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[Oberon]

So lets all adopt extremist ideology . the kind of radicalization that allows us to kidnap some females of the opposite sex, force them to convert , or maybe sell them into sexual slavery using forced contraception.

how about kidnapping some school children from school . converting and distributing them out like candy to our subordinates.

that makes perfect sense

middle ground missing everywhere huh?

I am not sure what your point is. "They're doing bad things , so it's ok that we're doing less bad things"?
Don't you think that's what the terrorist would want? This will only make harmless muslims feel unwelcome and discriminated.

 

[gutter_trash]

I have always had qualms with the domestic reaction of the United States to terrorism, but France's reaction is worse on almost every level.

nope, France was just to enacting their State of Emergency

their borders with Belgium and Germany are not secure

Belgium is a failure at combating terrorism

France is in the right to protect themselves

 

[Valinor]

That's not what megamelon is saying. Stop with the hyperbole.

If you're going to break someone's teeth in make sure it's the right person, this fuck up is amplified by the fact that the wrong person is disabled as well

"I'm not saying it's justified, you're completely right about that. But the fact of the matter is that this stuff will happen. Especially for youngsters who are particularly prone to radicalisation. Things like this only give more fuel to radicalise people."

this was megamelons comment to me prior. how is this not justifying radicalization due to raids and house arrest. especially actions that occured after the massacre

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

"they wouldn't be under house arrest if they hadn't done something wrong" and other bullshit like that.

All I can say is fucking hell.

 

[MegaMelon]

So lets all adopt extremist ideology . the kind of radicalization that allows us to kidnap some females of the opposite sex, force them to convert , or maybe sell them into sexual slavery using forced contraception.

how about kidnapping some school children from school . converting and distributing them out like candy to our subordinates.

that makes perfect sense

Where have I ever said that? Stop putting words in my mouth. I even commented above that I'm not inherently against raids and investigations into potential terrorists.

All I've been saying is to apply a bit of sense in how this whole thing is carried out. To start with, why not identify who you're talking with before smashing their teeth. One could also treat this as an investigation rather than a hunt for confirmed terrorists.

"I'm not saying it's justified, you're completely right about that. But the fact of the matter is that this stuff will happen. Especially for youngsters who are particularly prone to radicalisation. Things like this only give more fuel to radicalise people."

this was megamelons comment to me prior. how is this not justifying radicalization due to raids and house arrest. especially actions that occured after the massacre

Good grief man. I literally said in the opening 5 words that it's NOT justified. But whether we like it or not that doesn't stop the fact that this will aid in radicalisation attempts. Am I saying no raids, no investigations nothing? No. I'm saying you need to think out your plan to combat terrorism rather than (seemingly) chucking police at people who you 'think' could be related to terrorists.
Perhaps taking the time to identify why these people are becoming radicalised to begin with would be better then alienating a large group of people who are already feeling the stress of recent events.

Your hardline approach that you're doesn't seem to be very good considering there are a whopping 4 terrorism related investigations so far. You wanna save lives? Then you invest resources into methods that help. This only really appeases to people who have a gripe with Islam/foreigners to begin with.

my point is to show there is no excuse for following extremist ideology irrespective of raids and house arrests. especially one that occurred as a reaction to 120 odd deaths. these raids and house arrest are there to primarily route out dangerous ideology from moderates. my point also is that if you resort to that sort of ideology than good riddance to you as well.
ation .

You are aware that I agree with you on the fact that it isn't a justification?

 

[SlimySnake]

You are aware there is a middle ground between doing nothing and breaking disabled people's teeth right?

I am. But when you are a cop breaking into a house you have told is a terrorist safe haven you arent going to be all nice and bring them flowers.

Sometimes shit gets out of hands and people get hurt. It sucks and I would personally hate to have my own house invaded just because im muslim, but if it meant stopping the San Bernadino shootings or the Paris shootings I would be ok with it. Of course, if they broke my teeth i would sue the government and pretty sure get a nice check out of it.

