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[guest1321]

I have been playing Forza 3 on a friends 360 and have never owned my own copy. This thread, plus a good deal (read: only the this Thread), made me break down and buy a copy of it. The game is way more amazing now that I'm going through my own career and it makes me even more excited for Forza 4.

The only thing is: I got it a little over a week ago and am level 50 now. It felt pretty short as far as the leveling goes. So what I want to know is if it was originally intended to take longer and they under estimated how much people would get addicted to the game, or was it intended to be a short leveling period? Dan said that the 150 levels of Forza 4 are supposed to last the most dedicated players 2 years, but he also said that the leveling would be faster. So was Forza 3 supposed to have a similar timeline as what they are saying about Forza 4?
Regardless of the length of leveling in Forza 3 I still have so much to do so it is not a huge concern, I was just curious about how similar Forza 3 expectations are to Forza 4.

 

[enzo_gt]

I have been playing Forza 3 on a friends 360 and have never owned my own copy. This thread, plus a good deal (read: only the this Thread), made me break down and buy a copy of it. The game is way more amazing now that I'm going through my own career and it makes me even more excited for Forza 4.

The only thing is: I got it a little over a week ago and am level 50 now. It felt pretty short as far as the leveling goes. So what I want to know is if it was originally intended to take longer and they under estimated how much people would get addicted to the game, or was it intended to be a short leveling period? Dan said that the 150 levels of Forza 4 are supposed to last the most dedicated players 2 years, but he also said that the leveling would be faster. So was Forza 3 supposed to have a similar timeline as what they are saying about Forza 4?
Regardless of the length of leveling in Forza 3 I still have so much to do so it is not a huge concern, I was just curious about how similar Forza 3 expectations are to Forza 4.

Dude.. how many hours have you put into it now?

I'm no expert, but it seems like you've put a fuckload of hours into it already.

 

[Xanadu]

forza 3s single player was way too long lol

 

[guest1321]

Dude.. how many hours have you put into it now?

I'm no expert, but it seems like you've put a fuckload of hours into it already.

I have put in 24 hours of racing, but I have only really been doing season play. I have only completed 20% of the career and have just started season 6. So I really haven't put that much time in...yet...

 

[Shaneus]

forza 3s single player was way too long lol

Agreed. I was bored when I got to a certain level (around 40 I think) but on the suggestion that the later races offered more XP, I did an R1 race that was some ridiculous amount of laps on La Sarthe with zero assists (not even clutch) and I jumped up about five or six levels in one hit after finishing it. Took me at least 6 hours, from memory.

 

[Ravenn17]

New Fanatec CSR Elite Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VicX8dROHYE&feature=player_embedded

 

[adelante]

http://i.eho.st/pjf387uf.jpg[//img]

average forza 4 screenshot[/QUOTE]
lol Forza4's the cutest game ever!!

 

[eek5]

New Fanatec CSR Elite Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VicX8dROHYE&feature=player_embedded

Possible (not-hot) swappable wheels for CSR Elite. Heh


BTW If my wheel doesn't work on the next Xbox I'm going to be so mad..

 

[okenny]

Possible (not-hot) swappable wheels for CSR Elite. Heh


BTW If my wheel doesn't work on the next Xbox I'm going to be so mad..

Hot tears... they will be shed

Spoiler

...by you :3

 

[amar212]

BTW If my wheel doesn't work on the next Xbox I'm going to be so mad..

I have really high hopes that someone overthere in white-collar department got a grip about the actual damage they are doing to sales of many multiplatform driving games and especially Forza series because they do not support HID-FF and have that crazy wireless standards.

It would really be nothing less than astonishing to realize how they successfully launched 3rd generation of their hardware with continuation of ignoring millions of potential cross-platform players who already have USB-HID wheels.

I have my fingers crossed because such move would certainly give a new life to competition in the genre.

 

[Ravenn17]

and

The CSR Elite looks strikingly similar to the LFA steering wheel in shape and design (hand grips). The rounded top part of the CSR Elite wheel isn't carbon, is it?

 

[Gek54]

This has been discussed at length on GTPlanet, the steering aid isn't remotely as sinister as people make out, it isn't ideal of course, but it's not remotely what people think it is (IMO).
http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=4238725#post4238725

The speed sensitive steering is a much worse issue (again IMO), but people seem to readily accept this and only see the wobbly steering..

