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FRIDAYTON MK II: 5.5 million bears and salmon create unholy allliance to sack SONY HQ

S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Verendus said:
1. They're wrong. They should get better sources, or at least attempt a better analysis.

2. OS matters are a bit more complicated than how this is being portrayed.

3. I clearly have a lot to learn before becoming a master troll.

4. It's Friday. My mobile is getting too much of a workout for a Friday.
Click to expand...

Did you see who wrote the article?
 
E

Evolution_1ne

Banned
Orayn said:
Wasn't that demo just a target render running on PC?
Click to expand...

michael-jordan-lol.gif
 
B

BlazingDarkness

Member
famousmortimer said:
Sony has no reason to talk numbers. The developers know how much ram is available to them. That's the only group of people who need to know anything.


Sony isn't all that concerned with message board pissing contests and nor should they be. They keep their info close to their chest because of the competition, not because they think that the general audience cares about RAM. Because by and large they don't. It matters now because it's the summer before release and we're bored. But all of this tech nonsense gets thrown out the window when the systems actually release. At that point we will be comparing how games look and play. That's what really matters.
Click to expand...

They didn't need to talk numbers, they simply could have clarified that the 8GB RAM was both for developers and for their ambitious OS plans, they didn't do that.

You can claim Sony isn't concerned with message board 'pissing contests' but I should think you of all people should know that when enough people express discontent, things need to change (see: everything about the Xbone) especially when they've claimed to be so supportive of the gamer.
 
K

kitch9

Banned
How quickly does Gaf think development of software happens?

8GB was only just added at the last minute, why would Sony just release it to developers until they have had chance to explore the possibilities the extra gives and lock down the os first?

I don't expect either Sony or MS to keep their current os ram requirements as they are.
 
O

Orayn

Member
kurbaan said:
Are you joking? They played it on stage.
Click to expand...

I think I'm just mixed up. I could swear there was something that Guerrilla pointed out was not done on PS4, but that might have just been certain downsampled screenshots.

I really am just confused, not trying to start shit.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
thuway said:
Sony is playing it very safe for launch units. Things like clock rates, OS size, and memory allotments are conservative for a reason. Sony does not want to be in a position where they will lose out on a killer feature or find themselves in a position where there is zero room to grow. I wouldn't be surprised if year 3 or 4 of the PS4's life cycle you see a patch to upclock the GPU.

Upclocking the PS4's GPU 200 mhz more would yield a 2.3 TF machine.

As of this moment, not a single developer has complained about "too little RAM". Most developers are very happy by not only the quantity, but the speed of RAM. As we enter the third year of the machine, the OS size will shrink and things will become less bloated.

Let things play their part and STOP overreacting. Some of you have zero idea how well designed and balanced the PS4 is.
Click to expand...

How well designed and balanced was it when it had 4GB ram?

What kind of apps and features are Sony worried about not being able to support? Do they have some idea on why Xbox has such a large OS footprint, or are they literally just reserving it because they can?
 
BadAss2961

BadAss2961

Member
Phire Phox said:
While the PS4 is more powerful, the Xbone IMO offers a better selection of games based on what we've seen so far, not to mention the superior OS features and revolutionary Kinect sensor. Better hardware does not necessarily make the better console.
Click to expand...
lol.

Also, do those superior OS features you mention have to do with television?
 
Chobel

Chobel

Member
Verendus said:
1. They're wrong. They should get better sources, or at least attempt a better analysis.

2. OS matters are a bit more complicated than how this is being portrayed.

3. I clearly have a lot to learn before becoming a master troll.

4. It's Friday. My mobile is getting too much of a workout for a Friday.
Click to expand...

oh shit!!!
xblF4.gif
 
K

Kazuma Kiryu

Member
Hedon said:
Agreed. It no different than people confirming the Xbox One is using 3gb of RAM for OS, when that has not been confirmed by MS either.
Click to expand...

Well, that one has been almost confirmed, no?

Game Informer: "My question is in terms of RAM you said there is 8GB of RAM my impression was there is 5 of that being diverted to the games, 3 of that to running the always-on apps partition. Sony has 8GB of GDDR5 which is pretty fast RAM and I think it is all unified towards games. Do you think that puts you at a technical disadvantage because there is [in the Xbox One] only 5GB of functioning RAM for games?

