Why do you think conservatives have been trying to rehabilitate MacArthur and destroy Truman's global consensus for the last 60 years? Check out the "relief of General MacArthur" Wikipedia page, which is full of apologia and featured insight from none other than Samuel "Clash of Civilizations" Huntington.
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Fox News: General Keane says US needs to consider a preemptive strike on North Korea
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Why do you think conservatives have been trying to rehabilitate MacArthur and destroy Truman's global consensus for the last 60 years? Check out the "relief of General MacArthur" Wikipedia page, which is full of apologia and featured insight from none other than Samuel "Clash of Civilizations" Huntington.
Honestly I think it would be a good thing if they just stepped in and said we got this and stomped it out instantly like a bug.
Edit, but in a subtle way... like we got this, for get about it....
For anyone that is interested in the question, there's this video made from a book of Peter Navarro (Trump's director of the White House National Trade Council).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odiv79hZhB4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odiv79hZhB4
7DollarHagane
Banned
This is just a "remember, kids" to North Korea. Their rhetoric has been escalating over the decades and every administration has tried to do something a out it, but someday it's going to need to be dealt with, and hopefully that's with north Korea finding itself without friends and being squashed utterly.
At some point the us can't be blamed for north Korea holding South Korea hostage if NK has legitimate threats or actions against us. That's on NK and China if they don't work with us against them.
Fulminator
Member
For all of you saying this will fuck things up, what do you want the US to do in this situation? Of course if there is no imminent threat,a move like this would be foolish, but if NK was seriously poised to launch an ICBM why should we not launch a preemptive strike?
Of course it won't be pretty , but what nation would just take that?
Of course it won't be pretty , but what nation would just take that?
hydragonwarrior
Member
It's almost certain that SK will not survive if any attack is made on NK. Fuck ALL of you idiots who decided to either not vote at all or voted for Trump. Seriously.
And yes, it's because of Trump and his admin's completely reactionary comments about NK that it's moving all of this bullshit forward!
And yes, it's because of Trump and his admin's completely reactionary comments about NK that it's moving all of this bullshit forward!
7DollarHagane
Banned
Nobody in this administration wants a war with nk any more than the people in Obama's admin wanted it.
They've just been passed the torch of diplomatic finger wagging and looking real sternly at North Korea for another 4 years.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
We would have too. I think the consensus has always been "they can't be that crazy.... right". The flip side is our side is now crazy enough to think "fuck you, NK we're Americuh"
Buba Big Guns
Banned
lol...why not spend resources on getting the missile defence up to 99% accuracy instead of waging what will turn out to be a nuclear war.
Coriolanus
Banned
This makes no sense whatsoever. Who's blaming the US for NK holding SK hostage nowadays?
What they US will be blamed for, and with good reason, is for trying to intervene in what has been (in spite of everything) a rational actor for more than five decades. Because the consequences of that intervention, unless it is pulled off absolutely perfectly, will be absolutely horrendous. To that one adds that the countries in the region have very little to nothing to gain from an intervention, and fuckloads to lose.
Yall can think of going solo on shit like this when you fix your track record of fucking up nearly all your interventions in recent history.
Why would NK ever do that? They know perfectly well that any real act of aggression would mean their end. Its how MAD works.
Either way, end of the day the contry most likely to be damaged by NK is SK, and thus such decisions should be left to it.
Well....technically that war never ended, did it? If hostilities broke out again, it'd be part 2 of that same war.
Imperfected
Member
The Chinese view installing a missile defense that can actually protect South Korea and Japan in a reasonable fashion as an act of war, in and of itself.
brandonh83
Banned
Gosh
It's almost like he was exercising patience, maturity, intellect and a number of other things in regards to this.
Given that Republicans couldn't even repeal the ACA (aka number one hated republican policy), I don't see how an authorization of force could ever possible pass the house and senate. Shit, the only reason we were able to drum up the support to enter Iraq was the fact we were still reeling from 9/11.
Maybe we could engage NK enough to have them attack SK, then authorize force in order to defend an ally. Or maybe we don't have to because of the ongoing conflict between NK and SK? I don't know.
Maybe we could engage NK enough to have them attack SK, then authorize force in order to defend an ally. Or maybe we don't have to because of the ongoing conflict between NK and SK? I don't know.
spiderman123
Member
I'm pretty sure they been talking about a preemptive strike way before Trump administration. My concern is China.
jellies_two
Member
Thats a simplification. If the US builds a missile defense umbrella it means radar that will cover part of China and there is no way to prove it isn't linked into the US defense network.
Would america allow China to install a high powered far seeing radar system in Mexico? that can see stuff moving in Texas? no way.
I don't think China objects to SK being defended -it just doesn't want the US to use South Korea as a giant aircraft carrier. That's why it would be much better for the region if South Korea decided to swap US protection for Chinese. As much as that hastens the end of US geo-political power, it seems to be the only way out of this.
Imperfected
Member
I assume all of this is predicated first on some pretty serious cassus beli being manufactured, at some point. At a minimum, North Korea would have to step up to the next level of provocation while simultaneously showing evidence of hitting their ICBM development goals, and even then it seems unlikely, given that he'd be trying to secure funding for a war while also blowing an epic amount of fraud and waste spending on his stupid wall and existing plans for military spending expansion.
Basically, he'd have to pull a few trillion dollars straight out of his ass. Particularly given how thin NATO support would be considering his recent behavior.
