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[chespace]

Do you also play PC sims like rFactor, Richard Burns Rally, or iRacing?

Haven't delved into those games yet. Mostly due to the fact that I don't have a wheel setup at home and PC racing games aren't exactly compelling with a keyboard. I did play GTR2 and GPL at work a while back when we had a PC station set up with those games.

 

[Shurs]

Everything he said in this quote was right. But I assume that a PS3 only owner who didn't played the demo can't confirm that.

Well I'm glad that he now knows about his own game. Maybe the Polyphony Digital employees weren't the only ones who should have been taking careful notes on Forza 3.

 

[theignoramus]

Well I'm glad that he now knows about his own game. Maybe the Polyphony Digital employees weren't the only ones who should have been taking careful notes on Forza 3.

:lol

 

[TheFatOne]

It was a slow burner that sold consistently, first months sales aren't always indicative of how successful the product will be.

I'm going to call bullshit on this. It's the same thing with GT5P and Uncharted. All those games were bundled to death. They aren't the hits people seem to think they are.

 

[Dra-Q]

I'm going to call bullshit on this. Its the same thing with GT5P and Uncharted. All those games were bundled to death. They aren't the hits people seem to think they are.

Pretty much this, like Viva Pinata.

 

[seattle6418]

Dan's press tour quotes aside, I don't see how it changes what I wrote. The two games aren't being released anywhere near each other. There's really no excuse not to play both if you are a racing fan.

Money.

Lot's of single console owners.

I live in Brazil and i can't afford a 360 just to play Forza. If i still lived on the states, i would definately buy Forza, because after all, it's trying to do the same thing that GT does, so if i love one, i will at least enjoy the other.

I think a lot of people can't afford both consoles and both games, that's why so many pick one and start a campaign to dismiss the other game to feel better about their choice.

I don't have anything against Forza for example. I've played occasional times and I would love to have it on my console. But since my favorite series is GT, i will end up missing Forza 3 (unless one of friends buys it).

 

[KHarvey16]

I'm going to call bullshit on this. It's the same thing with GT5P and Uncharted. All those games were bundled to death. They aren't the hits people seem to think they are.

Are you arguing that the bundling of Forza is enough to discredit 4 million copies sold and its title as a hit on the 360?

 

[LordPhoque]

Are you arguing that the bundling of Forza is enough to discredit 4 million copies sold and its title as a hit on the 360?

It's Viva Pinata now. :lol

 

[Interfectum]

Forza doesn't sell in Europe or Japan.

Hard to believe it sold 4m in NA when it disappeared from the NPDs after a month.

 

[KHarvey16]

Forza doesn't sell in Europe or Japan.

Hard to believe it sold 4m in NA when it disappeared from the NPDs after a month.

Ah yes, it's all a lie.

 

[TheFatOne]

Are you arguing that the bundling of Forza is enough to discredit 4 million copies sold and its title as a hit on the 360?

It isn't a hit on the 360 period.

 

[LordPhoque]

It isn't a hit on the 360 period.

4 millions is not a hit at all. Gears of war bomba confirmed.

 

[KHarvey16]

It isn't a hit on the 360 period.

What constitutes a hit in your eyes? How many Forza sales were due to bundles?

 

[Interfectum]

Ah yes, it's all a lie.

Got the numbers to back it up?

Even an MS press release will do.

We have one from Sony for GT5P.

 

[chespace]

Forza doesn't sell in Europe or Japan.

Hard to believe it sold 4m in NA when it disappeared from the NPDs after a month.

Ahem, UK.

And NPDs do not cover all retail, as you know.

 

[Shurs]

Are you arguing that the bundling of Forza is enough to discredit 4 million copies sold and its title as a hit on the 360?

It shouldn't be. Regardless of if was bought individually or bundled, it got into the hands of 4 million 360 owners. I'm sure the numbers for Gran Turismo 3 (14 million) and Gran Turismo 4 (10 million) also include bundles.

Edit: Oh, wait. I think they're getting the 4 million number from Chartz, and we all know about their credibility.

