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Forza Motorsport 4 - The Floodgates Have Opened...

S

SPEEDxNASTY

Neo Member
skyfinch said:
I am going to add a couple these to the wheel and bam! Force feed back steering. Haters will hate, but by then, I will be in first place.

resistance-bands.jpg
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Combining gaming and body building eh? Not a bad idea... Rofl

183141_f496.jpg
 
Hawk269

Hawk269

Member
So whatever happened to this large file that we were suppose to get? The one that no one knew exactly what it was..demo, movie file etc???
 
S

Snubbers

Member
Ahh, nuts..

I've just got back from holiday and realised that FM4 is at GAMEfest at the NEC. (UK), that would have been perfect for me, being only 40 mins away is on this weekend! You could only get tickets online, and its too late :(

I guess I'll just have to wait for the demo.....
 
J

jcutner

Member
They just showed Forza 4 during the ALMS Broadcast of Laguna Seca

Laguna Seca with the Muscle Milk LMP1 car

Looked awesome!
 
S

Spaceman Spiff

Member
jcutner said:
They just showed Forza 4 during the ALMS Broadcast of Laguna Seca

Laguna Seca with the Muscle Milk LMP1 car

Looked awesome!
Click to expand...

Agreed. Much better than FM3 in terms of lighting, environmental detail, and draw distance, with a superb sense of speed-- although being in an LMP1 must have had something to do with that!

I assume we'll also get a lap of Road Atlanta in 2 weeks at Petit Le Mans.
 
S

Seanspeed

Banned
Ah man. I just got done playing Forza 3 and it reminded even more of how asinine all these nitpicky complaints are about how good the lighting is on Fujimi Kaido and whatever. There's soooo much more that we should worry about.

First and foremost for me is the balance between AWD and RWD cars. Seriously, maybe 1 in 15 people online use RWD because its so god damn inferior due to Turn 10's ridiculous inability to balance the two with the PI system. Their whole, "Well its what our simulations say is correct' attitude is bullshit. Its a lazy way out of admitting that their shit is fucked up.

If they dont fix this, even somewhat, in Forza 4, I'm gonna be pretty upset. It really takes away from how good online could be. Not only does it suck to be a fan of using RWD(which any motorsport fan should be), it takes away a good HALF of the viable cars for online use. Thats not good for anyone. It reduces the amount of variety we have available to us, which is something that a game like Forza(for car lovers) shouldn't be doing.
 
Slayer-33

Slayer-33

Liverpool-2
Even though you can click 720p the video is not HD quality I think, it has so much compression.

Still looks good, the track seems very detailed.
 
D

Diablohead

Member
Seanspeed said:
Ah man. I just got done playing Forza 3 and it reminded even more of how asinine all these nitpicky complaints are about how good the lighting is on Fujimi Kaido and whatever. There's soooo much more that we should worry about.

First and foremost for me is the balance between AWD and RWD cars. Seriously, maybe 1 in 15 people online use RWD because its so god damn inferior due to Turn 10's ridiculous inability to balance the two with the PI system. Their whole, "Well its what our simulations say is correct' attitude is bullshit. Its a lazy way out of admitting that their shit is fucked up.

If they dont fix this, even somewhat, in Forza 4, I'm gonna be pretty upset. It really takes away from how good online could be. Not only does it suck to be a fan of using RWD(which any motorsport fan should be), it takes away a good HALF of the viable cars for online use. Thats not good for anyone. It reduces the amount of variety we have available to us, which is something that a game like Forza(for car lovers) shouldn't be doing.
Click to expand...
They work out PI using the AI and we all know the AI brake too early in corners in forza games... you can out break them every time even on hard.

This means the AI could not drive the AWD vehicles as well as RWD but once you get a human driving the PI is wack because we drive better.

A simple patch to adjust some PI values would have been most welcomed in forza 3 but they gave no shit about it at all, some sim.
 
2

2600

Member
Seanspeed said:
Ah man. I just got done playing Forza 3 and it reminded even more of how asinine all these nitpicky complaints are about how good the lighting is on Fujimi Kaido and whatever. There's soooo much more that we should worry about.

First and foremost for me is the balance between AWD and RWD cars. Seriously, maybe 1 in 15 people online use RWD because its so god damn inferior due to Turn 10's ridiculous inability to balance the two with the PI system. Their whole, "Well its what our simulations say is correct' attitude is bullshit. Its a lazy way out of admitting that their shit is fucked up.

If they dont fix this, even somewhat, in Forza 4, I'm gonna be pretty upset. It really takes away from how good online could be. Not only does it suck to be a fan of using RWD(which any motorsport fan should be), it takes away a good HALF of the viable cars for online use. Thats not good for anyone. It reduces the amount of variety we have available to us, which is something that a game like Forza(for car lovers) shouldn't be doing.
Click to expand...

