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[Snubbers]

There are more examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WhLBp9uXhQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFT0zlVZVsw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F4MD7D2FiY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKL-hlQa0Hc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PGrDgJ9zmU

I've just looked at the first youtube video, and do you know, and please don't take this as some cheap Vs shot, but I can do that in GT5 with ease.. In fact we had a lobby full of us doing this in Macca MP4/12C's as we where convinced cars behaved differently online to offline, so we did the continual pendulation, and also tried lots of 'tyres' to see which gave what level of control.. sufficed to say, we can pendulate all the way around Suzuka with just simple jabs of the throttle, and fixed countersteering. That's not knocking GT5, it's much 'harder' to do, but it's not remotely iRacing brutal is it..

I don't know what isolated tests are you talking about but the differences driving at the limit, recovering mistakes and in most of the handling physics that are suposed to make a sim hardcore are HUGE in FM3 versus the competition.

The tests are here,
http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=4238725#post4238725

All I'm saying is, the 'softness' in FM3 that is so discussed, is not actually that attributable to the alledged 'permanent steering assist', when someone clearly shows if you isolate that permanent aid with some simple tests, you find it's not magically helping you in any meaningful way.

The thing is, despite the physics behaviour in this pendulating/inertial state, which are as you say HUGELY different to other games, it still has a lot of detail and complexity in the physics which make it still fairly hold up well as a 'simulator' even to it's alledged peers, it models tyre width/pressure/flex and driving it in a manner where you are exploring that grip (i.e. Hotlapping), it more then stands up as pretty OK in it's own right, it is sad to ridicule it as not being a 'sim' based on that one facet..

The error I see in some people's thinking is that 'hard to drive' or 'swaps ends very easily' means it's a good sim.. those high level handling traits are the easiest thing to spot when tooling around, but physics goes way way way deeper then all that..

I'm so happy FM4 is improved, as clearly there is room for improvement, if they've managed to keep the low level grip 'feel' and interactions with curbs and all the other smaller nuances, but amped up the high level car feel with it 'tank slapping' like GT5, I'd be a very happy camper..

 

[CrudeDiatribe]

My impression of the driving realism in FM3 is:
If you've driven the car in question in real life, you bring certain expectations and preconceived notions of how the car drives and what it can and can't do, and when you drive it in FM3, it behaves just so. See race drivers hot lapping familiar tracks in familiar cars in the pre-release press— times were very close to real life. My friends who owned cars available in the game were impressed with the fidelity.

Instead, if you are willing to play it as a game, or don't know what the car can't do in real life and therefore shouldn't do in the game, you can get away with a lot— see the C&D reviewers' comments posted earlier, and the leaderboard times faster than those of the racing drivers in the same cars.

 

[G Rom]

Fanatec announced the price of their new wheels.

499€ for the CSR Elite without pedals, ouch !

 

[Ty4on]

Fanatec announced the price of their new wheels.

499€ for the CSR Elite without pedals, ouch !

Have they revealed the price of the standard CSR?

 

[fabricated backlash]

The rage over one achievement requiring Kinect is hilarious.

An achievement that is 5 Gamerscore too...

lol 995 GS... so close but yet so far.

 

[Mascot]

An achievement that is 5 Gamerscore too...

lol 995 GS... so close but yet so far.

That's me on FM3. It was bad enough tolerating those godawful drag events to complete the career grid. I'm not going against all my principles and acknowledging the existence of drifting as well for a paltry 5g.

 

[fabricated backlash]

That's me on FM3. It was bad enough tolerating those godawful drag events to complete the career grid. I'm not going against all my principles and acknowledging the existence of drifting as well for a paltry 5g.

lol. I highly doubt I'll complete F4 either way but now I have an excuse too^^ If I can't get 1000 because of Kinect I simply won't do most of the hard and time consuming stuff either lol.

 

[SPEEDxNASTY]

Waiting for game release in October...

Demo is out, yay!

Game is out, double-yay!!!

Damn, almost there.... did Turn10 say they'll announce something this wednesday?

 

[Xanadu]

The rage over one achievement requiring Kinect is hilarious.

it seems i'm the only 360 gamer who doesnt give a shit about achievements, like i dont even think about them..same with trophies

 

[fabricated backlash]

it seems i'm the only 360 gamer who doesnt give a shit about achievements, like i dont even think about them..same with trophies

WHAT? You dare enjoying games without a carrot on a stick dangling in front of your nose that promises to enhance your e-peen?????

Burn the heretic, you are holding gaming back by rewarding game design that is motivating gamers to enjoy games rather than a pointcounter.

 

[Snubbers]

Fanatec announced the price of their new wheels.