That video you posted is getting old now, the guy shows a car that is easy to catch and shows the wobbly telemetry steering wheel data, and claims some uber massive assist, he made zero effort to isolate and analyse if it was that making the car easy to catch, or if it's inherent in the physics model..

All I will say is there are other games that are supposedly 1:1 steering, with excellent physics etc and yet you can pendulate a supercar side to side like this ad-infinitum.. The simple fact is, such assists that lead to the this behavior (softening of control) are normally buried deeper in the physics engine and aren't normally visible in any way, so people never question it..

All IMO..



I think it's power oversteer that people find absent sometimes, it happens to me, but this is more about the 'grip' then anything else, if you can get the rear wheels spinning, any glitchy steering isn't going to stop that, it will start to pendulate, but getting it 'going' with the physics setup in FM3 is tough for some cars.. The V8 aussie supercars are examples where they do nothing but oversteer at any throttle opening..

That is my video. The point is not the car's physics are wrong but to show the huge discrepancy between how I am actually steering with the wheel controller vs what the car is actually doing. A sim should allow you to steer a car as you would in reality, it should not steer for you...ever, certainly not when using a 900 degree wheel.

Turn10 has all but admitted to this and while they sound like they are addressing the problem, I am not too sure they are going to finally give us 1:1 linear steering 100% of the time as real cars do.

Finally, we added the “simulation steering” option. This option removes all of the controller aides. There were very few of these aides on the wheel controller, but there were several on the console controller. With these aides removed, you will no longer get help finding the right counter-steering angle. If you over-countersteer (meaning you overcorrect by steering into the angle of the slide), the wheels do as commanded. This usually results in a wicked tank-slapper. Also, initial turn-in is direct and linear. This can feel very twitchy. When you command the game to go lock to lock-to-lock, it assumes you mean it and lets you live with the consequences.

What is wierd is that they just say "initial turn-in is direct and linear" and not steering is linear all of the time.

I am hoping they really meant the later, if not, pass.

 

[HawksWinStanley]

forza 3s single player was way too long lol

Tell me about it. I finished season 6 and I have 62 more events left on the event list.

After I finish those up I'll have 100% for Forza 3.

 

[eso76]

I am hoping they really meant the later, if not, pass.

linear 1:1 steering with a controller sounds like madness.
I don't see why they wouldn't offer that with a 900 degree wheel though.

Dan specifically said you won't get help finding the correct countersteering angle this time, he also said they researched how fast a professional driver can turn a wheel lock to lock, so i'm pretty sure he's just talking about how fast the steering wheel reacts when countersteering using a controller, which can't be 1:1 for obvious reasons.

 

[amar212]

linear 1:1 steering with a controller sounds like madness to me.
I don't see why they wouldn't offer that with a 900 degree wheel though

Actual steering will probably be 1:1 but I guess we will never see in in animation.

It really looks ridiculous and Shift2 provides the best example.

I much prefer GT5 way, where car is doing 1:1 steering but in-car animation just shows eye-friendlier 270 degree animation.

 

[Snubbers]

That is my video. The point is not the car's physics are wrong but to show the huge discrepancy between how I am actually steering with the wheel controller vs what the car is actually doing. A sim should allow you to steer a car as you would in reality, it should not steer for you...ever, certainly not when using a 900 degree wheel.

Turn10 has all but admitted to this and while they sound like they are addressing the problem, I am not too sure they are going to finally give us 1:1 linear steering 100% of the time as real cars do.

When sliding a car around, there is always a huge discrepency between what the steering is doing and what the car does, the tyres/suspension/car's weight/inertia all mean the steering wheel is nothing more then a vague input 'demand'.

I've seen it analysed over on the GTPlanet, and I agree that it isn't ideal, but it's really not doing what people think it's doing, i.e. having any marked effect on the actual physics of the car, that's all done lower down.. Not to mention the real killer, the speed sensitive steering.. that's 100x worse..

What is wierd is that they just say "initial turn-in is direct and linear" and not steering is linear all of the time.

I am hoping they really meant the later, if not, pass.

