Support NeoGAF

[Windom Earle]

I can understand that some people like the look of Forza better. In Gran Turimso the colours are more subdued, just look at the Spa video, giving it a more realistic look, but can look boring/lifeless to others. Forza on the other hand has more popping colours, much more colourful, thus livelier to others and less boring.

Forza looks better if you are into comics, GT looks better if you are into real cars.

 

[Snubbers]

Digital Foundry Framerate analysis Forza 4 vs GT5:
http://www.eurogamer.net/videos/forza-4-vs-gran-turismo-5

And Forza 4 racing framerate analysis:
http://www.eurogamer.net/videos/forza-4-racing-performance-analysis

No article has been posted yet, though, I don't think.

I was sure FM4 would have had to made some FPS compromises to up the car count/apparent track scenery detail, but clearly it hasn't..

You can clearly see the compromises both games make, and their different priorities..

 

[KKRT00]

How else he's going to be able to make up shit about FM4 if he actually plays the game.

Anyway, that framerate comparison is pretty telling of how bad the frame drop in GT5. There are so many instances where the frame drop below 40! I know there was a lot of tearing and slow down in GT5 but I never realize how bad those frames drop are until I saw that video. It's no wonder all the races are rolling start in GT5....they need to keep those cars apart or you would never get off the starting line.

They both still good games but this thread is always entertaining and help keep most of the trolls out of both official threads.

We certainly watched different analysis. Framerate rarely drops below 50 [only three times in 6 minute footage!] and it drops to 50 for 5-6 seconds per 1:20 footage and for the rest of time its 60fps. Yeah, framerate is so horrible in GT 5...

 

[chubigans]

I was sure FM4 would have had to made some FPS compromises to up the car count/apparent track scenery detail, but clearly it hasn't..

Well if some are correct, they ditch AA in the higher car counts. But we'll have to wait for the Digital Foundry article to know for sure.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Comparison video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kslCZaCNQ1k

You can see just on the lighting that GT5 is way beyond Forza 4. The trackside detail has always been Forza's strong point too. It shows.

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

You can see just on the lighting that GT5 is way beyond Forza 4. The trackside detail has always been Forza's strong point too. It shows.

Yep, and if you look in the comment section the owner of the video says

watch?v=EUXzHZBqjLI for real onboard sound of stock MX-5 NC.
Our opinion on this sound?
GT5 - a bit too low on quality, too much distortion. But closer to real
FM4 - doesn't sound stock, more like aftermarket exhaust. Overall, too overdone, not real, but probably more exciting.

Which is exactly what i have been arguing back at gtplanet (banned for two days), oh well.

 

[phosphor112]

Maybe you should play FM4, you could probably form an opinion then.

No one is talking to you, stfu.

 

[Wazzim]

Forza looks better if you are into comics, GT looks better if you are into real cars.

You know that's bullshit or else: Seek help.

Real life is much more colorful and far less clinic than GT5's presentation, GT5 looks more like how racing looks like in videos while T10 wants Forza to look like how you see the world in person.
I saw tons of Ferrari's, Lambo's and other cars at conventions and Autovista is an almost perfect recreation of the real life reflections.

Both games look great IMO but it seems like you guys underestimate how colorful real life can look.

 

[JWong]

You know that's bullshit or else: Seek help.

Real life is much more colorful and far less clinic than GT5's presentation, GT5 looks more like how racing looks like in videos while T10 wants Forza to look like how you see the world in person.
I saw tons of Ferrari's, Lambo's and other cars at conventions and Autovista is an almost perfect recreation of the real life reflections.

Haha no. Even GT5 still is tad vibrant than real life.

Maybe go outside and look at some cars in different weather conditions.

Sorry, I just had to.

Edit: I'll just quote this. If it wasn't for the low quality capture in this gifs video, GT5 would look a lot more colourful.

This gif is real life.

 

[jet1911]

You can see just on the lighting that GT5 is way beyond Forza 4. The trackside detail has always been Forza's strong point too. It shows.

Why is the track so "green" in GT5?

No one is talking to you, stfu.

 

[phosphor112]

Yep, and if you look in the comment section the owner of the video says

Which is exactly what i have been arguing back at gtplanet (banned for two days), oh well.

But GT has terrible sound!!! ;o

 

[Yoritomo]

No one is talking to you, stfu.

What's keeping you from playing a game you're obviously very interested in?

 

[Metalmurphy]

Do we know if that comparison is post Spec 2.0 or not?

Why is the track so "green" in GT5?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlRcedj5IlQ&hd=1

 

[Angst]

Haha no. Even GT5 still is tad vibrant than real life.

Maybe go outside and look at some cars in different weather conditions.


Edit: I'll just quote this. If it wasn't for the low quality capture in this gifs video, GT5 would look a lot more colourful.

This gif is real life.

If by "real life" you mean "GT5", then yes.

 

[phosphor112]

What's keeping you from playing a game you're obviously very interested in?