 

[Valinor]

I am not sure what your point is. "They're doing bad things , so it's ok that we're doing less bad things"?
Don't you think that's what the terrorist would want? This will only make harmless muslims feel unwelcome and discriminated.

my point is to show there is no excuse for following extremist ideology irrespective of raids and house arrests. especially one that occurred as a reaction to 120 odd deaths. these raids and house arrest are there to primarily route out dangerous ideology from moderates. my point also is that if you resort to that sort of ideology than good riddance to you as well.
ation .

 

[Mr. Giggles]

"I'm not saying it's justified, you're completely right about that. But the fact of the matter is that this stuff will happen. Especially for youngsters who are particularly prone to radicalisation. Things like this only give more fuel to radicalise people."

this was megamelons comment to me prior. how is this not justifying radicalization due to raids and house arrest. especially actions that occured after the massacre

his point wasn't that radicalization was justified, rather that poor execution of raiding and profiling is a catalyst to radicalization.

No one is justifying radicals.

 

[Des0lar]

Once again, NeoGAF proves that while it is very liberal on almost all things, but once Muslims are mentioned many members turn into arch-conservatives or straight up fascist.

Wtf? Painting with a broad brush today are we?

 

[MegaMelon]

I am. But when you are a cop breaking into a house you have told is a terrorist safe haven you arent going to be all nice and bring them flowers.

This is precisely the problem. Out of all those raids that have been carried out, how many have resulted in the discovery of terrorist safe havens?

Sometimes shit gets out of hands and people get hurt. It sucks and I would personally hate to have my own house invaded just because im muslim, but if it meant stopping the San Bernadino shootings or the Paris shootings I would be ok with it. Of course, if they broke my teeth i would sue the government and pretty sure get a nice check out of it.

I'm not entirely sure this will stop them. I pray to God we won't have any more, but my entire point is the way you carry out this operation can change it's effect completely.

 

[Valinor]

Perhaps taking the time to identify why these people are becoming radicalised to begin with would be better then alienating a large group of people who are already feeling the stress of recent events.

do i think there are ways they could have taken to not alienate people . maybe be bit more sensitive with violence etc possibly.

but lets make it clear . identify extremist ideology and creating an intolerable environment for it is paramount and way more important that the notion of not alienating people. if people use this as an excuse to even remotely justify radicalization, then let them make those choices, screw up their current lives. its important to make that clear. No excuses for radicalization .

 

[Valinor]

the discovery of terrorist safe havens?

how would the public even get to know this information .why would they even relase this. all this is most likely state secret information . how will you even asses this information if you dont' have some level of clearance.

you judging the information the french recovered from the raids based on information from i think qatar based newspaper. do you realize the absurdity of this ?

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

I am. But when you are a cop breaking into a house you have told is a terrorist safe haven you arent going to be all nice and bring them flowers.

Sometimes shit gets out of hands and people get hurt. It sucks and I would personally hate to have my own house invaded just because im muslim, but if it meant stopping the San Bernadino shootings or the Paris shootings I would be ok with it. Of course, if they broke my teeth i would sue the government and pretty sure get a nice check out of it.

Is is too much to expect a cop, when told a house is a terrorist safe haven, to do a bit of actual police work before breaking down the door and beating the shit out of disabled people?

my point is to show there is no excuse for following extremist ideology irrespective of raids and house arrests. especially one that occurred as a reaction to 120 odd deaths. these raids and house arrest are there to primarily route out dangerous ideology from moderates. my point also is that if you resort to that sort of ideology than good riddance to you as well.
ation .

So we're going to to root out extremism by adopting extremist measures and ideology of our own, tossing the rule of law to the side to oppress and marginalise whichever minority is the enemy du jour without catching terrorists or making anyone any safer?

Sounds like a fantastic plan.

 

[Valinor]

his point wasn't that radicalization was justified, rather that poor execution of raiding and profiling is a catalyst to radicalization.