 

[Cat in the Hat]

Where I'm from it goes, if you talk shit you best back it up. Che is waffling now. He's getting soft on us.

 

[Interfectum]

Ahem, UK.

And NPDs do not cover all retail, as you know.

So far in this thread we've discredited Gamersyde screenshots, Top Gear writers, Jeremy Clarkson and now NPD numbers.

It's all a big conspiracy

Anyway, care to post the regional breakdowns.

You must be privy to the numbers.

 

[lowrider007]

I'm going to call bullshit on this. It's the same thing with GT5P and Uncharted. All those games were bundled to death. They aren't the hits people seem to think they are.

I disagree, not much else I can say really, like I said I just think it was (and still is) a slow burner, I myself only picked up Forza 2 a few weeks ago, and a friend of mine a few days ago, it's the only racing 'sim' available on the 360 atm so it'll always sell until it's superseded.

This thread really is like a roller-coaster.

 

[AFreak]

It was a slow burner that sold consistently, first months sales aren't always indicative of how successful the product will be.

Did those bundles count?

 

[Dra-Q]

So far in this thread we've discredited Gamersyde screenshots, Top Gear writers, Jeremy Clarkson and now NPD numbers.

Next: The NeoGAF.

 

[commedieu]

Turn10 shouldn't have done the whole "definitive" nonsense. It wouldn't have sparked any debate at all. I've said it before but the gaming community always gave Forza a pass. Its a great solid game. If Turn10 was more like che's new humble approach of plausible denial now with the "Buh buh they are both good games and thats what matters gang! Whats LOD?" we wouldn't be here.

The problem is Turn10 is forcing an artificial association/competition with Gran Turismo. Taking pot shots, boasting about how its the best out there. None of that is needed. Especially when the actual game looks severely underwhelming compared to the fake photomode(with Turn10's comments considered). It can't even hold up to prologue with the worst track in the game, eiger. Combine that with bribing a poll, Turn10 employees trolling gaf(RandomXTX) & the "10x more polygon***" nonsense, its just a gigantic "W T F?"

The pathetic thing is the game can't even speak with its gameplay, just bullshots with higher polygon models that don't reflect gameplay at all, & rhetoric from the community manager/developers. Which was evident from the day Che went mum on direct feed questions. There is literally no major difference from F2 to F3 when it comes to forza's main appeal outside of cosmetics that should have been done in F2, the lighting.

F2 was graphically dated when it released, now people are excited because the game has modern lighting? Please. Its always been the damage and the livery editor. The online is great, but most games have online communities that allow you to race head to head and record leaderboards as well as swaping vehicles and they continue to evolve. It wasn't ever 'ease of driving' Not sure where that argument came from that leads people to think that sims need to be more approachable by 6 year old children, so now thats a selling point? HUH?

Its literally the same exact thing Turn10 did with Forza2, and the actual in game turned out to not reflect the bullshots. Which isn't a problem for a game. Look at shift/racepro etc. Games all have their selling points, but the forza series brings it upon itself to have the comparisons made.

Your customers shouldn't have to seek explanations why the game has low detailed cars while driving, after all the nonsense/photomode "TURN10 doesn't do bullshots" blah blah blah.

1 model for the menu/replay. 1 model for starting the race, and a different one while racing. I mean come on?

Sim fans always knew they had 2 great games to play. This isn't news to anyone. However Turn10's attitude is seriously displaced considering the results of their product.

The Forza series is great on its own, the worst thing about it is the public presence of the developers. It has awesome features that everyone wishes GT had. No one can deny that. The game sells itself, it really does for those interested.

 

[AFreak]

Where I'm from it goes, if you talk shit you best back it up. Che is waffling now. He's getting soft on us.

 

[ShapeGSX]

I'm going to call bullshit on this. It's the same thing with GT5P and Uncharted. All those games were bundled to death. They aren't the hits people seem to think they are.