I don't have a functioning 360. I haven't had one since FM2. As I said, I've played the demo. I commented on the frame rate of the rear view mirror, which is something that was apparent in the demo. I haven't commented on online, or the track selection or anything else. Stop being such a fucking dick and back the fuck up.

 

[jet1911]

Do we know if that comparison is post Spec 2.0 or not?




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlRcedj5IlQ&hd=1

Thanks!

 

[Wazzim]

Haha no. Even GT5 still is tad vibrant than real life.

Maybe go outside and look at some cars in different weather conditions.

Well lol, I did. Real life forests and tracks can look wonderful with the sun shining.

Edit: I'll just quote this. If it wasn't for the low quality capture in this gifs video, GT5 would look a lot more colourful.

This gif is real life.

No it's not, it just looks like on board cams look but maybe that's because it's a capture like you said. I will not conclude anything about the Spa track until I play it myself.

 

[eso76]

Well if some are correct, they ditch AA in the higher car counts. But we'll have to wait for the Digital Foundry article to know for sure.

it's the other way round...
You get a bump in AA when there's only one car on the track

fm4 laguna seca looks better than gt5 laguna seca overall.
No, lighting is not 'way better' in GT5 in that vid.
Fm4 uses too much specular highlight though, even considering the completely different lighting conditions. And while tarmac is a lot more detailed in fm, the duller, less intricate textures used in gt5 end up looking more realistic.

 

[Metalmurphy]

That spa video is with overcast setting, close to raining. Non weather version is more colorful...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46F_MbC_imA&hd=1

 

[Wazzim]

That spa video is with overcast setting, close to raining. Non weather version is more colorful...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46F_MbC_imA&hd=1

Wow the colors in that video look really vibrant!

it's the other way round...
You get a bump in AA when there's only one car on the track

Yup, from Beyond3D: Forza Motorsport 4 = 1280x720 (4xAA in time trial, 2xAA otherwise, 4x in car viewing etc.)

 

[SunhiLegend]

Regardless of the track detail or how vibrant the colours are, GT5 is the closest you'll get to photo realism on current consoles, which is what a racing sim should strive for.

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

Haha no. Even GT5 still is tad vibrant than real life.

Maybe go outside and look at some cars in different weather conditions.


Edit: I'll just quote this. If it wasn't for the low quality capture in this gifs video, GT5 would look a lot more colourful.

This gif is real life.

A thousand lol's can't describe how hard i laughed.

 

[SmokyDave]

GT5 has high points that surpass pretty much anything else on any platform. It's ridiculous how realistic it can look at first glance.

 

[Raist]

Before anyone starts talking shit about the car popping up in the rear view mirror, that is the ghost car that appears after he passes the finish line.

Well there's trees disappearing in the rear view mirror as well.

Spoiler

Which is the only detail that made me figure out for sure that this gif wasn't from real life footage

 

[Slayer-33]

But GT has terrible sound!!! ;o

One video doesn't make GT 5's sound dept great. It's mediocre at best LOL, who are people trying to fool here?

 

[test_account]

Anyone know what Digital Foundry use to messure frames per seconds with?

 

[Pepto]

Well there's trees disappearing in the rear view mirror as well.

Spoiler

Which is the only detail that made me figure out for sure that this gif wasn't from real life footage

Did you also think this was real life footage:

 

[The Elite]

Played the Forza 4 demo. The game may "only" be 720p, it doesn´t look as sharp as GT5. But my god, i think it looks so much better than GT5, because compared to to Forza GT looks simply dead. Yeah the cars look amazing, but it still looks lifeless to me.

I love both but I agree, GT has always had a sterile feel.

 

[Slayer-33]

Comparison video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kslCZaCNQ1k

watch?v=4oDd0YBbHbI

wait theres fucking music on that video nm lol.

 

[JWong]

Did you also think this was real life footage:

Wolverine isn't real????

My dreams are shattered, just like when I found out Slash isn't real. 8(

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Did you also think this was real life footage:

http://chud.com/articles/content_images/17/WolverineIMG][/QUOTE]

I also payed close attention to the gif to figure it out. The Mirror gave it away for me too. It's a small gif, and PD did a great job with the models and lighting. You can't blame anyone for mistaking it for real.

Edit: Heck the replays with all the different angles on youtube seem real usually. Even for GTHD.

 

[phosphor112]

One video doesn't make GT 5's sound dept great. It's mediocre at best LOL, who are people trying to fool here?

The standard cars sound like shit, but the premium cars sound very accurate. They do have an issue with stereo setups, which I don't understand. You can never hear the exhaust in stereo sound mode unless you look behind you.

Anyway, if they were to fix that, they'd have the best sound hands down.

But yeah, GT5 does have better sound.

 

[Slayer-33]

The standard cars sound like shit, but the premium cars sound very accurate. They do have an issue with stereo setups, which I don't understand. You can never hear the exhaust in stereo sound mode unless you look behind you.

Anyway, if they were to fix that, they'd have the best sound hands down.

But yeah, GT5 does have better sound.

You made me laugh, congratulations.

Incredible statement bro.

