DarkMage619
$MSFT
Then you should know better. It's obvious the lawsuit is politically motivated.
The PC is in a different market. The Switch was never in a market by itself. That is what is bull.
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FTC Seeks to Block Microsoft Corp’s Acquisition of Activision Blizzard
- Thread starter kyliethicc
- Start date
Slicker than your average
Banned
Why do you clowns keep repeating this. Who have Sony been buying?I forgot when Sony buys devs or publishers it's organic growth, when Xbox does it, it is a crime against humanity.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
Don't forget it.I forgot when Sony buys devs or publishers it's organic growth, when Xbox does it, it is a crime against humanity.
Do you really not know?
PlayStation Studios - Wikipedia
kikii
Member
when ms purchased zenimax they got 8 studios on teh same day
Slicker than your average
Banned
Yeah as a reaction to zenimax.. if ms didn't start it, they wouldnt haveDo you really not know?
There’s 8 studios acquired in the last 2 years alonePlayStation Studios - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Sonik
Member
I'm actually pleasantly surprised Microsoft's embrace, extend, extinguish strategy isn't working this time.
Ever since they started pretending to be consumer friendly a few years ago I knew that the second stage of huge acquisitions was coming and voila, here it is. If this isn't stopped we'll have another repeat of the OS and other markets Microsoft has ruined with their monopolistic machinations.
Ever since they started pretending to be consumer friendly a few years ago I knew that the second stage of huge acquisitions was coming and voila, here it is. If this isn't stopped we'll have another repeat of the OS and other markets Microsoft has ruined with their monopolistic machinations.
Thirty7ven
Banned
It’s convenient to forget Sony bought studios not publishers, they bought teams not I.P.
Yes they bought Bungie, and that means Destiny. But they also announced them as an independent subsidiary that would keep making multiplatform games.
MS has been buying developers, publishers and above all historical IPs. Those who keep making false equivalences do so in bad faith.
Yes they bought Bungie, and that means Destiny. But they also announced them as an independent subsidiary that would keep making multiplatform games.
MS has been buying developers, publishers and above all historical IPs. Those who keep making false equivalences do so in bad faith.
for how long? Nothing legally binding unlike a 10 year contract.
They bought Bungie for their expertise in live service games. That talent will be pulled in for exclusive live service games, too, from Sony. Just like how Bluepoint was bought to not just work on games like Demon's Souls, but to support other studios like SSM.
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
Is fascinating to see how the same arguments (and the same "facts") make a comeback cyclically.
Menzies
Banned
Even for their own detriment?
They're happy to narrow markets to sub-markets to further create risks of monopolies, yet by their own determination to be extraordinarily granular, they have also created them by positioning Nintendo out on its' own(?).
So why the hyper-sensitivity and concern about the "high-performance, serious gamer"/consoles sub-market with Microsoft and Sony, where there is competition and serious competition for Microsoft; -
All whilst, they freely acknowledge and accept Nintendo in a field of their own with no competition in their sub-market isn't a problem?
DarkMage619
$MSFT
Yup it again shows how nonsensical the high performance console market is. The one with the high performance XSS amazingly. Even in a duopoly MS isn't the market leader so where is the monopoly fear coming from? Perhaps they should put a MS in a market all alone then it would be the monopoly so many fear. Nintendo's monopoly is also a major concern. Regulators need to do something!Even for their own detriment?
They're happy to narrow markets to sub-markets to further create risks of monopolies, yet by their own determination to be extraordinarily granular, they have also created them by positioning Nintendo out on its' own(?).
So why the hyper-sensitivity and concern about the "high-performance, serious gamer"/consoles sub-market with Microsoft and Sony, where there is competition and serious competition for Microsoft; -
All whilst, they freely acknowledge and accept Nintendo in a field of their own with no competition in their sub-market isn't a problem?
Thirty7ven
Banned
You can try gotcha all you want. Independent subsidiary with Bungie and Sony committing openly to multiplatform and the key here is that as long as Bungie wants multiplatform Sony won’t stand in its way.
Also you’re talking about a purchase half the size of Zenimax, with only one relevant and active IP.
Again I say, you want false equivalence and bad faith arguments? Keep at it.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
oh that was different.gif
in living color.
JLB
Banned
What a great argument. I think killers attempt on rials something in the lines of "Hey, yeah, I killer 20 idiots, but only because THAT OTHER GUY DID IT FIRST!"
CatLady
Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
Yeah, I think the DoJ should look at opening anticompetitive monopoly suits against both Sony and Nintendo.