And as has also been mentioned, isn't the notion of 1:1 steering and 'simulation steering' a bit false? In terms of all the games I've played on a console if I can pendulate side to side a supercar ad-infinitum in a game, it's physics engine is adding plenty of 'assistance' lower down, even if I think the input is 1:1, clearly the physics engine is affecting the cars behaviour to soften it, whether that is done at a noticeably high level (i.e. Steering wheel telemetry in FM) or at a lower level in the physics, it ultimately makes no difference, it isn't doing what it should do for the steering input I give it..

However, I can say that I'm sure your video has single handedly lead to the 'simulation steering' option being so prevalently marketed! I'm ten times more glad that the speed sensitive aspect has gone, and of course happy any noticeable to the user wobbles will be erradicated (I'm just not convinced these wouldn't just appear futher down if they want to slightly soften any behaviour)..

 

[Pepto]

Not to mention the real killer, the speed sensitive steering.. that's 100x worse..

But aren't real cars using this nowadays?

 

[supersaw]

I much prefer GT5 way, where car is doing 1:1 steering but in-car animation just shows eye-friendlier 270 degree animation.

I much prefer the iRacing way where there are no hand models, the wheel is free to spin as many degrees as supported by your wheel or you can simply turn the wheel model off since I already have a wheel in front of me I find it distracting to see another one that's locking up at the wrong point.

 

[LeBoef]

That picture from the article is one of the best photos of Forza 4 I have ever seen.

been at the nordschleife 2 weeks ago and watched the VLN Race (so far i ve only FIA GT and SBK).
that z4 and the SLS GT3 had the most amazing sound. i am going nuts if forza is able to catch even a hint of that.

trying to picture it for you:
there were some vipers and corvettes racing. you didnt hear them at all among the other cars (which is unbelievable, since they re amazing as stock road cars), like the volvo v8, 190 evo, etc.
that z4, the merc and the manthey porsche were just above everything in loudness and pure engine sound.


btw, is the SLS GT3 ingame?

 

[Snubbers]

But aren't real cars using this nowadays?

The most common implementation of Speed Sensitive steering in the real world is just that as speed decreases, power assistance increases, but the steering is still 1:1 with the same 'gearing' to the wheels.

The speed sensitive steering in FM changes the gearing of the steering wheel to the actual wheels, such that the faster you go, the less steering lock you effectively have and the steering effectively softens.

I'm not sure if variably geared speed sensitive steering has made it on to road cars, I don't think it'd be well received on a track?

 

[G Rom]

The SLS GT3 hasn't been confirmed yet but I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up in the game either at release or later in a DLC.
I've updated the OP with the (lackluster) Forza Garage. I hope they'll reveal the full car list before release as I'd like to have it for the OT (everyone's ok that I'm doing it BTW ?).

 

[eso76]

There are two aspects to speed senstive steering in the real world..

It can mean that as speed decreases, power assistance increases, but the steering is still 1:1 with the same 'gearing' to the wheels.

The speed sensitive steering in FM changes the gearing of the steering wheel to the actual wheels, such that the faster you go, the less steering lock you effectively have and the steering effectively softens.

again, that's needed when using a controller though.

 

[Snubbers]

again, that's needed when using a controller though.

Yes, I would think so, having 1:1 steering on a controller is really not what people probably actually want (it's really for wheel users).

On a related side note, I was impressed that T10 tweaked the controller response/assists such that you can be very competitive on a controller as opposed to a wheel, the downside is that I think that perhaps controller users had some small advantages, a lot of top times are set using the controller, and following ghosts of them when hot-lapping, they can do some crazy turn in manoevres, which is where I lose time to them (Might be just me)..

I think assisting controller users to be competitive is probably a good thing in helping develop a wider audience for T10, but I'd like to see the wheel having the slight edge on a personal level, it's certainly true for games like F1 2010 and GT5 etc, although having a massive advantage to wheel users probably isn't ideal either..

 

[Mascot]

Can't believe people are complaining that the FM3 career was too long. Would you prefer it just ended after season 6 with repeating already-completed races the only option left? It's not compulsory to complete the career grid: it's there if you want it. Unless people are more unhappy that the final 'cheeve was hard to get? If so, prepare to be angered by FM4.