No one is justifying radicals.

again no denying its not a catalyst. but my point was to point out that if people adopt radicalization due to these poor execution of raiding and profiling. then good ridance to them. where are we lost?

 

[gutter_trash]

Schengen open borders poses a massive puzzle to EU countries want openness, travel, trade

then you have morons in Beligum who can't even coordinate an arrest because it was too late at night to knock on a door

with Belgium incompetence and open borders on all sides. France did not have much of a choice to lock things down after the attacks

 

[Yamauchi]

Good job, France. I support this move.

 

[Mr Waluigi]

People are forgetting two major things: fear, and tiredness.

France has been hit with not one terrorist attack event, but two, with the same radical religious/political revendications. Your average citizen might not care much anymore because the latest attack happened months ago, but police forces are very paranoid for rightful reasons. What if they become more laid back and next thing we know is that that one apartment they didn't raid was housing terrorists planning an attack?

And there's tiredness too. The state of emergency has been going on for a while now. Officers are tired of being constantly vigilant when only 4 people were suspicious enough to be arrested among the large amount of raids and such that were done so far. The mix of tiredness, frustration and fear (all three are very much justified too) can make some messy situations.

I hope the state of emergency goes down in not too long, muslims and immigrants in France seriously need a break. But at the same time France is still a large and easy target for a third round of attacks...

lol @ people saying it's even worse than what American police does though.

 

[Walpurgis]

but lets make it clear . identify extremist ideology and creating an intolerable environment for it is paramount and way more important that the notion of not alienating people. if people use this as an excuse to even remotely justify radicalization, then let them make those choices, screw up their current lives. its important to make that clear. No excuses for radicalization .

Listen, no one here is supporting radicalisation. We're acknowledging reality here. It will happen and these raids and abuses will make it even worse. Instead of plugging our ears and pretending it won't happen, we should do our best to mitigate it.

how would the public even get to know this information .why would they even relase this. all this is most likely state secret information . how will you even asses this information if you dont' have some level of clearance.

you judging the information the french recovered from the raids based on information from i think qatar based newspaper. do you realize the absurdity of this ?

To quell these protests and gain more political support for the state of emergency. If they had results worth trumpeting about, believe me, they would.

As for the source, Al Jazeera is a very reputable source. There's really no reason to think that they are making this up because they are based in or owned by Qatar. If this were an article about Qatar slaves and the World Cup, then maybe your concerns would have merit.

Is is too much to expect a cop, when told a house is a terrorist safe haven, to do a bit of actual police work before breaking down the door and beating the shit out of disabled people?

Especially since those cops probably went through hundreds of houses with no results and are likely choosing their houses based on flimsy evidence and connections.

again no denying its not a catalyst. but my point was to point out that if people adopt radicalization due to these poor execution of raiding and profiling. then good ridance to them. where are we lost?

130 more people in the cafes and streets of Paris.

Schengen open borders poses a massive puzzle to EU countries want openness, travel, trade

then you have morons in Beligum who can't even coordinate an arrest because it was too late at night to knock on a door

with Belgium incompetence and open borders on all sides. France did not have much of a choice to lock things down after the attacks

Belgium was an embarrassment. I think the resources that they are wasting on these fruitless raids would be better spent dealing with that shit show.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

again no denying its not a catalyst. but my point was to point out that if people adopt radicalization due to these poor execution of raiding and profiling. then good ridance to them. where are we lost?

Hmmmmm ok quick question:

Have you ever experienced racial or ethnic profiling? If you have, think about how you felt each time it happened considering of course you are innocent and unconnected to the bad people in your community.

It's not just the raids that push people further to radicalization, it's the continued profiling and segregation by the populace... I can tell you as a Muslim person who is half black and half Arab how much it hurts when the people in your daily life do this, almost missing flights because of prolonged checks, being shut down by women because my name is too "sandy"..... Incorrectly being beaten up by the authorities because of name and appearance could be the straw that breaks lot of backs

To you its this "just this one raid" to the innocents being incorrectly targeted this is a big bullet point in a long list of shit they deal with and could potentially be a big catalyst to mixing with the wrong crowd

 

[MegaMelon]

again no denying its not a catalyst. but my point was to point out that if people adopt radicalization due to these poor execution of raiding and profiling. then good ridance to them. where are we lost?