499€ for the CSR Elite without pedals, ouch !

Wow.. I'll have to stick with the PWTS / CSP's.. but I do like the look of the CSR Elite..

 

[flyinpiranha]

Have they revealed the price of the standard CSR?

It was posted a couple months back (after E3) to be rumored about $349 or so ... what that comes with or whether that is the real price is up in the air.

 

[Ty4on]

An achievement that is 5 Gamerscore too...

lol 995 GS... so close but yet so far.

If you have gotten to level 150 you should have the time to get a job and work till you get enough money for a kinect.

 

[Apex]

I've just looked at the first youtube video, and do you know, and please don't take this as some cheap Vs shot, but I can do that in GT5 with ease.. In fact we had a lobby full of us doing this in Macca MP4/12C's as we where convinced cars behaved differently online to offline, so we did the continual pendulation, and also tried lots of 'tyres' to see which gave what level of control.. sufficed to say, we can pendulate all the way around Suzuka with just simple jabs of the throttle, and fixed countersteering. That's not knocking GT5, it's much 'harder' to do, but it's not remotely iRacing brutal is it..meaningful way.

The error I see in some people's thinking is that 'hard to drive' or 'swaps ends very easily' means it's a good sim.. those high level handling traits are the easiest thing to spot when tooling around, but physics goes way way way deeper then all that..

What tyres and setup? It's virtually impossible to recreate the FM3 video in GT5 with an MP4 in auto gears going full throttle, with no aids(steering and car), with grip reduction set to real and running partially out off track. I would love to see an example of that.

The C&D write explains some of the reasons, is not an error they are comparing the game difficult to real life track driving.

You really need to see all the other vids to understand how assisted is the handling, even in the psp game comparison the recreation of the same behaviour ends in a constant lose of control and crashes. The weight shift seems that does not unbalance the car, even if you try very hard. There is also some thing going under the wheels wich keep them from spinning too much, even with TCS off.

I'm not discussing the complexity of the physics but my idea of a realistic handling is very far from was in FM3.

Recently a preview in eurogamer stated the same opinion, and even a T10 crew member confirmed the partially arcadish handling in FM3. I'm also hoping FM4 address all that but I'm not sure that they would want to get rid of all the assists. Some of the videos released with no aids looks still running with the help of some 'god hand' to me.

 

[aberckmans]

prob stupid question and already answered but ... will an "old" fanatec wheel work with FM4 (don't remember the name but think it is Porsche Turbo S with Club Sport pedals)?

Thank you gentlemen. Can't wait for the game and thanks for hyping it as gaf can do!

 

[Snkfanatic]

I really do hope we get a demo, that helped ease the wait for 3. I must have driven that Porsche countless times around the track

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Had the cash put by for the CSR Elite since it was first mentioned, was never that impressed with the GT2, it looks terrific but the speed and detail of ffb is lacking compared to the previous gear driven wheels I owned.

From the video I can see the speed is there, hopefully that's not just a floaty drift mode.

I wish he'd hurry up and release the fucking things.

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

Fanatec announced the price of their new wheels.

499€ for the CSR Elite without pedals, ouch !

Fuck that, T500RS it is.

 

[Megasoum]

Fuck that, T500RS it is.

Lol...good luck using that T500RS with Forza...

 

[Frankfurt]

The rage over one achievement requiring Kinect is hilarious.

Yep.

And they pretend the "import a file from Forza 3" achievement isn't just as alienating (actually... There's two Kinects sold for every F3 copy sold, so... The F3 one is more alienating).

 

[enzo_gt]

Yep.

And they pretend the "import a file from Forza 3" achievement isn't just as alienating (actually... There's two Kinects sold for every F3 copy sold, so... The F3 one is more alienating).

What the hell does the ratio of Kinects sold to copies of FM3 have to do with the demographic of people who bought FM3 and are likely to buy FM4? The comparison is nonsensical.

And both + the unicorn one are equally considered bullshit, just the import one is less bullshit by a small margin.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

I have a Kinect so I'm fine. Also I have so many games that I will never get to 1000 anyways so it wouldn't bother me if I had a Kinect or not.

 

[Mascot]

Looks like Turn 10's marketing dept came up with the achievement list. Wonder how late in the day they culled the one for liking them on Facebook?

 

[Snubbers]

What tyres and setup? It's virtually impossible to recreate the FM3 video in GT5 with an MP4 in auto gears going full throttle, with no aids(steering and car), with grip reduction set to real and running partially out off track. I would love to see an example of that.

The C&D write explains some of the reasons, is not an error they are comparing the game difficult to real life track driving.