The High-Performance video game console market now is a duopoly since the FTC decided to break up the video game console market and kicked Nintendo out due to inadequate pixels and FPS. Sony has over 60% of the High-Performance video game console market now.
Nintendo is just a straight up monopoly with 100% of the Not-High-Performance video game console market. Microsoft and Xbox are the only ones in either of the newly created markets that aren't trending towards a monopoly.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
And why is that funny? None of them have nearly as much to lose as Sony
wipeout364
Member
I am fine with the deal falling through, but the real tragedy is this means Activision blizzard will likely be moving to Epic/Tencent since the decision has been made to be acquired and they are the ones with the cash to pull it off.
They will likely be looking at merging epic game store and blizzard launcher. I do think Sony are being ridiculous though but they have to try to throw wrenches into the works as it’s their competition.
They will likely be looking at merging epic game store and blizzard launcher. I do think Sony are being ridiculous though but they have to try to throw wrenches into the works as it’s their competition.
Represent.
Banned
Good. It should be blocked.
Anyone if favor of this is quite frankly a clown, competition is good. If MS wants to compete, invest in the studios you already have, buy developers, not entire fucking publishers. That shit should be illegal.
Shame on anyone in support of this garbage.
Anyone if favor of this is quite frankly a clown, competition is good. If MS wants to compete, invest in the studios you already have, buy developers, not entire fucking publishers. That shit should be illegal.
Shame on anyone in support of this garbage.
DavJay
Member
They got way more to lose because those are the real competitors especially with cloud gaming and gaming subscriptions.
Sony is like that kid that is crying to mommy that the his rich next door neighbor got a bigger and better toy that he could only ever imagine buying.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
They don't compete in any cloud gaming or sub markets in any meaningful way, what are you talking about? Google just folded their efforts and FB is scaling back considerably.
supernova8
Banned
Xbox gave them a good run in the 360/PS3 days, it's not Sony's fault that Xbox exclusives seemed to dry up later on in the generation while Playstation was pumping them out left right and center. Honestly Xbox 360 should have won that generation. I certainly spent most of that generation on a 360 and only bought a PS3 later when it was dirt cheap and only to play a few exclusives like Killzone and Uncharted.
As for Japan, while I agree that the whole "no, I want made-in-Japan" is definitely a thing in Japan, I hope you'll agree that the original Xbox by itself (ie the size and weight of it, the gigantic unwieldy controllers) didn't do Microsoft any favors. Plus, Apple seems to be doing fine selling iPhones to Japanese people. Their sales to Japan are only a third of their sales to China despite China being a much bigger market.
Also, I'm not arguing that this acquisition would kill Sony or knock Sony off the top spot (and if that's what Sony is arguing then they are being facetious shitheads). I'm more arguing that Microsoft has had every opportunity to compete with Sony. They could have at least beaten Sony in all markets outside of Japan with the original Xbox, they could have kept a steady stream of exclusives for 360 to stop PS3 from catching up, they could have not fucked up completely with the Xbox One and forcing people to buy Kinect before backtracking. Honestly, with the absolutely mammoth PS5 (which I think is pretty damn ugly), I think Xbox could have done really well if it just had more exclusives ready to go at or around launch and that's before we even factor in Game Pass (which is a great deal despite how much people shit on it).
This is why I paint the picture of Microsoft essentially throwing up its hands and saying "fuck it we'll just buy the biggest publisher and then we can't possibly lose". Besides, we've seen hardly anything from all those other developers Xbox acquired so I'd say there's no guarantee that them acquiring ActiBliz is good for anyone. I would say Microsoft just doesn't "get it" but they got it with the 360 generation so it must be something else.
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Ronin_7
Member
It still should get blocked. Consolidation is a disaster at every level across any industry.
Anyone defending Consolidation at this point it's either a loser or has nothing to do in life.
Terrible examples of duopolies & monopolies in the past & present (Tech)
Android/IOS duopoly - Fortnite banned, hidden 30% fee on the internet, Apple & Google dictate how it's done and nobody can challenge.
Windows (90s, early 00s) - Forced MS Software like Office, Forced browser, terrible OS versions like 2000 or 8, terrible Browser experience on Internet Explorer.
PlayStation/Nintendo - increased prices on hardware All across Europe & others, Nintendo selling shitty hardware at almost 400$ and still selling out, PlayStation ripping off European & other users.
Microsoft is trying to have a monopoly in subscription services, it would never be a monopoly because SONY & Nintendo have strong libraries but still it would be a duopoly at best & should be avoided completely.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
MS at their best still came in 3rd. The only generation where Xbox wasn't 3rd was their entry into gaming when they beat the Gamecube. The size of the Xbox being the issue in Japan was largely bunk because the PS5 is just as large if not larger and its beating Xbox just like always.