Forza 2 was only ever bundled with the $400 to $450 Elite in the US. It was the 2007 Elite holiday bundle along with Marvel Ultimate Alliance.

I've never really thought of the Elite as a great seller. Are you saying that it is?

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Oh god, as if things weren't bad enough people had to go invoke sales-age. :lol

Someone call the sales regulars and break out the charts!

 

[Shurs]

Forza 2 was only ever bundled with the $400 to $450 Elite in the US. It was the 2007 Elite holiday bundle along with Marvel Ultimate Alliance.

I've never really thought of the Elite as a great seller. Are you saying that it is?

We haven't seen any legitimate links to substantiate the claim of 4 million copies of Forza 2 in the wild.

 

[chespace]

Oh god, as if things weren't bad enough people had to go invoke sales-age. :lol

Someone call the sales regulars and break out the charts!

Don't you know sales and the quality of game design have a direct correlation? :lol

 

[Interfectum]

Don't you know sales and the quality of game design have a direct correlation? :lol

So about those numbers...

 

[lowrider007]

So about those numbers...

:lol , I was waiting for that.

 

[CrushDance]

Greenawalt pined, "I play a lot of racing games, including PC racing games and I have not seen anything that is even within years of what we’re delivering here."

How hard is it to be humble? Some of you are talking about how this is just PR talk, and while it is to an extent, few other developers directly call out their competition in such a manner at nearly every opportunity. Rarely do developers talk so much about others in this way. They either dodge and talk about how good their game is or say they've spent some time with other titles but quickly move on. Even David jaffe, the king of smack talk, praises games from other developers and even on the competing platform. He doesn't even hide the fact that he has a 360, and it would be stupid to do so.

This isn't about GT even anymore(I dunno why this thread has devolved into such a mess) but more about the impression T10 are giving and how it's hurting Forza. Forza is not the best sim out there like they're claiming, it's a damn good one and has probably put some pressure on Polyphony and others. But the game can speak for itself without all the added hyperbole and attempts at defacing their competitors.

Such behaviour has never been a good thing and has happened way to many times this gen from all around. Let the game speak for itself T10, all you're doing is inviting comparisons and arguments from some loose canons that will do more harm then good by calling out all other sims. Because at the end of the day, Forza does have its weak points and making such claims is an invitation for them to be scrutinized to hell and back.

We wouldn't be here if it wasn't for T10's talk. That is the problem. Sure we'd probably have a comparison thread and so forth, but not at this level.

 

[antiquegamer]

Turn10 shouldn't have done the whole "definitive" nonsense. It wouldn't have sparked any debate at all. I've said it before but the gaming community always gave Forza a pass. Its a great solid game. If Turn10 was more like che's new humble approach of plausible denial now with the "Buh buh they are both good games and thats what matters gang! Whats LOD?" we wouldn't be here.

The problem is Turn10 is forcing an artificial association/competition with Gran Turismo. Taking pot shots, boasting about how its the best out there. None of that is needed. Especially when the actual game looks severely underwhelming compared to the fake photomode(with Turn10's comments considered). It can't even hold up to prologue with the worst track in the game, eiger. Combine that with bribing a poll, Turn10 employees trolling gaf(RandomXTX) & the "10x more polygon***" nonsense, its just a gigantic "W T F?"

The pathetic thing is the game can't even speak with its gameplay, just bullshots with higher polygon models that don't reflect gameplay at all, & rhetoric from the community manager/developers. Which was evident from the day Che went mum on direct feed questions. There is literally no major difference from F2 to F3 when it comes to forza's main appeal outside of cosmetics that should have been done in F2, the lighting.

F2 was graphically dated when it released, now people are excited because the game has modern lighting? Please. Its always been the damage and the livery editor. The online is great, but most games have online communities that allow you to race head to head and record leaderboards as well as swaping vehicles and they continue to evolve. It wasn't ever 'ease of driving' Not sure where that argument came from that leads people to think that sims need to be more approachable by 6 year old children, so now thats a selling point? HUH?

