Exactly the same for me. No complaints about the frame rate from me
From Software responds to Dark Souls II graphics downgrade concerns
- Thread starter Poetic.Injustice
- Start date
It is a crazy thing to rage about but it is not crazy to be highly pissed off about it. The evidence seems to show that the target level of graphics were unattainable on current gen hardware, yet nowhere in the pre-release material did it say PC footage etc, which in EU law, I think they are obligated to do.
Regardless, what happened here was pretty shitty and From's non-response just adds salt into the wound.
The false advertising is a big thing. But I'm going to be really annoyed if the PC version includes downgrades that only happened for performance reasons, and only toward the end of development.
Again, pretty much all the screenshots we've seen looked dreadful.
I don't know why people keep saying this.
Whichever justifies their anger the most at the time. It changes.
Personally the idea that people are willing to try to rake a company over the coals for trading lighting effects for gameplay stability is insane, especially since them even taking a crack at it is probably work for the PC version and will be borne out. Doubly so since DS1 as much as I love the game had some real problems which EVERYONE talked about, (Blighttown. etc)
If there was one place I figured that would say gameplay was king I figured it would be neogaf, and if there was one game whose audience I felt would champion gameplay above all else it'd be Dark Souls.
Instead I need that "crazy pills" gif
Thats where 90% of my disappointment with DkSII is coming from. It's art just isn't as strong and cohesive as DkS. In the design works guide Miyazaki talks about how he'd turn away designs that didn't have some measure of elegance, or regalness to go along with the more disturbing aesthetics. It's this vision which I think is what gives DkS it's more ethereal, esoteric sense of decayed beauty and place.
DkSII's director's seem to have scrapped that, as some of these designs for bosses etc look like something that could be in a cheesy bad John Carpenter film. Having said that, those designs are fewer than the good ones. Like I said before, the problem is that DkSII's art isn't as cohesive and consistent.
Well, this is NeoGAF. Molehills, mountains, etc.
Mechanized
Member
Strongly agree. The game is amazing, looks good. I just don't get the uproar. Some geometry and lighting changed between the preview and final version. Welcome to games?
Look at all the apologists crawling out of the wood work, it's almost as if we have to repeat ourself every other post, we are damn clear over the fact that it's a good game. I even bought Demons Souls before the gaf hype train, but I can't stand for shady business practice.
But the world will be mended if they give me the full release on PC, so let's just play the waiting game.
And what is this about people playing the PC release already, I don't think the game had leaked.
But the world will be mended if they give me the full release on PC, so let's just play the waiting game.
And what is this about people playing the PC release already, I don't think the game had leaked.
dragonfart28
Banned
Yea, as I said in the other thread, I'm shocked at how significantly it changed. We've all seen a gradual scale back in fidelity, but those hallways are a completely different category of quality.
And I bet the frame drops wouldn't even be that substantial in those cases.
It could be that the devs were forced to release an unfinished product to make the deadline.
Reductionist garbage like this isn't helping. The changes are significant.
Maybe because some of you are getting used to that slideshow by now.
It doesnt get really better once the tutorial area is done. Majula has some really huge lows too. Its up to the physics and alphas, combined with the level size that determines the framerate apparently and I have some serious issues with input lag because of this and thats why I notice it much more than compared to Blighttown.
Well, after that response I'm really not that optimistic about the chance of lighting being better on PC.
This is what I hope went down:
From developed the game on PC, looking exactly as advertised. They were confident they could get the lighting running on a console too. In the end, that didn't pan out so they had no choice but to quickly remove a ton of dynamic lights and add ambient light so that places aren't too dark. The only thing that really supports this is that it really seemed they wanted to make torches a big part of the game and now in the console version there's really no need for them. A quick change like that could cause it.
What I think happened:
From created the demo area specifically to show off their engine. They knew consoles wouldn't run that and and, because the game is absolutely massive, didn't have enough resources to make separate console and PC versions so the PC version will look the same.
This is what I hope went down:
From developed the game on PC, looking exactly as advertised. They were confident they could get the lighting running on a console too. In the end, that didn't pan out so they had no choice but to quickly remove a ton of dynamic lights and add ambient light so that places aren't too dark. The only thing that really supports this is that it really seemed they wanted to make torches a big part of the game and now in the console version there's really no need for them. A quick change like that could cause it.
