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GAF Indie Game Development Thread 2: High Res Work for Low Res Pay

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The annoyance of Unity for me comes from its documentation more than anything and for new people coming in, the learning curve can rise at any second.

Other than that, there's some....quirks of the engine that annoy me but again, I do not know what I'm doing, and in capable hands it has a lot of awesome potential.

I just really wish it had a BSP Edi---

Yeah, SabreCSG also is working on an auto-rebuild feature for the next version. Hell, those two videos even basically demonstrate the sort of features that the asset is capable of, and it's just really appealing stuff.

7947323.gif
 
DESIGN THOUGHTS NOW THAT I"M HOME: Ooh nice. I like the core mechanic a lot. Click and hold mouse>maneuver paddles around the circumference of a circle and they move opposite of each other>try to not let asteroid escape as it speeds up after each hit.

Nice! There's a lot to build on here but the core is actually fun so its got potential.

I'd experiment with your tools...how can you make the paddles influence the asteroid more? How does hitting the asteroid reward the player? Are their other things appearing on screen and if so how can they enhance the experience and fun of sticking around?

Maybe try for every so many hits you fill a meter and if you get it so high you can send out a pulse to decelerate the asteroid so you don't lose so quickly, and balance it with the asteroid's acceleration rate increasing by a small factor every time it logs one of these "resets".
Possibly other things with pulses or waves could work...maybe collect powerups that you can use on the board to influence the trajectory or acceleration of the asteroid? I'd maybe look towards peggle power ups for inspiration there. Things like increasing paddle size or sending out magnetic pulses to help catch the asteroid are pretty obvious ones as well. Might try to experiment with Construct 2 pathfinding and see if you can tether a line between both paddles as a tripline to bounce the asteroid off of or more helpfully act as a "track" the asteroid hits and then travels along to the other paddle.

Like I said....LOADS of potential with this concept. Keep it up! You have a great start.

Thanks for the feedback. Not sure I want to change the Orb movement too much, but maybe some magnetic power-up would be cool. So the orb would automatically move towards the paddle for a shot time. Mainly I want to keep it pretty simple and at some point create a more original flashy graphic style.
 
It's easy to make stuff with Unity, which means that it's also easy to make bad unoptimized stuff. And you really have to get into the greasy nasty details to polish the bad stuff, as Unity has a plethora of hidden gotchas everywhere you look - starting with the garbage collection. I really really hope they get IL2CPP to a point where other languages/runtimes become an option; they hinted that pluggable language support might be a long-term goal, but at the moment they are so married to Mono that I'm not holding my breath.

Mobile is an even worse horrorshow if you try to get your game to run in an old iPad or some trash-tier Android device. I probably should look into why our game (which I should post about one of these days, it's just been pretty busy lately) loads the first level so goddamn slowly on an iPad 2 the first time after a fresh install... sigh.

I'd like to seriously try UE4 for future projects, but apparently its 2D support isn't quite there(?) and the last time I dabbled with it, it tried to fan-boost my Macbook Pro into orbit. The editor seemed to run nicely, though.
 
As a sidenote (but still related to Unity), anyone around here well versed in Image Effects/Post Process shenanigans?

I'm trying to make an effect that turns everything on the screen into a pop art image but
a) not sure where to start
b) unsure if I or how I could pool all objects on screen
 
It's easy to make stuff with Unity, which means that it's also easy to make bad unoptimized stuff. And you really have to get into the greasy nasty details to polish the bad stuff, as Unity has a plethora of hidden gotchas everywhere you look - starting with the garbage collection.
...
Mobile is an even worse horrorshow if you try to get your game to run in an old iPad or some trash-tier Android device. I probably should look into why our game (which I should post about one of these days, it's just been pretty busy lately) loads the first level so goddamn slowly on an iPad 2 the first time after a fresh install... sigh.

I've been doing Unity stuff as my "9-5" for a few years, on both console & mobile, and I've worked on some Unity games that have initially performed terribly...but all of them, we've managed to turn around by taking a closer look (mainly using Unity's built-in profiling tools, actually) and optimising the areas which needed the most attention (often batching & unneeded memory allocation). Usually only a 2-3 day task, although I did once spend a bit longer trying to get as close to 0-allocs as possible during gameplay to get a game working smoothly on iPhone4-level devices.