Your understanding is too binary. It's not that all these people harbor these views inherently and these raids and whatnot are what triggers them to become expressed. Those same people with education and awareness can go on to become activists for peace and standing against terrorism.

Besides, what is the next step in your master plan after these people leave? They'll just forget about the past and live a new life somewhere else? No. Some of these people will join terrorist organisations and want revenge. They'll develop a hatred of the very country they loved and potentially contribute to further violence and misery.

how would the public even get to know this information .why would they even relase this. all this is most likely state secret information . how will you even asses this information if you dont' have some level of clearance.

you judging the information the french recovered from the raids based on information from i think qatar based newspaper. do you realize the absurdity of this ?

..you seriously think we wouldn't have heard if they'd discovered terrorist safe havens? They would be VEHEMENTLY broadcasting such a victory to aid the current situation.

 

[Walpurgis]

People are forgetting two major things: fear, and tiredness.

France has been hit with not one terrorist attack event, but two, with the same radical religious/political revendications. Your average citizen might not care much anymore because the latest attack happened months ago, but police forces are very paranoid for rightful reasons. What if they become more laid back and next thing we know is that that one apartment they didn't raid was housing terrorists planning an attack?

And there's tiredness too. The state of emergency has been going on for a while now. Officers are tired of being constantly vigilant when only 4 people were suspicious enough to be arrested among the large amount of raids and such that were done so far. The mix of tiredness, frustration and fear (all three are very much justified too) can make some messy situations.

I hope the state of emergency goes down in not too long, muslims and immigrants in France seriously need a break. But at the same time France is still a large and easy target for a third round of attacks...

lol @ people saying it's even worse than what American police does though.

I can understand the fear and I empathise with it. I can't imagine living in Paris today, I would be afraid to leave my house, tbh. I also get why they are doing this but I think it is wrong.

More importantly than this being wrong, it is also ineffective and actually counterproductive. 4 terrorism investigations is not realistic to me. With millions of people living in France, there should be more than that (at least I would think). They would have been better off with NSA style surveillance, imo. If they're going to infringe on people's human rights, at least make it so that they don't notice.

French Muslims were already alienated before all of this but this has kicked the alienation into overdrive. If the French government doesn't care about their feelings, maybe they will care about the possibility of pushing people to radicalisation. They need a more lowkey method. Right now, they are making people hate France.

 

[Walpurgis]

Besides, what is the next step in your master plan after these people leave? They'll just forget about the past and live a new life somewhere else? No. Some of these people will join terrorist organisations and want revenge. They'll develop a hatred of the very country they loved and potentially contribute to further violence and misery.

To add to this, EU expats are highly valued in ISIS for their knowledge of the country and the systems. Chasing Muslims out of France will not solve the problem.

 

[Valinor]

As for the source, Al Jazeera is a very reputable source. There's really no reason to think that they are making this up because they are based in or owned by Qatar. If this were an article about Qatar slaves and the World Cup, then maybe your concerns would have merit.
.

my point is i doubt a newspaper company in qatar would have access to the information recovered during raids. not that they have a bias and are making up stuff.

secondly i doubt france or anyother european country for that matter is in a state of political state where they have to justify actions of raids and paper against eliminating extremist ideology . the recent events have cemented this. in fact i am willing to bet these actions actually help hollande's standing rather than be a detrmient to it. is there even a political party of siginificant strength that is far left from them arguing for negation of these raids and actions. in fact i think the political party with the next best significant power that is more right than hollande would want more actions. do you honestly think that 1300 mean anything significant in terms of political attitude change in the electorate. be honest

 

