ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
duckroll said:
:lol
Overreaction total.
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Fullmetal Alchemist - Brotherhood Official Discussion Thread
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:lol
Overreaction total.
Andrex said:
It's not really an overreaction. Like I said, the series is not a success in Japan at all. It likely won't be anywhere as successful as the original series in the US either, especially with the declining anime industry. The ratings for FMA:B are so bad in Japan it's not even funny. The DVD and blu-ray COMBINED sales per volume is about 10k now, a fraction of what each volume of the original FMA did on DVD alone.
You might enjoy it because it's a free download and it's just a 20 minute time investment every week, but don't try to pretend that the series is anywhere close to being either a critical or commercial success. It's not. There's more marketing being put behind this series than most mainstream shows, and it's doing jack shit for it. It's a -failure-.
How? you are complaining on the pacing and then say that they got it right the first time?duckroll said:
I will agree with soundtrack, cause original anime had an incredible one, but other factors, no.
I'm not even going to whine about the ending, annoying Wrath, the movie and so on.
But the pacing in the first series is HORRIBLE. I remember trying to get some of my friends into FMA. They couldn't make it through the first episodes. It constantly drags on and on. Half of the episodes in first season are fillers. Lots of unnecessary stuff that only slows down the story. Briggs might have had bad pacing, but it's still nothing compared to beginning of original anime. It was SO bad.
Yeah, uh, Greed arc in the manga had a rather lengthy chase/ fight scene with Al and the chimeras before he got captured, TONS of dialogue between al, greed, and the chimeras that was cut, and a whole side arc with Ed going to south HQ and running into Armstrong and Bradley that was cut (in other words, they don't just stumble upon devil's nest).CassSept said:
Could have been another episode or two, easily.
Characters are just more fleshed out and the story flows better in the manga. They're basically going to be doing 1-1.25 chapters per ep from here on out, in the most action-packed arc of the series, after often covering 3-4 chapters of dialogue and character-heavy material earlier on.
Just really, really bad decision making and directing, and while I'm glad the final arc is going to get a sweet amount of attention, the fact remains that the characters were neglected in favor of the story, especially early on, and the show suffers because of it.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
duckroll said:It's not really an overreaction. Like I said, the series is not a success in Japan at all. It likely won't be anywhere as successful as the original series in the US either, especially with the declining anime industry. The ratings for FMA:B are so bad in Japan it's not even funny. The DVD and blu-ray COMBINED sales per volume is about 10k now, a fraction of what each volume of the original FMA did on DVD alone.
You might enjoy it because it's a free download and it's just a 20 minute time investment every week, but don't try to pretend that the series is anywhere close to being either a critical or commercial success. It's not. There's more marketing being put behind this series than most mainstream shows, and it's doing jack shit for it. It's a -failure-.
Wasn't really talking about commercial reception. I like it.
Edit- And even if pacing was smoothed 100% do you think sales would be that much better?
gundamkyoukai
Member
duckroll said:It's not really an overreaction. Like I said, the series is not a success in Japan at all. It likely won't be anywhere as successful as the original series in the US either, especially with the declining anime industry. The ratings for FMA:B are so bad in Japan it's not even funny. The DVD and blu-ray COMBINED sales per volume is about 10k now, a fraction of what each volume of the original FMA did on DVD alone.
You might enjoy it because it's a free download and it's just a 20 minute time investment every week, but don't try to pretend that the series is anywhere close to being either a critical or commercial success. It's not. There's more marketing being put behind this series than most mainstream shows, and it's doing jack shit for it. It's a -failure-.
While i still like the series , if Bones knew they were going to do 63 eps . I don't get why went threw first part of the series so fast , now they slow down allot. They could have used some of early eps to pace the series better .
I'd like to say they didn't at first, and only got the go-ahead for 63 eps instead of 52 eps well into production, but I think I'd be giving the director too much credit there.gundamkyoukai said:
Most likely they figured they should rush through the first 25%-33% of the manga as quickly as possible before they lost too many viewers who figured they'd seen it all before, but in the process all they did was alienate all the die-hard manga fans who were looking forward to seeing the manga get a proper anime adaptation.
Andrex said:
Yeah YOU like it. That's fine. It doesn't mean people who find it extremely flawed are "overreacting" since the series in general is not popular. Being a mainstream action series, if it's not popular there are clearly problems with it, especially when the original series was so much more popular.
And yes, if the series didn't turn audiences off completely, it would certainly have much better sales. After all, the manga still sells very well, and when the original series was re-released as a big DVD box set shortly before the launch of the new series on TV, it sold pretty damn well for a 6 year old series in a big expensive box set. Japan doesn't hate FMA, Japan just hates FMA:B.
Edit: And I just found the ratings for March 1 - march 7th
*3.7%(*2.8%) 03/07 17:00-17:30 TBS FULLMETAL ALCHEMIST
Basically, Brotherhood fluxuates between a 2.5% and a 4.0%, but usually on the lower end of the spectrum, in the 2.5-3.2% range.
There have been a handful of episodes which ahve been a 4.8 or a 4.9. To put it in perspective, I just did a quick glance, and less than 10 episodes from FMA1 had a rating under 5. Many many many of the episodes were in the 6.5-8+ range
If you are going to compare the first series with Brotherhood, let's just stick with the anime and keep the manga out of it. In terms of content, character development and depth, Brotherhood wins hands down, even if it is a poor adaptation of the original material. I think a lot of these people already prove that, without knowledge of the manga, they much prefer Brotherhood. Looking solely at the rating is shortsighted and meaningless, because there are so many factors that are working against the 2nd series.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
That's too bad. As someone just watching the show itself, I think it's great... but I guess there's just too much baggage.
Great episode, I'm so glad that the manga is finally wrapping up, as it's easily the best shounen I've ever read or watched.
I don't have any image editing skills at all, but I thought that 17:48-17:51 from episode 47 just screams "Banned", "Permabanned", if anyone feels like making it.
I don't have any image editing skills at all, but I thought that 17:48-17:51 from episode 47 just screams "Banned", "Permabanned", if anyone feels like making it.
so I saw last night's episode (ep. 5), and I couldn't help but think "I like Scar's red sparks better" (the ones from the first series).
shame to see the series not doing so well. especially hearing how much better it is than the first series (aside from the first several episodes). I guess if you are going to do an adaptation, you do it right the first time, even if I loved the original series. ending and all (not the movie though).
shame to see the series not doing so well. especially hearing how much better it is than the first series (aside from the first several episodes). I guess if you are going to do an adaptation, you do it right the first time, even if I loved the original series. ending and all (not the movie though).
Metalic Sand
who is Emo-Beas?
zero_suit said:
Yup, Anyone who thinks the first is better is crazy.
being a huge fan of the original, After watching brotherhood it really makes the first look like shit. Cant believe i liked it so much.
duckroll said:
They have horrible taste. Much like all that MOE anime.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Kinosen said:
I'll give it a crack later. I've recently activated my long-dormant GIF making skillz.
Obviously anyone still watching the series after 47 episodes is probably going to think that Brotherhood is better than the original anime. That doesn't make it fact. I can just as easily say that even more people have decided to simply stop watching Brotherhood because they considered it worse than the original anime. It doesn't change the fact that Brotherhood is seriously under performing both in ratings and in sales. It's easy to call people who don't like the show "crazy" or having "poor taste" or whatever. It's much harder to make people agree enough to turn the show into a success.
So basically, you can all just continue making fun of people who don't like the show, or putting them down, and I'll continue making fun of how the show is a commercial disaster. Oh and since everyone here is so "supportive" of the show. I wonder how it is that so many people here who don't even live in Japan are somehow watching the latest episode so quickly, before FUNimation even puts out the new episode on their site. It is a sad day when I have to argue about the quality of a show with "fans" who choose to pirate it instead. :lol
So basically, you can all just continue making fun of people who don't like the show, or putting them down, and I'll continue making fun of how the show is a commercial disaster. Oh and since everyone here is so "supportive" of the show. I wonder how it is that so many people here who don't even live in Japan are somehow watching the latest episode so quickly, before FUNimation even puts out the new episode on their site. It is a sad day when I have to argue about the quality of a show with "fans" who choose to pirate it instead. :lol
duckroll said:
Huh? I think you're coming up with something different from what I said. I didn't talk about why folks aren't watching it, I talked about how it's not that important to fans of the work how many folks are watching it, or at least it shouldn't be that important.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
duckroll said:
For some reason this post gave me serious deja vu. Hrm.
duckroll said:
So ratings = quailty?
Could it be that the show is doing poorly in Japan because they pumped another version of the anime out just a few years after the first. Perhaps people thought the first one was such shit that they never gave the second a try? Or they watched the first few episodes of the new anime and figured it was just a retread of what they had already seen and moved on?
I don't get why the ratings in Japan should be some sort of barometer of whether or not we should be enjoying the series or think it is better than the original.
I mean, is Two and a Half Men a better show than Arrested Development?
StoOgE said:
I never said it was. I said it was an indication that it is clearly not some sort of universal opinion that the series is well loved or considered by most people to be better than the original. It simply isn't true, and calling anyone who disagrees "crazy" just makes it funnier... and sadder.
SecretBonusPoint
Banned
Sales-Age in an anime thread... the infection..
At the end of the day, this series is better simply due to all the awesome Fuhrer Bradley battles so far and the even more awesome ones to come!
At the end of the day, this series is better simply due to all the awesome Fuhrer Bradley battles so far and the even more awesome ones to come!
duckroll said:
It's just...seems like you're trolling your own thread. I mean, all you're doing is pissing off people who like the show. I know that the original series did a lot of good things and that Brotherhood kind of dropped the ball at the beginning, but I don't get why you're so aggressively trying to convince us that it's a bad show. Do you think that we shouldn't like the show? Should we stop watching?
pirata said:
I don't see why I am allowed to post negative comments about the show. Does me shitting on the show make you like the show less? Why does it piss you off? Am I telling anyone here to not watch the show or to stop liking it? It seems to be the reverse: I'm shitting on the show, and everyone is trying to defend the show and convince me that I am wrong. I'm not convincing anyone here that it is a bad show, I am simply stating my opinion that it is a bad show.
StoOgE said:
Yeah, it's far more entertaining than this piece of shit, that's for sure.
You asked for it, you opened the box which cannot be closed now.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Scar's change was kinda weird. He went from this pseudo-mastermind in the original anime to some lumbering bafoonish angry guy character in Brotherhood.
IMO of course.
IMO of course.
duckroll said:
No, I don't have any problem with you voicing your opinion. It's just that you're doing it so aggressively and incessantly. It's like going into the Lost thread and posting "lol Lost is so terrible, so many people agree with me, all of you people are idiots for liking it lol" and then posting stuff like that over and over. You're more articulate with your opinions, of course, and I agree that the series has some serious flaws (I can't stand how they did Lior in Brotherhood, for example), but at this point, it's like you've gone a little overboard.
Brotherhood isn't a piece of shit (at least in my humble opinion). It drops the ball on numerous occasions (first dozen or so episodes are way too fast, the abridged Ishval arc is disappointing, and the "comic relief" moments don't translate very well from the manga), but is still worth watching, especially since it now seems that the final arc is going to be handled quite well (at least, from what we've seen of it so far, which is, admittedly, not very much) and because of the recent drought in quality anime
Yes, Duckroll, it's quality. It has some great animation, it's based on great source material, regardless of how well you feel that they've adapted it, and it ain't "Moegirl: My Sailor Uniform is Wrinkled so I got to Hug you/eat sweets II: It's Straight-up KAWAII TAIMMU," which is more than one can say about the vast majority of the shit that Japan pumps out these days
Oh, and Duckroll, I know this probably isn't the best time to ask you this, what with this on-going argument and everything, but could you please update the OP? It's been about a year now, and it could use some information about the dub and the new episode limit. And maybe the Hohenheim "You Mad?" image as an additional key visual.
Edit: I've been watching it on Adult Swim too. Not everyone who likes the series is a swashbuckling pirate-loving bastard.
Andrex said:
but that is who Scar is. I mean, it's his brothers arm or whatever that gives him his power. Not his own. He isn't some bad ass super smart alchemist. He is a priest who is pissed off that the government killed his own people and he is just out scheming to get even for the most part.
pirata said:
Believe it or not, that does happen (almost) every week! We mostly deal with it... some of us don't deal with it as well as others! :lol
Yeah, you're probably right. I've been dying in Zettai Hero a lot and I'm using FMA:B as a punching bag! ^^;
No, I haven't watched a full episode since the middle of the series. After they used CG to create monster Envy I got pretty turned off and stopped watching for good. I've seen clips of a few of the well animated fights or effects in recent episodes though, just to see how they adapted certain sequences from the manga. I'm just not interested enough to actually continue following the show.
Okay, I'll see what I can do about it. I'm not sure if the dubbies have actually started their own thread though, after the last round of discussion about spoilers. If anyone has a dub cast list handy, and the time/day it airs on Adult Swim, I'll throw that up on the OP too.
duckroll said:
Then why the hell are you complaining about the pace in the second half of the series (that was you, right?)?
....whatever.
--------
Anyway, here's the cast:
http://blog.funimation.com/2009/09/fullmetal-alchemist-brotherhood-cast-announcements/
And the show airs on AS at 11 Central on Saturdays. That's midnight eastern, right?
EDIT: And here's the image I was talking about:
Duckroll:
They did envy hand drawn in his fight with marcoh, at least.
The beginning of the Briggs arc was a little rough around the edges, but everything since ~ep 35 (save for the way they handled the Pride reveal) has been great.
Oh, and for your own safety, I suggest you skip episode 30 (the ishval ep). You'll just have an aneurysm seeing how much they butchered it. I know I did :lol
They did envy hand drawn in his fight with marcoh, at least.
The beginning of the Briggs arc was a little rough around the edges, but everything since ~ep 35 (save for the way they handled the Pride reveal) has been great.
Oh, and for your own safety, I suggest you skip episode 30 (the ishval ep). You'll just have an aneurysm seeing how much they butchered it. I know I did :lol
In some ways I agree with duckroll, in others I don't. I'm kind of in a unique minority.
I don't think Brotherhood is great. I don't think it's terrible either. I'm still watching and it's an enjoyable show. But enjoyable on the level of say Naruto or Bleach anime. Aka, outside of the plot, the animation itself is terribly generic.
Anyhow that's not why I'm in a minority. A lot of people dislike Brotherhood because they think it does a poor job at bringing the manga to screen in a way that does it justice. I disagree, I think the manga isn't very good in the first place and that along with the lack of good direction makes the show very average and forgettable.
There are a couple of things Bones did with the original series that elevates it into one of the top10 anime of all time:*
1) Mizushima. While Mizushima did direct the terrible Gundam OO S2, outside of that Mizushima has proven himself several times that he is an incredibly talented director with a great sense of unique style and overall plot direction.
There is absolutely nothing in the new anime that compares to the Ed vs. Greed fight in the original FMA series. That fight oozed with style and had incredible animation. Same thing with Ed vs. Wrath in the finale, or Mustang vs. Pride with snap snap snap snap snap after the horrible gut-wrenching death of Selim. Then the way he directed Ishval, and finally the finale. The last episode of the show was one of the greatest anime episodes ever made and was 100% original material.
Which leads to the other aspect,
2) The original story. Personally, I think FMA is the most overrated manga in history. It had a fantastic premise, great characters, but after about 70% in (around Briggs) the plot got really dumb, generic, and wasted the opportunity of having all these great characters. It forgot some characters it had built up even existed and ditched all the interesting setups of main mysteries left in the plot with boring or non-answers. Now there's still 3 chapters left, so maybe it will change things around, but as of now I think the manga is a failure similar to 21st Century Boys. Great setup, exciting read, but can't close the deal and deliver a good finish. I actually find FMA worse because it setups up a huge complex epic story, and ends up being a really simple short story that only took so many years to finish because of the slow monthly releases and padding.
Sure the anime plot has some BAD SHIT like ROBOMAN or lame Wrath and Sloth. But the way Bones took the mystery of the door and alchemy and the build up of characters like Scar, Mustang, etc...and wrote their own story was fantastic. They created a deep and interesting tale with an extremely satisfying finale (let's not talk about the movie version; the movie was plain terrible.), the endgame twist of linking it to the real world worked very well. Yes, the anime had pacing issues for the first 15 or so eps, but for the bulk of the show it was well paced and even some of the later episodic filler like the Lust village trip ep were good.
So without a great director at the helm and stuck to a plot that is less than stellar, brotherhood really never had a chance to be anything more than an "ok" show. Like the manga, it's entertaining but ultimately an empty experience.
*According to gaf best anime thread
I don't think Brotherhood is great. I don't think it's terrible either. I'm still watching and it's an enjoyable show. But enjoyable on the level of say Naruto or Bleach anime. Aka, outside of the plot, the animation itself is terribly generic.
Anyhow that's not why I'm in a minority. A lot of people dislike Brotherhood because they think it does a poor job at bringing the manga to screen in a way that does it justice. I disagree, I think the manga isn't very good in the first place and that along with the lack of good direction makes the show very average and forgettable.
There are a couple of things Bones did with the original series that elevates it into one of the top10 anime of all time:*
1) Mizushima. While Mizushima did direct the terrible Gundam OO S2, outside of that Mizushima has proven himself several times that he is an incredibly talented director with a great sense of unique style and overall plot direction.
There is absolutely nothing in the new anime that compares to the Ed vs. Greed fight in the original FMA series. That fight oozed with style and had incredible animation. Same thing with Ed vs. Wrath in the finale, or Mustang vs. Pride with snap snap snap snap snap after the horrible gut-wrenching death of Selim. Then the way he directed Ishval, and finally the finale. The last episode of the show was one of the greatest anime episodes ever made and was 100% original material.
Which leads to the other aspect,
2) The original story. Personally, I think FMA is the most overrated manga in history. It had a fantastic premise, great characters, but after about 70% in (around Briggs) the plot got really dumb, generic, and wasted the opportunity of having all these great characters. It forgot some characters it had built up even existed and ditched all the interesting setups of main mysteries left in the plot with boring or non-answers. Now there's still 3 chapters left, so maybe it will change things around, but as of now I think the manga is a failure similar to 21st Century Boys. Great setup, exciting read, but can't close the deal and deliver a good finish. I actually find FMA worse because it setups up a huge complex epic story, and ends up being a really simple short story that only took so many years to finish because of the slow monthly releases and padding.
Sure the anime plot has some BAD SHIT like ROBOMAN or lame Wrath and Sloth. But the way Bones took the mystery of the door and alchemy and the build up of characters like Scar, Mustang, etc...and wrote their own story was fantastic. They created a deep and interesting tale with an extremely satisfying finale (let's not talk about the movie version; the movie was plain terrible.), the endgame twist of linking it to the real world worked very well. Yes, the anime had pacing issues for the first 15 or so eps, but for the bulk of the show it was well paced and even some of the later episodic filler like the Lust village trip ep were good.
So without a great director at the helm and stuck to a plot that is less than stellar, brotherhood really never had a chance to be anything more than an "ok" show. Like the manga, it's entertaining but ultimately an empty experience.
*According to gaf best anime thread
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Bebpo said:
That's like the opposite of Bleach...
Not that Bleach has great animation either. XD
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Saw you on the IRC last night Gaime. Wanted to say "Semper five mofos!" or something but I was too caught up in SoulSilver...
@ grandjedi What was the "wow" moment in this ep that made you stop reading the manga? It was a great ep, but I didn't think there were any standout "wow" moments.
Next episode looks epic.
Wanted to say "Semper five mofos!" or something but I was too caught up in SoulSilver...@ grandjedi What was the "wow" moment in this ep that made you stop reading the manga? It was a great ep, but I didn't think there were any standout "wow" moments.
Next episode looks epic.
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