So, yeah- it's doable, but it's definitely a task you've gotta take on. Same is true for any engine or in-house tech.
 

LordRaptor

Member
I've seen a backlash, but I'm not sure it's weird. I've always had the impression even as a developer, and even as someone who's used Unity briefly, that it may not be AS suited as UE3 / UE4 / CryEngine3 / whatever for large games.

The weird part (to me) is that it isn't a developer backlash against issues with their tools (and I think anyone who's worked extensively with any tool could write a laundry list of things that annoy them about it that they just have to live with), its that its a backlash coming from people with little to no understanding of when an engine even is, other than unity is shit trash tier, unreal is GOAT yada yada yada (and as I said is something I've begun to notice before the Firewatch performance threads brought it into sharper focus).

Honestly, my biggest limitation is my lack of experience with coding. I've done a little JavaScript (which I don't see helping me any time soon), I'm taking a class in C++, and the Unity tutorials I've done were in C#, although they kind of just walk you through the coding for the most part.

Apart from what others have said, you could do a lot worse than just taking one of those tutorial projects and turning it into a real ready to release game - music, sound effects, persistent data / saving and loading, faux-achievement unlocks, difficulty select, a menu screen with options, a scrolling credits page, whatever.
Those are all likely to be systems you will probably need to implement in a 'real' game at some point, and learning how to do so on a 'throwaway' project will serve as a pretty good learning tool.

Yea, GM gets a fair pounding too, which is completely unfair. Some very nice games have come out of GM in the past few years. It is definitely one of the simpler engines out there, but I am constantly surprised at what people are able to create with it!

I haven't seen that much GM bashing, but I did see a general misconception that GM was a pretty lightweight hobbyist affair that you couldn't really make a game worth paying money for with.
Hotline Miami pretty much singlehandedly shut that entire preconception down though.

Also curious what you guys think of Steam and other PC distribution platforms as far as piracy concerns. I want my stuff to be as widely available as possible but I hear a lot of concern about lost sales due to piracy. :I

Using Steam for DRM should be sufficient in preventing casual piracy ("copy game I like to give to all my friends" style piracy) and at an acceptable annoyance value for most legitimate customers, imo.

As a sidenote (but still related to Unity), anyone around here well versed in Image Effects/Post Process shenanigans?

I'm trying to make an effect that turns everything on the screen into a pop art image but
a) not sure where to start
b) unsure if I or how I could pool all objects on screen

I believe most Unity image effects are done by rendering the relevant camera view as a 2D texture, and then applying a shader to that texture - if you have a shader that gives you the effect you're looking for on a per-object material basis, it shouldn't be too hard to create a render texture version and make an image effect of it.
 

Noaloha

Member
Thanks for the feedback. I fixed the start up based on your suggestion. Also added a bonus system where you get extra points if you use the same paddle continuously.

Update version: https://www.scirra.com/arcade/action-games/planetpong-5442

Pretty neat! Got a 35.

Quick thing in case you hadn't picked up on it, the game doesn't like both mouse buttons being pressed together or something. So once you've activated the paddles and are holding down left-button, if you then click right-button the paddles appear to lock in position at 10 and 8 o' clock.
 

Vanguard

Member
Trying to implement my inventory/equipment screen and I've never hated the different aspect ratios as much as I do today. Can make the canvas scale to the resolution and other things, but I was trying to do fancy shit with a world space canvas :p, which has no such scaler.

I hate UI.


Tree A, B or C?
I merged some cel shading in the post shader here, basically relatively high fractured lighting with 0.5 blended in. Gives it a kinda marker painted look. Maybe I stick with it.

I'll defo say C. A and B look like they've had bits put on top one of another, which if you're going the artificial look then B? But C looks more natural to me.
 
ugghhhhh this is soooo goood!

The annoyance of Unity for me comes from its documentation more than anything and for new people coming in, the learning curve can rise at any second.

Other than that, there's some....quirks of the engine that annoy me but again, I do not know what I'm doing, and in capable hands it has a lot of awesome potential.

I just really wish it had a BSP Edi---



7947323.gif

Well, SabreCSG seems to be criminally under-appreciated on the asset store, so I might as well spread awareness.
 
