, but some added oomph would be nice. Hire Bizarre, let them design the interface and online portions (I think both PGR and Blur did well on these 2 topics). Let PD focus on the cars. Well, something like that.
Its obvious that GT is losing terrain. If you go by scores, its going downhill after GT3. And if you go by sales and reception its likely the same. The way I see it, Forza is actually improving with each release while the same can't be said about GT.
Still, I find GT to be more addicting than Forza. GT5 had this stupid used car lot going on and I was hell bent on collecting some 'rare' cars. That was only possible because there were 1000 in the game, regardless of how poor a lot of them looked.
But the series does need change. I wouldn't mind a complete interface overhaul and the vicious Shift 2 AI and Autolog. I'm not asking for livery editors though, I think its a shitty gimmick myself. GT doesn't need to become arcade, but some added oomph would be nice. Hire Bizarre, let them design the interface and online portions (I think both PGR and Blur did well on these 2 topics). Let PD focus on the cars. Well, something like that.
Solal said:
I think you'll find that most people that enjoy racing simulations, which you have neglected to mention, enjoy GT5's second to non physics compared to its competition that still has driving assists on.
For some reason, most detractors of GT are playing a game which is 10fps, frametears non stop, and has 90 minute loading screens. However for others, that can actual spit out good times in the game, don't seem to have the issue? Digital foundry went over GT5 and showed its frame rate dips, and propensity to tear when there is a heavy 1080p load, and others have found tearing at the top of the screen. Also, people manage to form racing leagues online, and actually play the game regularly, without it exploding.They are also able to notice the car screensavers, with your vehicle rendered in photo real backdrops, from different angles. Also, they are able to find the photomode, to where you can look at the car from any angle you'd desire.
GT isn't about not being able to handle 16 cars, open wheel vehicles, different weather types, so it has to make up for it by borrowing the competitions features. The vision for driving a beautiful car, on amazing tracks, is all that a Sim is really about. And GT always nails this. We are talking about a car sim here, not an arcade driving game the requires a harder sell to its audience, like controller less driving, or a milked license to try to appeal to people in the shows least viewed country.
Forza came up with the following after GT.
1. Top Gear
2. Image Based Lighting
3. Day/Night
4. 16 Vehicles
Yet you're going to pretend that GT is running out of ideas for its Car simulator? Please, its the leader, which is why it always manages to sell more units with a smaller console based audience than Forza. The game you're looking for/demanding GT to be, would be as appealing as Turn10 has found Forza's low sales. People that want flash and fluff by Grid/NFS. They aren't concerned with racing sims, which is probably why Turn10 kept the permanent assists on.
Problems with GT are its car roster, and non surround sound-sound setups. It requires subwoofers, and they should do a different setup for people who don't have those setups. But the nonsense about its presentation, is ridiculous. I just imagine you staring at a screen, not knowing where to go. While your little sister walks up next to you, and is able to start a race just fine.
I understand where you're coming from, but its just not GT that you want. You want another game, and you have that option, but it just seems that when given the option, most buy GT. As the desires you want, seem minor in the grand scheme of a game that produces an excellent sim, and photoreal car porn without the use of photoshop.
Solal said:
Everytime you mention GT5 in the forza thread. You're banned/Forwarded...Forza Community at its best?
Your point?
Everyone knows what a troll is. You are trolling. This is the thread for trolling & ownage, so keep it here.
iKeepPlaying
Banned
JWong said:
Yeah, I just got to that part in the thread.
Solal said:
Game mechanics. In a driving simulator. Not changed since the first entry.
What the fuck do you want? That you can literaly fly with the cars?
That's why I didn't bother to reply seriously your post. Because you should be more subtle at trolling.
H_Prestige
Banned
GT will only follow Forza when that series starts selling more than their's. Until then, they can only interpret the sales to mean they are doing a better job with GT than T10 is with Forza.
Absoludacrous
Member
This thread still depresses me more than any other thread I've ever read on these forums. Here we live in an age where consoles get not one, but two AAA racing games. Both are amazing, taking the genre and adding their own twists on community integration, features, ui, graphics, etc.
We should be living in a world where people can't believe they have this much racing content to chew through. Instead we having this gigantic thread of pointless dick waving and console loyalty.
