I can only imagine what Trump might attempt to do inside the country itself if there was a war. Too many comments from him and his goons that spoke in a not nearly enough negative manner about the internment camps of WW2 and Steve Bannon in the White House things could get real ugly real fast.
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Fox News: General Keane says US needs to consider a preemptive strike on North Korea
- Thread starter XiaNaphryz
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BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
They already botched a covert mission. How about scaling that up to a war with an unhinged, nuclear weapons capable country?
Its becoming increasing clear that this desperate admininstration is moving towards a reichstag fire like scenario to bolster support.
Its becoming increasing clear that this desperate admininstration is moving towards a reichstag fire like scenario to bolster support.
jellies_two
Member
It is new
It was an option
Now it's being framed as the only option and one that doesn't need approval from china
Meantime tillerson the mute has said he isn't talking.
That's radically different. If you are NK you aren't gonna go "oh well guess we better disarm" you are gonna go "oh shit we better hide some capability in one of 29 mountain tunnels we have secretly dug" (or in a random bunker in a random city). And you are going to push harder on options for a surprise strike to South Korean military bases.
I think it depends on what you consider "imminent". I don't know the definitions, but I take it it could be whatever the administration says it is.
Is testing an ICBM proof of an imminent attack? On what basis do they determine this?
2Smashed4U
Banned
"Not ruling out" =/= the only option
mmazurkiewicz
Member
US will once again be the one to drop the first bomb...
Kuro Madoushi
Unconfirmed Member
You're absolutely right that the best way to deal with North Korea has ALWAYS been through China. The only reason NK still exists is that an invasion that close would be deemed an invasion of China itself.
At the end of the day, China doesn't trust any other country to not invade it when there are still fresh wounds and memories of both Japan and other Western powers taking advantage of the country. Should China have anything to fear from the States? I mean, it's not as if America ever started an aggressive war against another country for no reason...🙄
whyamihere
Banned
Good thing we didn't elect that warmonger Killary Klinton.
littleworm
Member
I feel like many people are overestimating the amount of control China can actually exert over North Korea.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Not yet but the big marker is when they drop a missile a few hundred miles off of California. That happens and game changes because they can threaten America directly.
Hour is coming that something has to be done to keep them from reaching that mark. I don't trust Trump to act with the deft touch and foresight needed to handle that.
No, the statement is perfectly sensible.
But. Somehow, i'd imagine China would step in if the NK were serious (ie not just rhetoric) about an attack to the US.
The reason is simple: US retaliation could draw China in a war in any case in some for, and if China were to take over NK, they might be able to keep NK as a strategic buffer in some form, which is the reason for current status quo. At least by acting preemptively they'd have better chance at that than after the US is there.
Ultimately, i don't think NK will really ever attack with nukes, for the current regime will lose its power in the aftermath no matter what (China takeover, US takeover, nuclear obliteration).
EDIT Actually, this is too optimistic. Depending on the situation in NK, they might just decide to go out in blaze of nuclear fire.
The Last One
Member
Now that's VR.
One presumes military or political activity indicating a launch will occur shortly, before it occurs. But that's the problem. The timeframes are minuscule. Both sides' plans depend on going first (US preemptive strike, NK strike on US and SK bases and ports), so the threshold for war is greatly lowered, and you may have only a few minutes to decide. The chance for miscalculation is high.
Notice they didn't say anything in the article about the negotiating table being an option. After Bush killed the Agreed Framework in 2002 and then spent a bunch of time trying to get it back, this option has not been attempted, and certainly Trump will not. It's the only option to prevent catastrophe, so we are basically heading into inevitable war, whether touched off accidentally or otherwise.
SolarPowered
Member
Pretty much
In ten years we're going to be fucked when they've got dozens of missiles instead of just one or two.
Autoignition
Member
#TheEarthIsOverParty
We had a good run, folks.
We had a good run, folks.
Seattle, more likely. California is a pretty distant target. The big splash would be a missile drop off the coast of Seattle or Vancouver as a show of range.
Geno Breaker
Banned
Lol this is just going to fuel North Korean propaganda.
jellies_two
Member
The language of such things is picked over for very subtle changes of position.
This recent language had moved 100mph towards hostilities.
If they have an actual plan like they have a senior defector that knows for sure where the nuclear part of the NK capabilities are, amd they secretly know china isn't gonna flip out, and all this is 99% certain and there are no other solutions then do it, don't talk about it.
But they're effectively campaign tweeting. They are inept. There hasn't been any high level defection recently in the news and the first Chinese meeting is just getting off the ground. Pardon me if I conclude they have no idea what they are doing and as insular and distrusting as the White House is right now it doesn't matter what experts are saying because trump doesn't listen to anyone but toadies.
So it may really be that big decisions are going to get made by a few people and put to a vote with trump and his toadies pushing hard for a military show, entirely for the benefit of his own skin..