Its literally the same exact thing Turn10 did with Forza2, and the actual in game turned out to not reflect the bullshots. Which isn't a problem for a game. Look at shift/racepro etc. Games all have their selling points, but the forza series brings it upon itself to have the comparisons made.

Your customers shouldn't have to seek explanations why the game has low detailed cars while driving, after all the nonsense/photomode "TURN10 doesn't do bullshots" blah blah blah.

1 model for the menu/replay. 1 model for starting the race, and a different one while racing. I mean come on?

Sim fans always knew they had 2 great games to play. This isn't news to anyone. However Turn10's attitude is seriously displaced considering the results of their product.

The Forza series is great on its own, the worst thing about it is the public presence of the developers. It has awesome features that everyone wishes GT had. No one can deny that. The game sells itself, it really does for those interested.

You know, Polyphony does exact same thing with GT. I don't see people asking for Polyphony to explain the huge parity between E3 trailer (which many console warriors were proclaming that it's definitely in-game) and the demo at Gamecon. Or released prologue with completely broken multi-player mode. (it's still pretty much crap to play on-line GT5P even now). Didn't I also read somewhere that according to Polyphony if it's not 60fps then its not a game, but yet there was screen tear and slowdown in many sections of GT5P. Also most of the time in GT5P you are pretty much driving alone with may be one or two car in front of you. Most of the races are rolling start type. And how about we can't do damage because they don't let us, but now damage is being add into GT5 so should some of you demand apology for that?

Both games are great and I enjoy them both. Compare the games for the features and game play instead of all these non-senses.

 

[LordPhoque]

...

Pretty good post except you're talking like FM3 was ugly or something like that. Of course it doesn't live up to the bullshots, like 99% of the games out there. But honestly the demo is very close to what we've seen in screenshots.

 

[TheFatOne]

What constitutes a hit in your eyes? How many Forza sales were due to bundles?

Hard to say how many Forza 2 sales were due to bundles. I can't find any numbers from Europe so its going to be very difficult for anyone to give an accurate estimate. The first month Forza sold 220k?(I think I couldn't find the link)

Next month
July Sub 112k
Aug 2007 sub 130k
Sep 2007 Sub 140k sales
Oct Sub 120k sales
Nov Sub380k
Dec Sub700k

Were are all the copies of Forza 2? Because I don't see how this game is selling 2 million copies.

Don't you know sales and the quality of game design have a direct correlation? :lol

It doesn't unless you want to be the definitive racer this gen.

 

[chespace]

So about those numbers...

Not at liberty to disclose.

Just don't worry about it.

 

[D'ultimate]

You know, Polyphony does exact same thing with GT. I don't see people asking for Polyphony to explain what they means when they said the game is fix. Or released prologue with completely broken multi-player mode. (it's still pretty much crap to play on-line GT5P). Didn't I read somewhere that if it's not 60fps then its not a game, there was screen tear and slowdown in many sections of GT5P. Also most of the time in GT5P you are pretty much driving alone with may be one or two car in front of you. Most of the race are rolling start type. And how about we can't do damage because they don't let us, but now damage is being add into GT5 so should some of you demand apology for that.

I believe they said that if they cant do damage right then they're not gonna do it period. The damage is not even full damage for all cars. Its different scratches or mechanical depending on the car type. Something like that.

I realize that it seems I'm bashing GT but I do also have a PS3 with Prologue and do intend to get GT5 eventually. I'm just in the camp that thinks that fans of GT are being unfairly harsh to the Forza series.

 

[LordPhoque]

[/B]

Hard to say how many Forza 2 sales were due to bundles. I can't find any numbers from Europe so its going to be very difficult for anyone to give an accurate estimate. The first month Forza sold 220k?(I think I couldn't find the link)

Next month
July Sub 112k
Aug 2007 sub 130k
Sep 2007 Sub 140k sales
Oct Sub 120k sales
Nov Sub380k
Dec Sub700k

Were are all the copies of Forza 2? Because I don't see how this game is selling 2 million copies.

USA =/= the world.