[Mass_Pincup]

my point is i doubt a newspaper company in qatar would have access to the information recovered during raids. not that they have a bias and are making up stuff.

secondly i doubt france or anyother european country for that matter is in a state of political state where they have to justify actions of raids and paper against eliminating extremist ideology . the recent events have cemented this. in fact i am willing to bet these actions actually help hollande's standing rather than be a detrmient to it. is there even a political party of siginificant strength that is far left from them arguing for negation of these raids and actions. in fact i think the political party with the next best significant power that is more right than hollande would want more actions. do you honestly think that 1300 mean anything significant in terms of political attitude change in the electorate. be honest

They absolutely have to justify the raids and what happens in them, not to foreign countries but to the citizens. Being accountable in this situation is really important, a lot of people fear that the state of emergency has been abused. They did 3 397 search which lead to only 5 case brought to justice don't you think there's a problem with the current method?

 

[The Wall]

Wait, what are you talking about?

Long... story.

 

[Walpurgis]

my point is i doubt a newspaper company in qatar would have access to the information recovered during raids. not that they have a bias and are making up stuff.

secondly i doubt france or anyother european country for that matter is in a state of political state where they have to justify actions of raids and paper against eliminating extremist ideology . the recent events have cemented this. in fact i am willing to bet these actions actually help hollande's standing rather than be a detrmient to it. is there even a political party of siginificant strength that is far left from them arguing for negation of these raids and actions. in fact i think the political party with the next best significant power that is more right than hollande would want more actions. do you honestly think that 1300 mean anything significant in terms of political attitude change in the electorate. be honest

No. I don't think the overall electorate gives a shit. Electorates can be wrong though. It's happened plenty of times before but yeah, yeah, democracy. I get it. They do have international laws that bind them though. Assuming they don't care about that, I would think that they would care about more radicalisation.

 

[Valinor]

Besides, what is the next step in your master plan after these people leave? They'll just forget about the past and live a new life somewhere else? No. Some of these people will join terrorist organisations and want revenge. They'll develop a hatred of the very country they loved and potentially contribute to further violence and misery.



..you seriously think we wouldn't have heard if they'd discovered terrorist safe havens? They would be VEHEMENTLY broadcasting such a victory to aid the current situation.

They wouldn't broadcast information that they think they could use to get root players and cells.

again if people develop hatred for legitimate raids. especially if they can't understand the need to root out extremist ideology . let them develop hatred .let them ruin their lives by joining ideologies and sects. my point is rooting out extremist ideology is more important the future of these people. do you seriously think these people would have a better future if they chose to espouse this sort of ideology through feelings of revenge. the important thing is to create an inhospitable environment and intolerance for any form of that kind of thought. not to save those people

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

again no denying its not a catalyst. but my point was to point out that if people adopt radicalization due to these poor execution of raiding and profiling. then good ridance to them. where are we lost?

What is this? I can't even...

 

[Valinor]

No. I don't think the overall electorate gives a shit. Electorates can be wrong though. It's happened plenty of times before but yeah, yeah, democracy. I get it. They do have international laws that bind them though. Assuming they don't care about that, I would think that they would care about more radicalisation.

the electorates are the country. its not about your values or international laws. didn't we just see eu change migration law up to the point where human rights amnesty groups protested. again i dont care about the people who would be exposed to potential radicalization . NO EXCUSE for radicalization. i would hazard a guess that many people share my sentiments.

honestly it wasn't even overall electorate. a significant (numerical )electorate that would actually want what you espouse is what i was triying to say

 

[Valinor]

What is this? I can't even...

raids could cause moderates to radicalize. moderates who radicalize and adopt extremist ideology have no need to be a part of france.

extremist ideology removal and inshopitablity /intolerance to its ideology >than saving moderates who are malleable to radicalizations.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

the electorates are the country. its not about your values or international laws. didn't we just see eu change migration law up to the point where human rights amnesty groups protested. again i dont care about the people who would be exposed to potential radicalization. NO EXCUSE for radicalization. i would hazard a guess that many people share my sentiments.