Marc Whitten: "Yeah, Im not going to talk about Sonys system, Im not close enough to really understand how there system works. I will say that I think the way weve balanced our system is really key, in terms of two things. The first one is we believe that we are going to have amazing experiences that are clearly next-gen. I think you guys saw some experiences that set a bar that is clearly very high... This isnt about so I can watch TV at the same time as Im watching games those are interesting scenarios as well. At a gaming level the ability to create a modern gaming experiences, where LIVE and the apps and services you can run at the same time as the game, we think will really change that experience we think its key.
Click to expand...
 
Vestal

Vestal

Junior Member
You know I don't think this is a big deal at all. I expected something like 2GB to be reserved. My only issue with this if it turns out to be true, is the excessive showboating by Sony in regards to 8GB GDDR5, and turn around not make a statement regarding the reserved memory being this big and we only find out through a leak. Sets a pretty bad precedent on their part.

What I do think is pretty hilarious is the double standard set by posters in regards to this announcement compared to the X1.. It was "DOOOM" "LOL MS" etc when they came out and said 3GB reserved, and they did so months ago.

Now we have a story that's been somewhat confirmed(not 100%) and there is a lot of "logic" being displayed as opposed to the Torch and Pitchforks back in the MS thread.
 
LiquidMetal14

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
Barzul said:
So Sony's "goal" if this rumor is true, is to eventually reduce the amount of RAM being used up by the OS/match new features by MS and Ninty. Yet in the Phil Spencer indie thread some people kept drawing to Phil's use of the word "goal", when Sony is using a similar approach, albeit in a much different context. Why does Sony get the benefit of the doubt, that the OS footprint might eventually be reduced, (if this rumor is true) but not MS in regards to indie full use of RAM? Anyways, I don't see this having much of an effect on PS4 games, which is overall still the more powerful system. Hope we get official word on this Sony, wasn't this article initially withheld so Sony could prepare a statement of some sort?
Click to expand...

Surely you can distinguish the fact that an actual MSFT rep said those words and Sony hasn't use that wording right? Don't draw your own conclusion and make stuff up now.
 
C

CrisKre

Member
The point for many I think is that, opposed to what many of us where believing, this puts ps4 and xbone in almost equal footing. The won't be, it appears, a very significant gap at all. This changes things for many. It looks like in terms of technology is going to be a similar situation to the current gen.
 
T

thuway

Member
TheLegendary said:
Im curious if you could explain how this differs from MS' position where they can similarly reduce the size as time goes on? Or even upclock via a patch as you claim?
Click to expand...

Microsoft can do the exact same thing. This is all a game of chess. Both Sony and Microsoft have held back on clock rates for launch units. They both can up clock at any given moment, but it is a better idea to upclock in a few years and let the mass public get a definitive bump in fidelity over doing it at launch and stagger your way through the gen.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
Verendus said:
1. They're wrong. They should get better sources, or at least attempt a better analysis.

2. OS matters are a bit more complicated than how this is being portrayed.

3. I clearly have a lot to learn before becoming a master troll.

4. It's Friday. My mobile is getting too much of a workout for a Friday.
Click to expand...

Damn Verendus is putting it ALL on the line. If he misfires here he probably will have his certified insider status revoked lol
 
L

la flama blanca

Banned
mrklaw said:
How well designed and balanced was it when it had 4GB ram?

What kind of apps and features are Sony worried about not being able to support? Do they have some idea on why Xbox has such a large OS footprint, or are they literally just reserving it because they can?
Click to expand...

Because why the fuck not? Nobody is going to use that much ram right now.
 
I

IN&OUT

Banned
GuitarAtomik said:
Is it set in stone?
Click to expand...

From the article
"Sony and Microsoft's approaches to OS allocation could come in their future plans for the reserved RAM. A Microsoft insider tells us that the engineers behind the Xbox One specifically chose 3GB in order to allow the background platform to evolve over a ten-year life-cycle - it's very hard to add features if the pool of available RAM is reduced from its initial level. The reserved RAM allocation there is set in stone, and is unlikely to change."

Wonder why people ignore this bombshell?
 
J

jmls1121

Banned
Saty said:
The point isn't how much RAM is enough but that Sony was picked as the 'gamer's console' also because its specs advantage and mainly the 8GB of GDDR5, but now the specs aren't much different and the DRM is the same.
Click to expand...