We should be living in a world where people can't believe they have this much racing content to chew through. Instead we having this gigantic thread of pointless dick waving and console loyalty.
brotkasten
Member
But the AAA racing game on my console is better than the AAA racing game on your console. So please be quiet. Or something.Absoludacrous said:
Commedieu-> Great post mate. You managed to post very interesting comments and assertions on what GT is... but never answering the very concrete problems GT5 has.
Man, we are talking about a video game here...not some kind of elitist car religion.
And IF you see GT as some kind of masterpiece celebrating cars, then will you agree that many glorious cars are missing... when many crap cars got in.
I agree that, when it comes to driving (not racing) GT5 is unrivaled. You seem to think that it's enough... I don't.
Especially when many of the problems are not even technical ones (except framerate/tearing) but just conception ones. Or lazyness. Or condescendance.
yes, you can go and see any car in the photo mode: does it mean you should not be able to do it from your garage? Wouldn't it make more sense and be much faster? Especially when the loading times are so long. You seriuously think this capability is well implemented and user friendly ?
You talk about online racing leagues, but you can't deny this should be made easier by the game...Try autolog and you will see what a very well integrated online mode can add to the experience. EA did it, why not PD?
And what about the lack of leaderboards? You think having them would betray GT's philosophy?
Another example of PD lack of focus : you do some time attack on a track and you want want to change your car, because, as a fan of cars, you want to compare their performances (that s something that car fans do in my world)...you have to quit the track, go back to main menu, to the garage, select your car, go back to time attack, sleect the same track, etc.... when you should just be able to change car in the fly! From the track! (you can when you race online)... how hard would it be to do that? How PD can not have noticed it? Would it ruin your game if they did it? Would it not be GT5 anymore?
I really don't see why the game I want can't be GT... as if GT, unlike any other series, should not evolve and live with its time. As if GT should keep all its flaws like they are what gives it its identity.
You can disagree with me, but everything I ask would make the experience better. Not that pain in the ass game that seems to punish you everytime you wanna play.
i got some moments of pure magic with GT5...pure magic... but they are plagued by way to many inconsistencies.
Being the leader should push PD to do better, not to fall asleep, thinking how GT is in a class of its own and will never be caught up. it s already not the case anymore.
Edit 1: I have a high end JMLAB/DENON 5.1 surround system with a huge boomer... most engine sounds suck in GT5. period. That line of defense is ridiculous...seriously man... come on...
Edit 2: asfor the "gt community" at its best... I just notice that you get called by names as soon as you criticize GT5. This has nothing to do with Forza ...why bring the forza community (that I don't even belong to as I don't have a 360)?
Man, we are talking about a video game here...not some kind of elitist car religion.
And IF you see GT as some kind of masterpiece celebrating cars, then will you agree that many glorious cars are missing... when many crap cars got in.
I agree that, when it comes to driving (not racing) GT5 is unrivaled. You seem to think that it's enough... I don't.
Especially when many of the problems are not even technical ones (except framerate/tearing) but just conception ones. Or lazyness. Or condescendance.
yes, you can go and see any car in the photo mode: does it mean you should not be able to do it from your garage? Wouldn't it make more sense and be much faster? Especially when the loading times are so long. You seriuously think this capability is well implemented and user friendly ?
You talk about online racing leagues, but you can't deny this should be made easier by the game...Try autolog and you will see what a very well integrated online mode can add to the experience. EA did it, why not PD?
And what about the lack of leaderboards? You think having them would betray GT's philosophy?
Another example of PD lack of focus : you do some time attack on a track and you want want to change your car, because, as a fan of cars, you want to compare their performances (that s something that car fans do in my world)...you have to quit the track, go back to main menu, to the garage, select your car, go back to time attack, sleect the same track, etc.... when you should just be able to change car in the fly! From the track! (you can when you race online)... how hard would it be to do that? How PD can not have noticed it? Would it ruin your game if they did it? Would it not be GT5 anymore?
I really don't see why the game I want can't be GT... as if GT, unlike any other series, should not evolve and live with its time. As if GT should keep all its flaws like they are what gives it its identity.