I think the Activision purchase is being overblown as there are multiple reasons for that purchase and beating Sony doesn't appear to be the main reason. MS wants King to enter the mobile market. How does that hurt Sony? MS is allowing Activision to unionize and will address the sexual harassment issues in the company. I have not seen any other companies addressing these issues. Sony hasn't even mentioned all the other IP Activision has so why all the consternation?
It's obvious many different people will benefit from the acquisition and not just shareholders. I've already mentioned the employees of the company but anyone who would prefer to access these games via a subscription would also appreciate the changes. Nintendo would be getting CoD and they been denied for years.
The only company that might not benefit is Sony and I have not seen any evidence they are the embodiment of gaming that needs to be protected. They are the market leader and will be just fine no matter what. Of course that ignores they'll also be keeping CoD so even that isn't something that will hurt them. You think this will make Xbox more successful in Japan? It looks like Sony will still have an entire country to themselves no matter who MS buys.
There has not been one reasonable reason that MS should be blocked here. They aren't a monopoly, they aren't the market leader and they've offered the most valued IP to both Sony and Nintendo. This is an expansion on things currently.
OsirisBlack
Banned
I just touched on this exact subject in the other thread.
Whoever here thinks 10 years in gaming is a long time doesn't understand the video gaming market either. For reference, Xbox 1 was released 9 years ago.
Some of the opinions I'm reading are very short-sighted. Do you think Microsoft is dumb enough to not know what they are sitting on? Ten years is a brief moment in time when you can exclude "competition" in perpetuity after that ten-year period.
Banjo64
cumsessed
I don’t doubt that there would have political elements to whatever the FTC’s decision was - it’s America after all. I’m more interested in the CMA, being British. I do wonder where you’ve been getting your information from in regards to the UK/EU element.
Interesting case that may have some similarities to the one that the FTC would have to argue (if it gets that far)
May just be a poorly argued and evidence based case from Pistacchio or could be indicative of a larger issue.
I haven't seen anything similar out of the UK.
Pistacchio v. Apple Inc., Case No. 4:20-cv-07034-YGR | Casetext Search + Citator
Read Pistacchio v. Apple Inc., Case No. 4:20-cv-07034-YGR, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database
casetext.com
May just be a poorly argued and evidence based case from Pistacchio or could be indicative of a larger issue.
I haven't seen anything similar out of the UK.
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
And blocking the merger is a detriment to the market how
Expanding to submarkets is the opposite of narrowing. It's naking it wider. If you don't recognise the android OS market as its own submarket how are you supposed to make judgements to protect that submarket? You can't.
You're making no sense here. They have recognised there is serious competion for Microsoft. Identifying the submarket isn't an admission otherwise. Posting last gen numbers isn't going to go far when they have current gen numbers, on top of Satya bragging about being the best selling console consecutively.
You realise Nintendo isn't the one on trial here right? Whether they think it's a problem or not has no baring on this and is irrelevent.
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supernova8
Banned
Actually the Switch is decimating both the PS5 and Xbox Series consoles. Plus the Xbox Series consoles actually seem to be doing a lot better than previous generations. Hard to tell if it's because people gave up trying to get a PS5 and went for a Series S or if people genuinely like the Game Pass model.
They are arguably the only company in gaming financially capable of creating a monopoly through sheer buying power.
Cheezewizz
Banned
No. When someone is discussing the options consumers may or may not have as a result of the deal. You can't simply charge in, go on a rant about competition, and then continue to claim "it's all about competition". That would be like me asking you if you thought the quality of CoD would remain after an acquisition. Only for some other jump in posting about "it's about the competition." Your original reply wasn't on point.
Everything else you wrote in this paragraph is nullified by the fact that MS did no such thing. MS promised to make the franchise available on more platforms than it is currently, as well as on those platforms where it currently exists. THAT INCLUDES IT'S MAIN COMPETITOR.
The EU regulators approved MS's purchase of Bethesda with no restrictions, and as such. MS were free to do what they wanted to with Bethesda's games. At this point since that acquisition. Those studios that were acquired during that deal have released as of now a total of two games. Both of which had already been moneyhatted by Sony to be Playstation timed exclusives. Microsoft honored both of those deals. All three console manufacturers are companies who's primary goal is profit and revenue. As such, none of them are "nasty". They simply just serve their intended purpose.
Overall, MS is significantly more successful than Amazon both financially as well as stability. Why would MS be trying to emulate Amazon on anything other than cloud services, and even there Azure is outgrowing AMS by quite a bit.