Pretty neat! Got a 35.

Quick thing in case you hadn't picked up on it, the game doesn't like both mouse buttons being pressed together or something. So once you've activated the paddles and are holding down left-button, if you then click right-button the paddles appear to lock in position at 10 and 8 o' clock.

Thanks. Have to fix that bug.
 
Unity is going to be the culprit when it's barrier to entry and publishing/selling your game using it is $0. Not saying they need more money - just that when everyone is using your engine and releasing crap, the sheer number of bad titles increases due to user volume.

Unity has it's issues and my knuckles are proof of them but it's far from the piece of trash everyone says it is - by everyone i mean the low-information gamer who acts as an echo chamber for something they read somewhere from some guy who doesn't know :p

This is exactly how I feel about Game Maker: Studio. It's an astonishingly good tool compared to both what it used to be, and what the public seems to think of it. There's a negative stigma behind the toolset and I think it's because the barrier to entry is so low that anyone can use it and release whatever crap they want.

Like GunWorld. :p
 

Ranger X

Member
This is exactly how I feel about Game Maker: Studio. It's an astonishingly good tool compared to both what it used to be, and what the public seems to think of it. There's a negative stigma behind the toolset and I think it's because the barrier to entry is so low that anyone can use it and release whatever crap they want.

Like GunWorld. :p

Count me in that opinion too. GMS is awesome.
 
Hey fellow devs! Been a long time since I posted here, been hard at work on a cell-shaded first person shooter, hoping to start sharing it soon.

Anyways, its Tax Season! Any Canadian developers here who can give advice on declaring game revenue?

We made some decent money though Steam (going to my personal account, not incorporated), as well as through Paypal from a few other sites (Humble store, Greenman gaming, Indie Gala, etc.)

Do I just need to figure out how much money was deposited into my bank account, and declare that as Revenue?

Any tips would be much appreciated!
 

Jumplion

Member
Trying to implement my inventory/equipment screen and I've never hated the different aspect ratios as much as I do today. Can make the canvas scale to the resolution and other things, but I was trying to do fancy shit with a world space canvas :p, which has no such scaler.

I hate UI.

Try playing around with anchor points maybe? That can help the scaling of the UI elements in different resolutions.
 

Vanguard

Member
Try playing around with anchor points maybe? That can help the scaling of the UI elements in different resolutions.

Being a world space canvas it doesn't like the anchors much, it will anchor to it there and then in the editor, but any changes to res doesn't have any effect on it as far as I can see, it will stay as it was.
Did a little experimentation and a screen space camera canvas may work, as it can scale to the resolution and still have image effects and other things apply to it, but it will always face the camera though.

edit: Will do some more research into it tomorrow, can't help but feel like I'm missing something though.
 

Jumplion

Member
Being a world space canvas it doesn't like the anchors much, it will anchor to it there and then in the editor, but any changes to res doesn't have any effect on it as far as I can see, it will stay as it was.
Did a little experimentation and a screen space camera canvas may work, as it can scale to the resolution and still have image effects and other things apply to it, but it will always face the camera though.

edit: Maybe I should redesign it though to be less "flashy".

This might help you: http://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/HOWTO-UIWorldSpace.html
If you have to go through in code you could change the resolution of the canvas dynamically to be proportional to the screen resolution. Have the base resolution and then stretch/shrink it to however bigger/smaller the current resolution is.

Of course, less flashiness is probably the easier way to go. No shame in dialing down the flash.
 
I believe most Unity image effects are done by rendering the relevant camera view as a 2D texture, and then applying a shader to that texture - if you have a shader that gives you the effect you're looking for on a per-object material basis, it shouldn't be too hard to create a render texture version and make an image effect of it.

That's a good starting point at least in my mind, problem is now is actually creating that shader. (I can't wrap my head around shaders, so it's essentially me connecting nodes like a madman)

I came close but I couldn't replace normal shadows with a dot/stroke pattern, so I backed away from that a bit.

I've reached a bit of an impasse when it comes to the character shaders.
Right now I've opted to use an un-lit shader for the time being because that's closer to what I want than most "toon" shaders out there.
The problem I'm hitting now is that I do want light and shadow to affect that character but not bring out the 3D-ness of the character model itself.
I think what I want is some shadow influence but it appearing flat or "baked" onto the character.