Edit: G, you get my vote for the OT.

 

[supersaw]

I sincerely hope that apart from steering tweaks we also get sharper force-feedback, the FM3 feedback felt muted and rubbery.

 

[duk]

gimme my old 99 mitsu eclipse GSX turbo pls

 

[saladine1]

Still holding back on the Mazda RX3 announcement T 10?

 

[amar212]

I think assisting controller users to be competitive is probably a good thing in helping develop a wider audience for T10, but I'd like to see the wheel having the slight edge on a personal level, it's certainly true for games like F1 2010 and GT5 etc, although having a massive advantage to wheel users probably isn't ideal either..

It is really a matter how particular game is developed handling&physics-wise.

For instance, GT series is being developed around the wheel ("from wheel to controller") since early development stages of GT3 game during 1998 and 1999. Documentary from 2000, "Gran Turismo Attack" is a brilliant showcase of GT series development process at a time, where you can clearly see the effort done in PD in order to capture inputs from real life cars steering-wise and implement them in the game.

In those years Logitech and Immersion Co. were partners with PD in development of initial generation of TouchSense software (used on first generations of GT Force wheel family) which will later lead to full utilization of 1:1 movement early in 2002, when first prototypes of 900 wheels were presented internally (which will later become genre-groundbreaking Driving Force Pro model) and implemented for the first time for the Gran Turismo 4: Prologue game in 2003.

Many people also do not know how latest high-end Thrustmaster T500RS wheel is in fact Polyphony Digital's baby. T500RS have been imagined by Kazunori Yamauchi and his engineers while Thrustmaster have been chosen to become a partner for its actual production. Also worth noticing is how R&D phase of T500RS have apparently been funded personally by KY and that his vision of full 1080 degree steering will certainly become a standard in years to come.

On the other side, majority of driving games - even in this generation - are not developed "from wheel to controller" but vice-versa. Even "simulation" games such as Ferrari Challenge Trofeo Pirelli (Eutechnyx, PS3), Race Pro (Simbin, X360) or Forza 2/3 have obviously not being developed from wheel to controller, since the discrepancies in both steering sensation and actual steering model between wheel and controller are vast.

I have a strong hopes how recent boom of wheels on market and especially a great venture T10 did with Fanatec regarding development of Forza-related wheels will be a step in the same direction that PD is doing for more than a decade now.

I sincerely hope that apart from steering tweaks we also get sharper force-feedback, the FM3 feedback felt muted and rubbery.

It is matter of actual FF technology used in X360 hardware. You can read my writeup about that matter here (it is made in 2009, prior to release of FM3).

Also notice that you can drastically improve FF feel of Forza 3 on Fanatec wheels if you set the *Drift* setting to 5, removing the dampening effect in full and allowing 1:1 motor-input sensation.

 

[Gek54]

When sliding a car around, there is always a huge discrepency between what the steering is doing and what the car does, the tyres/suspension/car's weight/inertia all mean the steering wheel is nothing more then a vague input 'demand'.

I've seen it analysed over on the GTPlanet, and I agree that it isn't ideal, but it's really not doing what people think it's doing, i.e. having any marked effect on the actual physics of the car, that's all done lower down.. Not to mention the real killer, the speed sensitive steering.. that's 100x worse..



And as has also been mentioned, the notion of 1:1 steering and 'simulation steering' is really a bit false in terms of all the games I've played on a console, the reason is that if I can pendulate side to side a supercar ad-infinitum in a game, it's physics engine is adding plenty of 'assistance' lower down, even if I think the input is 1:1, clearly the physics engine is affecting the cars behaviour to soften it, whether that is done at a noticeably high level (i.e. Steering wheel telemetry in FM) or at a lower level in the physics, it ultimately makes no difference, it isn't doing what it should do for the steering input I give it..

I am able to kick the back wheels out and regain control of the car simply by holding the 900-degree wheel at 90 degrees each time while the car sorted itself out. That is the discrepancy. It takes control away from you as the driver. Its a huge disconnect for anyone that knows better, for anyone who doesnt expect the game to baby you back into control of the car.

 

[supersaw]

It is matter of actual FF technology used in X360 hardware. You can read my writeup about that matter here (it is made in 2009, prior to release of FM3).

