That's what happens when your passionate about the series you like. It's not like we just want to shit on the series for the fun of it, we're here because we care and expected better.
From Software responds to Dark Souls II graphics downgrade concerns
- Thread starter Poetic.Injustice
- Start date
That's what happens when your passionate about the series you like. It's not like we just want to shit on the series for the fun of it, we're here because we care and expected better.
TheCongressman1
Member
Now guys, even though the walking animations are bad, it isn't part of the downgrade. They have sadly looked that way since the reveal. So, I guess that is off topic.
Because it doesn't have to do with the graphics downgrade. Unless the demo had no sliding, but I seem to recall people complaining about it then as well.
There are lots of things to nitpick in the game, but that is true of every game. It would be best to keep the thread focused on malpractice. Otherwise people get in a frenzy over the tiniest thing, like a sliding foot, and it diminishes the issue that really needs attention.
Orthogonal
Member
That is very interesting. I suppose there are tradeoffs for whatever method is used. The gif machine is rolling now so I'm sure we'll see a lot more comparisons.
sublimit
Banned
My God these are fucking awesome (never saw them before).The original Dark Souls team had some of the best animators in the industry.
The discussion moved to Dark Souls vs Dark Souls 2 animations with some people saying that they see no differences.So in that regard the gifs were very much on topic.
You know, I kinda agree, I kinda got caught up in how good DS1 gifs looked. It's probably best to focus on other places of the game. They my look worse than Dark Souls 1, the animations, but we've known that since they started showing us footage.
Dick Justice
Banned
Animation is an aspect of graphics. Y'know, the visual aspect.
DrROBschiz
Member
Trust me.
I definitely want a souls game that looks and plays like the reveal footage.
They didn't have enough time and had to build the game mostly for old consoles.
It is a shame that the PC version will only be a bit better rather than looking like the early demos.
At least now the next Souls game should be all current gen. Hopefully they get to take their time
andregnreis
Member
/applause /bow
Totally agree. People are making a storm in a teacup. This downgrade should be expected, considering the base plataform was the PC... and it is also normal that the images to promote the game are better than what you actually get... even Rockstar, Valve, Blizzard or Nintendo does that! It is really difficult to imagine a gaf member not knowing or expecting any of this.
Besides all that, the game run and look much better now... you can complain about one part of the game, and it is totally acceptable, but it is WRONG to talk like everything is shitty, or like overall it is worse! Before playing, while i was just reading this exactly same topic, i actually made me worry about the game!
At last, I think the examples people are using to "prove" their point, show exactly what kind of point they want to make (the intent to complain about really small things).
Animations? Maybe, I have not taken the time to compare them so I can't talk about it. I didn't mention them tho.
Graphics wise? Not a chance. The lightning and the resolution are much better and that alone makes a huge impact on the IQ.
Both games got some impressive environments because of From's art but graphically the upgrade cannot be denied.
John Rabbit
Banned
lets try a real comparison. i just recorded these.
dark souls on left, dark souls II on right.
here's a video of both the walk and run animations.
dark souls on left, dark souls II on right.
here's a video of both the walk and run animations.
Can you point me to the comparison of the animations in the initial reveal to how they were downgraded in the final release?
I don't know about the time constraint, it's not like people are just going to stop playing PS3 and 360 all of a sudden because of next gen.
A bit of honesty wouldn't go amiss and they shouldn't show and make a big deal out of the new lighting if it isn't going to be in the final product. Also now with the animation comparisons appearing, I'm fearing they skimped on more than just lighting.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
That floating.
Here you go:
Dark Souls 2:
I'm really having a hard time trying to see the floating part.
The foot planting & shifting in the game is great. People seriously are starting to think that looks bad?
The bottom one floats pretty bad. The top right one not so much, but it's still noticeable.
The top left is DS1. It's alright, but it's definitely not as good as DS1's was.
On another note, I'm fucking sick of people trying to excuse the misleading bullshit by talking about the gameplay, I don't give a fuck about the motherfucking gameplay in a discussion about the visual downgrade and how FROM essentially lied to their fans. Motherfucker.