I think you're right. Koreans destroying us at Starcraft 2 isn't enough to galvanize people to support this war.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Technically a continuation, war never formally ended.
China's best play is a coup. They really don't want the masses of hungry, uneducated North Koreans under their care. Neither does SK. Which is why the assassination earlier this year is alarming.
Autoignition
Member
They're fucking idiots who don't realize that in order to get a W-type bump from war you need a unifying action like an attack on US soil first. Revenge is the ultimate unifier.
They're literally too stupid to burn down the Reichstag. Not that I'm rooting for that; I'm just pointing out the very very fatal flaw in their plan, here.
Like, I just...
No words.
Thelonelykoopa
Member
Read this as General Keanu and was wondering why he would need strike North Korea when all he would need is a Pencil. Oh as well as when did Keanu Reeves become a general.
RustyNails
Member
Trump's domestic agenda has been a disaster: failwhale healthcare, blocked Muslim ban, and soon to be a failure on tax reform. He's looking to distract with sabre rattling with NK.
Considering how he's a massive hypocrite in nearly everything he does, I guarantee he'll try to start a draft. Not succeed, but try.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
great I just watched Dr Strangelove today! Surely assuages my anxiety
NYCmetsfan
Banned
North Korea isn't going to de nuclearize absent a war. They have nukes. We can't change that.
Let's prevent ICBMs.
Let's prevent ICBMs.
Head of Vengarl
Banned
I would be shitting myself if I lived in S.K. right now. Unless the military managed to knock N.K. out with the opening strike, wouldn't they immediately shell Seoul into rubble as soon as a war broke out?
Not to mention N.K. is backed by China, who is a thermonuclear power.
Not to mention N.K. is backed by China, who is a thermonuclear power.
jellies_two
Member
I heard some expert saying pfft what's 20m North Korean refugees flooding north that's China's birth rate in one year just put one in every village. Couldn't believe it because USA agonizes and cuts refugee intakes to 50,000 or less and they says china - which is always worried about the people getting pissed and overthrowing the single ruling party - can easily absorb a flood of people who don't speak Chinese, appearing in their southern province.
If trump wants to blow up the state he has to explain to his base that he will take 3m pissed off poverty stricken North Koreans and look after them all.
USA hasn't the money to pay for the destruction they can cause with their military.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
No
They're are civil defenses and that would obviously be SK number one priority to take out. It's very hard to level a city. And on defense NK would be much more concerned with taking out military assests than indiscriminately bombing.
They're a reason the US and SK do war games every year.
Lots of damage, yes. End of Seoul? Not unless NK nukes it
And China would never back NK with their nuclear power unless the Chinese mainland was threatened. That's part of the reason behind deterrence, it limits actions.
gutter_trash
Banned
Weapons of Mass Distraction
Yeah, it's not like the world's two largest population centers are well within striking distance of NK. Surely nothing could go wrong with this.
And South Korean leadership is really well positioned and steady right now.
sunshine and gasoline
Banned
Doubtful but I can easily see Trump pissing China off enough to take some actions against us.
jellies_two
Member
China has a treaty it says they must support NK if it is attached unprovoked
If china tears up that treaty it damages their ability to extend their power as they very much want. They won't be able to just sit and watch. Their own people will demand they get involved somehow, they have an intense nationalism and are right on the cusp of thinking their century has come. Cow towing at this critical stage won't be acceptable,
NK needs to deserve an attack before china can tear up its treaty. Weapon development isn't sufficient.
There's no way in hell he'd win re-election if he tried that, failure or not.
Host Samurai
Member
Now is the worst time for the US to go into war. A country divided with a president being under investigation. This might be one deflection tactic that can potentially start a real dictatorship once the war is over.
Pretty much. I have to imagine support would tank. The us loses regardless of the outcome
idiots.
its already understood that a preemptive strike against NK is on the table if necessary. You don't need to go on television and announce it. It only gives them an excuse to act up, or try to seriously act out. Are they trying to cause some pretext for some wag the dog type bs that won't work?
its already understood that a preemptive strike against NK is on the table if necessary. You don't need to go on television and announce it. It only gives them an excuse to act up, or try to seriously act out. Are they trying to cause some pretext for some wag the dog type bs that won't work?
jellies_two
Member
There is also a possibility or at least was last time I checked, that the new South Korean leadership (president) wants to reduce the power of america. For instance why not let china take over the military side. That would box North Korea in.
So if this is a near term possibility then the orange asshole may actually be racing to get something done before he is told he had to remove assets from the region.
You are making the assumption that he is an intelligent man who thinks his actions through.
Coriolanus
Banned
Given that The Don has already explicitly said that he's perfectly fine with looting countries that the US invades, wouldn't surprise me if all this NK thing is just a pretext to invade and steal their minerals
Of course some of his friends with mining companies would get the deals, haliburton-style.
Of course some of his friends with mining companies would get the deals, haliburton-style.
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