Also notice that you can drastically improve FF feel of Forza 3 on Fanatec wheels if you set the *Drift* setting to 5, removing the dampening effect in full and allowing 1:1 motor-input sensation.

Yup, I've done that it still doesn't feel quite as responsive as SimBin games or iRacing but a world better than the likes of Shift and Shift 2. I think because of the wireless connection there is also some input lag that's barely noticeable but it would be there.

Your writeup is very insightful although a little depressing, sounds like a horrible design decision by Microsoft considering that they then go and release a motion camera that has to be many many times more taxing on the console CPU than the generation of fairly simple force feedback commands.

** Edit: I know Kinekt has it's own processor but it also utilises the xbox one to a degree.

 

[amar212]

...sounds like a horrible design decision by Microsoft considering that they then go and release a motion camera that has to be many many times more taxing on the console CPU than the generation of fairly simple force feedback commands.
.

It has nothing to do with CPU or such, but with deliberate business-decision in terms of profit forecasted from licensing deals and partially by stupid policy-constraint about having just one controller-device linked to one user-profile.

HID-controller probably sits somewhere on X360 motherboard next to USB imputs - hell, my USB "charge&play" kit is almost certainly using it as well as all other "wireyes" controllers - but I have to presume how every other type of device in forbidden to communicate with it through some BIOS restrictions - probably related with both security issues and hefty fees Microsoft is making through licensing deals with 3rd party hardware-manufacturers.

 

[-MikePriester-]

Holding out the last hope for *something at TGS.

*something being anything to do with something that we don't already know about.. a track/feature/something something.

for the OT (everyone's ok that I'm doing it BTW ?).

No offence to anyone else, but I think you'll do it justice. You've kept right on top of most of the updates in the thread so it only makes sense.

 

[supersaw]

It has nothing to do with CPU or such, but with deliberate business-decision in terms of profit forecasted from licensing deals and partially by stupid policy-constraint about having just one controller-device linked to one user-profile.

Good point. I hate that restriction and the fact that I have to turn my wheel off to decal my car using the controller :S

 

[Snubbers]

I am able to kick the back wheels out and regain control of the car simply by holding the 900-degree wheel at 90 degrees each time while the car sorted itself out. That is the discrepancy. It takes control away from you as the driver. Its a huge disconnect for anyone that knows better, for anyone who doesnt expect the game to baby back into control of the car.

The analysis on GTPlanet showed that the steering 'kick' wasn't having any massive effect on that at all..

Just watching your video doesn't really show much, the whole car looks 'soft', you countersteer and let off the throttle, if you ignore the telemetry and just look at the car's behaviour, it seems to look like a softly setup car with lots of grip, as soon as you back off the throttle, it's gripping.. it looks massively like the inertial 'force' is heavily subdued in FM, either by physics design, or high grip levels.

The video just isn't remotely scientific, all it shows is some telemetry steering wobble when you change the steering wheel direction when it's sliding, only when someone isolated it and looked carefully in more controlled conditions (and I agree with the analysis), can you at least come to a more informed opinion.. and it certainly doesn't seem to baby you from looking at the isolated tests, it actually turns more into the slide as it does away from it as it oscillates.. What's your rebuttle on that?

And before this gets out of hand, I'll point out again that all console racers I've currently got all 'baby you' to one degree or another, I can pendulate supercars in the same way, just blip the throttle to start the slide, let off, bit of countersteering and does this all day long.. yet no one is hung up about their 1:1 steering and hidden assists.. it might be harder in other games, and FM4 looks to be heading that way, but I bet I can still behave like a 'driving god' in it.. I'm shocked the kick upsets you, but the speed sensitive range limiting is something you don't find issue with.

It has nothing to do with CPU or such, but with deliberate business-decision in terms of profit forecasted from licensing deals and partially by stupid policy-constraint about having just one controller-device linked to one user-profile.

HID-controller probably sits somewhere on X360 motherboard next to USB imputs - hell, my USB "charge&play" kit is almost certainly using it as well as all other "wireyes" controllers - but I have to presume how every other type of device in forbidden to communicate with it through some BIOS restrictions - probably related with both security issues and hefty fees Microsoft is making through licensing deals with 3rd party hardware-manufacturers.