I think this ...might be impossible, or at least impossible as to where my shader knowledge is now.
 

DNAbro

Member
Bah spent most of today working on my game and realized at the very end it doesn't look near how I want it to. Decided to scrap a lot of things to make it look better and more cohesive.
 
Posted an original version awhile back but I disliked it so I just touched it up aka actually adding shading so it doesn't look like pure crap.

nqspLnS.gif


Cute or nah?
Ummm...I can't decide if cute, or a thing of nightmares. It might be the eyes mixed with that smile that haunts me...I imagine waking up in the dark, that thing popping up and down by me. Watching.
 

chris-013

Member
Being a world space canvas it doesn't like the anchors much, it will anchor to it there and then in the editor, but any changes to res doesn't have any effect on it as far as I can see, it will stay as it was.
Did a little experimentation and a screen space camera canvas may work, as it can scale to the resolution and still have image effects and other things apply to it, but it will always face the camera though.

edit: Will do some more research into it tomorrow, can't help but feel like I'm missing something though.

I think I did something similar with an floating text script. When you use a world space canvas you still have the canvas scaler script and the "Dynamic Pixels Per Unit". I made a script to calculate the new "Dynamic Pixels Per Unit" each time a screen resize event occurs.

Code:
using UnityEngine;
using UnityEngine.UI;
using System.Collections;

public class CanvasScaling : MonoBehaviour {

	private CanvasScaler canvasScaler;
	private float lastPPU;

	void Awake () {
		canvasScaler = GetComponent<CanvasScaler>();
	}

	void LateUpdate() {
		if (Game.Instance.currentPPU != lastPPU) {
                        CalculateDynamicPixelsPerUnit();
		}
	}

        protected void CalculateDynamicPixelsPerUnit() {
                var dPPU = Game.Instance.currentPPU / Game.Instance.nativePPU * Game.Instance.zoom;
                canvasScaler.dynamicPixelsPerUnit = dPPU < 1 ? 1 : dPPU;
                lastPPU = Game.Instance.currentPPU;
                Debug.Log(gameObject.name + " scaler = " + canvasScaler.dynamicPixelsPerUnit);
        }
}

PS : Never let the Dynamic Pixels Per Unit below 1 or Unity will crash/hangs in the editor (and maybe in game too...) !
 

Blizzard

Banned
One thing I've learned from even doing placeholder people shapes is that it is easy to create nightmare-inducing monstrosities.

Does anyone have advice about guides, exercises, or starting points if I want to make torso-and-head sprite art, Phoenix Wright style? I want to keep the shading simple.
 

Vanguard

Member
This might help you: http://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/HOWTO-UIWorldSpace.html
If you have to go through in code you could change the resolution of the canvas dynamically to be proportional to the screen resolution. Have the base resolution and then stretch/shrink it to however bigger/smaller the current resolution is.

Of course, less flashiness is probably the easier way to go. No shame in dialing down the flash.

Less flash is easier, but damn if I want it :p


I think I did something similar with an floating text script. When you use a world space canvas you still have the canvas scaler script and the "Dynamic Pixels Per Unit". I made a script to calculate the new "Dynamic Pixels Per Unit" each time a screen resize event occurs.

PS : Never let the Dynamic Pixels Per Unit below 1 or Unity will crash/hangs in the editor (and maybe in game too...) !

Cheers will give this a look, and I think that error got fixed fairly recently as I remember encountering it before and watching the memory usage fly up, but doesn't seem to happen now. 5.3.2 or one of its patches I think?
 

asa

Member
Hmm, should we have #screenshotsaturday thread? Might be a nice way to get some eyes on the games made by Neogaf members. Just A thought :)

Anyways, here's our #screenshotsaturday: City ruin style test for upcoming Power Hover content update:
giphy.gif


Human cities are ghastly places in PH :)
 

Pehesse

Member
Hmm, should we have #screenshotsaturday thread? Might be a nice way to get some eyes on the games made by Neogaf members. Just A thought :)

Anyways, here's our #screenshotsaturday: City ruin style test for upcoming Power Hover content update:
giphy.gif


Human cities are ghastly places in PH :)

We have several, actually, including one designed to showcase GAF made games!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=853735&page=8&highlight=screenshot+saturday

One thing I've learned from even doing placeholder people shapes is that it is easy to create nightmare-inducing monstrosities.