You can disagree with me, but everything I ask would make the experience better. Not that pain in the ass game that seems to punish you everytime you wanna play.
i got some moments of pure magic with GT5...pure magic... but they are plagued by way to many inconsistencies.
Being the leader should push PD to do better, not to fall asleep, thinking how GT is in a class of its own and will never be caught up. it s already not the case anymore.
Edit 1: I have a high end JMLAB/DENON 5.1 surround system with a huge boomer... most engine sounds suck in GT5. period. That line of defense is ridiculous...seriously man... come on...
Edit 2: asfor the "gt community" at its best... I just notice that you get called by names as soon as you criticize GT5. This has nothing to do with Forza ...why bring the forza community (that I don't even belong to as I don't have a 360)?
test_account
XP-39C²
Fair enough. If you dont like it, it is a matter of taste, so i cant argue against that. But i wonder how you would have made it instead.Solal said:
What do you mean with game mechanics? I would concider the addition of making your own tracks, rally racing, go kart racing, F1 racing, dynamic weather, dynamic day/night racing, cockpit view etc. to be some additions that the game has.Solal said:
But here you say what you dont like about the game, i'm more interested in knowing what you would change or add.
I'm not really sure what you mean with the last things? You can look very nicely at the car in photomode. Havnt you seen all the GT5 pictures that people have taken? =) Car tuning does not require any super fancy graphical interface in my opinion.
What do you compare this to?Solal said:
I have never tried autolog, so i cant comment on that. GT5 do have leaderboards in seasonal events. There are also leader boards in time trial if i'm not mistaken (can someone please confirm or deny this? I'm not at home right now, so i cant check it myself).Solal said:
There are indeed some frame drop and screen tearing, but from my experience with the game i have not seen anything massive. I dont have a good enough surround system to judge the sound that much, but on my TV speakers i think that the sound sounds good at least.
H_Prestige
Banned
Just thought I'd inject a bit of reality into your fantasy of who is "leading" who. But maybe you would rather keep dreaming.Solal said:
man I am about to drag out the wheel and play GT just like I do every time I get off early. It really is fun to drive the cars and see how they react differently and on different roads. But (and please don't bite my head off, I love the game) I pretty much agree with everything that Solal said. Everything except the actual driving seems wack as fuck. The game just seems stuck in a past generation. Nothing about the rest of the game seems to promote the awesome feeling you get when you actually drive in it. In the grand scheme of things it's not going to make the game horrible but I think the series deserves better.
test-account-> Well... I am not a game producer/maker... I don't know how it should have been.... just like I can tell I hate a movie without pretending I can do a better one. Moreover, it s hard and a lot of work to make a good intro... ;-)
My answer to Commedieu should answer your questions: I feel like GT is turning around without trying anything to renew the experience.
When I talk about the game mechanics, i speak of the career mode :it s the same grinding system (forcing you to play 10 times the same race) as GT1... same licences... but now plagued by a stupid used car turn over that prevents you from buying the car you want unless you are lucky.
Not speaking of the B spec mode that defies any logic...
GT5 career mode is old and boring now. Especially when it s the 5th time you do that! AND, people who bought GT1 at 20yo are now 35, they have a job, kids...they know how to drive! you have to propose them something different than what they were playing 15 years ago. Put it that way: I don't have the time, and i don"t have any pleasure racing in a Micra against stupid AI forever and ever...etc... It just does not work anymore.
No wonder GT sells less and less... don't you people see there is a problem?
My answer to Commedieu should answer your questions: I feel like GT is turning around without trying anything to renew the experience.
When I talk about the game mechanics, i speak of the career mode :it s the same grinding system (forcing you to play 10 times the same race) as GT1... same licences... but now plagued by a stupid used car turn over that prevents you from buying the car you want unless you are lucky.
Not speaking of the B spec mode that defies any logic...
GT5 career mode is old and boring now. Especially when it s the 5th time you do that! AND, people who bought GT1 at 20yo are now 35, they have a job, kids...they know how to drive! you have to propose them something different than what they were playing 15 years ago. Put it that way: I don't have the time, and i don"t have any pleasure racing in a Micra against stupid AI forever and ever...etc... It just does not work anymore.