Aren't keyboards HID? in which case the 360 supports in on a technical level, as you can just plug in a USB keyboard..

HID is just a protocol at the end of the day isn't it? So it's all software driven, no hardware required..

It really would just take MS to open it up in software, the biggest hurdle is all the XID games wouldn't work with it (well not forgetting the money factor for licencing, it would be very easy to bypass HID checks for unlicenced peripherals, not so easy for XID IIRC)..

 

[Snubbers]

Sorry, dbl post..

 

[Gek54]

The analysis on GTPlanet showed that the steering 'kick' wasn't having any massive effect on that at all..

Just watching your video doesn't really show much, the whole car looks 'soft', you countersteer and let off the throttle, if you ignore the telemetry and just look at the car's behaviour, it seems to look like a softly setup car with lots of grip, as soon as you back off the throttle, it's gripping.. it looks massively like the inertial 'force' is heavily subdued in FM, either by physics design, or high grip levels.

The video just isn't remotely scientific, all it shows is some telemetry steering wobble when you change the steering wheel direction when it's sliding, only when someone isolated it and looked carefully in more controlled conditions (and I agree with the analysis), can you at least come to a more informed opinion.. and it certainly doesn't seem to baby you from looking at the isolated tests, it actually turns more into the slide as it does away from it as it oscillates.. What's your rebuttle on that?

And before this gets out of hand, I'll point out again that all console racers I've currently got all 'baby you' to one degree or another, I can pendulate supercars in the same way, just blip the throttle to start the slide, let off, bit of countersteering and does this all day long.. yet no one is hung up about their 1:1 steering and hidden assists.. it might be harder in other games, and FM4 looks to be heading that way, but I bet I can still behave like a 'driving god' in it.. I'm shocked the kick upsets you, but the speed sensitive range limiting is something you don't find issue with.

I should be sawing at the wheel just as I have to do in the more respectable sims and as I do in real life, not simply holding the wheel at 90 degrees each time. I can reproduce this with any car on any track in the game no matter its setup. Its not the car or the physics, the game is steering for you as Turn10 explained: "With these aides removed, you will no longer get help finding the right counter-steering angle." Turn10 admitted that FM3 does in fact steer for you, I dont know what more evidence you need.

And I do have an issue with speed sensitive range as well, any non linear steering is a huge turn off.

 

[Snubbers]

I should be sawing at the wheel just as I have to do in the more respectable sims and as I do in real life, not simply holding the wheel at 90 degrees each time. I can reproduce this with any car on any track in the game no matter its setup. Its not the car or the physics, the game is steering for you as Turn10 explained: "With these aides removed, you will no longer get help finding the right counter-steering angle." Turn10 admitted that FM3 does in fact steer for you, I dont know what more evidence you need.

And I do have an issue with speed sensitive range as well, any non linear steering is a huge turn off.

But, it's been proven when someone isolated it, that it's not the 'permanent steering assist' that is having this huge effect..

You could explain it all by saying it has a sub-dued representation of inertia, and high grip levels, or any other hypothesis, at least with the steering issue, it was easy to isolate, you have the telemetry and some simple tests, and you can see how much it's contributing, which is bugger all..

And if you read the entire T10 sentence,

Finally, we added the “simulation steering” option. This option removes all of the controller aides. There were very few of these aides on the wheel controller, but there were several on the console controller. With these aides removed, you will no longer get help finding the right counter-steering angle

It's been revealed the extent of the controller assists in FM3, one of these is to detect when the car is sliding and help you with the input, so it's fair to say the closing statement could just be applied to the controller, and again, looking at the isolated tests, the kick/oscillation is centered by the actual steering input which doesn't fit that at all, if it was searching for some assisted counter-steering point, the oscillation would be centered differently..

I agree that the game was too 'soft' in terms of behaving as if grip levels are too high, I'm glad FM4 looks to be better, I play all the same hardcore sims as every other serious racer, so I know which games have this softer approach, and which don't, I can't however with the isolated tests done by others agree with your high level assumptive hypothesis.