This was talked about a bit in Under the Hood 2. Looks like there's reason to hope the AWD/RWD disparity might be better this time. Time will tell if it's been balanced enough to make RWD truly competitive, which I agree would be great for opening up the variety of cars that can be used realistically (competitively, that is) online.

There were also two big changes in the PI simulation itself. Looking at the PI simulation in Forza 3, we found that AWD cars were not accelerating out of the corners as effectively as they would in the real world. This meant that the average speed for their simulated lap was lower—thus they had lower PI. This error was related to the code as well as the simulation track geometry. So we changed the track geometry to have more increasing radius lines to follow. We also changed the code to push the front tire limits more while accelerating (especially for AWD cars). These changes made the AWD cars faster in the simulation. By making them faster in the simulation, they get a higher PI. Obviously, these changes don’t change how fast they are on the track when you’re driving them. This just changes how they are scored by the PI system. Therefore, higher PI simulation results for AWD cars means less headroom for upgrades before hitting the class boundary.
Click to expand...
 
C

CrunchinJelly

formerly cjelly
Slayer-33 said:
Even though you can click 720p the video is not HD quality I think, it has so much compression.

Still looks good, the track seems very detailed.
Click to expand...
Yup. Looks like they have expanded the trackside detail quite a bit. Looks a lot more detailed because of it.
 
2

2600

Member
Diablohead said:
They work out PI using the AI and we all know the AI brake too early in corners in forza games... you can out break them every time even on hard.

This means the AI could not drive the AWD vehicles as well as RWD but once you get a human driving the PI is wack because we drive better.

A simple patch to adjust some PI values would have been most welcomed in forza 3 but they gave no shit about it at all, some sim.
Click to expand...

Also from Under the Hood 2, they did at least address that specifically. Whether or not there is any BS in their explanation is a matter of opinion, I suppose. But this is what they said:

Unfortunately, we couldn’t realistically address the Forza 3 PI issues with a title update. In order to address PI in Forza 3, we would have had to put an entirely new database out there in a title update. And, the database is larger than what is allowed for a title update. Therefore, the only way to get the new database out would be with a user-selected or “Trojan Horse” DLC. There are many restrictions on this type of DLC. Also, the likelihood of mismatched databases between players is very high. The final straw was this: In order to make this fix, we would have had to wipe all of the scoreboards and “fix up” everyone’s saved games, as well as delete all of the tuning files, ghosts, and replays in the community (including those on the storefront, in your local save game, and those currently installed on all of the cars in your garage). In the end, we elected to study the issues in Forza 3 with better data-logging so that we could hopefully address them all in Forza 4.
Click to expand...
 
D

Diablohead

Member
2600 said:
Also from Under the Hood 2, they did at least address that specifically. Whether or not there is any BS in their explanation is a matter of opinion, I suppose. But this is what they said:
Click to expand...
doesn't sound reassuring that they can fix problems for forza 4 if any appear which I hope does not happen.
 
S

Seanspeed

Banned
Diablohead said:
They work out PI using the AI and we all know the AI brake too early in corners in forza games... you can out break them every time even on hard.

This means the AI could not drive the AWD vehicles as well as RWD but once you get a human driving the PI is wack because we drive better.

A simple patch to adjust some PI values would have been most welcomed in forza 3 but they gave no shit about it at all, some sim.
Click to expand...
I honestly dont believe Turn 10 when they say that the PI is worked out purely by their AI simulations. I think thats another one of their 'copout' responses as to why things are the way they are in their games. It makes no sense that the AI would have trouble driving AWD cars since they are obviously so much easier to drive in the game. And even if it were true, it wouldn't be to the extent that it is in the game. Seriously, some cars lose 30 to 40 PI with an AWD swap, even though it doesn't actually slow the car down. Which means they have an extra 30-40 PI of upgrades they can play with over my RWD car, which is bullshit.

I dont understand how a game that is supposed to feature prominent motorsports aspects can completely shit on RWD cars so much.

I suspect that its something with how they simulate weight penalties. Which would explain perfectly how its better, more often than not, to give your car more power instead of reducing weight.

2600 said:
This was talked about a bit in Under the Hood 2. Looks like there's reason to hope the AWD/RWD disparity might be better this time. Time will tell if it's been balanced enough to make RWD truly competitive, which I agree would be great for opening up the variety of cars that can be used realistically (competitively, that is) online.
Click to expand...
Well that does sound good. Fingers crossed!
 
2

2600

Member
Diablohead said:
doesn't sound reassuring that they can fix problems for forza 4 if any appear which I hope does not happen.
Click to expand...

Hmm, you're right. Hadn't thought of it that way.

You know what, I just had a thought: This is the type of thing that would really benefit from rolling out a public beta testing period as seen in other games that have a significant online element. Use the data gathered to nail down the balancing before hand, if changing it after release is not feasible. Why not!? I guess I know the answer is probably time (i.e. strict release schedule).