At least you're honest - so you don't care about innocents who might be pushed in to the hands of the exact people you are trying to fight?!

I'm sure many people do share your sentiments.

 

[Valinor]

At least you're honest - so you don't care about innocents who might be pushed in to the hands of the exact people you are trying to fight?!

I'm sure many people do share your sentiments.

again you are no longer innocent once you start adopting extremist ideology. i dont see the need for a place for them in western society. in fact i would hazard a guess that this actions would leave clear expectations that would better lead to better integration of moderate Muslims into western society.

 

[MegaMelon]

They wouldn't broadcast information that they think they could use to get root players and cells.

again if people develop hatred for legitimate raids.

Like the completely innocent disabled man who had 4 of his teeth broken?

Let's go even deeper. The second article details more horrific actions during these legitimate raids:

Those targeted said the police burst into homes, restaurants, or mosques; broke people's belongings; threw Qurans on the floor; terrified children; and placed restrictions on people's movements so severely that they lost jobs and income, or suffered physically.

But lolok legitimate raids right?

especially if they can't understand the need to root out extremist ideology

I highly doubt many of these people don't understand the need to eliminate terrorist attacks and dangerous ideologies.

let them develop hatred .let them ruin their lives by joining ideologies and sects.

Because their subsequent actions will only be limited to themselves right? It's not like there'll be any terrorist att- oh wait.

my point is rooting out extremist ideology is more important the future of these people.

Including the completely innocent people? Including the young children? The single mothers?

do you seriously think these people would have a better future if they chose to espouse this sort of ideology through feelings of revenge.

Of course not, that's illogical. But that's the thing, these people will not be thinking logically and with a level head.

the important thing is to create an inhospitable environment and intolerance for any form of that kind of thought. not to save those people

Yup this was totally justified with the what, 4/5 cases that were possibly terrorist related?

again you are no longer innocent once you start adopting extremist ideology. i dont see the need for a place for them in western society. in fact i would hazard a guess that this actions would leave clear expectations that would better lead to better integration of moderate Muslims into western society.

>treat people badly
>they integrate better

But if they aren't happy with their treatment?

>LOL NO PLACE IN MY SOCIETY GOOD RIDDANCE

 

[The Wall]

Besides, what is the next step in your master plan after these people leave? They'll just forget about the past and live a new life somewhere else? No. Some of these people will join terrorist organisations and want revenge. They'll develop a hatred of the very country they loved and potentially contribute to further violence and misery.

Bingo. If they fuck up and destroy/damage people, and do not admit to it, or do anything real to remedy and rectify their wrong in the name of "STOP 'DEM TERRORISTS", you've all but said to them "us falsely labeling and abusing you, then doing nothing about it after has left you with the perceived terrorists as being the only people on your "side" after the fact".

You're going to find very few people who have been subject to their abusive mistakes who will still hold the middle ground (it's hard, trust me. The middle ground is a thin rope, and understanding how to walk on it takes a type of balance that takes time to develop) and not be on the side of the only people who are large and organized enough against their sloppy work and attempts to sweep their collateral damage under the rug, unethically.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

raids could cause moderates to radicalize. moderates who radicalize and adopt extremist ideology have no need to be a part of france.

extremist ideology removal and inshopitablity /intolerance to its ideology >than saving moderates who are malleable to radicalizations.

I understand what you were saying. It's just complete and utter horsehit, not to mention offensive and pretty abhorrent.

"Institutional racism, socio-economic factors and racial imbalances in policing can lead poor, black people to turn to gangs and crime.

Black people who feel forced to turn to crime have no place in society.

Ergo, rather than address the factors that lead them to feel alienated, let's go round profiling, arresting and kicking the shit out of black people for no good reason. Five or six of them are bound to be doing something illegal so we'll be able to justify it in the end."

 

[Mr. Giggles]

again you are no longer innocent once you start adopting extremist ideology. i dont see the need for a place for them in western society. in fact i would hazard a guess that this actions would leave clear expectations that would better lead to integration of moderate muslims into western society.