You're too old for this? Really confused by the reaction gif.
I can at least say that I'm a FROM fan (and since we're being fallacious in here, a pic to prove it), and am happy with the way Dark Souls 2 turned out.
I agree. If this thread is about how it was "handled" and the response, then maybe people should check themselves and how they "responded" in the first place.
Taking the angle that you've been lied to and deliberately deceived from the outset is enough to put anyone on the backfoot, and then people get even more upset when the other party adopts a defensive stance.
Then in an effort to unravel the mystery and proove wrongdoings, people cherrypick and bully and make hyperbolic comments to try and draw attention, making it even harder to make any sense of the real situation at hand.
How do you expect to be taken seriously when you make these kinds of crazy accusations and then go around calling people dicksuckers when all they're doing is trying to help others see the brightside? This industry isn't all doom and gloom, and games like DS2 show that some developers out there are sticking to their roots, even when paired with brash publishing and a less than ideal pipeline/timeframe.
I can understand the criticisms behind marketing of the game, as well as some aspects of the game itself, but sometimes people need to take a step back, get some perspective, and try to take a mature approach if these things mean so much to them.
Take the thread title for example. People are still confusing the developer (who had no idea about the backlash or the response made) and the publisher (who is responsible for all overseas PR). When From see the type of reactions they get from these very visible/outspoken fans, what do you think their reaction to the western market is?
HDgaming42
Member
Ha ha, to be fair I haven't enjoyed the program for a very long time, but I do feel the loss of Ryan Davis was worth commemorating.
Thanks for fleshing out your position a bit more. It's not that I think I couldn't enjoy the game, I just feel there is very little accountability in this world and small actions matter.
To each their own.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
Your definition of float is different than mine.
Unless their feet are hovering a few inches above the ground, they are not floating and the mocap is back in this game.
Youtube "Twinblade battles" if you want to see some good new mocap for Dark Souls 2.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
If only Namco and From hadn't deceived us all with their tech demo...
That's not representative of the whole game.
Undead Crypt, Grave of Saints, Undead Purgatory, The Gutter, Black Gulch & No-Man's Wharf look nothing like that & retain the lighting.
From Wiki,
Ad homimen: Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"
I think you meant it more as emphasis to your statement, but someone could read your post as you calling me a motherfucker.
Orthogonal
Member
It looks like he's moon-walking...
XANDER CAGE
Member
Those levels don't "retain" anything like that demo. The closest we see to anything like that is Dragon Eyrie/Dragon Shrine, which look incredible outdoors.
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
You are aware there are several threads about the actual game, right?
This is so bad.
also I'm so glad that I clicked on the link and saw this dude other "non Dark Souls" videos.
CadetMahoney
Member
Holy mother of christ. . .
will the geometry be superior on PC or will they just add basics like resolution, texture and framerate bumps but with the same angular obvious polygons everywhere?
PetriP-TNT
Member
Yeah, that part totally killed the feel of all the 4 seconds that you spend at that point getting the item and then returning. Fucking hacks at Scam Software should have spent more time optimizing the areas outside the playing area instead of ruining the game for everybody.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Lmao wake up dude and stop blindly defending. The gamma set ot high is not the reaosn that looks like a PS2 game. Its the geometry and textures.
No thats just one example in how the animations are are downgrade from previous games.
Yes and notice how their bodies and arms move side to side, they accelerate normally.
Some of you may think this is minor, I mean who cares about one enemies' animation. Well first its not just one enemy but the entire game's animations and secondly its one of the reason Dark and Demon Souls are so amazing. The animations gave a sense of weight and inertia, I mean look at this gif and see how the impact is transferred throughout the body:
lets try a real comparison. i just recorded these.
dark souls on left, dark souls II on right.
here's a video of both the walk and run animations.
The one on the right walks like a toddler.
You really think so? Read the OP and tell me how they think they made a mistake.
... This is the thing. All this is about now is peoples' voices being heard. Who can post the best comparison, who can make the funniest joke at the expense of the people bringing us the game.