You really need to see all the other vids to understand how assisted is the handling, even in the psp game comparison the recreation of the same behaviour ends in a constant lose of control and crashes. The weight shift seems that does not unbalance the car, even if you try very hard. There is also some thing going under the wheels wich keep them from spinning too much, even with TCS off.

I'm not discussing the complexity of the physics but my idea of a realistic handling is very far from was in FM3.

Recently a preview in eurogamer stated the same opinion, and even a T10 crew member confirmed the partially arcadish handling in FM3. I'm also hoping FM4 address all that but I'm not sure that they would want to get rid of all the assists. Some of the videos released with no aids looks still running with the help of some 'god hand' to me.

I fully acknowledge the 'softness' in FM3, that's not disputed..

All I can say is, if you think FM3 is a horrifically bad simulator and it's all about high level car feel, and you think all the youtube videos' prove it's all down to some permanent steering aid, then carry on.. I don't share the opinion, I think the vast majority of the softness of FM3 is inherent in the lower level physics and design choices of grip levels, reduced inertia etc.

Oh, the GT5 thing, I didn't realise it was the grippy grass that was being ridiculed (And whilst better, GT5's 'grass' still has the forced TCS and ability to accelerate handily whilst bouncing off the limiter under wheel spin,even on real grip reduction). I thought it was the easy pendulation of the supercar in general being shown, as I said we did a lap of suzuka pendulating side to side (On the track), it's not as easy, but you can still be a driving GOD, on that level (And lets not get into how real it is to still accelerate on grass or the TCS that cuts in when on it!), all these games (shift 2 as well) are also very much easier then iRacing etc..

I do tend to not put much importance in the high level inertial/weight transfer side of things, as I hotlap/race, I tend to be pushing the car on the limit, not going wildly over it and going sideways all the time (perhaps shouting 'POOOWWWAAAAA'), I much more appreciate the 'feel' you get around the limit, that's what rewards me, I love iRacing, I like FM, but other games are quite numb at that level, so I find them not so enjoyable.

 

[soundscream]

Developing Story:

Due to licensing problems they had to make a last minute change where all the cars got replaced with motorcycles. Also the name will be changed to Forza Motorcycles 4Fun. Announcement coming soon.

 

[saladine1]

Developing Story:

Any chance of Forza Watersports to coincide?

 

[brotkasten]

Developing Story:

They finally realized that they wouldn't have a chance against the new Burnout.

 

[SPEEDxNASTY]

Developing Story:

Makes me wonder why no game studio is making a GOOD GT/FM-like motorcycle racing game.
Would be a pretty big challenge to accurately recreate 2 wheels physics...

 

[soundscream]

Any chance of Forza Watersports to coincide?

I'm ready.

 

[adelante]

Any chance of Forza Watersports to coincide?

My GOD....can you imagine, all that shiny jetskis in Autovista mode?!?!? And instead of a warehouse as a homespace, they'll all be sitting on pristine beach waters... :O

 

[Arucardo]

Makes me wonder why no game studio is making a GOOD GT/FM-like motorcycle racing game.
Would be a pretty big challenge to accurately recreate 2 wheels physics...

Tourist Trophy 2 please!


Did you play the original? It had a really good feel for the bikes compared to most motorcycle games.

 

[Jamesways]

Tourist Trophy 2 please!


Did you play the original? It had a really good feel for the bikes compared to most motorcycle games.

YES!!! TT was such a fantastic game. There was some rumblings about PD doing a DLC pack for GT5 before release, but that was dispelled. Hopefully we'll see another version some time.

 

[fu3lfr3nzy]

First time in a year I played FM3, I popped in the disc to buy the community loyal cars and I was specifically looking for the LFA car and even searched the marketplace for the DLC but it doesnt exist.

A bit of google refreshed my memory and I didnt realize it was exclusive to the ultimate version only.

Fuck you Turn 10 >_>

Edit:

Forza Garage Round 1: Do you dare check your mirrors at 170 mph when one of these purebred racecars is in hot pursuit? Welcome the 2010 Mazda #16 Dyson Racing B09/86, 2003 Nissan #12 CALSONIC SKYLINE, and 1999 Toyota #3 Toyota Motorsports GT-ONE TS020 to Forza 4!

 

[G Rom]

The LFA, the CCX and the SLS can (could ?) be had with a code either by being gifted one, by winning a competition or doing some other stuff that I can't remember. Only the Cuda, the 037, the D-Type and the specially painted Audi are really exclusive to the UE.

 

[CrudeDiatribe]

Welcome the 2010 Mazda #16 Dyson Racing B09/86, 2003 Nissan #12 CALSONIC SKYLINE, and 1999 Toyota #3 Toyota Motorsports GT-ONE TS020 to Forza 4!