I do a lot of hotlapping in FM3, whilst I totally agree that some aspects of grip are 'softer' then others (or need to be), controlling some cars like the V8 Aussie supercars is really really difficult, you do 'saw' at the wheel, you are constantly modulating throttle/steering to find that last bit of traction on an exit, you never get this 'disconnect' people talk about..

Only if you try some wild sliding in a pendulation manner are things shown to be less then ideal, which I don't dispute, it's putting the cars in extreme situations where some artistic liberties seem to be built in, but go and drive them on the limit normally, and things are much better..

 

[evil_as_skeletor]

Still holding back on the Mazda RX3 announcement T 10?

Fingers crossed!
Rx3 coupe and Simmons FR's: a match made in heaven.

 

[saladine1]

Hmmm...ladies and gentlemen...hmmmmm

 

[evil_as_skeletor]

Hmmm...ladies and gentlemen...hmmmmm

Whoa! Bentley?

It's not the speed six, but it is the same year-ish, right? 1925-1930??

 

[Snubbers]

Hmmm...ladies and gentlemen...hmmmmm

Kind of 'open wheeler'?? would be another non-driveable AV Car?

 

[Mascot]

Another tease..?
I don't want AV cars I can't drive in the game.

 

[Diablohead]

"Be the winning bidder on any "unicorn" car in the Auction House."

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA turn10 be trolling

 

[Mascot]

"Be the winning bidder on any "unicorn" car in the Auction House."

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA turn10 be trolling

Yep. Some of the 'cheeves in FM4 are truly fucked. I'm surprised there's not one for buying the LCE.

 

[brotkasten]

Hmmm...ladies and gentlemen...hmmmmm

It's old, we probably can't race it ("Pirelli didn't have the data for those tires", "too slow"), I don't care.

 

[Apex]

The video just isn't remotely scientific, all it shows is some telemetry steering wobble when you change the steering wheel direction when it's sliding, only when someone isolated it and looked carefully in more controlled conditions (and I agree with the analysis), can you at least come to a more informed opinion.. and it certainly doesn't seem to baby you from looking at the isolated tests, it actually turns more into the slide as it does away from it as it oscillates.. What's your rebuttle on that?

There are more examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WhLBp9uXhQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFT0zlVZVsw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F4MD7D2FiY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKL-hlQa0Hc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PGrDgJ9zmU

I don't know what isolated tests are you talking about but the differences driving at the limit, recovering mistakes and in most of the handling physics that are suposed to make a sim hardcore are HUGE in FM3 versus the competition.

The forgiving handling was noted even by the motor press:
http://www.caranddriver.com/feature...omparison_3a_gti_and_m3_at_laguna_seca_page_2

 

[flyinpiranha]

New Fanatec CSR Elite Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VicX8dROHYE&feature=player_embedded

"4 sets of pedals by the end of the year"

Besides the basic plastic ones that come in bundles and the ClubSport Pedals which ones is he talking about? I'm glad I didn't hold back and got the GT2 earlier as I really dislike the look of that wheel (and the price!) but the pedals are something of a different nature.

I was going to order them in about 2 weeks in preparation for F4 but are there new (maybe better?) pedals in the works than the CSPs?

I also noticed on that last half there was a glossy and huge handled shifter, I don't believe this is the CS shifter as the one he showed earlier in the year was a lot more boxy but I haven't seen that one before, is it different than the shifter they sell on the site?

EDIT: Mentions "4 different pedals, 3 different shifters" at the end of the year at the 7:00 mark, and the other shifter is seen at 11:52

 

[eso76]

It's old, we probably can't race it

and even if we could we would need an appropriate track.

a 20km p2p track across the countryside would do, i think.

 

[twinturbo2]

Yup.

The rage over one achievement requiring Kinect is hilarious.

 

[op_ivy]

I have really high hopes that someone overthere in white-collar department got a grip about the actual damage they are doing to sales of many multiplatform driving games and especially Forza series because they do not support HID-FF and have that crazy wireless standards.

It would really be nothing less than astonishing to realize how they successfully launched 3rd generation of their hardware with continuation of ignoring millions of potential cross-platform players who already have USB-HID wheels.

I have my fingers crossed because such move would certainly give a new life to competition in the genre.

between this and nearly the end of this gen anyways - this is why i'm holding off on a new wheel