Yet, we're still in that window of time where we can imagine they have pulled it off, and hope they haven't managed to somehow inexplicably make it...worse.
 
S

Shaneus

Member
Seanspeed said:
I honestly dont believe Turn 10 when they say that the PI is worked out purely by their AI simulations. I think thats another one of their 'copout' responses as to why things are the way they are in their games. It makes no sense that the AI would have trouble driving AWD cars since they are obviously so much easier to drive in the game. And even if it were true, it wouldn't be to the extent that it is in the game. Seriously, some cars lose 30 to 40 PI with an AWD swap, even though it doesn't actually slow the car down. Which means they have an extra 30-40 PI of upgrades they can play with over my RWD car, which is bullshit.

I dont understand how a game that is supposed to feature prominent motorsports aspects can completely shit on RWD cars so much.

I suspect that its something with how they simulate weight penalties. Which would explain perfectly how its better, more often than not, to give your car more power instead of reducing weight.
Click to expand...
tmgU7.png
 
W

Watevaman

Member
That Muscle Milk car doesn't sound anything like it did when I saw it at Baltimore. The low end had a lot more grunt than it did in Forza and the higher end sounded more like some kind of Ferrari.

But you can't have everything.
 
S

Shaneus

Member
That road glow is really distracting. Are there any roads *anywhere* (that aren't wet) that would reflect sunlight like that?
 
W

Watevaman

Member
Shaneus said:
That road glow is really distracting. Are there any roads *anywhere* (that aren't wet) that would reflect sunlight like that?
Click to expand...

Depends on the surface. Some of the places around here where they've patched the road with that pure tar (no rocks in it) is really reflective if the sun is at a good angle, but it wouldn't be uniform like you see in the video.
 
2

2600

Member
blanky said:
Any of you guys watching ALMS now? Some super tight and aggressive racing in GT class, as always really. http://www.americanlemans.com/primary1.php?cat=live for Europeans who want a nice stream.

If only Forza 4 had all the GT2 cars, but it doesn't seem like they bothered.
Click to expand...

Yep. Been watching pretty much the whole season on the ESPN app. I haven't really watched a lot of racing before, so it's been pretty interesting to me. Love how well they keep you apprised of what's going on with all the cars with detailed pit coverage reporting. Really keeps you engaged.

Interesting to see the flying lizard porsche hanging out in front of GT as long as it has. Wonder if it can keep it up.
 
S

Spaceman Spiff

Member
2600 said:
Interesting to see the flying lizard porsche hanging out in front of GT as long as it has. Wonder if it can keep it up.
Click to expand...

The scrap it got into with the Risi Ferrari at the Corkscrew could have ended very badly for both of them.

They're still going at it. Great stuff.
 
B

blanky

Member
Spaceman Spiff said:
The scrap it got into with the Risi Ferrari at the Corkscrew could have ended very badly for both of them.

They're still going at it. Great stuff.
Click to expand...

It's amazing that with all the differences in GT, front/mid/rear engine and other things, they can still be so extremely close. All classes really, whether its a 2, 6, 12 or 24 hour race. Really amazing. It's certainly my favourite type of race.
 
S

Spaceman Spiff

Member
blanky said:
It's amazing that with all the differences in GT, front/mid/rear engine and other things, they can still be so extremely close. All classes really, whether its a 2, 6, 12 or 24 hour race. Really amazing. It's certainly my favourite type of race.
Click to expand...

Best class in the ALMS, I agree. The GT competition has been absolutely top-notch all season long. Hindhaugh summed it up best:

"What's wrong with GT? Absolutely nothing."

"What needs to change in GT? Absolutely nothing."
Click to expand...
 
2

2600

Member
blanky said:
It's amazing that with all the differences in GT, front/mid/rear engine and other things, they can still be so extremely close. All classes really, whether its a 2, 6, 12 or 24 hour race. Really amazing. It's certainly my favourite type of race.
Click to expand...

I have wondered to what degree the specific tracks favor certain cars. They don't comment on that too much, that I can recall. I guess, even if there is any "advantage", there are so many other factors at play that it's not important enough to matter on the whole.

Too bad about the muscle milk LMP problems. Would like to see that class play out closer for the final race.

Spaceman Spiff said:
The scrap it got into with the Risi Ferrari at the Corkscrew could have ended very badly for both of them.
Click to expand...

They were just excited to not see any BMWs in front of them. Got a little spunky for a bit.
 
D

drifter444

Member
From a you tube comment

"@SacTuning805 Not an FXX. The FXX isn't even road legal. This is a Ferrari Enzo with the Edo Competition mod on it, as well as custom graphics etc. I live in Calgary, where Zahir has his exotic car dealership, ZR autos."
 
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