I'm not a fan of Sony and MS at all, but this is just wrong.

Sony is choosing to have flexibility in releasing this ram in the future.

A war is about to be waged. Are consoles going to be game machines first, or multimedia machines first?

The market will decide. Sony simply wants flexibility to alter the value proposition of its consoles depending on the whims of the marketplace. It is an incredibly smart move.
 
W

Wizman23

Banned
Duxxy3 said:
Next gen is looking very not next gen the more and more we learn about it.
Click to expand...

Yeah you are 100% right because going from 512MGS of RAM for BOTH OS and developement to 3GBS and 5GBS won't produce significant results at all. Gimme a break with the hyperbole.
 
xaosslug

xaosslug

Member
Verendus said:
1. They're wrong. They should get better sources, or at least attempt a better analysis.

2. OS matters are a bit more complicated than how this is being portrayed.

3. I clearly have a lot to learn before becoming a master troll.

4. It's Friday. My mobile is getting too much of a workout for a Friday.
Click to expand...

#bewp
 
G

gundamkyoukai

Member
Verendus said:
1. They're wrong. They should get better sources, or at least attempt a better analysis.

2. OS matters are a bit more complicated than how this is being portrayed.

3. I clearly have a lot to learn before becoming a master troll.

4. It's Friday. My mobile is getting too much of a workout for a Friday.
Click to expand...

Interesting to bad we can't get numbers.
 
K

kurbaan

Banned
ironchair said:
1GB? Maybe not. 3.5 GB? Oh, hellllll no.
Click to expand...

Thats now how an OS works. Just because 3.5GB is reserved doesnt mean the OS is using 3.5GB AT ALL TIMEs. Same on Xbone. In the case of xbox when you are multitasking the size used grow. the reserved amount is the just the max that it can grow to that is ALL.
 
Jinfash

Jinfash

needs 2 extra inches
Verendus said:
1. They're wrong. They should get better sources, or at least attempt a better analysis.

2. OS matters are a bit more complicated than how this is being portrayed.

3. I clearly have a lot to learn before becoming a master troll.

4. It's Friday. My mobile is getting too much of a workout for a Friday.
Click to expand...
Fwiw, the only reason I canceled my preorder is because I'm taking you up on your word.
 
Harlock

Harlock

Member
Sony and MS should bring back the RAM cartridge expansion. Wanna share your gameplay and talk with your friends? Put the extra 3gigs of ram. In the slot.
 
A

Anpanman

Banned
IN&OUT said:
From the article
"Sony and Microsoft's approaches to OS allocation could come in their future plans for the reserved RAM. A Microsoft insider tells us that the engineers behind the Xbox One specifically chose 3GB in order to allow the background platform to evolve over a ten-year life-cycle - it's very hard to add features if the pool of available RAM is reduced from its initial level. The reserved RAM allocation there is set in stone, and is unlikely to change."

Wonder why people ignore this bombshell?
Click to expand...

Because it's not a bombshell.
 
T

Tookay

Member
TheLegendary said:
How does this differ than what Microsoft (or the consoles last gen) is doing? The post is a sugar coating of the same situation that everyone gave MS shit for; taking up a huge amount of space for non gaming functions, whether a portion is reserved for potential future proofing or not. Proelite already said that some of the space that's reserved for the Xbox is open space for future proofing; just like Sony is doing here. Both can (and most likely will) reduce the footprint in the future.

Baffling how this post is being congratulated when it's essentially PR spin.
Click to expand...

It was dumb to trash MS for allocation back then, and it is dumb for Sony to be trashed for it now. Any reasonable person should know that both systems are going to have to reserve some space for future proofing and non-game applications, especially after the way trends have gone this gen.

The amount reserved to the OS... that might be a more valid concern, but I have a feeling that the amount of RAM on both the Xbone and PS4 will be plenty for the foreseeable future.
 
K

kevm3

Member
mrklaw said:
Basically this.

It also makes no sense for Sony to absorb the cost impact of an extra 4Gb of ram, only to release a tiny amount of that for games.

Plus I have no idea what you'd need that amount for. Cross party chat doesn't need 3GB. How much dos vita use,and that has multiple apps open at a time with instant switching, and cross game chat etc.
Click to expand...