 

[watership]

But yeah, GT5 does have better sound.

This thread delivers again.

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

watch?v=4oDd0YBbHbI

wait theres fucking music on that video nm lol.

Does that sound anywhere close to stock? please enlighten me.

 

[Slayer-33]

Does that anywhere close to stock? please enlighten me.

And who says the FM 4 MX-5 is stock? Please enlighten me.

It has an AM exhaust.

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

Regardless of the track detail or how vibrant the colours are, GT5 is the closest you'll get to photo realism on current consoles, which is what a racing sim should strive for.

I...

What...

I mean...

How?

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

And who says the FM 4 MX-5 is stock? Please enlighten me.

It has an AM exhaust.

MotoGameTV compared both cars STOCK not TUNED, i am not arguing that GT sounds better but in this particular case GT sound's closer to stock than FM4's stock mx-5.

 

[offshore]

But yeah, GT5 does have better sound.

/facepalm

 

[J-Rzez]

I love both but I agree, GT has always had a sterile feel.

While Forza still has a cartoony look overall, which is more disconnecting than a sterile look. GT5 is still closer to mimicking real life in the end. While GT5 has it's major visual flaws at times in it's consistency, it's the first racer I've played that had that "wtf, is this real life" moments.

Sound is the same situation. GT is far too sterile and Forza is too hollywood. There needs to be a mid-road.

 

[KKRT00]

Anyone know what Digital Foundry use to messure frames per seconds with?

Their software. They record footage, than use their software to count frames and tearing and then they overlay it onto video.

 

[Slayer-33]

MotoGameTV compared both cars STOCK not TUNED, i am not arguing that GT sounds better but in this particular case GT sound's closer to stock than FM4's stock mx-5.

What I suspected is correct, whoever recorded that video left the sound settings to focus on the car so it'll definitely be louder in FM 4 than what it would sound like inside.

I swapped between focus sound on "car" and "tires" the tires setting sounds much more realistic inside. I admit the exhaust has more of a crackle and I didn't mod the exaust in the coupe I just bought in F4.

 

[phosphor112]

You made me laugh, congratulations.
Incredible statement bro.

This thread delivers again.

I'm sorry you two feel exaggerated and beefed up sounds are good. It's like Shift 2, the game completely exaggerates every single sound (of course, FM doesn't do it to THAT extent) but it's clear they beef up the sounds. GT doesn't do that.

 

[patsu]

I'd still say that is not art direction in the way I interpret the term. There would be no need for artists at PD to sketch out what they want the majority of cars to look like for instance. Some sketching is probably done for the fantasy tracks, but those are still grounded in reality. And obviously they have some unique cars and bodykits made specially for the game, but that is not art direction, that is pure automotive design - creating objects that are supposed to sit comfortably in a real-world driving scenario.

They may say they're going after hyper-photorealism, but ultimately it is real photographs that are their reference material.

Yes they do have to lay them out (optimization) even if the data comes from CAD tools. ^_^
On top of that they have to make decisions about lighting parameters. The work appears technical because computer is the tool, but there are art decisions involved.

Even if it's a real track, they may pick a particular time of day, time of year (season) to show certain feels. e.g., colorful or subdued, etc.

 

[Slayer-33]

I'm sorry you two feel exaggerated and beefed up sounds are good. It's like Shift 2, the game completely exaggerates every single sound (of course, FM doesn't do it to THAT extent) but it's clear they beef up the sounds. GT doesn't do that.

The exhaust sounds modded but they need to re-up a video with sounds focused on tires, sounds closer to GT 5 when I did that. After checking some YT vid's the MX-5 sounds closer to the real one in GT 5 since it's so subdued.

For most of the sound comparison videos one needs to set parameters as close as possible though to gauge shit better imo.

 

[zoukka]

I'm sorry you two feel exaggerated and beefed up sounds are good. It's like Shift 2, the game completely exaggerates every single sound (of course, FM doesn't do it to THAT extent) but it's clear they beef up the sounds. GT doesn't do that.

We are in a living room. Not inside a car. The acoustics have to beefed to get anywhere close to the feeling of actually driving something beyond a lawnmower. Also all the GT5 sounds have been adjusted. It's not like they have raw audio files that they just compressed and slapped to the disc.

 

[test_account]

Their software. They record footage, than use their software to count frames and tearing and then they overlay it onto video.

Ok, thanks for the info I've seen some DF videos and i've always wondered what software they used to messure the fps.

 

[patsu]

You should be able to use your home theater to adjust the sound in your living room to your liking. Everyone has different setup and different ears. The game should try to mimic the "real" or raw sound.

 

[zoukka]

You should be able to use your home theater to adjust the sound in your living room to your liking. Everyone has different setup and different ears. The game should try to mimic the "real" or raw sound.

Not all people have good quality home theater sound. The responsibility is on the devs side.

 

[bud]

the problem with gt5's sound is that while it sounds good in the cockpit view, it sounds absolutely rubbish in the replays; it's like a bunch of vacuum cleaners racing around the track.