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[Atenhaus]

50s and 60s would disagree with this. And if we're going to go outside the limited scope of the Civil Rights movement, there are plenty of other examples of causes where rioting or violent protest actually pushed stuff forward.

Conversely, rioting accelerated white flight into the suburbs which fucked pretty much every city in the US for more than a generation.

 

[Hierophant]

black man goes in alive black man comes out dead, you can't explain that!

 

[remist]

This was the right thing to do. The DA's case was not strong enough to support charges and they should have known that from the start.

 

[LlamaJohnson]

It was ruled a homicide.

I saw your edit, but I still wanted to reply to this. An ME ruling a death a homicide is simply stating that the death was caused (most likely) by something another person did. This does not imply malice, or intent. That's the burden of the state to prove,which they could not do. I mean shit. Mosby charged murder. The legal definition of murder is the premeditated killing of another. Are you, as a member of the jury or a judge, going to believe that on the day this happened, these officers woke up and said "you know what? I'm going to find Freddy Gray today and kill him." That is murder. They would never be convicted of that. Also, the second degree assault charge: if I touch your arm in the state of MD, that's a second degree assault. A punch, a kick, hitting you with a stuck.... Anything other than the loss of a limb or a debilitating injury falls under second degree assault. If the officers thought they were making a valid arrest, they have to place their hands of someone in order to arrest them. That's not second degree assault, that's doing their job (again, from a legal point of view). The rest if the charges-reckless endangerment and all that- were filler. If you read the law and the elements of the crime, they don't apply. The other charges would be handled internally.

 

[Two Words]

What are the odds of selecting 12 US citizens where none have an irrational bias to defend police and also do not have an irrational bias against black peoples?

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Almost want to laugh because there were people in the last thread saying we were overreacting to the first two acquittals.

Once again, a man is dead, and the ghost of nobody is responsible.

 

[justjohn]

Seriously, how does America still lecture other countries about human rights when this keeps happening on their own doorstep?

 

[EdibleKnife]

Seriously, how does America still lecture other countries about human rights when this keeps happening on their own doorstep?

Cause the US ignores it and pushes it down. Whatever is necessary to seem like a righteous, fair country

 

[Mesousa]

People aren't only protesting in response to this you know? There's a lot of meeting with legislators. There's a lot of going on the news. There's a lot of voting (or at least attempting to vote in the face of a lot of voting restriction bs). So black people are doing a lot in the face of this and nothing is changing.

And that is a waste of time too.

50s and 60s would disagree with this. And if we're going to go outside the limited scope of the Civil Rights movement, there are plenty of other examples of causes where rioting or violent protest actually pushed stuff forward.

Civil rights movement was mostly grassroots protest, and bargaining. Rioting did little, and the areas that experienced mass rioting(watts..ect) are still economically depressed areas not much different(if at all) than they were at the end of the civil rights movement.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Seriously, how does America still lecture other countries about human rights when this keeps happening on their own doorstep?

American is drunk on its own Megamerica image. A lot of Americans have a very skewed calibration for where they stand in relation to the rest of the world, having been told for so long how America is the best the best the best in every way.

This leads America to confuse its stated aspirations to be the leader in human rights and justice with the harsh reality of its own failings.

 

[Kill3r7]

Then why has the legal system so rarely convicted a law enforcement officer for a crime? Especially ones where a citizen died.

What is the best outcome here? A man died. The officers put him in a van and he died. It was ruled a homicide.

But that's no one's responsibility? Explain it to me.

EDIT: Ah, I see that was reference to something else.

Generally speaking, the bar is incredibly low for a legally justifiable shooting (self-defense). In this case, the prosecutor had to believe that they had sufficient evidence to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt to move forward. Mosby was a willing prosecutor but she just couldn't prove her theory of the case.

In acquitting Lt. Rice of manslaughter, the most serious count, Judge Williams said prosecutors didn’t prove the lieutenant knew he created a high risk of death or serious injury by failing to place Mr. Gray in a seat belt—let alone that the officer consciously disregarded such risk. In addition, the judge said prosecutors didn’t prove Lt. Rice’s actions caused Mr. Gray’s death. The judge said a similar analysis helped lead him to a not-guilty finding on reckless endangerment, though he also said the charge didn’t apply in this case for technical reasons.