What I think happened:
From created the demo area specifically to show off their engine. They knew consoles wouldn't run that and and, because the game is absolutely massive, didn't have enough resources to make separate console and PC versions so the PC version will look the same.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
I just want to throw my 2¢ in this discussion and say that even though I haven't played through Dark Souls 2, I did follow some of the development (fan reception included) and this is exactly what it seems like from an outsider's perspective.
It's a shitty practice.. Reminds me of Aliens: Colonial Marines even though that game turned out worse; shady marketing strategies.
EDIT:
lmfao
WickedLaharl
Member
major loss of respect. so much so that i will be weary of any future day one purchases.
zephervack
Member
OMG YES
Yep. With some of these enemies, bosses, areas and NPCs, I seriously get the feeling I'm playing cookie-cutter fantasy game #18324. Then in other places, the old Souls-style still shines through. It's a shame, these inconsistencies are so jarring that sometimes it really hurts the immersion for me.
Well, we can only hope that Miyazaki is already working on the next Souls game as we speak.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Yeah they are significant, but what really irks me (and most people from the sound of it) is the way this has been handled by FROM. If they had to downgrade it because they came across performance problems on the hardware during development, then please just fucking say so. Misleading customers with flashy previews that look nothing like the final product is one thing, but then to gloss it over with vague PR speak which avoids the issue is another beast entirely. I just don't get why so many developers treat their customers like ignorant children. Honesty and respect is such a wonderful policy that so few developers in the videogame industry today follow, and I just can't understand why that is.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Garcia
Member
Holy shit, LOL!
atomic moth
Member
Haha what? You bought Demons Souls. You noticed the change. That's all that was implied and you fit right in there.
I'm not sure where all that other stuff is coming from. You might need to take a step back from this situation.
What really confuses me is the conflicting information coming from every direction.
Disclaimer: I haven't (like many other users, I suspect) seen this game live in action, but only through .gif and videos. I'm waiting on the PC version.
- People claim "no 'downgraded media' was shown prior to leaked gifs and early copies." Brad and Vinny on GiantBomb says the final event they went to before the game was released (2 months before release or so) had the event-version looking exactly like the final product. They, and other websites, published videos and screenshots from this build, that apparently was exactly the same as the final build.
- People claim that "the build that the network Beta ran on was hugely different than the final 'downgraded' build", yet others claim it was the same 'final' build.
- People seem to have the idea that spending huge amount of development time and resources with the only intent on tricking their consumers is a plausible scenario. That, to me, is crazy talk.
- Finally, I agree that it's crazy that Namco and / or From aren't talking more about this. There's obviously been some change between an early build that was shown, and the build that was finally released. I'm sure the simple answer to why it changed is more boring than the conspiracy theory "they wanted more pre-orders!!".
Disclaimer: I haven't (like many other users, I suspect) seen this game live in action, but only through .gif and videos. I'm waiting on the PC version.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
What a bullshit excuse. The TGS demo, running on actual PS3s, looked and performed way better than the retail game.
It's very clear now that the TGS demo was a vertical slice and the actual game never looked or ran as well as the demo. From lied since the beginning all the way to the release of the game and is still doing it in regards of the PC version.
Fuck From and fuck its apologists.
It's very clear now that the TGS demo was a vertical slice and the actual game never looked or ran as well as the demo. From lied since the beginning all the way to the release of the game and is still doing it in regards of the PC version.
Fuck From and fuck its apologists.
Well I haven't played the game yet(waiting for PC version), so perhaps the game looks even worse, but surely saying that FROM released 'beautiful screenshots' is quite a massive exaggeration?
See, posts like yours is while some people dismiss all of us who voice criticism as crazies. Please stop that hyperbolic shit.
Who knows whether that early preview footage actually ran on a PS3? I seriously doubt that. Just because some gaming journalist said so doesn't mean it's true.
All I know is that the network beta had more severe framerate problems than the final game has in that area. In the final game that same level is missing a couple of dynamic lightsources and has brighter ambient lighting but it runs better.