Ain't ever gonna happen, even if we spent crazy resources
Electric Eye
Banned
China is not going to aid NK because right now they are in better standing in the world than the US with Trump. They would stay out the way with the occasional hands off proxy campaigns and pretty much have their dream come true of the US eroding even more of it world standing pretty much letting us slit our own necks. More blood and gold with a fight that will destroy lives, countries and their economies. Meanwhile China and Russia sit back and grow with power without ever lifting a finger. If its a wag the dog Trump wants he is barking up the wrong tree in NK.
Onlinehero
Member
I don't believe the Sony Defence Force can do much against a nuclear attack, but I may be wrong.
No fear. The Ninten-jas will make short work of them... Iwata saw this coming and already had the code ready for it
don't I wish 
Well, no. This actually is a very legit concern. Moreso the Depleted than the weak part. Then again 15 years of constant warfare will tire just about any military out to some degree.
Airmen, Sailors and Marines are being hurt or outright dying in record numbers on simply training missions because maintenance has fallen short for these platforms.
The Navy has just grounded it's T-45 trainer fleet because the instructor pilots literally refuse to fly them.
Maintenance falls short on these platforms because of a lack of skilled enlisted, as the more experienced enlisted leave the force because they aren't going to deal with rank fuck-fuck games from their superiors.
Sub gaps, Cruiser gaps as shipyard burden grows. These are very real issues.
The problem on the Republican side is that they want to relive the glory WW2 days of having the biggest physical dick while not understanding how they're almost single handedly responsible for the Military having budget issues in the first place.
They insist on simply throwing more money at the problem while not realizing that 15 years of war and mission creep have and continue to eat more money away from the modernization they want more than any welfare or "Entitlements" ever will. The trillions of dollars spent since then could've easily paid for all they wanted and even some civilian infrastructure on the side. Instead however now they have to justify everything with more spending increases in a stupidly circular spending cycle. Give more money ---> Mission Creep the Military ---> Military has no money because Creep now ---> Give more money.
That's not to say that the Military itself is entirely innocent. Especially in Afghanistan, the amount of Military theft of aid money is horrendous.
LegendofJoe
Member
China is the superpower of the 21st century. There is no better way to demonstrate their power to the rest of the world than taking care of the NK problem.
UnluckyKate
Member
Going for the Commander in Chief popularity points so early, eh Donie ?
Joel Was Right
Member
old manatee
Banned
Republicans are in charge for less than a year so of course we are talking about preemptive war.
DrROBschiz
Member
on the flipside the people of North Korea are locked into this terrible reality
I wish there was a better way to liberate and save as many of them as possible
As people said already in this thread war is going to kill so many people including those in South Korea
But a fight might be inevitable especially if Kim makes good on his threats someday
I wish there was a better way to liberate and save as many of them as possible
As people said already in this thread war is going to kill so many people including those in South Korea
But a fight might be inevitable especially if Kim makes good on his threats someday
Nobody reads anything
ExtremePopcorn
Member
It's almost as if a man who sits on the board of General Dynamics and consults for Blackwater might have some interest in increased military spending and conflict.
There is something that is always hard for me to figure. When a country is ruled by a dictator, is it better to:
_wait for people in the country to revolt?
_Get rid of the dictator through a military intervention?
_Fund rebels group inside the country?
I mean, if you do nothing people suffer, if you do something people die.
I am aware that if US acted, it would not be a decision based on selfless feelings. But yet, i can't help but wonder what is worse.
If you declare war you may be guilty in a way, causing deaths. But if you do not act, you may be guilty by omission, for not dooing anything.
_wait for people in the country to revolt?
_Get rid of the dictator through a military intervention?
_Fund rebels group inside the country?
I mean, if you do nothing people suffer, if you do something people die.
I am aware that if US acted, it would not be a decision based on selfless feelings. But yet, i can't help but wonder what is worse.
If you declare war you may be guilty in a way, causing deaths. But if you do not act, you may be guilty by omission, for not dooing anything.
DrROBschiz
Member
I know!
when it comes to taking down dictatorships its incredibly difficult
The interventions by the US and UN over the past 50years are all the proof you need
I think what we need is our own societies to reach the point where basic human needs can be fulfilled so easily that a populance can focus less on survival and combatting blight and more time on policy
Try running and rebuilding a war torn but liberated nation when sharks are in the water eyeballing your resources after a war
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
This might be a naive question, but is there a decent write up on the scenario that lead to NK being able to build nuclear weapons in the first place?
Imperfected
Member
StrongArmSteady
Member
This is a great video, will check out the others in the series
Thanks!
Sidewinder
Member
Trump has so many options open:
Syria: "crossed many lines...changed my opinion about Asshat" (lol, as if he were an angel before Trump got to the White House...).
North Korea: All those rocket tests, need to attack them first to protect the USA
Iran: worst deal ever, financing terrorists, Israel would be glad...
With the way he was talking about winning again, blowing up the military budget even more and his abysmal ratings, it's almost a given that he'll want to stir up shit. Thought it would be later in his presidency, but who knows.
LegendofJoe
Member
The best option is to make it clear that an attack on the US via North Korea would be considered the same as if China itself attacked us. They need to deal with this problem, not the United States.
Kill Your Masters
Member
What military action has actually worked in the past two decades, where the west felt country x needed a regime change? The middle east should be a lesson that you just can't bomb away the worlds problems.
Horrible suggestion. You're basically handing North Korea the power to end the world. North Korea isn't a Chinese puppet or even much of a proxy, they're a lesser evil that's constantly a thorn in China's side almost as much as they're one in the side of the US. China can influence North Korea, true, but only to a degree. They've already expressed their opposition to North Korea's nuclear tests without any real impact.
The reason they haven't "dealt" with the problem is the same reason as for why the us hasn't either - as long as the current regime stands, it can't really be done without massive loss of life and without a major humanitarian disaster on China's doorstep.
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