Judge Williams said it may have been a mistake or bad judgment not putting Mr. Gray in a seat belt, but prosecutors didn’t show it rose to the level of a crime. “Failing to seat-belt a detainee in a transport wagon is not inherently criminal conduct,” he said before acquitting Lt. Rice of misconduct.

Regarding Lt. Rice’s decision to have Mr. Gray’s legs shackled before he was put face down on the van floor, Judge Williams said “There are a number of possibilities the court could entertain, some that are innocent and some that are not. However, the burden of proof rests with the state, and the court’s imaginings do not serve as a substitute for evidence.” - WSJ

 

[Kyzer]

Duh. We black people are well known for being able to break our own spinal cords while in police custody!

Black people just keep falling into their bullets, knees, chokeholds, fists. It's not the police's fault they're just trying to keep them from hurting themselves.

Smh poor police

 

[SeanC]

Awful.

The thought of someone I love being killed and nobody being held accountable...I don't know what I'd do.

 

[Crocodile]

This is me right now >_<

How can communities of color trust the police when the "bad apples" never get punished?

 

[Nudull]

America the Beautiful. :/

 

[commedieu]

This is me right now >_<

How can communities of color trust the police when the "bad apples" never get punished?

Respect goes both ways pal.

 

[Omegasquash]

Am I fucking crazy or have they just let off the people that we know, we know are responsible for the death of a black man?

Because if I'm not crazy, then I don't blame a single person if they choose to riot. Complete and utter injustice.

 

[Salty Rice]

Fuck this seriously.

Of course they walk away like nothing ever happened.

 

[TheOMan]

I personally think they do this on purpose...

Of course they do.

 

[Jarmel]

Seeing that piece of shit smirk about this, is too much.

Hopefully people in Baltimore come out in force about this.

 

[CHC]

The fucking Guy Fieri-style smirk on that guilty cop is just too much. Such an injustice, but so predictable. Tensions will only get worse, of course.

Not really sure why they bother going through the facade of the legal system. Just announce they are not guilty as soon as it happens because they are officers and fuck minorities.

At this point pretty much.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

So if I'm reading the article correctly, the whole thing comes down to there being no regulations or training for the police to put a suspect in a seatbelt, so no foul? What about everything that happened after the injury?

Yet they are happy to find me with my seatbelt so they can collect money, "for my safety." The hoops people have to jump through to find cops innocent.

 

[The Kree]

They called his death a homicide. I don't understand this outcome.

 

[Squalor]

I see that some people are criticizing actions or potential actions of the oppressed and nothing offered from those same people in regard to commiseration or solutions or alternative actions.

Never mind, that's just he norm.

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

Welp, time to turn the fuck up.

 

[molnizzle]

This is infuriating.

 

[EdibleKnife]

I see that some people are criticizing actions or potential actions of the oppressed and nothing offered from those same people in regard to commiseration or solutions or alternative actions.

Never mind, that's just he norm.

They don't have to lift a finger. Just critique. People are suffering and all they can do is critique. It's simple and helps when you want to feel as though you're contributing without actually doing anything. They know all about how to solve injustice yet keep it under their hat.

 

[Volimar]

From a legal stand point, after the first three "strongest" cases did not result in convictions, this doesn't surprise me the attorney general's office dropped the charges. In their minds it would be a waste of time and taxpayer's dollars.

This. Each acquittal was a slap in the face. Whether they had the evidence or not, those cops weren't going to be found guilty. Might as well drop email all. Disgraceful, but not unexpected.

 

[kame-sennin]

Welp, time to turn the fuck up.

Word.

 

[norm9]

Not surprised. Hope Baltimore stays safe.

 

[O Canada Our Home and Native Land]

There's too much conflict of interest with the way current system has local district and state attorneys trying police.

 

[GaimeGuy]

It's absolutely incredible that a handcuffed, defenseless man can go into a police car okay, be improperly secured in his seat, resulting in spinal injuries and death, the medical examiner rules his death a homicide... and no one is held criminally accountable for it.


It was a homicide. And it sure as hell wasn't justifiable. Yet... no convictions for anyone.

 

[Captin Quacker]

I see that some people are criticizing actions or potential actions of the oppressed and nothing offered from those same people in regard to commiseration or solutions or alternative actions.

Never mind, that's just he norm.