Does anyone have advice about guides, exercises, or starting points if I want to make torso-and-head sprite art, Phoenix Wright style? I want to keep the shading simple.

Replied to your PM, hope it can help!

For others wondering the same thing, I'll just plug my earlier post about my process for cel-shading coloring: https://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=42222.msg1170600#msg1170600 (and an above one covering a little about drawing too, though more animation related)
Lots more to be said on the topic, especially about the post aspect, but just as a base for coloring questions, hoping this can provide some measure of assistance as well?
 

DNAbro

Member
Ummm...I can't decide if cute, or a thing of nightmares. It might be the eyes mixed with that smile that haunts me...I imagine waking up in the dark, that thing popping up and down by me. Watching.

good. Cause it is watching you. Waiting.

Kind of literally what I'm going for.

Also realizing I should have done something much more mechanic heavy for a first project with really simple art. For this if it doesn't look right, it won't be good. It's like Neko Atsume without the cute art, it would be pointless. This is kind of a "duh" thing but already committed to it. Though I am learning a lot from it.
 
Stage Presence will be on Steam in just over a month so I made a bunch of gifs to celebrate!

In-game Twitch chat support so streamers can communicate with their viewers when playing in VR!
khcam2t.gif


Pretty pleased with the rain clouds that roll in when the player starts doing badly
1T0HrBa.gif


Then there's the timeless classic of the player getting hit in the face by a bottle of warm piss while someone tries to shine a laser in their eyes
IGSytI7.gif
 
Well that looks fantastic. Looks like you're missing people sat on other's shoulders so the people behind can't see though! Maybe in a future patch. :p

Thanks! The multiplayer mode puts you in the crowd but none of the people in front of your are annoyingly tall. Unlike every gig I've ever been at. It's the eternal dilemma of design vs. reality ;)
 

shaowebb

Member
Oy...one of those mornings where you're doing UV work and you realize you got seams stitched that shouldn't be and you end up editting a bunch of stuff to repair your UV and pass the checkerboard test.

Currently testing different patterns for a training stage as I keep doin UV's on that one stage I brought up with the nice building. After this I'll be redoing the UV's and maps on the first character to see if I can't get him able to dump in and out of Unity. Those go well I'm just gonna start animating his moveset finally and begin tuning up the engine around them. Moving fast now. Spent a long time putting a good foundation of assets and design work into this. Now it just feels like its time to implement and tune things.


Thanks for the feedback. Not sure I want to change the Orb movement too much, but maybe some magnetic power-up would be cool. So the orb would automatically move towards the paddle for a shot time. Mainly I want to keep it pretty simple and at some point create a more original flashy graphic style.

No problem. Glad to pitch in thoughts whenever I can. Like I said you have a strong core so there are a huge number of directions and options for you to build upon what you got. Stick to what you think feels best, try as many things as you can and see where this one takes itself. Its a pretty fun concept.
 
GunWorld 2 is going to be finished in less than two weeks, finalizing some of the backgrounds and art assets now to polish up the visuals. If things go well in cert, it should launch exclusively on Xbox One in early spring.

CbHXl_WW0AEp_7X.jpg:large
 

Blizzard

Banned
Replied to your PM, hope it can help!

For others wondering the same thing, I'll just plug my earlier post about my process for cel-shading coloring: https://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=42222.msg1170600#msg1170600 (and an above one covering a little about drawing too, though more animation related)
Lots more to be said on the topic, especially about the post aspect, but just as a base for coloring questions, hoping this can provide some measure of assistance as well?
Thanks, I think I already bookmarked one of your earlier posts.

Another poster (mstudios or something similar?) also had a neat cel-shaded style I want to learn. Thankfully I don't have to worry as much about full-body animation, just learning background and working on torso/headshots.
 

Jumplion

Member
Finally got around to participate in #screenshotsaturday. Still doesn't look like much, but it's a thing all the same.

Z4naHZ1.jpg


I'm fairly proud of how far it's come along. Still need to play around with the colors and visual style, but it's coming together. It definitely looks better than what it did five months ago.
 