Pretty much. It would be a horribly inefficient and wasteful move to add 4GB of expensive ram, run around proclaiming you are the machine for gamers, by gamers and how you're listening to developers by the addition of that RAM and then block of 88% of it and give developers maybe an extra gig of it to play around with over what they had before while using the rest of it for some undisclosed OS features.

The 3.5 number makes no sense given the One was designed from the FLOOR UP to be a general purpose multimedia box, is running 3 OSs and has integrated Kinect functionality while only using 3. Also, why wouldn't you design the system to have a mixture of DDR3 and GDDR5 if we were going to use so much for the OS. It makes no kind of sense to add 4 GB of relatively expensive GDDR5 for the bloating of the OS. I find the 3.5 number hard to believe given the announcement was made BEFORE the revealing of the One and that the One would be a general purpose multimedia box... so it couldn't have been added as a reaction for OS functionality.

The fact that people are saying 4.5 is 'fine' and a ton of RAM for game development just goes to show you how utterly ridiculous it is that the OS is blocking off so much of it. If 4.5 is fine for highly advanced next generation games, then what could possibly be running in the background to necessitate 3.5 of it being reserved? 4.5 might be 'fine' for now, but it won't be in the future. If Sony is blocking off so much RAM, they need to be criticized even harsher than Microsoft for going on about being the gamer's console and then actually blocking off MORE RAM for no apparent reason.
 
K

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
mrklaw said:
Basically this.

It also makes no sense for Sony to absorb the cost impact of an extra 4Gb of ram, only to release a tiny amount of that for games.

Plus I have no idea what you'd need that amount for. Cross party chat doesn't need 3GB. How much dos vita use,and that has multiple apps open at a time with instant switching, and cross game chat etc.




As for Sony releasing ram over time - don't forget you'll get lag from that. If Sony frees up another 1-1.5B, it'll be a year or more until games take advantage of it.

Using the argument that PC games don't need that much is shortsighted too
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'd much rather bet on game devs finding a way to use 6-7 GB of RAM faster than Sony's OS team legitimately think of ways to use 2-3 GB for OS. In terms of an ROI on the extra 4GB of RAM, the former will likely payoff a lot faster and continue to offer dividends in the long-term to. Whereas, if they're just going to sit on a couple of gig of RAM lying fallow for who knows how long, that's definitely money they're eating on each unit sold basically.
 
M

McLovin

Member
I like how we went from 4gb gddr > 8gb ddr3 to 5.5gb gddr isn't enough. I don't think they will use all 3.5gb, I'm guessing they are using it as wiggle room to add more features later. When they figure their stuff out they will probably free up memory. If they only reserved .5gb for the OS right off the start they will be SOL when they decided they need more for some next gen feature. And if they do decide to claim some back then every game released before that would either not work or need a patch.
 
cyberheater

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Verendus said:
1. They're wrong. They should get better sources, or at least attempt a better analysis.

2. OS matters are a bit more complicated than how this is being portrayed.

3. I clearly have a lot to learn before becoming a master troll.

4. It's Friday. My mobile is getting too much of a workout for a Friday.
Click to expand...

I hope you're right.
 
J

JaggedSac

Member
TheLegendary said:
How does this differ than what Microsoft (or the consoles last gen) is doing? The post is a sugar coating of the same situation that everyone gave MS shit for; taking up a huge amount of space for non gaming functions, whether a portion is reserved for potential future proofing or not. Proelite already said that some of the space that's reserved for the Xbox is open space for future proofing; just like Sony is doing here. Both can (and most likely will) reduce the footprint in the future.

Baffling how this post is being congratulated when it's essentially PR spin.




Im curious if you could explain how this differs from MS' position where they can similarly reduce the size as time goes on? Or even upclock via a patch as you claim?
Click to expand...

lol, yeah, now the bloated OS MS got criticized for is now the norm. Watching the flow of opinions on gaf is pretty cool.
 
M

Mlatador

Banned
cyberheater said:
If Sony had stuck to 4Gb GDDR. How much of that would have been reserved for the OS?
Click to expand...

That is excactly what I was thinking. So basically after they knew that XboxOne would go for 8 GB, they HAD to follow suit in order to match up.

So the "the 8 GB of Ram was only to please developers, because "WE are a PURE gaming machine"" seems to be a PR spin after all.
 
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