Fair enough, but are your methods to fighting extremism working for or against the problem... Think deeply about that.

I'm a moderate Muslim, I can tell you all this says to me is stay out of France because the government will probably beat the shit out of me for having the same name as a guy on a list that they haven't bothered to check twice.

But I'm sure you don't give a damn, less brown people right?!

 

[The Adder]

And once again fascism is reduced to 'thing I don't agree with' rather then an actual political system.

A government terrorizing and harming its citizens, both phycitizensand mentally, due to associations they may or may not have based on their religious affiliation is pretty fuckjng fascist.

again you are no longer innocent once you start adopting extremist ideology. i dont see the need for a place for them in western society. in fact i would hazard a guess that this actions would leave clear expectations that would better lead to better integration of moderate Muslims into western society.

WHAT THE CHRIST ARE YOU ON ABOUT YOU OBFUSCATING BLOWHARD? INNOCENT PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY BEEN FUCKING HARMED. IT'S WRITTEN RIGHT IN THE OP. TRY FUCKING READING!

 

[GrantDaNasty]

The following is a statement Historian William Doyle made regarding the "Reign of Terror" spearheaded by Maximilien Robespierre shortly after the French Revolution.

Robespierre saw no room for mercy in his Terror, stating that "slowness of judgments is equal to impunity" and "uncertainty of punishment encourages all the guilty". Throughout his Report on the Principles of Political Morality, Robespierre assailed any stalling of action in defense of the Republic. The report was a tract that urged the furtherance of the Revolution at all costs. In his thinking, there was not enough that could be done fast enough in defence against enemies at home and abroad.

The more things change....the more they stay the same.

 

[Valinor]

Like the completely innocent disabled man who had 4 of his teeth broken?

Let's go even deeper. The second article details more horrific actions during these legitimate raids:

yea that was actually quoted in the main post. i read it and the article . nothing in there i see as evidence of need to stop raids or change. again nothing that is an excuse for adoption of extremist ideology. i have nothing against moderate muslims integreating into society. but i think its important to actively create an inhospitable environment/intolerant environment to weed it out. if people choose to espouse to these values knowing the level of tolerance the west has extremist ideology . its their choice to make, the minute they have made their choice they decide to put their extremist ideology over living in a western secular country. their alienation is not more important than routing out extremist ideology . i actually see this as a step towards bringing down extremist in any community and better integration of the moderates into normal society.

 

[The Adder]

yea that was actually quoted in the main post. i read it and the article . nothing in there i see as evidence of need to stop raids or change. again nothing that is an excuse for adoption of extremist ideology.

What the fuck does extremist ideology have to do with him? He's not a fucking extremist. Stop pulling a Rubio and answer the fucking question you're asked instead of running back to your talking points.

 

[TomWaitsForNoMan]

raids could cause moderates to radicalize. moderates who radicalize and adopt extremist ideology have no need to be a part of france.

extremist ideology removal and inshopitablity /intolerance to its ideology >than saving moderates who are malleable to radicalizations.

I agree, which is why they should immediately start militarised police raids on the homes of known National Front supporters. After all it's best to fight extremism head on and if we lose a few extremists, good riddance

 

[Mass_Pincup]

yea that was actually quoted in the main post. i read it and the article . nothing in there i see as evidence of need to stop raids or change. again nothing that is an excuse for adoption of extremist ideology. i have nothing against moderate muslims integreating into society. but i think its important to actively create an inhospitable environment/intolerant environment to weed it out. if people choose to espouse to these values knowing the level of tolerance the west has extremist ideology . its their choice to make, the minute they have made their choice they decide to put their extremist ideology over living in a western secular country. their alienation is not more important than routing out extremist ideology . i actually see this as a step towards bringing down extremist in any community and better integration of the moderates into normal society.

It does not rout out extremist ideology since the vast majority of those raids involved people that did not have anything to do with any extremist or terrorist ideology.