PirateHearts

Neo Member
For as long as I've been working on this game, I've been wanting to do the Ocarina-of-Time-style boss introductions where it shows the boss's "class" alongside its name (like "Parasitic Armored Arachnid" / "Gohma"). I finally took a stab at it today, along with a slow motion effect. Haven't decided yet whether I should suppress player movement during this sequence. On the one hand, it's kind of fun when you know you're moving around offscreen in slow motion, but I don't want to risk letting the player take damage or die when they can't see what's happening.

JZh5vd4.gif
 

SystemBug

Member
Stage Presence will be on Steam in just over a month so I made a bunch of gifs to celebrate!

In-game Twitch chat support so streamers can communicate with their viewers when playing in VR!
khcam2t.gif


Pretty pleased with the rain clouds that roll in when the player starts doing badly
1T0HrBa.gif


Then there's the timeless classic of the player getting hit in the face by a bottle of warm piss while someone tries to shine a laser in their eyes
IGSytI7.gif

thats amazing
 

Misha

Banned
Do any 3d modeling programs have strong touch/tablet support, preferably being able to use it without a mouse or keyboard?

Also are any of them cheap
 
For as long as I've been working on this game, I've been wanting to do the Ocarina-of-Time-style boss introductions where it shows the boss's "class" alongside its name (like "Parasitic Armored Arachnid" / "Gohma"). I finally took a stab at it today, along with a slow motion effect. Haven't decided yet whether I should suppress player movement during this sequence. On the one hand, it's kind of fun when you know you're moving around offscreen in slow motion, but I don't want to risk letting the player take damage or die when they can't see what's happening.

JZh5vd4.gif
Give the bosses a proper intro that don't use attacks or anything that can hurt the player. I also am a fan of locking the player out during these moments to prevent any funny business.

Other than that - I like the way this looks!
 
For as long as I've been working on this game, I've been wanting to do the Ocarina-of-Time-style boss introductions where it shows the boss's "class" alongside its name (like "Parasitic Armored Arachnid" / "Gohma"). I finally took a stab at it today, along with a slow motion effect. Haven't decided yet whether I should suppress player movement during this sequence. On the one hand, it's kind of fun when you know you're moving around offscreen in slow motion, but I don't want to risk letting the player take damage or die when they can't see what's happening.

JZh5vd4.gif

I went with not only locking the players out, but disabling boss behavior as well.

I have to say buddy, seeing your game makes me feel like I made the wrong choice, and I should have gone with my gut and did a full-on commitment to the NES aesthetic as opposed to just NES-inspired. You have nailed it, and inspired me to do it full-on next time.
 

Lautaro

Member
Ok, I played a good bit with my roguelite prototype but now I need to finish Nomad Fleet. I'm working in adding some Steam achievements at the moment:

IwKgwox.png
 

PirateHearts

Neo Member
Give the bosses a proper intro that don't use attacks or anything that can hurt the player. I also am a fan of locking the player out during these moments to prevent any funny business.

Other than that - I like the way this looks!

I went with not only locking the players out, but disabling boss behavior as well.

I have to say buddy, seeing your game makes me feel like I made the wrong choice, and I should have gone with my gut and did a full-on commitment to the NES aesthetic as opposed to just NES-inspired. You have nailed it, and inspired me to do it full-on next time.

Thanks! That's probably what I'll end up doing: lock the player's input during these sequences and have the boss either play a unique intro animation (ick, more content to make) or just make sure their first behavior isn't an attack so they'll just move/jump/do something that looks kind of like making an entrance.
 

Ranger X

Member
Very late Saturday screenshot!
Finished some first deco phase on the first zone for my game.


Screen13_zpschss5uks.png~original



By the way, how do you guys put screenshots in here being small and then you click on it to make them fullsize??


.
 
Stage Presence will be on Steam in just over a month so I made a bunch of gifs to celebrate!

In-game Twitch chat support so streamers can communicate with their viewers when playing in VR!
khcam2t.gif


Pretty pleased with the rain clouds that roll in when the player starts doing badly
1T0HrBa.gif


Then there's the timeless classic of the player getting hit in the face by a bottle of warm piss while someone tries to shine a laser in their eyes
IGSytI7.gif

All of this just made my night.
 
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