Tl;dr: if you want to put pressure on devs/pubs to make a better game/be more honest with their product, then a) get your facts straight and b) don't take such an aggressive/destructive attitude.
lets try a real comparison. i just recorded these.
dark souls on left, dark souls II on right.
here's a video of both the walk and run animations.
Wow... The animation in DS1 is so much better. I really need to test this myself, 25. April cannot come fast enaugh!
PC is lead platform so..
.. only expect better resolution and framrate, and some higher rez textures.
Red Liquorice
Member
That does look like refried shit, but to be (a little bit) fair, and for anyone who hasn't played the game - this looks like the brightness has been really turned up so you can see the ass juice textures which are a background area you really don't see except for that one small part of the tutorial area - the rest of the level is on lower ground and walled in so you aren't looking at that.
There's plenty of this type of stuff in the other Souls games too. I was in the Shady ruins area the other day and looking down at a stream of water that looked like crap too and it reminded me how bad the Darkroot garden water looks in certain parts.
What erks me more than a few repeated textures in far off backgrounds are the bigger problems of sound design and general sound fuck-ups. There's a lot of out of sync sound effects in the game where you get delayed sound effects that throw you off. Added to this is the weightlessness of hit animations - at least on some enemies. When slashing at the giant guards in Heides Tower it seems there's no feedback of any kind so you have to look at the hit bar to see if the hit has connected rather than just knowing it has because of the sound/animation etc. It sloppy and not at all what I expected from Souls.
They make your eyes go elsewhere? come on man they are really close to you when you walk the bridge and they are pretty noticeable...it's definitely more noticeable and in your face than the Forest Of Fallen Giants spot (with the completely fucked up gamma) that's in the last few pages.
Also I think that many guys here that find DSII so inconsistent visual wise have to play or refresh their memories about the first game, if you want to nitpick you can easily can and call the first game inconsistent too...anyone remember the whole Sen's Fortress or Oolacile Township and the low res with no shaders at all repeated textures everywhere? how where the trees or ground textures in Royal Woods right before the Artorias fog gate? the bad textures and complete dull lighting in Kiln of the first flame? or how about the exterior areas of Duke's Archives and in particular the area which is right before Crystal Caves? and that excludes areas like Demon Ruins or Lost Izalith. Also the IQ in DS is a lot worse than DS2 which pushes ~200.000 pixels more making everything look much sharper than before.
After playing almost 80hrs of DSII I'd say that considering the amount of content I found the visual consistency very good while at the same time the IQ and frame-rate (at least on 360 which is 30fps+ almost 99% of the time) are much better than the first game.
Having played both versions I have to say that the sound delay problem has happened to me quite a few times on the PS3 version (60gb PS3 here) while on the 360 I haven't encountered any sound delay yet plus something's off with the audio mix on the PS3 version - sound is more balanced on the 360 version while on the PS3 version some sound effects for some reason are noticeably less loud/strong than others.
DrROBschiz
Member
Exactly
It just extends my point that this level of scrutiny applied to any other game reveals the same stuff
It sucks that Dark Souls 2 didn't end up more polished overall. Clearly there are some heavy departures in various levels of its development. It still is damn close to original games.
Which I guess isn't what we all really want. I never expected them to deliver anything significantly better looking (even though it was advertised as such) on the last gen consoles.
We clearly want better everything or at least something of the level of what was originally shown... which was a VERY SMALL slice of what turned out to be a monster of a game.
For the next game I really hope they reel things in a bit. Focus more on squeezing every but of quality and polish they can out of every area. Focus on details. Even if the game gets slightly smaller and shorter....
Haunted
Member
Well said.
oh manlets try a real comparison. i just recorded these.
dark souls on left, dark souls II on right.
here's a video of both the walk and run animations.
I can't believe all the talented animators have left the Souls team for DSII, so I think (hope?) there are plenty of cool animations in the game. Looking forward to Alo81 making another set of .gifs for these.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Well said.
oh man
I can't believe all the talented animators have left the Souls team for DSII, so I think (hope?) there are plenty of cool animations in the game. Looking forward to Alo81 making another set of .gifs for these.