We haven't seen any legitimate links to substantiate the claim of 4 million copies of Forza 2 in the wild.

There's one, but it's banned.

 

[Senua]

us brits love forza!

 

[lowrider007]

us brits love forza!

 

[D'ultimate]

I honestly doubt it sold two million much less 4. That doesn't negate the fact that its a great series.

 

[Senua]

oh shit i like both franchises!

 

[AndyD]

The damage is not even full damage for all. I believe they said that if they cant do damage right then they're not gonna do it. Now it different damage depending on the car type. :lol

Visually it varies based on what manufacturers allow. But performance wise its supposedly all the same according to IGN.

Thats's the way both games seem to do it.

 

[Cat in the Hat]

oh shit i like both franchises!

YOU MUST CHOOSE

Spoiler

good for you

 

[Cheeto]

oh shit i like both franchises!

like both franchises, thats unpossible

 

[TheFatOne]

USA =/= the world.



There's one, but it's banned.

NA is the biggest market. Lets say that Forza was number 11 on the charts for the rest of the year. That is about 1.3 million copies sold. For arguments sake Europe=NA that is 2.6 million plus other countries that is 3 million copies sold. That is the best case, and the only way Forza 2 could have sold that many copies.

 

[lowrider007]

I honestly doubt it sold two million much less 4. That doesn't negate the fact that its a great series.

I can't believe people are really doubting this, think about how many 360's have been sold WW since the games release, Forza 2 is the only racing sim available on that console and a well reviewed one at that, so if you like that type of game then you only really have one choice, why would new 360 owners ignore it ?

 

[D'ultimate]

Visually it varies based on what manufacturers allow.

I believe there's some misleading with this statement by PD.

 

[KHarvey16]

NA is the biggest market. Lets say that Forza was number 11 on the charts foe the rest of the year. That is about 1.3 million copies sold. For arguments sake Europe=NA that is 2.6 million plus other countries that is 3 million copies sold. That is the best case, and the only way Forza 2 could have sold that many copies.

Don't forget it was re-released with DLC as a platinum hits version about this time last year as well.

 

[Shurs]

USA =/= the world.

No, but it's the largest market.

There's one, but it's banned.

For a reason, maybe?

 

[Cat in the Hat]

NA is the biggest market. Lets say that Forza was number 11 on the charts foe the rest of the year. That is about 1.3 million copies sold. For arguments sake Europe=NA that is 2.6 million plus other countries that is 3 million copies sold. That is the best case, and the only way Forza 2 could have sold that many copies.

You have no fucking clue what you're talking about. And your avatar makes you look like a twat

 

[commedieu]

You know, Polyphony does exact same thing with GT. I don't see people asking for Polyphony to explain the huge parity between E3 trailer (which many console warriors were proclaming that it's definitely in-game) and the demo at Gamecon. Or released prologue with completely broken multi-player mode. (it's still pretty much crap to play on-line GT5P even now). Didn't I also read somewhere that according to Polyphony if it's not 60fps then its not a game, but yet there was screen tear and slowdown in many sections of GT5P. Also most of the time in GT5P you are pretty much driving alone with may be one or two car in front of you. Most of the races are rolling start type. And how about we can't do damage because they don't let us, but now damage is being add into GT5 so should some of you demand apology for that?

Both games are great and I enjoy them both. Compare the games for the features and game play instead of all these non-senses.

People don't ask PD questions because they have eyes and can watch the game while they are playing it. IGN/PD confirmed the trailer was in engine. The gamescon demo was in game as well. Prologues multiplayer works fine for just being able to matchmake. Depends on the online connections as all games do.

"most of the time you're driving alone" is absurd & Expert races start from standing still.

Polyphony didn't make any claims that were proven to be false about GT. As Turn10 has already been. Games have performance problems, like the severe pop-in with Forza3's demo. But PD isn't saying their game is the best thing ever made and nothing can touch it. Are you failing to get that? The community saying something is different than the developers themselves claiming there are no screentears, or slowdowns..?