Every

Fucking

Time

 

[FreedomFighter]

Freddie Gray death ruled a homicide.

Everyone who had anything to do with his severed spinal cord and subsequent death will NOT be held accountable.

Typical 'Murica.

 

[molnizzle]

Freddie Gray death ruled a homicide.

Everyone who had anything to do with his severed spinal cord and subsequent death will NOT be held accountable.

Typical 'Murica.

I just don't understand. His death was ruled a homicide. By definition, that means that another human was responsible for killing him. He was alive and well when he got into the van. So... one of officers in that van is responsible for his death. Or all of them.

How can charges by dropped now? If this is a homicide, are they trying to say that an invisible phantom ghost snuck into the van and killed him without the officers realizing? This makes no sense.

 

[Omegasquash]

I just don't understand. His death was ruled a homicide. By definition, that means that another human was responsible for killing him. He was alive and well when he got into the van. So... one of officers in that van is responsible for his death. Or all of them.

How can charges by dropped now? If this is a homicide, are they trying to say that an invisible phantom ghost snuck into the van and killed him without the officers realizing? This makes no sense.

Watch the outcome be some shit like training. Just watch.

 

[CrimsonCommie]

Smh just another Wednesday in the USA

 

[BitStyle]

The system is completely and utterly fucked

.

 

[dave is ok]

I just don't understand. His death was ruled a homicide. By definition, that means that another human was responsible for killing him. He was alive and well when he got into the van. So... one of officers in that van is responsible for his death. Or all of them.

How can charges by dropped now? If this is a homicide, are they trying to say that an invisible phantom ghost snuck into the van and killed him without the officers realizing? This makes no sense.

Because they charged them with second degree depraved heart murder - and to prove that they'd need to prove the suspect knowingly did something that was likely to kill, and that he showed "extreme indifference" to the possible harm. You're never going to get proof of that kind against the driver.

They should have tried for a lesser charge.

 

[Dai101]

 

[PandaShake]

That's a good photographer who knew the right pic to snap because that's a real punchable face.

 

[Xe4]

Sad, truly sad. It's unacceptable that even the driver didn't spend jail time.

 

[Sunster]

Lets wait for the facts to come out and justice to be serve--- oh wait...

 

[molnizzle]

Because they charged them with second degree depraved heart murder - and to prove that they'd need to prove the suspect knowingly did something that was likely to kill, and that he showed "extreme indifference" to the possible harm. You're never going to get proof of that kind against the driver.

They should have tried for a lesser charge.

So can't the charges be downgraded or something?

Dudes just get off scot-free because they only committed a "lesser" form of murder?

 

[dave is ok]

So can't the charges be downgraded or something?

Dudes just get off scot-free because they only committed a "lesser" form of murder?

Yep

 

[LiquidSword]

I just don't understand. His death was ruled a homicide. By definition, that means that another human was responsible for killing him. He was alive and well when he got into the van. So... one of officers in that van is responsible for his death. Or all of them.

How can charges by dropped now? If this is a homicide, are they trying to say that an invisible phantom ghost snuck into the van and killed him without the officers realizing? This makes no sense.

It's because Freddie Gray's life doesn't matter to most of America. Just another thug off the streets.

 

[Pandaman]

How old is that photo that the trees are still barren.

 

[Mariolee]

Do they do this shit with white victims too?

 

[cw_sasuke]

Thought this was the best country in the world right now ?

 

[tearsintherain]

So can't the charges be downgraded or something?

Dudes just get off scot-free because they only committed a "lesser" form of murder?

Good article on why it was never likely they were going to be convicted of the crimes as charged
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...in_convictions_in_the_freddie_gray_cases.html

The district attorney rushed to prosecute after a quick internal investigation instead of using the grand jury system. Which allows more time for evidence to be gathered, witnesses to be gathered, defendants to turn, and a better sense of what charges are likely to hold up. The officers could and would have been convicted of lesser crimes, but once you are tried for the higher crimes you cannot be tried for the same crime under a lesser charge in criminal cases. Civil cases against the officers can still continue, although likely the city will settle out of court with the family.

That was probably the biggest mistake in the entire prosecution and is likely to cause the DA, Marilyn Mosby, her career.

Which is pretty ironic - mistakes by the six officers result in a man's death. Mistake by the DA results in all six doing zero jail time.