Here's the bilan of what happen during the state of emergency from Le Monde:

Perquisitions means search and out of those search only 5 led to an anti terrorist investigation, they even used the state of emergency to shut down protest regarding the COP21.

 

[Valinor]

A government terrorizing and harming its citizens, both phycitizensand mentally, due to associations they may or may not have based on their religious affiliation is pretty fuckjng fascist.



WHAT THE CHRIST ARE YOU ON ABOUT YOU OBFUSCATING BLOWHARD? INNOCENT PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY BEEN FUCKING HARMED. IT'S WRITTEN RIGHT IN THE OP. TRY FUCKING READING!

put it all in capslockit will bring more people to your stance.. did you read my comments. no one denied the events that occured. so why don't you read. if you are going to swear , then people can just ignore you. who is denying innocence being harmed no one denied it . i am raids and house lockouts necessary to rule out extremist ideology. again also saying if people use this to radicalize i have no sympathy for them.

 

[MegaMelon]

nothing in there i see as evidence of need to stop raids or change..

.

Those targeted said the police burst into homes, restaurants, or mosques; broke people's belongings; threw Qurans on the floor; terrified children; and placed restrictions on people's movements so severely that they lost jobs and income, or suffered physically.

police broke four of a disabled man's teeth before they realised he was not the person they were looking for

police forced open the door of an elderly man with heart problems, causing him to faint. He was later taken to hospital in an ambulance, while his daughters - one of whom is disabled - were handcuffed and screamed at by officers.

again nothing that is an excuse for adoption of extremist ideology. i have nothing against moderate muslims integreating into society. but i think its important to actively create an inhospitable environment/intolerant environment to weed it out.

This will create extremists not weed them out. Oh wait 4/5 potentially terrorist related cases out of more than a thousand.

 

[Valinor]

It does not rout out extremist ideology since the vast majority of those raids involved people that did not have anything to do with any extremist or terrorist ideology.

how do you know they did or didn't were you privy to the information recovered by the officials ?

 

[Mass_Pincup]

how do you know they did or didn't were you privy to the information recovered by the officials ?

See my post above.

 

[Valinor]

What the fuck does extremist ideology have to do with him? He's not a fucking extremist. Stop pulling a Rubio and answer the fucking question you're asked instead of running back to your talking points.

nah i think i am not going to . i have no need to answer your questions especially when you are swearing so much. i have already explained my position. you can keep looking through it to find your answers

 

[MegaMelon]

nah i think i am not going to . i have no need to answer your questions especially when you are swearing so much. i have already explained my position. you can keep looking through it to find your answers

Mind replying to these posts?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=198325051&postcount=83
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=198325833&postcount=94

 

[samn]

People are forgetting two major things: fear, and tiredness.

France has been hit with not one terrorist attack event, but two, with the same radical religious/political revendications. Your average citizen might not care much anymore because the latest attack happened months ago, but police forces are very paranoid for rightful reasons. What if they become more laid back and next thing we know is that that one apartment they didn't raid was housing terrorists planning an attack?

And there's tiredness too. The state of emergency has been going on for a while now. Officers are tired of being constantly vigilant when only 4 people were suspicious enough to be arrested among the large amount of raids and such that were done so far. The mix of tiredness, frustration and fear (all three are very much justified too) can make some messy situations.

I hope the state of emergency goes down in not too long, muslims and immigrants in France seriously need a break. But at the same time France is still a large and easy target for a third round of attacks...

lol @ people saying it's even worse than what American police does though.

In the grand scheme of things, the number of deaths from terrorist attacks is absolutely minuscule. Terrorism is just not as big an issue as people make it out to be.

 

[The Adder]

nah i think i am not going to . i have no need to answer your questions especially when you are swearing so much. i have already explained my position. you can keep looking through it to find your answers

The only thing you've explained is that you're perfectly happy with terrorism as long as it's government mandated and makes you feel safer.