They haven't left FROM. They are working with Miyazaki on his next title.
Demon Souls 2 believe!
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Reading a lot of the forums and youtube videos DS2 is definitely not as liked as DS2.
Personally I think this is the end for the Dark Souls franchise. The Souls franchise may continue but I think the lore and story of the Dark Souls universe is over. I mean the amount of stuff they reused this time around just shows how they have run out of ideas for that particular universe.
Dragon Souls perhaps
DrROBschiz
Member
Reading a lot of the forums and youtube videos DS2 is definitely not as liked as DS2.
Personally I think this is the end for the Dark Souls franchise. The Souls franchise may continue but I think the lore and story of the Dark Souls universe is over. I mean the amount of stuff they reused this time around just shows how they have run out of ideas for that particular universe.
Dragon Souls perhaps
I would love them to reinvent again for sure
Just to give us another fresh world. Would be great for a true current gen souls game. We are probably looking at 2-3 years off till the next one so....
Try to enjoy Dark Souls 2 lol. There is plenty of great stuff to offset the negatives. Despite what this thread implies.
Also I really hope they touch up the previous games and release a Current Gen Collection.
Dark Souls 2 is Demon's Souls 2. The tone and level structure are much more reminiscent of Demon's Souls than Dark Souls.
While I noticed it didn't look as smooth as the trailer, I just tumbled into this thread thinking WTF - People say dark souls II is ugly now?
It's not the prettiest game ever or something, but it's also not as awful as I read in these last 2 pages. It's ok, it's immersive enough, your character looks good most of the time and the boss fights/stages look impressive just like in the first game and demon's souls.
I can understand the PC crowd being underwhelmed, but for ps3/x360 this looks about what you'd expect. Not The Last Of Us or Beyond: Two Souls, but also not PS2'ish or even first generation ps3.
It's not the prettiest game ever or something, but it's also not as awful as I read in these last 2 pages. It's ok, it's immersive enough, your character looks good most of the time and the boss fights/stages look impressive just like in the first game and demon's souls.
I can understand the PC crowd being underwhelmed, but for ps3/x360 this looks about what you'd expect. Not The Last Of Us or Beyond: Two Souls, but also not PS2'ish or even first generation ps3.
Agree.
Thats some ME3 running animation. Why did they change this anyway? I noticed that DS2 had way worse movement animations than DS1. I dont understand why some devs downgrade the animations...
i'd love miyazaki to work on a souls game set in a different age. like modern-day or even some sort of post-apocalyptic stalker-esque game.
keeping the souls design ideals, just not the medieval setting. i'm not necessarily tired of it (and i haven't played dks2 yet) but i'd love to see what miyazaki would do with something different
keeping the souls design ideals, just not the medieval setting. i'm not necessarily tired of it (and i haven't played dks2 yet) but i'd love to see what miyazaki would do with something different
DrROBschiz
Member
New Engine, New Design team
Its not surprising that its different. Actually I am surprised at how close this game is to its predecessors considering how much changed behind the scenes
DrROBschiz
Member
This makes me feel bad for the artists who clearly had a strong vision for the lighting model
Its stange...
I wish I knew why they ended up backing away from the reveal target. I would have to have some intimate knowledge of the games development.
Dark Souls 2 is a very sizable game. I wonder if making the entire game with those levels of details was more work than they had time to put in.
Especially since that level of detail was never possible on last gen platforms. Maybe they figured the effort wasn't worth it. Doesn't make sense to pull out of that for the PC version which could clearly deliver those details.
Im guessing the development saw some massive shift to quickly cash in on the waning interest in last gen. They needed to get the game out to milk last gen before it was too late.
Who knows.... We may never know the real answers
Well, it obviously runs better and has a slightly higher res on consoles but in the end it sometimes look worse than DS2. If this was truly done with next gen in mind, they wouldnt held back the PC version. I guess some part of the team joined the Demons 2 train.
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