Of course all these things need to be considered. As far as monopolistic practices goes though, the overall company's size isn't much of a significant factor. MS is considerably larger than Sony and Nintendo overall. That doesn't make them a monopoly in the gaming market, because in that specific market they are the 3rd largest console manufacturer. As to how MS might behave should it become a market leader only factors into it to the extent that it might behave compared to the current market leaders. At the end of the day, someone has to be the market leader. You can't simply block any move that MS might make because you're concerned that MS might upset the status quo.
bluecowboys
Banned
The games are still going to be on PS, Nintendo, Steam, and Xbox. No one is losing out on games that they are already getting. Sony is just upset that COD is going to be on game pass in a few years which will attract a lot of people to xbox and hurt Sony's revenue stream. Tough shit, government agencies aren't here to protect a company's revenue. They are here to protect the consumers.
Offering games to more platforms and for a cheaper price is not anti consumer at all.
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bluecowboys
Banned
PC is not a different market anymore. They are defiantly competiting and stealing a lot of customers away from consoles. So much so, that Sony is releasing their games on PC at this point. This isn't the 6th or even 7th generation of consoles. Consoles are just closed off PCs.
A little bit of a side track, but I wouldn't be surprise if Sony or Microsoft start releasing games for their competitors console after a few years. It isn't like Halo Infinite or God of war is going to keep selling your console forever. AAA games are so expensive to make now days, you want to do what ever it takes to ensure they turn in a profit so you can invest into more AAA games.
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SoloKingRobert
Banned
DryvBy
Gold Member
There isn't one good argument for this merger outside of tribalism. Good for consumers? Only Microsoft consumers. Good for gamers? Only Microsoft gamers. "But there's a 10 year deal!" isn't a valid reason. That number has changed already for PlayStation as MS fans and Phil has stated COD was going to be on PS as long as there's a PS, not its 10 years. And that's just the verbal PR they spew, just like Bethesda was going to be a "we'll decide on which games" and then they yanked ES and Starfield away.
Here's a thought for the people that think MS will help Activision: why not use the 30 other studios they own already to actually make games?
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
If the deal doesn't go through, it's very likely Activision comes out of it a much worse position. If they are broken apart, then it will be a free for all for anyone to bid on it's parts.
Solidus_T
Banned
If the deal fails, Activision gets paid $3 billion for free - hardly a "much worse position"
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
They have a lot worse situations, including numerous other lawsuits, besides the acquisition to worry about as well.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
This is complete and utter bollocks.
The real value in the $70b MS wants to pay for ACTIBLZD is in the IP value of the gaming franchises and their brand value. If MS were to buy up all their studios without access to the IP, they'd be paying less than $1bn.
Building as many studios isn't nearly as expensive as $70bn. So you calling folks out for not understanding business while making such an eye-wateringly absurd claim is hilariously ironic.
The only major cost for studio generation and nurturing is in time and project investment.
MS attempted this multiple times over the past two gens, i.e. building out new studios, and for many reasons, those new studios ended up collapsing. There's just something wrong structurally with Xbox's studio management.
So in light of that, they went with the next best thing, which was buying existing studios. That's the major reason they're making acquisitions over building new studios. They recognize that they have a studio management structure that is toxic to fostering talent and building top-tier games. So instead they look to buy entire publishers, so as to retain those publishers' studio management structures, processes and culture.
It's easy to understand why they're doing this. Does it make it good for the industry, though? It certainly doesn't.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
From their public preliminary statements. Comments from current employees but former competition regulators speaking about protecting PlayStation doesn't exactly lend itself to neutrality.
MS previously stated that PC is a separate market. So they couldn't argue now that it is the same. Besides PCs are hardware agnostic and are open platforms. Consoles are fixed hardware and usually closed platforms. It is usually an agreed upon fact.
I don't see any platform holder doing multi-platform titles outside of MS. Sony and Nintendo remain traditional in the sense of keeping exclusives exclusive and removing incentives to going to other platforms.
This deal is good for Activision employees who want improved working conditions and Nintendo gamers who have been denied Activision titles for years. It's also good for anyone who wants to play Activision games on a subscription service. Tribalism has nothing to do with it.
Banjo64
cumsessed
ChorizoPicozo
Member
drganon
Member
Guys who were real sure this would pass without a hitch sure are huffing alot of copium.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Lmao at the Hoeg guy having to backpedal, you’re supposed to be a lawyer mate but you can’t even read? Go dance for coins in some bath tub on twitch live stream.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
Hey it wasn't me talking about keeping CoD on 'my PlayStation'. If you are involved in regulatory work one should at least appear neutral. We'll see what the final conclusions are.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
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