What version of the game are you referring to?
zephervack
Member
Seriously, let me tell you why we are so passionate about this, because we love this game, we were the ones that imported Demon Souls from Japan, and the ones that got every person we know to play this game and made it what it is.
We love Souls and we were lied to, I have been following everything they have released, Im still going to play and enjoy the game but that doesnt mean I dont have a voice when it comes to false advertising.
The network test build and final build are very similar.
The major differences are lights don't cast dynamic shadows anymore to quell performance issues, and the brightness has been turned up.
Additional note: not all dynamic lights were removed. Some of them.
PairOfFilthySocks
Member
Please, try to be more embarrassingly loyal to a company, I'm curious to see if it's possible.
How the fuck are people supposed to know?
Are you talking about the consistent slight delay before an attack or the glitch where you press a button and it doesn't happen for several seconds?
He is right though because he is referring to the official screenshots and not to the early reveal footage.
Perhaps you are unaware of what a 'screenshot' is.
Please, try to be more embarrassingly loyal to a company, I'm curious to see if it's possible.
And I'm not loyal to anyone. Lay off the accusations until you know what you're talking about please.
Cant really say its a glitch. It feels like input lag that sometimes happen. I notice that the game stutters heavier when its happening. Maybe I'm too sensitive but this is taking a tad bit longer than the usual input lag.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
Only look crazy to those than don't do basic research:
The beta test was a build of the actual game, that's why it had performance issues.
Here's some footage of the Forest of Fallen Giants from the January Press Preview event: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io7xa6vCV_w
Looks like the retail to me.
Also, lets not forget that in the months leading up to release there were no shortage of people popping into the various DkSII threads and commenting on how awful they thought the game looked; via video and screenshots.
To assert that FROM pulled a bait and switch on release day is complete garbage.
Games change during development. A very well known and well documented case of EXACTLY this is the Halo 2 E3 Gameplay Reveal. The game looked far better than retail, it's AI was far better than retail, it's graphics were far better than retail. Go look up The Making of Halo 2 on YouTube.
This wasn't a case of Bungie maliciously attempting to mislead consumers. Just like this isn't a case of FROMSoft maliciously misleading consumers. It's simply game development. And this kind of thing has happened far longer and much more often than anyone here seems to remember, or be aware of.
From have us a third, fantastic Souls game. They don't owe "gamers" anything else.
I'm not saying DkSII is perfect, but it's a fantastic game despite it's flaws. Unlike many other modern games I've played.
Looks like the retail to me.
Also, lets not forget that in the months leading up to release there were no shortage of people popping into the various DkSII threads and commenting on how awful they thought the game looked; via video and screenshots.
To assert that FROM pulled a bait and switch on release day is complete garbage.
Games change during development. A very well known and well documented case of EXACTLY this is the Halo 2 E3 Gameplay Reveal. The game looked far better than retail, it's AI was far better than retail, it's graphics were far better than retail. Go look up The Making of Halo 2 on YouTube.
This wasn't a case of Bungie maliciously attempting to mislead consumers. Just like this isn't a case of FROMSoft maliciously misleading consumers. It's simply game development. And this kind of thing has happened far longer and much more often than anyone here seems to remember, or be aware of.
From have us a third, fantastic Souls game. They don't owe "gamers" anything else.
I'm not saying DkSII is perfect, but it's a fantastic game despite it's flaws. Unlike many other modern games I've played.
Deified Data
Banned
Kind of a bullshit answer, isn't it.
Really hoping the PC build delivers, but I have my reservations.
Really hoping the PC build delivers, but I have my reservations.
Bye.
Started last night and thought the same thing. The costal area you get to where it's sunny looks pretty nice but overall the game seems really ugly so far:
Good find. I had a feeling that some double standards were in play between this and the Watch Dogs situation.
Ick. I was thinking you were talking about something else, but yeah, that sucks.
Brerlappin
Member
Im holding out for the PC version, but hearing this (alongside the downgrade) really disheartens me. Tho, i had fully prepared myself for DS2 to be the weakest in the series once i heard Miyazaki wasnt onboard. DeS/DS were his visions. without him, its just an imitation.
Im barely even excited to play it when PC does drop. The art, aesthetics, and atmosphere are what i love about DeS/DS
Screenshotted that one
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