Goddamnit, does this mean we've got specific race cars wasting space again? How about just having a 2010 Dyson Racing B09/86 with the #16 livery being one of the factory paint jobs?

IMPOTENT INTERNET RAGE! *THUMP*THUMP*THUMP*

Only the Cuda, the 037, the D-Type and the specially painted Audi are really exclusive to the UE

... speaking of rage.

C'mon October.

 

[G Rom]

Honestly, I don't care about Forza Garage today, I want Under the hood 3 so that Dan can announce that we finally can export photos in

Spoiler

...3D

.

 

[fu3lfr3nzy]

The LFA, the CCX and the SLS can (could ?) be had with a code either by being gifted one, by winning a competition or doing some other stuff that I can't remember. Only the Cuda, the 037, the D-Type and the specially painted Audi are really exclusive to the UE.

From what I've read, theres practically no competitions or give aways at this point, so I'm screwed until FM4

Sucks too since I have enough credits in FM3 to buy the LFA and the other community cars :/

 

[SPEEDxNASTY]

Tourist Trophy 2 please!


Did you play the original? It had a really good feel for the bikes compared to most motorcycle games.

Before getting an Xbox360, the last two games running in my PS2 (until it died) were Enthusia and Tourist Trophy.
I remember the countless hours I've spent on the Nurburgring with the 8h of Suzuka bikes, flying on the final long straight line trying to beat my laptimes and throwing in anger the controller everytime I failed.
Was a half-assed game from Polyphony but still remains the best bike racing game up to today.

 

[CrudeDiatribe]

Sucks too since I have enough credits in FM3 to buy the LFA and the other community cars :/

I only had to get the F430 Scuderia and am now just missing the LFA and the Camaro SS. Used half my remaining credits to buy a Cobra 427. It's just amazing with wide tires and modern rubber.

 

[G Rom]

I'll have all the cars except the SS and the RX-7 as I still haven't received it from the preorder incentive thing. I wonder how long it takes to get it ?

 

[CrudeDiatribe]

I'll have all the cars except the SS and the RX-7 as I still haven't received it from the preorder incentive thing. I wonder how long it takes to get it ?

I pre-ordered on August 21, and got it the next time I played in August, so no more than 10 days.

 

[Shortt Sirket]

I pre-ordered on August 21, and got it the next time I played in August, so no more than 10 days.

Yeah, I got mine quite literally the next day.

 

[Shaneus]

Honestly, I don't care about Forza Garage today, I want Under the hood 3 so that Dan can announce that we finally can export photos in

Spoiler

...3D

.

PGR4, again, was the first to do this. Is there anything that game DIDN'T do first?

 

[Cptkrush]

Drive FX came in today, I have to say, I'm really impressed with this thing in Forza 3. For 40 bucks, it's a steal. Bring on October I say.

 

[flyinpiranha]

PGR4, again, was the first to do this. Is there anything that game DIDN'T do first?

Break sales records?

I am also sad as I loved that game until I got seriously stuck on a race. Just couldn't get past this one where they'd always overtake me on the straight bridge.

 

[eso76]

Honestly, I don't care about Forza Garage today, I want Under the hood 3 so that Dan can announce that we finally can export photos in

Spoiler

...3D

.

yeah, how long till the next under the hood ?
do they always update fm.net around the same time ? should i stay up ? close to midnight here...

(i would like to be able to export moving pictures with custom camera angles)

 

[Mascot]

Is Under The Hood on Wednesdays? Thought it was Thursdays. Or is that when they show us a picture of a car?

 

[eso76]

Is Under The Hood on Wednesdays? Thought it was Thursdays. Or is that when they show us a picture of a car?

yep, thursday is garage round up.
tuesday should be top gear day but we got nothing this week

sept 15th is the day of the awesome.

 

[enzo_gt]

Is Under The Hood on Wednesdays? Thought it was Thursdays. Or is that when they show us a picture of a car?

Nonsense, showing us pictures of the cars they announce? Turn10 would never do such a thing, those pictures are precious.

 

[G Rom]

Wednesday in the US, Thursday for the rest of the world...
If the last one is anything to go by, it should be up in 3 or 4 hours. At least it was posted in this thread at that time.

The 3D thing was sarcasm, this would be at the very bottom of my wish list for photo mode actually...

Edit :

Welcome the 2003 Bentley #7 Team Bentley Speed 8, 1997 McLaren #43 Team BMW McLaren F1 GTR, & 1999 BMW #15 BMW V12 LMR to Forza 4!