No wonder GT sells less and less... don't you people see there is a problem?
SolidSnakex
Member
Solal said:
GT4 is the second best selling game in the series and GT5 was at 6m at the end of last year.
Solal said:
Your first post in the Spec 2 thread came off as pretty trollish, but you've either toned it down or explained yourself better. I agree with what you say now, at least most of it. The grind is completely gone though as you get loads of Cr and XP from the seasonal events. I think you can go from lvl 1 to 25 in 1 hour now.
And about sales - does it really sell less and less? One month after release it had sold 6.5 ish million copies. There are no other racing sims (or sims for that matter) that can boast of numbers like that. Even the Prologue sold better than all other racing sims.
Solidsnake-> True...i should have said that GT5 sells less than any other GT in the past. I don't think it will reach 9 millions.
http://www.polyphony.co.jp/english/list.html
http://www.polyphony.co.jp/english/list.html
test_account
XP-39C²
Fair enough, but surely you have some idea how you would do it differently?Solal said:
First i must ask you, how much have you played GT5? I dont mean to sound rude at all, the reason why i ask this is because you mention several of things that actually are in GT5. You said that there were no way to check out the car, but there is Photo Mode. You said that there were no leaderboards, but there are. And now you say that the game is plagued with that you have to be lucky to buy a used car so that you can do career races. This isnt the case either. In some fairness, it was the case with two or three cars in the begining, that pickup truck and the Formula GT car. But this was fixed later on by adding an online dealership, so now those two cars are easily available for everyoneSolal said:
It was only used for 2 races i think, so it wasnt exactly plagued.And dont you concider addition of dynamic weather changes, dynamic night/day cycle racing, go kart racing, rally racing, F1 racing etc. to be renewing stuff? What exactly do you want to change?
But about career mode, it does indeed require some grinding, but it isnt really that bad in my opinion. It also depends on how much you win of course, the more you win, the faster you gain experience and credits. How do you want the career mode to be instead?
How do you mean that B-Spec mode defines any logic? B-Spec could actually be considered as an auto-grinder. I know people who use B-Spec at night to get easy credits
-MikePriester-
Member
Genuine question.
Now people have Spec II update, are there any improvements in the framerate/screentear? I know their is from the release of the game, just wondered if it's been worked on for this update.
Thanks
Now people have Spec II update, are there any improvements in the framerate/screentear? I know their is from the release of the game, just wondered if it's been worked on for this update.
Thanks
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
Solal said:
That number came out 1 Month after the game released and you don't think it will sell past 9 million?. If i remember correctly GT5 is/was the fastest selling GT and knowing that GT is a slow burner you better be ready to eat your words months from now. By the end of it's life GT5 will be well beyond 10 million, that will solidify it as the third best selling in the series.
test_account
XP-39C²
GT5 sales is most likely a bit hindered by the lower PS3 installbase compared to the PS1 and PS2 installbases. The initial word to mouth for GT5 might have not been that good either. But GT5 has definitely sold a very respectable amount of copies, no doubt about that
EDIT: I just noticed that with the sales of GT5 Prologue and GT5, it is over 10 million, wow!
EDIT: I just noticed that with the sales of GT5 Prologue and GT5, it is over 10 million, wow!
I havnt tested that much myself, but i've read earlier in the GT5 Spec II thread that the screen tearing on the London track has been reduced. I did notice some screen tearing myself on the Rome track earlier, so it is not completely gone. But it wasnt really that much in my opinon (i dont remember how it was before in comparison).-MikePriester- said:
-MikePriester- said:
I tried every track that usually has tearing and noticed an improvement... nothing spectacular (there is still tearing...unfortunatly) but , to my eyes, it seemed better. Sometimes at a point where i could barely notice it (of course it can be only because there was no opponent onscreen at this particular time or what not...)
As I am very sensitive to it, that's the main thing I wanted to see corrected.
-MikePriester-
Member
Solal said:
That's great news.
Just the sort of info I was really after.
Thanks
ZoddGutts said:
Doubt any work has been done on the audio, could be with the AI though, anyone?
SolidSnakex
Member
Solal said:
Scroll down to the bottom of the page.
AgentChris
Member
Then its never.H_Prestige said: