Yes, and I'll never do it again.
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GAF Indie Game Development Thread 2: High Res Work for Low Res Pay
- Thread starter Jacksinthe
- Start date
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Yes, and I'll never do it again.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Have you considered a more "Western" style of pixelart for your combat scenes than the JRPG style you currently have?
I think it might mesh better with your strategic scene?
Something like the Eitr / Superbrothers: sword & Sorcery EP / Riot / Gods Will be Watching style
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
I haven't, but I'll definitely look into it now. That, or maybe a more vector-art, hand-drawn look.
Another complication is that each unit sprite is made up of individual bits (head, armor, weapon, etc.) that can all be customized, so I'll have to make sure that whatever art style I go with can support that and still animate well.
BomberMouse
Member
Maybe, but there are other issues. You text is not centered. And they protrude in a way the rest of you UI doesn't, they also have some lighting the rest of your UI doesn't.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
brah,
i can already tell this is going to be a great game. it feels so tight that even getting slight meatboy vibes, and everything animates so smoothly, very nicely done. the wall jump isn't my cup of tea, since i would intuitively press the analog towards the wall im latched to and then press jump if i wanted to get on top of the platform im hanging on to, but i'd bet that you're probably still experimenting with that stuff.
the boomerang shots were interesting to play with.
the way the shots blow up into pixel residue is great too.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Something like the Dragon Age flash game?
A vectorial style would definitely make swapping 'people components' around and keeping the same animsets easier.
I'm suggesting a Western-CRPG type aesthetic mainly because there's a disconnect between my expectations of how the game will look from the first screen (which screams PC strategy game and tabletop roots, with high information density graphics) and the battle screens which look like - and in the nicest possible way - an RPG Maker tutorial project.
There's an incongruity there I think, rather than there actually being anything inherently wrong with the art.
It seems to work mostly fine but there's some issue with the frame that's getting called (the draw event calls frame -1 or whatever the current frame is, but if you switch into an attack state it seems to call the very last frame of the animation first... hmmm.)
i guess i'll poke at it when I get home.
liliththepale
Banned
That's bizarre. Are you sure you're not changing image_index instead of image_xscale? If you set image_index to -1, GM just plays the animation at room speed regardless.
oh, sorry, I meant in the draw_ext event - one of the arguments is the image index you need to set it to. In terms of reversing the sprite it works fine, just... as far as I can tell it seems to be calling the last few frames of the animation first or something. I'll post a gif when I get time.
looks durn pretty though
I'm beginning to get the feeling it'd just be easier to image_xscale it though
/edit by the way, is your avatar just getting steadily more and more batshit crazy?
Jacksinthe
Banned
Ehhhhh these are two very different things. Tedius "you can jump that" tutorials aren't "here's a sword, good luck" style of letting the player loose. Souls is also one of those series that took off more by word of mouth so most people went in loaded with info. My metric for hand holding is pretty extreme, though, so I consider something like souls pretty straight forward. Not a lot of gear, very linear (in terms of direction), built for exploration and trial and error.
Thanks for the feedback dude. I hear you on the wall jump. Thats one thing I haven't been able to get a consensus on ha! Definitely in flux even now.
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
Really appreciate the feedback, thanks.
You're pretty apt with the RPG Maker comparison BTW...the two backgrounds shown are placeholders from a Final Fantasy PSP port. I was using them as possible target graphics but as you say, there's a bunch of incongruities.
spazchicken
Member
For anyone who cares, after the KS we tore down what we had of Red Cobra and build it back up in Unreal 4 while learning the engine. It's coming along and still happening.
Old gif from the trailer.
ken_matthews
Member
Updated our motion capture solution. I added a second Kinect to get full 360 captures...works flawlessly and produces a much better / almost entirely clean animation file right out of the capture software.
Stencyl's a good introduction to game making and game logic/programming concepts. It's how I started. I went into it knowing almost nothing.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
3.01ghz Core 2 Duo
2gb of DDR2 SD RAM
Radeon HD 6870 (1gb)
And...
Windows XP Home Service Pack 3
I'm stranded on this stuff for the foreseeable future. I could technically upgrade Windows, but there was a whole rigamarole with video capture drivers that I needed (and probably still need), so I'm in this kind of weird position where I'm trying to save up money and it's going really, really, really slowly.
Glad to see you back!For anyone who cares, after the KS we tore down what we had of Red Cobra and build it back up in Unreal 4 while learning the engine. It's coming along and still happening.
Old gif from the trailer.
How's the transition to UE4 been so far, any specific issues? I've really started to develop a love/hate relationship with it lately, mostly due to some really annoying issues and the feeling of pressure, but I'll be meeting with some guys from epic at GDC EU to give some more of our feedback and ask about some of the issues we've been facing. Their support has still been pretty awesome, just sucks that writing some of the issues on to answerhub feels like such a chore for all of us.
Some riveting action gameplay...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1dWOIaqIpg&feature=youtu.be
First, you see there's a cheeky secret room.
Next, I wanted to make a room where the floor was largely obstructed about waist high, so I could -- well, you'll see. It's just always a challenge trying to make sure the user has a good idea where they can stand. I helped supplement this with a blue soft line, and glowing dots (which is a re-occuring thing in this game)
To explain what's going on in the secret room, there's a green barrier blocking the way to the power ups, and the only way to break it is to have some "gas"... And the only nearby gas source is that big hopper enemy, which leaks gas when you down it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1dWOIaqIpg&feature=youtu.be
First, you see there's a cheeky secret room.
Next, I wanted to make a room where the floor was largely obstructed about waist high, so I could -- well, you'll see. It's just always a challenge trying to make sure the user has a good idea where they can stand. I helped supplement this with a blue soft line, and glowing dots (which is a re-occuring thing in this game)
To explain what's going on in the secret room, there's a green barrier blocking the way to the power ups, and the only way to break it is to have some "gas"... And the only nearby gas source is that big hopper enemy, which leaks gas when you down it.
That level up sound is real familiar. Everquest...?
Fair enough. Maybe there'll be a better time for that later on though, so I'll leave my proposal hanging in the air :v (GOTO: answer below)
Not much more to tell than broad concepts for now, unfortunately. Hope I'll get the chance to develop them further after Honey's done, or as basis for smaller jams! (GOTO: answer above)
Just tried it, whoa, it's very slick! Movement feels fluid all around, and I like the visual feedback from shooting/hitting. Didn't encounter many issues with the jumpguys AI, but maybe I'm just not a very good tester :-D
The one thing that stuck out is, as it happens, the sticking on walls. I usually like this sort of mechanic to allow for some time to think/react before your next jump, or to add more physicality to the environment, but here, it feels like surfaces are tapered with glue and you're the fly. I'd expect the character to start gliding downwards after a little while, ultimately detaching from the surface if you leave it too long, but it didn't seem to happen - at least, not in the timely fashion I'd expect. Otherwise though, feeling good!
For anyone who cares, after the KS we tore down what we had of Red Cobra and build it back up in Unreal 4 while learning the engine. It's coming along and still happening.
Old gif from the trailer.
This looks NICE.
Indeed, there's everything you need in that bundle to get you started - more than you need, in fact.
I'd advocate Construct 2 in parallel to Stencyl, but it's not in the bundle, so it may be easier to pull the trigger on the bundle and check out Stencyl first. Construct 2 is all kinds of awesome, though, if you don't mind the main flaw/limitation of it being HTML5 based, meaning anything past PC is probably a no-go, or at least much, much more work and planning!
Hey everyone! So I'm making a "Dynamic Grand Strategy" game; think Europa Universalis 4 except with a lot more procedural generation, and with tactical combat inspired by Advance Wars.
You can read a bit about it here: www.victorsandvanquished.com
Anyways, I have a problem. I'm not intending my game to be super-attractive; in fact, it'll be downright ugly in many cases. I'm hoping that the depth and quality of gameplay will make up for that, like it did with, say, Rimworld.
Given that, and my tiny art budget, I'm reasonably satisfied with how my strategic gameplay graphics are progressing. However, I'm not happy with my tactical battle graphics. I'm very torn on what art style to go with, how to lay out the screen, and how to spice things up in general. I was hoping to get suggestions from you!
Here's an example of the strategic map graphics (the ones I'm reasonably happy with--but feel free to tell me if they're not acceptable):
Now, the graphics I have a problem with (used in combat...also note that the backgrounds are placeholders, but the final versions will probably be similar):
Here are closeups of some sprites. I think they look fine in isolation, but they're not cohesive with the rest of the game:
Or maybe I'm just using them wrong...in combat, they're clustered together (in units) and are pretty small.
I'd greatly appreciate any feedback and suggestions! And be as cruel and blunt as necessary!
Some of the suggestions above cover my own personal feelings, but no matter the art style you eventually settle on, one of the things to keep an eye out for is the screen composition, which is I feel the main difference between your two examples.
In the overworld section, there's information laid out everywhere (as it should) and the screen feels "full" with correctly layered info (main focal point, side focus, smaller details,etc). By contrast, the battle screen has lots of empty screen space, too much of it wasted. In general composition terms, "breathing empty space" is considered good, but it's all a matter of proportions. Here, I'd say both the characters and the infoboxes are too small in regards to the overall framing in the first screen, and in the second, the buttons hover way too high from the bottom of the screen and tread on the character's visual space, which is again too small/centered and vertical.
Using your first battle screen as an example, I believe you could simply make the characters bigger on screen, and stretch vertically the left/right infoboxes to cover their whole side of the screens, even if just to fill them with decoration motifs/stuff that echoes motifs found in the overworld as well. Or, if you want to go the other route, reduce the size of the infoboxes, but move them around so they don't look like they take control of the surrounding empty free space (I'm thinking of the above/below space next to each box here). And by moving those around, you'll free some space to rearrange your character and battle formation composition, making for some possibly exciting possibilities as well, rather than simply straight vertical lines!
EDIT: in the running tradition of "image better than words", here's something to hopefully better convey what I'm trying to say here.
Yes, the Everquest original level up sound has been part of my placeholder event since pretty much the first day of making the game.
Sometimes I troll around SoundSnap for temp sound effects...it's worth a bit of money, IMO. No idea how professional sound designers do it, really.Yes, the Everquest original level up sound has been part of my placeholder event since pretty much the first day of making the game.
HellBlazer
Member
Not... not in 3D I hope...? The previous version was already really gorgeous and I was really bummed the campaign didn't succeed.
Why the change of engine, if I may ask? It looked like the game was already pretty far along on whatever you were using before.
Jacksinthe
Banned
Niiiice! Glad to see its back in action!For anyone who cares, after the KS we tore down what we had of Red Cobra and build it back up in Unreal 4 while learning the engine. It's coming along and still happening.
Old gif from the trailer.
Thanks! There's a lot i tried with the wall stick and ended up keeping the basic stick found in the NES Ninja Gaiden games since that's where I pull inspiration from alongside Mega Man.
I had a small slip and fall, auto-stick, hold to stick, auto-bound without direction press, etc. A whole bunch of different things that ultimately never wound up feeling right and those nuances wreaked havoc on some design aspects I'd like to pull off which required a straight stick and direct control. I feel NG on NES did it right with its simplicity.
Much in the same way it was a very conscious decision to nix melee combat in favor of ranged - which opened up encounters a LOT more for this type of game. Making sure to limit shooting to only the horizontal axis was another decision to further help with overall design as it becomes way easier to design different types of enemies when imposing limitations on something as innocuous as firing a weapon. There's a threshold that is crossed for "ease of" by letting the player do more of X - so keeping things together with a small set of rules plays an important role to how things get designed on my end.
Still, though, keeping the rules very strict and old school might not pay off, depending on what people are looking for. I'm taking a gamble with these kinds of restrictions so I'm trying to up my game with feedback and player urgency loops. Designing a lot of "above average" enemies that have at least two types of urgency loops, visual feedback from enemies being struck (will probably take this further), destruction permanence, weapon feedback (disk refunds energy to you when caught), etc. Trying to tie the whole thing together. We will see how it goes next year.
akachan ningen
Member
That looks really good. The sounds effects are what really does it for me. The enemies look like pushovers a bit. Is it from early in the game?
jimmythepage
Member
aww thanks man :')
I need to make the weapon feel a tad heavier tho
Thank you so much!
That's pretty amazing, I know that some students of some uni near my place were attempting something like this and had different sets of cameras and stuff but they did not achieve this, thumbs up!
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Hey everyone! So I'm making a "Dynamic Grand Strategy" game; think Europa Universalis 4 except with a lot more procedural generation, and with tactical combat inspired by Advance Wars.
You can read a bit about it here: www.victorsandvanquished.com
Anyways, I have a problem. I'm not intending my game to be super-attractive; in fact, it'll be downright ugly in many cases. I'm hoping that the depth and quality of gameplay will make up for that, like it did with, say, Rimworld.
Given that, and my tiny art budget, I'm reasonably satisfied with how my strategic gameplay graphics are progressing. However, I'm not happy with my tactical battle graphics. I'm very torn on what art style to go with, how to lay out the screen, and how to spice things up in general. I was hoping to get suggestions from you!
Here's an example of the strategic map graphics (the ones I'm reasonably happy with--but feel free to tell me if they're not acceptable):
Now, the graphics I have a problem with (used in combat...also note that the backgrounds are placeholders, but the final versions will probably be similar):
Here are closeups of some sprites. I think they look fine in isolation, but they're not cohesive with the rest of the game:
Or maybe I'm just using them wrong...in combat, they're clustered together (in units) and are pretty small.
I'd greatly appreciate any feedback and suggestions! And be as cruel and blunt as necessary!
I like a lot the horse sprite with the arrow guy, nice animation there also.
The problem I have with your screens right now are that they look really blurry instead of beautiful and crisp. I think that damages the pixelart (compare the gifs to the screens).
I also think the desert background works much better than the grasslands, probably becuase it seems to have more detail.
And of course, like they told you above, the placement of menus, and more in a game like this, is super important.
Thanks
This would be mid-game.. It's hard to gauge difficulty until people other than me play it, but generally people who have played the beta portion found it fairly challenging.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
I can't refuse helping someone representing my favourite game of all time in their username + avatar combination
Given you already know that there's something 'off' with your art direction (as you stated you don't like it and have already identified that it is not the art when isolated) if it's just a question of vocalising and identifying what that problem might be - even if you end up disagreeing with individual suggestions - I'm happy to help you in formalising your own critique of what it is and what it should be.
The journey of a thousand miles starts with taking that first step...
EDIT:
Also wow, Chrome on my PC really doesn't like this page.
This is really cool. I'm not sure I was aware you could use two Kinect's like that. I can only imagine it's way cheaper than most any other motion capture solution available to small developers.Updated our motion capture solution. I added a second Kinect to get full 360 captures...works flawlessly and produces a much better / almost entirely clean animation file right out of the capture software.
superNESjoe
Member
For anyone who cares, after the KS we tore down what we had of Red Cobra and build it back up in Unreal 4 while learning the engine. It's coming along and still happening.
Old gif from the trailer.
I love seeing SHMUP games like this, and it's not often you see ones that are worth playing instead of the dozens of classics that already exist.
The style of this is really appealing to me. I wish you the best of luck!
Updated our motion capture solution. I added a second Kinect to get full 360 captures...works flawlessly and produces a much better / almost entirely clean animation file right out of the capture software.
Holy cow! I had no idea using Kinects as low cost motion capture cameras was a thing! That's freakin brilliant!
My game Nomad Fleet is finally out on Steam, I'm biting my fingernails, someone hold me please!
http://store.steampowered.com/app/371010/
http://store.steampowered.com/app/371010/
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
Pehesse, this is incredibly useful. Thank you.
superNESjoe
Member
Looks great. Best of luck, Congrats on the launch!
Good luck to you!
BomberMouse
Member
That's some amazing feedback.
This thread always makes me want to quit my day job and keep developing one of my many prototypes. Last time I posted anything was over two years ago, right before starting my current job
Congrats on the launch and best of luck!
Thanks, apparently most of the press I reached before launch didn't cared but at least some small youtubers are making videos about the game.
Well, no one said it was going to be easy and I knew in what I was getting into
The penis plant saga has reached its inevitable conclusion.
http://www.gfycat.com/ElasticElectricEsok
http://www.gfycat.com/ElasticElectricEsok
I like it! Had to switch WASD and the arrow keys for me though. Two things: When hanging on a wall I'd like to press up + jump, but maybe that's intentionally not possible? Also, the second platform from the right pushed me to the left when standing on it, the other ones didn't - maybe a bug, or maybe the character just couldn't stand it (sorry).
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
you're keeping this in the game, right?
As long as no one makes me remove it, my penis stays.
The full story is that an NPC tells you about the flower earlier, and he mentions it looks a bit like a penis. It's in the script.
Updated our motion capture solution. I added a second Kinect to get full 360 captures...works flawlessly and produces a much better / almost entirely clean animation file right out of the capture software.
Hey that looks really good! A bit floaty but you can probably fix that by playing around with the frames.
Are you using Kinect 1 or 2? With which software?
Added local multiplayer for up to 4 people to the online build of Infinite Blocker.
Edit: higher-quality video of that gif.
Edit: higher-quality video of that gif.
Jacksinthe
Banned
So I added some trails to my particle explosions. Also, here's a weapon besides the disk if you all haven't seen this one yet. Needs a bit more flash but it's crazy when it gets going:
http://gfycat.com/SkinnyCelebratedElver
Thoughts on the particle trails? Too much? Go back to just cubes?
Thanks dude! I understand arrows to move are a convention - but all of my younger years in the arcade and WASD PC gaming has permanently fused movement to my left hand for muscle memory ha!
What do you mean you'd like to press up and jump? For? You never said what you expect it to do ha! Right now you can press up and special attack to zip upwards without needing to detach first. I currently don't have any plans to add any up+jump mechanics. Wall bounding is intentionally direct so no auto-jumping, dropping, etc.
The platform on the right had a conveyor script attached. I was recently tweaking physics and when I do i give all of my special collision objects a test. Forgot to remove the script XD
http://gfycat.com/SkinnyCelebratedElver
Thoughts on the particle trails? Too much? Go back to just cubes?
Thanks dude! I understand arrows to move are a convention - but all of my younger years in the arcade and WASD PC gaming has permanently fused movement to my left hand for muscle memory ha!
What do you mean you'd like to press up and jump? For? You never said what you expect it to do ha! Right now you can press up and special attack to zip upwards without needing to detach first. I currently don't have any plans to add any up+jump mechanics. Wall bounding is intentionally direct so no auto-jumping, dropping, etc.
The platform on the right had a conveyor script attached. I was recently tweaking physics and when I do i give all of my special collision objects a test. Forgot to remove the script XD
TheHollowNight
Member
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